which three year old's career is managed the worst?

[JPinMaryland]

Spanish Chesnut? KC Boy? Sort it Out? You make the call.

[kitts]

Spanish Chestnut for sure. He is not a router. Memories of Officer and Baffert.

[OTM Al]

Sweet Catomine anyone?

[Bobby]

How about any of em D Wayne trained?

The worst luck obviously goes to Rockport HArbor.

[Valuist]

Since the Derby has been known to ruin horses who are overmatched, I'd say both Going Wild and Consolidator.

[PaceAdvantage]

Consolidator overmatched? When? If you leave him out of your tickets on Derby Day, you might be very sorry. His race in the Blue Grass was a farce...he was never meant to win that race...IMO.

[Speed Figure]

Consolidator overmatched? When? If you leave him out of your tickets on Derby Day, you might be very sorry. His race in the Blue Grass was a farce...he was never meant to win that race...IMO.
When is a horse not meant to win G1's?

[cj]

The farce was his win in SoCal the previous race where he walked on the front end on a speed biased strip. ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Gut feeling, that's all. I've seen this song and dance by Lukas before. I betcha he outruns everyone's opinion on Derby Day.

[Tee]

I betcha he outruns everyone's opinion on Derby Day.

He can run fifth!!

[depalma13]

Spanish Chestnut did his job on Saturday, gave Bandini a good pace to run at. I don't think he is mismanaged at all, he was just a rabbit, ensuring a solid pace for the owner's real star.

KC Boy was never anything to begin with.

Sort it Out has been badly campaigned since Baffert got him. SO I will go with him.

[nuckman]

I quite agree with your premise that Consolidator is not an overmatched Derby entry. You only have to go back to the Breeder's Cup where he competed with Sun King and gave a solid effort just being edged by that one. And no one is saying Sun King isn't a logical Derby horse...quite the contrary. One could make the arguement that Sun King has progressed much farther as a 3YO but I can't find that evidence although I think he has proven to be a little more talented to this point which brings us to the Blue Grass Stakes. Neither Sun King nor Consolidator had winning foremost on their mind. Bob & Beverly Lewis point to the Derby. A G1 before the Derby isn't the most important thing to connections like that. After the Derby anything goes...ala Senor Swinger quickly becoming a turf specialist after his Derby experience.

[Jinxed]

As of Sat. when Jeremy Rose whipped the heck out of AA in the last furlongs, the mismanagement continues. He now is assured the ride in the derby, so that is probably the end of the line for AA. Love the horse, hate the jockey. Mismanagement is the only word I can think of when they leave this inexperienced jock on this horse for the Derby. The likes of the "big guys" will have a ball with this kid. If this isn't mismanagement of a great horse, than what is?

[PaceAdvantage]

Man, if mismanagement = SIX wins in NINE starts, then give me MISMANAGEMENT any day of the week baby!! :lol: :lol:

[Figman]

Dear Jinxed,
When a rider just wins a riding title at a track and doesn't ride for the track's leading trainer....that rider has talent! When you come out of your cave in the great "northwest" take a look at the final jock standings for the recently completed 2005 Oaklawn meet.

[rastajenk]

And five love taps is hardly whipping the hell out of the horse.



My vote goes to Snack.

[JPinMaryland]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If he wins a riding title how bad can he be?

Proud Accolade I think the connections are finally seeing the light with him.

Where is Balletto these days? Is that the one that was in Dubai then got hurt?

Fu. Rock Star. Now there is the perfect colt coming off the bench. Like Havlicek was the 6th man. This horse comes off the bench.

What about Greeley's Galaxy? This could be the worst call of all. Horse is finally come into his own and the conections forgot about the late entry!!

Are there more?

[Valuist]

If there's a current nomination for most overrated it would have to be Sun King, who Zito somehow thinks is as good (or better than) Bellamy Road. He won in real slow time in Tampa and ran even worse in the Blue Grass. Zito should take him off the Derby Trail; he'll just clutter up the field for his better stablemates.

[Bobby]

Zito's supposedly big on Andromeda's Hero. HAven't seen much from him. With some of these trainers, I think it's like the more horses in the race, the better chance I'll have too win. That's in spite of what the horse deserves or needs.

[OTM Al]

Got to repeat, Sweet Catomine again. Backed up by the fact that she's now been retired. Good job ruining the racing career of a quality horse.

