Jeremy Rose

[Doc]

Now I'm reading where the owners of Afleet Alex want to boot Jeremy Rose off for the Derby and get a "big-name" rider. I always have liked Rose and have followed his career from the beginning - ironically it was Tim Ritchey that helped him get started. Guess Rose winning the $1 million Arkansas Derby wasn't enough to sway those good 'ole boys from Philly that own AA to keep him aboard. :ThmbDown:

[jotb]

Hello:

There is rarely any loyalty in this game!

Joe

[Suff]

Hello:

There is rarely any loyalty in this game!

Joe

Hi Joe.

Additional discussion on this in another thread

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19454

[takeout]

Depending on the circumstances I’m not sure there should be. I’m still pondering if maybe loyalty wasn’t what cost Smarty Jones the TC.

[garyoz]

Too bad about Rose if he loses the mount. Had a great meet a Oaklawn. He seems to be a very good judge of pace. I really like him off the pace. In terms of Smarty Jones, while I'm no fan of "One Move" Elliot, that colt was going to bounce no matter who was on him. I've always thought of SJ as the ultimate "move-up" trainer horse (or at least since War Emblem).

[DerbyTrail]

I'll write it here as well.. Jeremy Rose will ride Alex in the Derby.. You can hear him at 9:15pm tonight on "attheracesandbeyond.com"

http://attheracesandbeyond.com/

[TOOZ]

The owners threw him a 60,000 bone Saturday. They should pick who they want. If I owned the horse, I would still remember last year and get somone else. Give me the hot pants, marketing hound, cheap f. Spectacular Bid is ringing a bell.

[Doc]

Hey, Blood-Horse is reporting that Rose retains the mount. I think he'll do fine in the Derby.


Doc

[toetoe]

I have not been convinced that Richey can handle the Derby. Turn AA over to Bob Barfart.

[Jinxed]

Although I heard rampant rumors of Rose not riding Afleet Alex, they apparently are all untrue. It is now definite according to a more reliable source than my last one, thank goodness. Jeremy Rose will be aboard Afleet Alex for the Kentucky Derby.
Unlike some of you I'm completely disgusted with the trainer keeping him on the horse. He beat the h*** out of that horse coming down the stretch, and probably took his best race completely out of him. The kid doesn't have the experience to go to the derby and will be completely lost in the shuffle. What a bummer for such a great horse :mad: If some of you are happy about this, please don't tell me.

[PaceAdvantage]

a) he's not a great horse....yet....

b) after all the complaining year after year about how loyalty is thrown out the window after a horse wins a major race and "on goes Bailey" or "on goes Stevens," this story is a breath of fresh air. Good for Jeremy Rose! I hope he throws it in the face of all those who say he doesn't deserve the mount...

For goodness sakes, the only time this horse finished WORSE than 2nd was when Jeremy Rose was NOT on the horse!!! LOL

The man has guided Afleet Alex to SIX wins in EIGHT starts atop his back, and you're going to tell me he doesn't deserve a shot at the Derby.....wow!

[Figman]

How can you guys have a problem with Jeremy Rose? He's competent, experienced and just won the 2005 Oaklawn riding title. He will be riding all week the week before the Derby at Churchill and is extremely confident. He was a very good interview on Tuesday night on attheracesandbeyond.com with John Perrotta, Samm & trainer JJ Graci. Rose has done a lot of riding the past two years and is currently at the top of his game.

[Tote Master]

Sure they might win a leg or two, but not a single Triple Crown winner has ever been riden by a "no-name" jockey.

If I'm the owner of potential TC winner, I put the sentiment aside and only use the best available jockey. Does it make sense to do anything else?

[PaceAdvantage]

There's something to be said for having a rider who "knows" the horse. Look what happened to Azeri when Mike Smith was kicked off...coincidence?

[rastajenk]

If Bellamy Road and Alex finish 1-2, are Rose bashers still going to blame the loss on him? Or is there some slight chance they might admit they got beat by the Now horse and that no rider could have altered the outcome? 'Cause that's where I see this one heading.

[TOOZ]

Pace, 6 of 8, however, you know in racing, fishing and life, (especially with women), it's not the one you got, but the one that got away! I'm off to New Orleans, gents for some Jazz fest, good food and a voodoo refresher course. Don't know if it's because Churchill now owns the Fairgrounds, or because the Derby is late this year, but they moved the fest up a week (it's at the Fairgrounds). Two consecutive weekends. Last year I went and it was on Derby weekend and they had no betting windows open, you couldn't bet the race in the New Orleans casino, couldn't bet it at all. Had to call NY to bet it. This year, the fest doesn't interfere with the Derby. Coincidence?

[Pace Cap'n]

Sure they might win a leg or two, but not a single Triple Crown winner has ever been riden by a "no-name" jockey.

I recall similar comments about some guy riding a horse callled Affirmed.

[TOOZ]

Cauthen was on the cover of SI before Affirmed, I would hardly call him no name at the time. Ronnie Franklin is a better example.

[betchatoo]

Pace, 6 of 8, however, you know in racing, fishing and life, (especially with women), it's not the one you got, but the one that got away! I'm off to New Orleans, gents for some Jazz fest, good food and a voodoo refresher course. Don't know if it's because Churchill now owns the Fairgrounds, or because the Derby is late this year, but they moved the fest up a week (it's at the Fairgrounds). Two consecutive weekends. Last year I went and it was on Derby weekend and they had no betting windows open, you couldn't bet the race in the New Orleans casino, couldn't bet it at all. Had to call NY to bet it. This year, the fest doesn't interfere with the Derby. Coincidence?

I'm headed there today, too. Weather looks good. Last year they flooded and had to cancel Friday of closing week

[TOOZ]

I was there that weekend, spent Friday at Harrah's, chilly as you know what last year, looks like high 70's this year. Got tickets for Billy Idol at the House of Blues on Thursday night, Marcia Ball on Friday night. Jazz brunch at Commander's Palace on Sunday. Three days of fest, check out the Gospel tent, those kids are amazing.

[betchatoo]

If you like blues, I suggest you go to The Funky Pirate and check out Big Al Carson

[TOOZ]

I will try, thanks, enjoy yourself.

[Tote Master]

Pace Cap’n
I recall similar comments about some guy riding a horse callled Affirmed. You must be joking! Right? You would consider S. Cauthen a “no-name” jockey?
As TOOZ mentioned, he had already confirmed his riding abilities.
I think Elliot would be a prime example. I’m not sure if he ever even had a prior mount at Belmont.

