CHRB withdraws complaints

[karlskorner]

Everybody is off the hook, except the poor van driver.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=27829

Did anybody expect anything different ?

[JustMissed]

"Ahern said there was no evidence Canani was responsible for the removal of the filly or that he had knowledge of the plan. In addition, Ahern said he consulted three veterinarians who had examined Sweet Catomine prior to the race, and "they all said the horse was ready to run. If you can't trust the vets, who can you trust?"

According to Ahern, Wygod's farm manager, Russell Drake, made the decision to remove the filly from track grounds, but Kerkhoff decided to to mislead gate security about the horse's identity. Drake wasn't named in the complaint."

Seems odd that the farm manager would have been the one to order vet treatment and not the TRAINER and that the trainer wouldn't know anything about that!!!

Guess the farm manager's daily check sheet looks something like this:

Order hay

Order feed

Order removal of horse manure

Order vet treatment for Kentucky Derby contenders :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh well, after all it is California.

JM

[karlskorner]

It's TRADITION, read Suff"s posting on ESPN by Bob Finley, what happens in the backstretch, stays in the backstretch.

[highnote]

I may be wrong, but I think this forum on PA, others forums and the internet in general, have all helped to improve the sport of racing for the fans.

Information about problems within the industry can be disseminated quickly to a large number of people. The issues can be discussed and then action can be taken en masse when necessary.

I'm hopeful that the lawsuit against Wygod, Santa Anita, Canani, etc., will further help to improve the sport. It's up to all us fans to keep putting the pressure on the people who run the sport to make sure the industry insiders improve the sport for everyone's benefit.

Along a similar vein -- there is no reason why throat surgery on a runner can not be made public. I believe the wagering public has a right to know -- despite what trainer Cerin thinks.

-----

For what it's worth -- It is no surprise that Wygod was cleared. If prosecutors could not prove O.J. committed murder, what chance did the CHRB have of proving Wygod did anything detrimental to racing?

[ratpack]

Like they said on Mike Welman show a few weeks ago and I am parparasings.

If Canani did not know the horse was going to that clinic for treatment, I wonder what he thought when he arrivied at the barn that morning at what 5am at found his stall empty. if anyone thinks Canani did not know, I have some swamp land I would like to sell them.

Looks like the CHRB is a ripe customer

[so.cal.fan]

I agree, Chris. Julio is a very tough man......hard to believe any of his help would do something behind his back, not even a little thing.
I believe an unfortunate decision was made by either/or trainer and owner and it turns out a disasterous error.
I have to wonder if SC would have WON the race, if this would have been disclosed as it was????? Doubt it.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Here in Ca, politicians make the law and know how to use the loopholes to favor who they want.
What kind of a license does a farm manger hold that he could lose?
I told you Cannani would skate!
Now let's see if I am right that the driver will get fined but not lose his license, then go to work for Wygod.

[delayjf]

And this is one reason I hope the lawsuit goes forward. Right now there is no real consequence to improper and illegal behavior. If The tracks officials are not going to do anything when trainers are caught cheating or act in a manner that is detrimental to racing, then let's kick it up a notch.

[karlskorner]

As people who wager on the outcome of a horse race, just how much infomration are we entitled to ? Be specific, as I have my own opinions.
We are " outsiders " to the business of racing horses. I doubt any other business offers as much " information " to the public as the racing industry. Compare the racing industry to the stock market, who offers more information ?

[ratpack]

I have already stated in other threads that any injury or surgery that requires a 45+ days layoff should be reported and made public record.

I realize that the SC incident would not have fallen into this catagory but if they had followed existing rules and did not lie that information would have come out on its own.

[karlskorner]

Minor injury or major injury, minor surgey or major surgery. Where do you draw the line ? A horse made a misstep and caused a minor swelling, trainer decides to rest the horse for 45 days, are we entitled to this information ?

[ratpack]

Minor injury or major injury, minor surgey or major surgery. Where do you draw the line ? A horse made a misstep and caused a minor swelling, trainer decides to rest the horse for 45 days, are we entitled to this information ?

Well you do have to draw the line someplace. Then you look at the record you see 45 days without a workout and check the trainers record, that is called handicapping

[highnote]

Minor injury or major injury, minor surgey or major surgery. Where do you draw the line ? A horse made a misstep and caused a minor swelling, trainer decides to rest the horse for 45 days, are we entitled to this information ?

Yes. We're entitled to that information. I'm not saying it should be published in big bold letters like the Beyer figure. But if a journalist or interviewer asks the trainer what happened to his horse, I would expect that the trainer would tell the truth. I would not expect that the trainer tell the journalist the truth and at the same time ask the journalist not to publish the truth until after the race.

If no one asks the trainer, then I don't expect the trainer to make it public -- he's got enough things to do besides make sure every little detail about his horses are known. But if I ask a trainer which horses have had throat surgery I would expect an honest answer -- even if he says, "Hell. I can't remember all the horses in my barn who have had throat surgery. Some of them may have had throat surgery before I got them."