[classhandicapper]

I thought Consolidator's big race out in CA was highly suspect because it was earned on a rolled wet fast track that appeared to be favoring speed. Considering I thought he was overrated going into the BG because of that, I can't imagine me liking him in the Derby now that there is even more evidence I was right about CA.

[JPinMaryland]

This Sweet Catomine saga gets stranger every day, huh? I dont get the retirement, why did he switch trainers if he intended to retire her? Makes little sense unless maybe she is hurt?

[GeTydOn]

I don't think intentions of retirement were before the trainer change.

[JPinMaryland]

But why the sudden decision then? He dumped Canani like last week, yes? ANd then the decision to breed her was made a few days later I guess.

[bdhsheets]

It's amazing how little some of you bashers know.

Consolidator in his two '05 clunkers was a nervous washed out mess. This one needs to be seen on the track during the post parade. If he's cool calm collected, he'll run a big race. If not, fuhgetaboutit...

Sweet Cat is really no mystery. Wygod knows he screwed up in the SAD. If SC would race again and every time thereafter, questions of the Santa Anita race would be continuously raised. He uses the ruse of shifting trainers, retires SC and it helps keep the CHRB off his butt. Anyone remember that she only lost by 5.

[OTM Al]

Sure makes sense to me and as I said before, if she had all that wrong with her and still only lost by 5, she ran one heck of a race.

[GeTydOn]

No way Wygod retired that filly to keep the CRHB off his butt. The investigation is still on-going. Unless the news reports are wrong.

JP:
Quick decisions are made in this game. The filly was apparently questionable going into the race. Seems like maybe she came out showing something more definite or signs of something more definite. The trainer change came very quick after the race. The vet inspections came under the new care. Timewise probably didn't make sense for a chance at a come back especially if she's in season and they could get a date with A. P. Indy.

Before the SA Derby they said if she didn't run well enough in the SA Derby they wouldn't even go to the Oaks. That right there was a caution flag.

[JPinMaryland]

Consolidator in his two '05 clunkers was a nervous washed out mess. This one needs to be seen on the track during the post parade.

I can sort of see your pt. Looking at the review of his career, he seems up and down. Either he bounces every other race or its something about being nervous.


Wygod knows he screwed up in the SAD. If SC would race again and every time thereafter, questions of the Santa Anita race would be continuously raised.

I dont get this. If she were to race and win next time out, what then? IF she were to race and lose badly this might actually defuse the questions.

wouldnt racing again, serve to allay any questions of her condition?

[JPinMaryland]

The vet inspections came under the new care. Timewise probably didn't make sense for a chance at a come back especially if she's in season and they could get a date with A. P. Indy.


Can you elaborate on this a little? I was under the impression that she went to the treatment center to get her "out" of heat. I was also under the impression from stuff I read on this site, that she might not go back into heat for some time.

Can you explain how horses go into heat or stay in heat? I dont understand that at all. I think you are saying that she is likely still in heat. But I did not get that from the other stuff I have read.

[GeTydOn]

It's all about makin babies at this point, buddy. Wouldn't horses be like people? Meaning there are only certain times when the act produces. I have no idea about the specific chemistry of horse production.

[BarnieClockerbigal]

When is a horse not meant to win G1's?

The Blue Grass was a prep race. Ever hear of MOnarchos or Genuine Risk. (losers of g1's in the prep before the derby)
Their trainers had a plan and it worked. Lukas knows what it takes to win the derby. These guys (the Lewises) are one of his main backers.($$$$) doubt very much he'd be running in the derby if he ain't got a shot to win.

[Valuist]

Did Monarchos run in the Blue Grass? I don't think he did. I know he ran second in the Wood Memorial to Congaree but I thought that was his last prep.

[BarnieClockerbigal]

Did Monarchos run in the Blue Grass? I don't think he did. I know he ran second in the Wood Memorial to Congaree but I thought that was his last prep.

I was just making a point that the Grade 1's before the derby are just that preperation for the big show. Thunder Gulch was crushed in the Blue Grass and came sailing by them in the stretch in the derby. Monarchos was beaten back by Conagee in the wood. Ditto Funny Cide by Empire Maker in the wood.
Heck even Secretariat was BEAT in his final derby prep.

[Valuist]

OK, I misunderstood. Yeah, there's been quite a few that lost the final prep but most ran well, and a number of the final prep losers that came back to get the roses were up against the pace in that prep (Thunder Gulch, Real Quiet, Unbridled, Silver Charm all come to mind, and possibly Monarchos).