PaceAdvantage
There's something to be said for having a rider who "knows" the horse. Look what happened to Azeri when Mike Smith was kicked off...coincidence I wouldn’t consider M. Smith a “no name” jockey either. Changing riders is certainly not something new to this game. An experienced professional can ride any horse, and will certainly make fewer mistakes, but even the best can make a judgement error. They’re human too.

I’ll bet the jockeys when they start running around the track themselves.

[saratoga guy]

You must be joking! Right? You would consider S. Cauthen a “no-name” jockey?
As TOOZ mentioned, he had already confirmed his riding abilities.

Cauthen confirmed he was indeed a special jockey -- but his ride on Affirmed was his first in a Ky Derby and he had just turned eighteen. So there had to be some question marks -- Sports Illustrated notwithstanding...

If by "name" jockey you mean that select handful that immediately come to mind when fans talk about jockey replacement -- then Cruguet only reaches the pantheon of "name" jockeys because of his Triple Crown win. A very good career -- but he wasn't in the stratosphere of the Cordero's or Velasquez's or Pincay's of his day...

And don't forget, Jeremy Rose is an Eclipse winner. Which gives him a "name" few others can claim.

[46zilzal]

CRonnie Franklin is a better example.

where is this one nowadays?....hopefully not in a drug treatment center

[PaceAdvantage]

If you pay any attention to racing, you'd know exactly where he is...about to climb back into the saddle.

[e_r]

'...while I'm no fan of "One Move" Elliot, that colt was going to bounce no matter who was on him.'''

Thanks for the laugh.

ha ha ha ha ha

[Jinxed]

Wow, I guess we should throw out Johnny V. ride on AA because the horse had a lung infection. Does it make it the jock's fault. AA won't win the derby because Jeremy Rose has no experience with the TC or the big boys. He also showed cruel and inhumane treatment of this horse in the stretch run on Sat. and if I was a trainer or owner I wouldn't let this kid ride for at any time. You have seen the best AA has to offer I think and all because of this inexperienced kid beating him down the stretch when he was home free.
Admin or no admin. You are flat out WRONG. :mad:
AA beat a bunch of slugs on Sat. Bandini on the other hand beat a tough group. AA needs to watch out for Buzzard's Bay also. The experienced jocks will have a ball with this kid on AA. They will be out to ruffle his feathers from the beginning. Too bad I love the horse and have all year, but I see this as the end for him....and all because of a nobody jockey.

[Bubbles]

This talk of Triple Crown is just weird. The horse runs a big race, and all of a sudden, we want to CHANGE success?

Old saying: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Applies here. Keep Rose on the horse.

[Bubbles]

And Jinxed, I don't consider Flower Alley or Greater Good slugs. These horses are graded stakes winners, no denying their successes on the track.

[Tote Master]

Saratoga guy
Cauthen confirmed he was indeed a special jockey -- but his ride on Affirmed was his first in a Ky Derby and he had just turned eighteen. So there had to be some question marks -- Sports Illustrated notwithstanding...

If by "name" jockey you mean that select handful that immediately come to mind when fans talk about jockey replacement -- then Cruguet only reaches the pantheon of "name" jockeys because of his Triple Crown win. A very good career -- but he wasn't in the stratosphere of the Cordero's or Velasquez's or Pincay's of his day...
I think it goes without saying who a “name” jockey is. Maybe you and others had questions about Cauthen’s riding ability, but I doubt for a second that L. Barrera or Affirmed's connections did. Sure Cruguet perhaps was not in the same league as many of others mentioned, but then again this thread is not about who the best jockeys are or were. J. Cruguet, B. Baeza, E. Maple and others perhaps didn’t always get the best mounts either, yet these guys always seemed to score at a price. Cruguet on the grass could ride with the best of them. I would not consider Jeremy Rose a Steve Cauthen, and he certainly doesn’t have the experience of a Jean Cruguet.

The following is an interesting excerpt from the SI archives.

Issue date: June 20, 1977
Cruguet had a spectacular Belmont week. Riding only 11 horses, he won eight races, picking up almost $200,000 in purses. If he seemed cocky for his high-flying finish on Saturday (on Seattle Slew), he had been cautious earlier. He took no mounts on Tuesday afternoon so that he could not possibly be hit by a suspension that might have cost him the ride on Slew. And he grounded himself for two days before the Belmont so that he could rest and avoid any possibility of injury.
There is an old saying around the track that "It is not what the people do to the horses that is interesting, it's what the horses do to the people." Cruguet is suddenly savvy and riding superbly. He scored with four of his six mounts on Belmont day, including the 42-to-1 Road Princess in the Mother Goose Stakes. All good riders certainly have their moments, but I don’t bet on the riders. It’s the horse that’s doing the running. A professional jockey is simply trying to control the animal’s running ability in consideration of its competition, the track conditions and the distance of the race.

Best of Luck.

[Figman]

How soon some people forget! The Ritchie/Rose team has been winning races for years and not many horseplayers outside of the Mid-Atlantic region ever took notice. Here is a 4 yr.old story from 2001 from The Thoroughbred Times.
Apprentice jockey Rose rides 300th winner of the year-

Jeremy Rose, the primary contender for this season’s Eclipse Award as the nation’s top apprentice jockey, notched his 300th winner of the year when he guided Flamingo Phil to victory in the sixth race at Laurel Park on Wednesday. The 22-year-old leads the nation’s apprentices in both the win and money earned categories.

Flamingo Phil is owned by Dennis Courtney and trained by Tim Ritchey for whom Rose has won 104 races this year.

Rose won 40 races at Laurel during the winter-spring meeting before shifting his tack to Delaware Park where he earned the leading rider title. He returned to the Maryland circuit in early November.

"At the beginning of the month, I was hoping to reach 300 before the end of the calendar year," Rose said. "Now, I’d like to see if I can win 365 before I lose my bug in February. I am starting to think about the Eclipse Award, but whatever happens it has been a storybook year."

[Jinxed]

Bubs:

First off, what I meant was that although they are graded stakes winners that AA beat, they can't compare with the field that Bandini beat. I think if you look at the horses and compare them you will see that.

Secondly, you are a little late, as I think Rose already broke AA. I truly believe he took the best that horse had to offer and used it up in that race. I don't expect to see another race like that out of AA, and it's a shame as he has been my derby favorite since a little after BC day. I have followed him the whole way. I was happy to see him back in form after the lung infection. AA easily had that race won. He didn't need or deserve the whipping that Rose gave him. It is the inexperience of the jock in not glancing back that he claims caused him to think "he was being caught by Greater Good). Jeremy Rose stated that after the race, perhaps to save face.