If I ask him if he has recently had throat surgery performed on horses in his barn, then I would expect him to know the answer -- unless of course every horse in his barn gets surgery as a matter of course. In which case, he should say that.

All we players are asking for is a little honesty and integrity. I realize we're dealing with a bunch of horse traders who are probably as bad or worse than used car salesmen -- but that's why we have watchdog organizations and committees.

The only recourse we players have is to keep on discussing this in the forums. The people who look bad are those people who tried to deceive us and those people who did not do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules.

In anyone's opinion, who is responsible for more money being taken from horseplayers illicitly -- owners and trainers deceiving the public or the fix-6 perpetrators?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Yes. We're entitled to that information. I'm not saying it should be published in big bold letters like the Beyer figure. But if a journalist or interviewer asks the trainer what happened to his horse, I would expect that the trainer would tell the truth. I would not expect that the trainer tell the journalist the truth and at the same time ask the journalist not to publish the truth until after the race.

If no one asks the trainer, then I don't expect the trainer to make it public -- he's got enough things to do besides make sure every little detail about his horses are known. But if I ask a trainer which horses have had throat surgery I would expect an honest answer -- even if he says, "Hell. I can't remember all the horses in my barn who have had throat surgery. Some of them may have had throat surgery before I got them."

If I ask him if he has recently had throat surgery performed on horses in his barn, then I would expect him to know the answer -- unless of course every horse in his barn gets surgery as a matter of course. In which case, he should say that.

All we players are asking for is a little honesty and integrity. I realize we're dealing with a bunch of horse traders who are probably as bad or worse than used car salesmen -- but that's why we have watchdog organizations and committees.

The only recourse we players have is to keep on discussing this in the forums. The people who look bad are those people who tried to deceive us and those people who did not do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules.

In anyone's opinion, who is responsible for more money being taken from horseplayers illicitly -- owners and trainers deceiving the public or the fix-6 perpetrators?


Ok I can relate to your post!
Lets put it another way..If you were told about everything that happens in a horses life you may be afraid to bet on him whether he was in the right spot or not,There is a Vets list in the racing secretaries office for your infomation if your wondering about a certain horse.If you had "all" this information there wouldnt be a claiming game.When a trainer can get a horse to the races after many setbacks with his horse,Thats why he is the trainer,Training secrets have been around since the begining of horseracing,Also a horse personal records are just that..Just like yours would be.

[karlskorner]

Most posters seem to have either a bought or home built computer program for horse racing, the problem seems to be that it's working, but not good enough, what it needs is " more information "

[karlskorner]

You lost me, you originally said that we should be told of a 45 day layoff becuase of an injury or surgery than you state " Then you look at the record to see 45 days without a workout ( most tracks won't let the horse race if he hasn't had a workout in 45 days ) and check the trainers record ( what do you check, the trainer decided the horse needed a rest, nobody has trainer records as to why he gave the horse a rest ) You call that handicapping, I call it voodoo magic.

[ratpack]

You lost me, you originally said that we should be told of a 45 day layoff becuase of an injury or surgery than you state " Then you look at the record to see 45 days without a workout ( most tracks won't let the horse race if he hasn't had a workout in 45 days ) and check the trainers record ( what do you check, the trainer decided the horse needed a rest, nobody has trainer records as to why he gave the horse a rest ) You call that handicapping, I call it voodoo magic.


OK so then check the work pattern if the horse has 1 slow work or 3 nice works then make a betting decidion

My point on was on surgery or injury that would require a layoff of activity of 45 or more days that should be reported before the horse is entered.

[rrbauer]

Here in Ca, politicians make the law and know how to use the loopholes to favor who they want.
What kind of a license does a farm manger hold that he could lose?
I told you Cannani would skate!
Now let's see if I am right that the driver will get fined but not lose his license, then go to work for Wygod.

I heard the dude was seen on Rodeo Drive trying on a chauffeur's outfit....

[karlskorner]

I don't want to drag this out, but I still call it voodoo magic. Yours - " OK so than check the work pattern, if the horse has 1 slow work or 3 nice works then make a betting decision " Workouts are the best kept secrets of any trainer, who knows what he told the exercise rider, or that he brought the horse to the track before the clockers arrived or that he worked the horse at a nearby farm. Your point is that surgery or injury that requires a 45 day layoff should be reported. Would the Trainer or Vet allow the horse to run if he wasn't fit ? I have seen horses vanned off the track and come back in 30 days and win their next out. It's all part of the mystery. Neither Art or Science, but a Craft.

[ratpack]

Point taken, I don't think anything is going to be done anyway.

[highnote]

Point taken, I don't think anything is going to be done anyway.

