Trainers, drugs and breeding

[andicap]

I don't want to name names here, but ask a general question about whether anyone has ever investigated a link into whether horses in the care of certain trainers were more or less successful in the breeding shed than others.
What made me think of that was a former horseplaying acquaintince of mine who said the offspring of horses from a certain well-known trainer never did well breeding wise because of all the drugs pumped into him.

Drugs aside, I've never seen a study on whether certain trainers did better than others with their offspring.

[rrbauer]

I guess you're referring to stallions?

[andicap]

Yes. But only there's much more data than with mares. Both would be relevant.

[ranchwest]

I would think one could identify a lot of trainers whose horses ran above their breeding for a variety of reasons, including the fact that they're good trainers.

[andicap]

Ranchwest,
I'm looking at it from the other way. How have Lukas trained horses done in the breeding shed? Baffert? Etc.

[cj]

Just off the top of my head, it seems Lukas horses have done pretty well. I don't think any of Baffert's good ones have been retired long enough to have offspring of racing age.

Lukas horses currently successful sires:
Gulch, Harlan, Salt Lake, Tabasco Cat, Editor's Note, Grindstone, Hennessy, Thunder Gulch.

I'm sure I missed a few, but a pretty impressive list nonetheless.

CJ

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by andicap
Ranchwest,
I'm looking at it from the other way. How have Lukas trained horses done in the breeding shed? Baffert? Etc.

I understand, but what would this correlation prove? Are you looking for an early indicator of a good sire?

[andicap]

No, I'm just curious. Wonder if there are any patterns.

[Observer]

I think a guy like Lukas, when he is at the sales representing owners eager and willing to shell out millions upon millions in search of their racing dreams, that they are looking for horses with a potential to be potent in the breeding shed when racing days are over. To not take this into consideration when spending such money would be foolish.

Some other thoughts .. sometimes horses take a while to come around too. Storm Cat had taken several years to really build momentum .. and now he's commanding a huge sum .. I believe $500,000 .. and when have we even seen Storm Cat youngsters filling the gate at the Kentucky Derby??

On a note regarding mares in the breeding shed .. there seems to be a common bond between extraordinary fillies having problems producing, as in Genuine Risk, Winning Colors and Meadow Star. It seems the tougher, more strenuous the campaign, the less likely a mare is to be a good producer. Of course, there have been some exceptions .. as there are in every case of any topic. Serena's Song has produced 2 runners .. and both are stakes winners .. Serena's Tune and Sophisticat. Personal Ensign has produced some nice horses, but she of course only had 13 starts .. though went undefeated.

Interesting topic, andicap! I have to admit, though, I'm really curious which trainer(s) you might be suspicious of! ;)

[andicap]

Yeah, like I want a libel suit slapped on me!

[Observer]

Originally posted by andicap
Yeah, like I want a libel suit slapped on me!

I didn't ask you to name names, I simply admitted I was curious as to whom you and this aquaintance might be focusing on.

[andicap]

Observer,
If I tell you whom we are focusing on, that is the same as naming names.


Statistics on the other hand are neutral. As are observations that Wayne Lukas' horses do well in the breeding shed with the examples that were posted here.
How about some other high profile trainers with lots of stakes horses? How well do their horses do in the breeding shed? I asked about Baffert. What about the others? Shug? Mott? Drysdale? Mandella? Bond? I'm blanking on the Midwestern ones. McPeek.

[Observer]

Andicap,

You are completely misunderstanding me. I don't know what other way to say it, but I'll try again ... all I was doing was admitting to being curious .. I was not asking you who you were "focusing on" and I was not asking you to "name names" .. I never asked any questions in search of answers from you, no matter which way you think I was trying to word it .. all I did do was admit to being curious .. simple as that.

Believe it or not, I respect people's wishes and rights to keep things to themselves ... for whatever reason(s), legal or otherwise.

[andicap]

Ah, I read it the wrong way. Mucho apologies.

[Observer]

Glad we finally got that straight! I don't like being misunderstood!

:D