All I'm saying is that with that kid on his back the real pros will put AA out of action shortly after he comes out of the starting gate. I will be thrilled if he wins and the first one to say I was wrong, but I sincerely believe we have seen the best and it's really too bad. He should have been pampered in this race, because on his best day the race was clearly his to win.

Sorry Bubs, I just completely disagree with you. "If it's not broke don't fix it" only works if someone "didn't BREAK it". :)

[PaceAdvantage]

Secondly, you are a little late, as I think Rose already broke AA. I truly believe he took the best that horse had to offer and used it up in that race. I don't expect to see another race like that out of AA, and it's a shame as he has been my derby favorite since a little after BC day.

If AA is this fragile, then you're right, he won't win, and doesn't DESERVE to win another race ever again. If a few extra whacks with a whip was all it took, every horse Jerry Bailey or Jorge Chavez ever road would be IMMEDIATELY retired. You ever notice how HARD Bailey hits his horses?

You're going way overboard here. You must have some sort of personal vendetta against Rose or something...you're starting to sound a bit "out there"

[RXB]

Amen, PA.

My friend English Tony told me that if stern cracks of the whip were brutal to a horse, Lester Piggott-- the greatest English rider of all time-- would never have been able to get a good mount.

[Jinxed]

I have absolutely nothing against Jeremy Rose and almost always bet him at OAKLAWN, but that is not the Kentucky Derby. I'm worried the inexperience for a young rider (no matter who it is) is going to do him in in the derby.

I personally don't like Jerry Bailey and never have. I don't like several jocks, but I don't think that makes me "out there" in the least.

What you are saying is I'm not entitled to an opinion, and because I think Jeremy Rose is getting in over his head, there is something wrong with me. I think that is a very unfair statement.

I thought opinions were allowed and sought out here. I merely gave an opinion that Rose is in deep waters and the fact that he whipped a horse that didn't need it is the point I was getting at. If a horse needs the whip because he is going head to head with another horse that is a different story, even though I hate the whipping. Rose was whipping AA for absolutely no good reason. I would appreciate if you think of a good reason you are kind enough to share it with me.

This is all I have to say on the subject. I'll keep my further opinions to myself and hope that I'm completely wrong about Rose and AA in the derby.

Please forgive me for having an opinion on a forum.

[PaceAdvantage]

Please forgive me for having an opinion on a forum.

Now you're just being plain silly. Suit yourself.

Having an opinion is one thing. Ramming it down our throats while completely DISMISSING other people's opinions and statements of fact is quite another.

But then again, that's just my opinion....like it or not...and no I won't be keeping my further opinions from this board....:p

[Dancer's Image]

Jinxed,
I gotta agree with PA here...anyone who expects PA to be fair is just being silly!

BTW, I don't know if anyone else mentioned this in this 3 page thread, but I heard that the connections of AA ofered the mount to Corey Nakatani (he refused, instead opting to stay on Andromeda's Hero) before keeping Rose. AA is a throwaway in the KD with JR aboard, although he may be a throwaway with any jockey.

[Jinxed]

I hardly expected PA not to give opinions freely. I am just tired of trying to explain the reasons I won't bet AA. I'm not surprised that the trainer asked Nakatani first if that is the truth, because he sure didn't seem to endorse Rose right after the race, which led to the speculation. I think, however, like a lot of people he didn't like the ride. Sorry PA, this is my last comment on this, and never did I try and shove anything down anyone's throat. Everyone as you should know has an opinion and you know the old saying about opinions. :D

I thank the last poster for agreeing with me that AA is a throw-out under the circumstances and am very glad someone, anyone came to my rescue, because above all arguing with PA is not my favorite thing to do. :bang: :bang:

I merely stated I love the horse and don't like the choice of jock. I've lived in Arkansas, been to Oaklawn many times....I've been to the derby at Louisville and I can tell you that both tracks are immensely different. I would not want to see a jock inexperienced with Churchill Downs on a derby horse for the first time. You are looking at a large field of horses where skill and experience count for a lot and it's a lot to ask of Rose.

PA, you need to swallow some pride and admit to the things that don't add up for the derby......and being a newcomer in the derby is one of them.

I am disappointed that someone like Corey won't be aboard Afleet Alex, but he is familiar with Churchill and he has a horse I think he probably committed himself too. I don't mean to shove anything down anyone's throat on this forum. You are all big, grown-up men and I'm a woman living on hormones :confused: :bang: and not trying to make anyone angry. I just feel we have seen the best of AA and I hope I'm wrong.

Will PA apologize after the derby, or is that unheard of on this forum? Does PA ever say "I was wrong"? :p ? Just curious.

Everyone have a wonderful day and God Bless. I'm officially retired from this thread now (I said that before didn't I). Well, this time I'm tying my hands behind my back!!

God Speed all my friends here.

[JPinMaryland]

Sure they might win a leg or two, but not a single Triple Crown winner has ever been riden by a "no-name" jockey.



what is your pt? They havent even run one leg of this years triple crown and somehow this factors into whether or not he should be on the mount?

You'd think he had already won two legs of the TC the way you are looking at this. Just one race at a time please.

[PaceAdvantage]

Will PA apologize after the derby, or is that unheard of on this forum? Does PA ever say "I was wrong"? :p ? Just curious.

I'm sorry, have I offended you in some way? You tell me Jeremy Rose sucks and doesn't deserve the mount on AA for the Derby. I tell you he's won 6 of 8 times with AA, and GOT him where he (AA) is today, and that he certainly does deserve the mount. MY OPINION.

Why does that offend you?

If AA loses the Derby, it most likely won't be Jeremy Rose's fault. If it is clearly Jeremy Rose's fault, then I will by all means bow down to you and annoint you queen of this thread.

You can explain all you want about why you think AA doesn't have a chance with JR aboard. Just like I can explain right back to you that I don't agree.

Do you know how many different threads you posted this opinion to? More than one, that's for sure. I believe the number might be THREE. That's why I used the term "ramming it down our throats."

Your attitude towards me is unwelcome and uncalled for. If you are going to post a strong opinion, expect an equal reaction in return. If you can't handle different opinions other than your own, then maybe you shouldn't have posted your strong opinion in the first place.