It will be interesting if anything comes of the lawsuit filed against Wygod, et al. If nothing else, maybe the powers that be will clarify the rules.

[karlskorner]

Naming the wrong horse. Happens any given day at any given track. An Allowance horse is led through the w/o gap and identified as an 8K claimer, does 4 panels in 47.3, the clockers mark the bullet w/o for the 8k claimer. The Allowance horse goes on to win his next out at a good mutual, meanwhile the mutuals for the next out on the 8K claimer are knocked down by the masses because of the bullet w/o, he finishes up the track.

[highnote]

Naming the wrong horse. Happens any given day at any given track. An Allowance horse is led through the w/o gap and identified as an 8K claimer, does 4 panels in 47.3, the clockers mark the bullet w/o for the 8k claimer. The Allowance horse goes on to win his next out at a good mutual, meanwhile the mutuals for the next out on the 8K claimer are knocked down by the masses because of the bullet w/o, he finishes up the track.


Good point. I can see how that could happen. I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.

[CryingForTheHorses]

It will be interesting if anything comes of the lawsuit filed against Wygod, et al. If nothing else, maybe the powers that be will clarify the rules.

Clarify the rules???

[highnote]

Clarify the rules???

I can't remember where I read it, but someone made the point that the stewards and other officials need clearer guidelines for these types of situations so that they can make better decisions. Maybe my use of "clarifying the rules" was the wrong choice of words? I'll see if I can find that other post. I think it might have been the attorney who heads the U. of Albany racing program.

js

Hey, I found it:

6. Bottom Line -Whatever the results of the Wygod case, horse racing needs to stop
dealing with these “trainer, owner, jockey comment” cases on an ad hoc basis. There has
to be a clear code of conduct as to what trainers and owners are allowed to say about their
horses. In the absence of a clear code, racing commissions can seriously look like a
bunch of clowns – and that is surely detrimental to the best interests of horse racing.

[DJofSD]

In the absence of a clear code, racing commissions can seriously look like a
bunch of clowns – and that is surely detrimental to the best interests of horse racing.

Au contraire: they already are a bunch of clowns.

What exactly is the best interest of horse racing? Maintaining a status quo?

DJofSD

[kenwoodallpromos]

"No licensee or employee of a racing association or its concessionaires shall knowingly or designedly by false representation attempt to, or persuade, procure, or cause another personto wager on a horse in a race to be run in this State or elsewhere."
The rule they tried to get Wygod, actions detrimental to racing, does not apply; the rule they tried to get Cananni under, responsible for horse's condition, applies only to illegal use of drugs.
The rule they are trying to get the driver under, misidentification, applies to workouts and races.
I do not think the CHRB knows their own rules! :bang:
__________
I do not believe the above rule applies to public handicappers or columnists!LOL! :liar:

[CryingForTheHorses]

I can't remember where I read it, but someone made the point that the stewards and other officials need clearer guidelines for these types of situations so that they can make better decisions. Maybe my use of "clarifying the rules" was the wrong choice of words? I'll see if I can find that other post. I think it might have been the attorney who heads the U. of Albany racing program.

js

Hey, I found it:

The biggest think the racing world needs is honest horsman,Be it a owner or trainer, These people need to have their horses fit and ready for whatever race they enter to run.If a horse has issues then he should stay in the barn untill the issues are resolved. Then the horse can go out and give the bettors 100%.As for trainers chirping about their steeds it will go on till the end of time.

[karlskorner]

FIT AND READY. Tom, when that new 2 year old filly you have is " fit and ready " are you going to make a general announcement or just tell a few. I will be in the paddock, a simple wink and/or a rub along side the nose is all I need, I just hope I don't get it from another trainer.

[CryingForTheHorses]

FIT AND READY. Tom, when that new 2 year old filly you have is " fit and ready " are you going to make a general announcement or just tell a few. I will be in the paddock, a simple wink and/or a rub along side the nose is all I need, I just hope I don't get it from another trainer.

Seeing any of my horses in a race Karl, You shouldnt need the nod..I only run when it counts..I always try and my horse is ready.Im not a race filler.That "New" 2yo filly, I have had her since she was a weanling.

[karlskorner]

You will become a "race filler" when Bob Umphrey calls and says he needs to fill an upcoming race.

[CryingForTheHorses]

You will become a "race filler" when Bob Umphrey calls and says he needs to fill an upcoming race.

LMAO Karl..Maybe if he would give me stalls then I may help him, AS long as I pay for my own stall and my workmans comp I am loyal to my horses, NOT to someone who wont give me the time of day.HE had lots to say when I sold Air Cool who was 10 and made almost 800k, I am a racing secretaries dream as I love to run, BUT only in "my' spots.IF he writes the races and Im ready Ill run.

[how cliche]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this yet, but I wouldn't feel so sorry for the van driver. My first reaction to the news of this story is that Wygod most likely paid him off with a hefty dose of hush money so he could get off the hook.