Tongue Ties

[Boris]

I think it was one of my north Texas buds that mentioned how this equipment change will/can/may help a horse. Since I can't even remember who said it, ya think I can remember what they said? Urrrr, NO. A little help please. Also, is there a style of running, if any, that it seem to benefit more?

Thanks

And I was in Conroe last weekend, not Nevada. Nor sure where the rest of my "family" was though.

[karlskorner]

Boris;

A tongue tie/band/strap ties the horses tongue down to prevent him/her from swollowing it during the course of a race or workout.

Dumb animals, with a brain the size of a plum, have been known to swollow their tongues while racing, which makes for one unhappy horse. Doesn't really make a difference what type of race it is, a swollower is a swollower

Karl

[anotherdave]

Jim Selvidge talked about tongue ties a lot 20+ years ago in the book "Hold Your Horses". On the horsestalk site which I think he and Trillis Parker are associated with there is a statement that

"Did you know that a tongue-tie vs no tongue-tie means two to three fifths faster time in all Thoroughbreds, and up to two full seconds at route distances with cheap horses? Are you sure you know how to spot a tongue-tie?"

If that is really true, I better start looking at them harder during post parade!

http://www.horsestalk.com/index.htm

AD

[karlskorner]

Anotherdave:

I would serioulsy doubt it a "tie" would improve a horses time, imagine if you would, if some one took a clothes pin and tacked together your tongue and lower lip and asked you to run 1/2 mile. It's has to be uncomfortable and unnatural to the horse, but it sure beats the trainer or vet sticking his arm down a throat and pulling back the tongue.

Karl

[smf]

Boris,

Tongue straps definitely help horses that need them. One of the few horsemen I "know" (exchange mail) said the difference was like removing a sock from one's mouth while running.

From what I've seen w/ claimed runners, tongue straps have a bigger effect on early speed types. I don't have any studies or such to wow anybody with, just taping post parades and noting changes on claims.

[so.cal.fan]

I remember when James Selvidge and Trillis Parker were touting tongue ties, AD.
I think they suspected trainers putting "something" on the tongue ties. They were talking about horses in, I believe Washington and Northern California. I don't know about up there, but I do know about down here in Southern Calif.
The man who puts out the tongue ties that most of the trainers use in the paddock is a relative of mine. They come for a sterile box of tongue ties. I don't buy into the Selvidge/Parker theory.
I remember one incident at Hollywood Park. Bobby Frankel had a horse in the paddock, he put a tongue tie on him, and the horse got very agitated, it really didn't like that tongue tie, so Frankel, got a hold of the horse, while he was walking out throught the tunnel onto the track and ripped it off him. The horse settled down and WON the race.

[smf]

Boris,

Get your hands on the jan/ feb 2002 issue of HP Magazine if the topic is still of interest to you (not sure it w/b, hehe). Has interviews w/ some trainers as to why they use tongue ties.

"Contessa (gary) estimates that the use of a tongue tie will result in dramatic improvement in 5% of the horses that use them......."

Photos in the article show (a) tongue tie board, (b) trainer applying a tie to horse (c) what a tie looks like on a horse after it's put on.

[FortuneHunter]

After reading this thread today, I tried a tongue tie on my secretary and it improved performance by 25%.

Can't wait to try it on the wife when she gets home.

FH

P.S. Gee, I miss HPU

[Dr.Larry]

Last year I noticed (while watching simulcasts) that
most winners were having tongue ties removed
by the groom as they were being walked to the
winners circle. Thought I had an angle.

Went to Belmont and sadly learned that Most of the
horses had tongue ties.

[Boris]

Thanks for the info folks.

FH, I miss it too. Have to admit, that is the funniest post you have ever made right there, and Lord knows you have tried to be funny ALOT. I think there may be hope for you after all. Send my regards to The Great One. (Quick aside for the ITM fans out there. Classic thread in play over there today. Poster says something like "The sheets did bad at Belmont today." In his best customer service voice, ITM responds with "The sheets did bad, or you did bad?" Not exact quotes, but the buzzard still puts a smile on my face.)

PA, since I haven't said thank you in a long time, "Thank You!"

Good Luck

[Observer]

Originally posted by FortuneHunter
Can't wait to try it on the wife when she gets home.

Gee, sometimes I wonder why guys like this bother getting/staying married! ;)

Anyway, on the tongue-tie issue involving their use on horses .. they also prevent horses from getting their tongues over the bit, which would make it very difficult to maneuver them around the racetrack and very difficult to regulate their pace.

As for horses being dumb ... as someone who has worked closely with horses, I will once again say they are not dumb, they are misunderstood. It's dumb for a horse to swallow its tongue when we humans shove a metal bit into their months, and expect them to accept it? Just because horses are conveniently missing teeth where the bit goes doesn't mean a bit belongs there, or that they are dumb for not being able to properly accept it in each and every case.

[bdhsheets]

Tongue ties are a powerful equipment change that don't have to be reported here in the USA. One can dirty a horses form and return the tie and cash a big ticket. I suspect that these sudden form reversals are more prevelant at smaller tracks/circuits. You would have to be at the track every day and make notes of all the horses and keep them on file.

In Great Britain, they list "Todays tongue ties". If it were no big deal they wouldn't demand them being reported. Oh well.

'sheets

[FortuneHunter]

It is amazing to me that "nasal strips" come out a few years ago and almost immediately the industry database (Equibase) has a code for "nasal strips".

However, tongue ties, which have been around forever are not reported.

It must be that the industry doesn't want to do it, because it is easy enough to do it if they wanted too. Maybe the backside doesn't want to lose thier edge.

Update on the "tongue tie at home", as soon as I got the tongue tie on, I hopped aboard and whispered "that's the way my secretary likes it" and I got bucked off and the crap kicked out of me!

I will count the tongue ties in the Derby and report back.

$10 says less than half have a TT.

[Observer]

Boris,

Didn't think about this earlier, but if you find the use of tongue ties interesting, you might also want to consider the type of noseband on the horse's bridle. Flash nosebands and Figure-eight nosebands are used to keep the jaw closed on the horse, making it more difficult for the horse to raise the tongue, and making the horse more easily controlled.

I believe most U.S. horses are fitted with tongue ties, even the tops in the game .. like Cigar, Point Given, Skip Away, Tiznow, etc. I'm just guessing here, but maybe because they are so common, most don't feel it necessary to keep track of this. (Not saying I agree with that, though.)

[swetyejohn]

I learned paddock handicapping by attending the races at NYRA almost every Saturday for a year. I saw a lot of tongue ties.

We bought a horse at Mountaineer and I tried to persuade our trainer to use them. She wouldn't. Our "former" trainer only has a 4% hit rate. Maybe she could learn a thing or two from the big time.

I've seen horses win with them and without them. I can't say they improve the horse. Since so many horses win with them I can't say they hurt them, either.

When we get our next horse, I will insist that they are used unless it can proved they don't work on our horse.