[toetoe]

He's better than ever. Much as I hate to see "Ace" Piesen and his buddies proven right, their contention that he was THE Derby horse ... may prove out. HUGE shot.

[Kreed]

Corey N. STINKS. sure he looks good when some wonderful Equine drags HiM
Home. But to me he lacks any strategic moves. He goes Wide everytime I see
him ride, but maybe its my TV. AND I agree with PA on this issue. WHY do these owners NOT realize loyalty matters. Maybe one day science will ProVE
that jockeys matter, sometimes for Good, other times Bad. Some horses are
sensative to whose mounting them, a very good trait in my mind.

[toetoe]

Hey, KreedToomey,

We were just trying to figure whether Alan Patterson stayed on Casual Lies through the Triple Crown in 1992. Shelley Riley was owner AND trainer, so she could do what she wanted. Made a million with the colt, I think.

[Tote Master]

Tote Master
Sure they might win a leg or two, but not a single Triple Crown winner has ever been riden by a "no-name" jockey.
JPinMaryland
what is your pt? They havent even run one leg of this years triple crown and somehow this factors into whether or not he should be on the mount?
You'd think he had already won two legs of the TC the way you are looking at this. Just one race at a time please My point is very simple (that’s why I underlined the word EVER). Why would an owner/trainer want to use an inexperienced jockey for any leg of the TC (particularly the first) if they really believed that their horse had the potential to win the TC. If I’m the owner of such a horse, I would hope that my trainer had the foresight in not only preparing the horse, but in seeing to it that we had the best available rider.

Right after the Derby is over of course, many will be talking about why such and such lost the race because of perhaps a jockey’s misjudgment and thus compromise the chance for a TC. In the meantime the winner of the Derby will be scrutinized in terms of its chances to actually win the TC, especially without the services of a veteran rider. So the point is why not just start off with a more seasoned and experienced jockey and give the horse its best chance to perform to its potential. As I mentioned, any jockey can make an error, but in a series of races of this dimension the inexperienced rider is just more prone to make a mistake for any number of valid reasons.

This talk about loyalty is nonsense. Some act as if it were the jockey that was carrying the horse around the track. The jockey was paid for his previous services. So now they owe him something more? They should consider themselves privileged to be chosen for future mounts, especially in the TC series. If they only run the best 3-year olds, then why not use only the best jockeys? From what I've witnessed in over 35 years, an experienced rider can win with any horse, because its the horse that's doing the running. (At least the last time I looked.)

Best of Luck!

[Pace Cap'n]

How much experience do you reckon would be enough?

[PaceAdvantage]

This talk about loyalty is nonsense.

So, you believe that experience in a race such as the Kentucky Derby counts, but experience riding a SPECIFIC horse, with all his quirks and tendencies, doesn't count?

I beg to differ. Loyalty has little to do with my opinion, although it is a nice sentiment. I believe you dance with the girl (or jockey) WHO GOT YOU TO THE (big) DANCE because she (or in this case he) KNOWS HOW TO RIDE THIS HORSE.

[TJC]

Shouldn't we wait to see who actually is entered in the Derby and what the post positions and odds are before we throw any horses out?

[Hosshead]

Steve Cauthen. No Derby Experience. 18 yrs. old.

[RXB]

Hey, KreedToomey,

We were just trying to figure whether Alan Patterson stayed on Casual Lies through the Triple Crown in 1992. Shelley Riley was owner AND trainer, so she could do what she wanted. Made a million with the colt, I think.

I think Stevens rode Casual Lies in the TC races.

[Tote Master]

PaceAdvantage
So, you believe that experience in a race such as the Kentucky Derby counts, but experience riding a SPECIFIC horse, with all his quirks and tendencies, doesn't count?
Hosshead
Steve Cauthen. No Derby Experience. 18 yrs. old.
Pace Capn
How much experience do you reckon would be enough? Did I mention anything about experience in the KY Derby as counting (or in any other TC leg for that matter)? Absolutely not! But there is certainly a distinct difference between a veteran journeyman and an apprentice. Cauthen was the exception, but he certainly proved his riding abilities the year before the derby. There’s nothing wrong with having ridden at the tracks where the TC events are held either. Of course having previously ridden in any of those 3 races only adds experience and exposure to the pressures of being in the public’s eye. There are also many other important Graded stakes that can also be used to indicate a rider’s abilities.
PaceAdvantage
I beg to differ. Loyalty has little to do with my opinion, although it is a nice sentiment. I believe you dance with the girl (or jockey) WHO GOT YOU TO THE (big) DANCE because she (or in this case he) KNOWS HOW TO RIDE THIS HORSE. That’s exactly where we differ! Any competent jockey can ride any horse at any time. It isn’t the jockey that wins the race, it’s the horse. If the horse hasn’t got it, there’s nothing a jockey can do that will make it win. However, I believe the opposite is also true. If the horse has got it, something a jockey might do can cause it to lose.

In my opinion, the veteran jockey listens to instructions and is keenly aware of his competition. He knows how to properly use the reigns for steering, the whip for acceleration, the clock in his head and the pace as his speedometer. He attempts to control the energy of the animal beneath him and guide him to victory. He’s certainly a professional, but if the horse that he’s on is not in condition or of lesser caliber, all that he does right will not produce a win.

Best of Luck!

[chrisg]

In the UAE they'll be using robots...I say we go w/ 126lbs. of sand.

All in favor?

:ThmbUp:

Against?

:faint:

Let's get on w/it then; we need 40 bags of sand weighing 63lbs. each delivered to the saddling area for the Derby.

By coincidence, this will be the first year that Churchill Downs will be holding a Strongest Jockey Competition prior to the Derby...you guessed it; they'll be trying to lift those bags of sand.

;) :p

[PaceAdvantage]

Any competent jockey can ride any horse at any time. It isn’t the jockey that wins the race, it’s the horse. If the horse hasn’t got it, there’s nothing a jockey can do that will make it win. However, I believe the opposite is also true. If the horse has got it, something a jockey might do can cause it to lose.

EXACTLY!! And who is more likely to make a mistake that causes a horse to lose? A jockey who's ridden the horse EIGHT times and won SIX races, or a jockey who has NEVER ridden the horse before??? Common sense tells you the answer to that question.

Rose has proven more than competent by not only his impressive record guiding Afleet Alex, but by winning the riding title at the just completed Oaklawn meet. There's absolutely no reason to change course at this point. JR and AA are a winning combo. Why mess with success?

[Dancer's Image]

That's your opinion, PA, and you're certainly entitled to it. But the only opinion that matters is that of the owners of AA, they pay the bills and therefore they hire the jockey, sometimes with the assistance of the trainer.
If the owners of AA are happy with JR riding their horse (and they're obviously conflicted since they asked Corey Nakatani first before giving the ride to JR), then I'm happy. They don't have to answer to anyone, but they will have to listen to the "I told you so's" when AA doesn't win the Derby, and he won't with JR aboard.
Just answer this simple question, PA. You've been appointted owner of AA; who gives you the better chance of winning the KD, Jeremy Rose or John Velasquez?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'd probably rate it an equal chance, given that JV is considered by most (if not all) to be a better jockey.

HOWEVER, the familiarity of AA to JR puts him about equal with JV on this particular horse, in my opinion. In other words, JR's experience with AA makes him an equal to JV when riding Afleet Alex.

[toetoe]

Image and ilk,

Please give the namby-pamby, putative, what-if, I-told-you-so scenarios a rest. What if Nakatani lost the Derby on AA, or any horse, for that matter? Would anyone second-guess anyone about anything? SHOULD anyone? Jeez, did Jorge Velasquez cost Alydar the Triple Crown? I TOLD 'em to try to get Laffit Pincay.

If you think Rose is a lousy rider, say so. If you will never be satisfied until you get the very best, then turn the horse over to Nick Zito, or whomever.

[Dancer's Image]

I'd probably rate it an equal chance, given that JV is considered by most (if not all) to be a better jockey.

HOWEVER, the familiarity of AA to JR puts him about equal with JV on this particular horse, in my opinion. In other words, JR's experience with AA makes him an equal to JV when riding Afleet Alex.


Good answer, PA...I can't argue with that!

ps. to ToeToe: I thought this was a horseracing discussion forum, so why do you want me to stop discussing? As for your command, "If you think Rose is a lousy rider, say so.", I realize this is a long thread, but in my post #38, I said this..."AA is a throwaway in the KD with JR aboard, although he may be a throwaway with any jockey." Is that explicit enough? Although I have to chuckle at you calling my posts, "namby-pamby and putative"...I've certainly been called worse in this forum! LOL

[toetoe]

O.K., as usual I ranted without making myself well understood. It's just that "What will the neighbors say?" is no reason to do or fail to do ANYTHING. Can't we find some POSITIVE reason for touting a jockey? PVal would fit this colt like a glove, or Bailey would win on this guy with his riding style. Other than that, we have thousands of jockeys that will win with the best horse getting the good trip, and lose on no-hopers. The rooting for a talented horse like AA need not descend into putting ourselves into the owner's shoes, and then running scared, desperately seeking a jockey to cover their ass. But here's the rub. If he wins with the new rider, everybody's a fat, rich, genius. If he wins with Rose, things are still cool, although the "experts" will say it was all the horse' doing. But if he loses, it won't be a case of "that's racing." No, it'll be somebody's fault.

Guess my terminology betrays me as an F-word (fuddy-duddy).

[Dancer's Image]

to ToeToe:

Dear fellow fuddy-duddy,
I still think you really do protest too much. This is a horseracing discussion forum and the thread is entitled Jeremy Rose. I never said "What will the neighbors say?" was a reason to do or not do anything. As for finding a positive reason for touting Jeremy Rose, not I can not find one! I think he is the wrong choice for AA in the KD, but I believe it is AA's owners right to make that wrong choice. And I will be the first one to eat crow should JR win the KD aboard AA! But with privilege, comes responsibility...AA's owners have the privilege of naming the jockey on their horse; after the race they will be responsible for accepting the praise should they win, and the blame should they lose. It all goes with the territory, and should they lose, I will be in this forum to politely point out to them that they might have won if they had retained PVal, CNak, Jb, or JV instead of JR. (not they give a rat's ass what I think, nor should they, but hey, that's the beauty and the fun of horseracing and discussing same!)

[toetoe]

OK, final say from this n-p fud-dud: I support your right to say he's subpar. I just wish the post ended at "... he's the wrong for the horse, PERIOD(or DOT, in Cyberland)" and that's probably overbearing of me. I'll move on and consider my pet of all pet peeves, the notion that Pico Central deserves to be denied the Eclipse Award, because he DUCKED BIG RACES! ... (pause, followed by headshaking and puzzled laughter).

[Elysium Stables]

I am astounded at some of the things in this thread concerning both Alex and Rose. First off Jinxed you need to log onto kentuckyderby.com and watch the AD again. 2 touches at the quarter pole and 3 in the stretch is nothing at all, thats 5 smacks with the whip and you are shouting animal cruelty get a grip, and no he didn't run Alexs race out of Alex he wouldn't have blown out a candle in the winners circle and was cooled out in 25 minutes. As far as the "dump timmy" post thats just more idiotic slander that shows that even some of the most avid racing fans know NOTHING about training...give him to baffert?? are you kidding me? Baffert was at the 2 year old sale where alex went for 75k and so were many other racing names that you all revere for the simple fact that they get the best horses to train, the horses have made them and not vice versa, and yet Ritchey picked out Alex for Cash is King and only 1 other bidder tried for him. And as for the whole Nakatani thing...he was NEVER asked to ride alex nor was he even considered, his agent is responsible for saying he declined to ride alex, I guess this was supposed to make Nakatani look good by declining the favorite, that worked well. And as for the people in this thread bashing Alex himself, get a life, he's a horse and one of, if not the classiest and most intelligent horse in the tc hunt at the moment. He's been underrated and overlooked since day 1, yet he has made more than any other 3 year old and boasts, despite the rebel, the most consistent record not to mention breaking a 34 year old gr. II stakes record and tieing another at a gallop. The funniest thing is that if he was trained by any of your apparent holy trinity, Zito, Baffert or Lucas and ridden by...take your pick... he would be the greatest thing since Secretariat.

[toetoe]

My apologies for not making it clear that the 'Dump TRitch' thing was a bad joke, intended to correspond to the 'Dump JRo" campaign. No Barfart, or Zito, or whoever it was. Just a bad, bad joke.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's spelled LUKAS!

It's always peeves me that one of this sport's most recognized figures still gets his last name spelled incorrectly!

And I DOUBT very much that many people on this board would include Lukas, (or Zito or Baffert for that matter) as part of their training "Holy Trinity"

With that said Elysium, you know where I stand on the matter. I think Rose deserves the mount...I'm on your side (although I'm not yet sold on the fact that AA is the best horse going into the Derby, but he's certainly on the short list....)

[cj]

It's spelled LUKAS!

Didn't Lucas also direct all those Star Wars movies? Wow, where does he find the time? :lol::lol:

By the way, what's with the geeks already in line for the movie? Get a freaking life!

[Dancer's Image]

I was of the opinion that the owners should dump Rose in favor of one of the top tier jockeys (Bailey, Prado, Velasquez, et al). Having said that, let me just say that I was impressed by the ride of Jeremy Rose aboard AA yesterday. He acquitted himself quite well in his first Derby ride.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, he certainly did.

Watching his ride from the blimp view, I was reminded of Jerry Bailey's ride aboard Sea Hero. Just when you thought AA was finished, the hole would open, and through it Rose would shoot.

I can't remember how many times I cringed watching the blimp shot, thinking that AA was gonna clip heels and go down, but the kid Rose kept his cool, and NEVER had to check the horse or have him lose his momentum.

He got up behind horses turning for home, but he didn't panic....the hole opened again, and he gave AA the entire length of the stretch to win the race.

I think everyone who was dissing Rose prior to the Derby owes him a big fat apology.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I was of the opinion that the owners should dump Rose in favor of one of the top tier jockeys (Bailey, Prado, Velasquez, et al). Having said that, let me just say that I was impressed by the ride of Jeremy Rose aboard AA yesterday. He acquitted himself quite well in his first Derby ride.

Hey Dancer!!
Im with you and also PA. I was very impressed in his ride but mostly the interview after the race, This guy sounded first class and knew what he was talking about. He did a hell of a job, Just too bad his horse got late in the final strides..He handled the pressure like a pro.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, his post race interview also left a positive impression on me.....I forgot to mention that in my prior post.

[46zilzal]

in word and deed

[Tom]

Didn't Lucas also direct all those Star Wars movies? Wow, where does he find the time? :lol::lol:

By the way, what's with the geeks already in line for the movie? Get a freaking life!

Ron White - comedian - said he saw people out in line for days to get concert tickets. He said,"They camped out 5 days to get tics. I wouldn't do that if I was....camping!" :D

[Tote Master]

I find it amusing how everyone’s talking about Jeremy Rose’s ride after finishing third. (On a horse that many thought had a real shot). When in fact a true journeyman, Mike Smith aboard a horse that no one gave a second thought to, actually won the race. It was primarily because Smith rode a great race that set up perfectly for his intentions.

If AA was that good, and Rose’s ride was that good then why didn’t he win it?

Actually, I thought Closing Argument really ran one heck of a race. He laid much closer to that torrid pace than AA and still finished ahead of him (and many others too). So when Rose commented after the Derby about, “the best horse not always winning the race”, he was right. But it certainly wasn’t AA.

[Figman]

It is not the tote board nor the jockey that wins....it's the horse, at least the last time I checked, it really is the horse that wins a race. It is up to the jockey to give him a clean trip. Rose did a great job!

[keilan]

If AA was that good, and Rose’s ride was that good then why didn’t he win it?

Actually, I thought Closing Argument really ran one heck of a race. He laid much closer to that torrid pace than AA and still finished ahead of him (and many others too). So when Rose commented after the Derby about, “the best horse not always winning the race”, he was right. But it certainly wasn’t AA.


The reason Alex didn't win the Derby is exactly the reason myself and others alluded to before the race -- he's not good enough. He received the perfect trip and pace scenario and still couldn't get it done. If the Beyer number comes back in the low 100's that won’t be a big surprise as that’s about Alex’s potential, he’s a consistent, solid performer race-in-race-out but not a Derby horse.

Closing Argument from post 18 ran the best race of the bunch. Too bad NBC didn’t show the last 4 or 5 horses in the post-parade coverage, I would have liked to see how Closing Argument looked before the race. I made a quick note beside Giacomo that he “looks very good” to go along with my other comment on him that he was “working fast”. I only had Giacomo rated to finish as high as 3rd along with several other runners. The announcer’s with NBC forgot to even acknowledge Buzzards Bay until about 30 seconds had elapsed after the post parade. They are brutual!!!

I figured the pace to be quick but not suicidal, what do jockeys think at times like this, It’s like the race is 10f right, and we’re running sprint fractions. I would love to be sitting there when the trainer has to explain this to the owner or listen to the dialog after the race between trainer and jock.

[Jinxed]

I liked Buzzard's Bay in the derby, but stayed away from him after he drew the 20 hole. He still ran a good race and finished 5th. I hope he is going on the Preakness, because I'd love a chance to see him run again. He certainly outran his odds and finished ahead of the favorite (but then so did many horses). I disagree though that AA had a perfect trip. Those horses were boxed up pretty good for awhile with no running room. AA had one chance I saw on watching the reruns to go inside or outside and Rose opted for the inside. I believe that probably was the worse place to be, but AA still ran a good race. I always thought Bellamy Road was over-rated and I couldn't stand the chance of Steinbrenner winning :) :)

I'm glad to see a great jock and trainer winn the derby even if I didn't have either of them. I, however, don't see it as a fluke and I will be all over Giacomo once again in the Preakness.

[46zilzal]

The reason Alex didn't win the Derby is exactly the reason myself and others alluded to before the race -- he's not good enough.

Ten feet short after 10 furlongs is hardly BAD

[PaceAdvantage]

I find it amusing how everyone’s talking about Jeremy Rose’s ride after finishing third. (On a horse that many thought had a real shot).

The only reason we're talking about it is because Jeremy Rose was a source of major criticism BEFORE the Derby. Nothing amusing about it.

[Lasix1]

The only reason we're talking about it is because Jeremy Rose was a source of major criticism BEFORE the Derby. Nothing amusing about it.
You're exactly right, PA. Leave the kid alone. He rode a great race, and his post-race interview shows he's got a head on his shoulders. If Bailey or Gary Stevens had ridden AA, all you would have heard is what a great ride they gave him in a rough, difficult race, and how they almost got him to the wire anyway. With Rose all you get is second-guessing.

You're gonna hear a lot from both this kid and AA in the future.

[keilan]

really pitiful isn't he?
Ten feet short after 10 furlongs is hardly BAD


I never said he was pitiful but you are.

[RXB]

I wouldn't say that the pace was perfect for Afleet Alex. Helpful, but not perfect. If you look at his races he's always close to the lead by the time they've gone 6f. He's a stalker, and in this Derby the pace was perfect for a stretch runner, not a stalker.

He certainly ran better than the other favourites, and I don't think that this was any surprise given his overall superiority in speed figures, graded stakes consistency, and the probable pace scenario.

He's perhaps established himself, though, as a horse who can't quite do the job in the late stages of Grade 1 routes. Close but no Cigar.

[46zilzal]

I never said he was pitiful but you are.

I am still waiting on the "lesson" someone was going to teach me on the horse that wasn't going off form either....Two months now and SINGLE workout.

[keilan]

I wouldn't say that the pace was perfect for Afleet Alex. Helpful, but not perfect. If you look at his races he's always close to the lead by the time they've gone 6f. He's a stalker, and in this Derby the pace was perfect for a stretch runner, not a stalker.

He certainly ran better than the other favourites, and I don't think that this was any surprise given his overall superiority in speed figures, graded stakes consistency, and the probable pace scenario.

He's perhaps established himself, though, as a horse who can't quite do the job in the late stages of Grade 1 routes. Close but no Cigar.

Rxb –possibly I overstated his trip but nevertheless it was much better then many other contenders received.

As far as establishing himself as a horse who “can’t quite do the job” no argument here, I’ve always felt that way about Alex and stated so.

[keilan]

I am still waiting on the "lesson" someone was going to teach me on the horse that wasn't going off form either....Two months now and SINGLE workout.


46½ IQ

The horse won his very next start if you remember. Unless you know the exact reason he hasn’t raced as of late - keep quiet, cause all you’re doing is grasping at straws.

[PaceAdvantage]

This isn't off-topic. Keep the tension and the cutesy name calling out of the horse racing topics.

[keilan]

Sorry pa – I thought I sort of flattered the idiot.

1) Berrythegold was a horse he said was going off form, I disagreed and stated why -- funny thing happens about 3 weeks later, the horse is entered back into exactly the same class level and wins. Now some months later he is hounding me because the horse hasn't raced back. The horse could be lay-off for a number of reasons………..

2) I categorically stated why Alex wouldn't win the Derby and further stated I felt he was an above average contender this year but why he would fall short. The pace of race and ride from Rose still couldn’t get him better then 3rd, does any serious player still believe he was Derby horse? And again he makes a snide comment “Ten feet short after 10 furlongs is hardly BAD”

See some players have an opinion about the track and give their opinions before the race is run while guys like 461/2 post snide remarks in every thread they enlist. I’m tired to his crap and if you want to kick my ass outta here for stating the obvious – go ahead

[Tote Master]

Tote Master
I find it amusing how everyone’s talking about Jeremy Rose’s ride after finishing third. (On a horse that many thought had a real shot).
PA
The only reason we're talking about it is because Jeremy Rose was a source of major criticism BEFORE the Derby. Nothing amusing about it.Granted J. Rose did a decent job of laying somewhat off the pace, and trying to score on a horse that many felt could win. I’m not sure the criticism was about J. Rose per se. From my perspective it was more about using a less experienced rider in a big race then one like say M. Smith.

I only stated that I found it amusing because I felt that the focus should rather be on how well M. Smith rode his mount; an animal that not many gave a chance in hell in winning the Derby.

Right now, I find it kind of ironic that PA brought up Mike Smith earlier in this thread (prior to the Derby). Little did we know how important riding in (12) prior Derby’s would be!

Keilan
I figured the pace to be quick but not suicidal, what do jockeys think at times like this, It’s like the race is 10f right, and we’re running sprint fractions. I would love to be sitting there when the trainer has to explain this to the owner or listen to the dialog after the race between trainer and jock. I’d have to agree. It appears that the jockeys on the lead horses certainly compromised their chances! The entire pace scenario fell right into the hands of the closers, even though the track looked to be playing pretty fast. Perhaps the pre-race instructions weren’t followed. If not, then both the owners and trainers have some serious issues with their jockeys.

Best of Luck.

[PaceAdvantage]

I’m tired to his crap and if you want to kick my ass outta here for stating the obvious – go ahead

Why would I kick your ass outta here? Why does everyone automatically assume just because I point something out, that this automatically equates to being in danger of being kicked off the island....LOL

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't kick people off at the drop of a hat.

[JustRalph]

I always thought Bellamy Road was over-rated and I couldn't stand the chance of Steinbrenner winning :) :)

How and the hell do you get that Bellamy was over rated.........he ran almost the same race as the Wood? As for JR I think he rode a damn fine race all things considering. Even Beyer commented on it in his latest article on the Derby.

[kingfin66]

I figured the pace to be quick but not suicidal, what do jockeys think at times like this, It’s like the race is 10f right, and we’re running sprint fractions. I would love to be sitting there when the trainer has to explain this to the owner or listen to the dialog after the race between trainer and jock.

I've always wondered if jockeys know how fast they are going for the splits. For example in the Derby, they all know Spanish Chestnut would be on the lead, but would eventually spit the bit. Given that the scenario played out like they thought, do they have a way of knowing how fast they're going? Do they count seconds? Is it just intuition and experience? It does seem that some jockeys have much better sense of this than other.

[46zilzal]

funny how some "Kill the messenger" rather than objectively look at them ...innovators have always had that trouble....it' s okay, I'm used to it.

[PaceAdvantage]

There's a fine line between beneficial self-confidence and offensive pompous-assidence.....

[46zilzal]

There's a fine line between beneficial self-confidence and offensive pompous-assidence.....

why should I expect anything different here?

[46zilzal]

Berrythegold

Date: May 10, 2005
Track: MONMOUTH PARK
Distance: Four Furlongs
Time: 49:20 Breezing
Track Condition: Fast
Surface: Dirt
Rank: 4/20

[PaceAdvantage]

why should I expect anything different here?

And why should we? Unfortunately.

[how cliche]

Afleet Alex was my win bet and tri wheel key in the derby. I think Rose put in an admirable ride for all of Alex's backers. I saw only one mistake and I voiced it out loud when it happened. When watching the race I said, "Wait Jeremy. Wait." And when he moved I told my wife, "Rose just moved too soon." I recall G. Stevens saying the trick to winning the derby is to "Wait, wait, wait, and when you think it's time to go, wait some more." That comes from experience. Rose showed only a tad of the impatience of youth, but he put in a fine ride.

[Bubbles]

Afleet Alex was my win bet and tri wheel key in the derby. I think Rose put in an admirable ride for all of Alex's backers. I saw only one mistake and I voiced it out loud when it happened. When watching the race I said, "Wait Jeremy. Wait." And when he moved I told my wife, "Rose just moved too soon." I recall G. Stevens saying the trick to winning the derby is to "Wait, wait, wait, and when you think it's time to go, wait some more." That comes from experience. Rose showed only a tad of the impatience of youth, but he put in a fine ride.

Well-said. You can't really blame Rose for AA running third in the Derby. I'd love to see what he does when Rose knows the track in the Preakness.

[Kreed]

Hey, first of all, what a Great Nic. Second, what your wife say? it must
take steel nerves to WAIT then Pounce. hehe ... wait too long, everyone's
back to the barn. this KD unfolded its own way, kinda inevitable, so why fight
it, but can we learn that a 120 is bound by parameters, and those did NOT
apply on Saturday. yeah, yeah, yeah, how tragic to some, but is that the
explanation we can benefit from? lol, i was in Vegas in april for 4 days, on a
business trip, and i decided to play some BJ, which i usually don't. i sat next
to this guy from MN i think, but as soon as I sat down HE won. Maybe 20
hands out of 25, he got paid off. Sh** i lost maybe $300 & was gonna leave,
when he BEGGED ME to stay. ummm, ok for a another 10 mins i said, he kept
right on winning, about the same. it was eerie. it just happens & i'm not
capable of explaining it, but celebrate if you picked Giacomo or cry or regret
but no matter how YOU react, you just were NOT in sync with Reality on 5/7.

[JimG]

a) he's not a great horse....yet....

b) after all the complaining year after year about how loyalty is thrown out the window after a horse wins a major race and "on goes Bailey" or "on goes Stevens," this story is a breath of fresh air. Good for Jeremy Rose! I hope he throws it in the face of all those who say he doesn't deserve the mount...

For goodness sakes, the only time this horse finished WORSE than 2nd was when Jeremy Rose was NOT on the horse!!! LOL

The man has guided Afleet Alex to SIX wins in EIGHT starts atop his back, and you're going to tell me he doesn't deserve a shot at the Derby.....wow!

PA,

Good call on Jeremy Rose, in advance. After watching him in the Preakness today, I don't think there will be many naysayers regarding Rose.

Jim

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, Rose is sure gaining a lot of people's respect, with each passing race in the spotlight. Like I said, those who put him down prior to the Derby owe him an even BIGGER apology now....LOL

[High Stakes]

PA: All I can say to that is "Amen!"

[Tom]

Well-said. You can't really blame Rose for AA running third in the Derby. I'd love to see what he does when Rose knows the track in the Preakness.

Well, Bubbs, were you disappointed? :)

[CryingForTheHorses]

Yeah, Rose is sure gaining a lot of people's respect, with each passing race in the spotlight. Like I said, those who put him down prior to the Derby owe him an even BIGGER apology now....LOL

This is a very smart jockey! He will go a long way, Very well spoken and in the heat of the moment he could have cursed RD for coming out but he showed real class.I thought it was funny when he said we was both scared and I hung on for dear life Too sacred to fall off...Wish he was riding here..Well said PA

[Elysium Stables]

Alex can't go 2 turns...

Alex just can't get it done...

Rose isn't a good enough rider...

Ritchey is training the horse to hard...

in the words of Tim Ritchey "winning solves everything"

[Dan Montilion]

I could have swore I seen the horse carrying the jock.

Dan Montilion

[Bobby]

Alex can't go 2 turns...

Alex just can't get it done...

Rose isn't a good enough rider...

Ritchey is training the horse to hard...

in the words of Tim Ritchey "winning solves everything"

Yea, he's the best of this bunch of 3 yr olds. Alex showed a lot of determination getting up from the clipping and still blowing by Scrappy.

Elysium, So what's the thinking in regards to Ritchey's comment: "What concerns me is (the chance of) muscle injuries, because he was contorted in a way that horses aren't meant to be. But he walked perfect today."

He has to be real sore.

[PaceAdvantage]

He has to be real sore.

Not necessarily....

[Niko]

I bet against him from post 12 but I'm so incredibly happy that Ritchey and Rose won after taking the heat they did before the Derby...two years in a row the trainers stuck by their jockeys and training methods and it paid off.
God bless em!!

[Elysium Stables]

He has to be real sore.

It was a concern but he has turned out to be fine which is amazing.

[46zilzal]

I bet against him from post 12
At that distance do you think that post postion makes that big a difference?

[Dancer's Image]

After watching the Belmont, I think we need to reopen this thread and examine how Jeremy Rose could possibly lose the Derby aboard this super horse, Afleet Alex?

Seriously, I admired his humility talking after the race about how he must have made a mistake to lose the Derby on this super horse.

[46zilzal]

After watching the Belmont, I think we need to reopen this thread and examine how Jeremy Rose could possibly lose the Derby aboard this super horse, Afleet Alex?

NOTHING moved up on the rail at CD all day that day. Even the great mare got caught earlier in the program there ("Madcap" whatever). You don't get to PICK your spot in a field that large. Always a factor of LUCK, think of the Dancer losing ONLY that race...many others had bad racing luck.

[kingfin66]

Hmm... I don't recall him saying that exactly. I do recall him saying that he takes responsibility for not winning the Triple Crown regardless of whether or not he made a mistake. I confess, however, that I only saw a couple of minutes of the post race press conference before TVG cut to a live race at Hollywood.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think we need to stop looking for reasons to bash folks like Jeremy Rose. That's what I think.

The kid can ride, and if he were to offer a hearty "F YOU" to all the folks who gave him shit before the Kentucky Derby, I for one, would not hold it against him....in fact, I would stand up and applaud...

BTW, did anyone catch the NY Post this week, and the comments by trainer John Parisella? As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a Maroon!!!!!"

[Observer]

I don't understand why the loss in the Derby has to be Rose's fault.

Good horses get beat .. Great horses get beat .. Even the very best of the best get beat .. that doesn't always mean blame needs to be placed on someone.

The Derby is a tough race .. it's a giant field .. like those horses will never see at any other time in their life .. Alex missed by one length .. he joins a very nice group of runners that have complete 2/3rds of the Triple Crown.

Remember how special Point Given seemed going into the Derby .. he didn't run his race .. then romped in the Preakness & Belmont .. but of course, lots of people blamed Stevens for the ride that day in the Derby.

Bottom line .. it is what it is .. the loss is in the books .. and Rose has proven to be a very intelligent rider .. not many riders have the courage to wait, wait, wait like he did today at Belmont .. not to mention how he doesn't panic when his horse gets in tight .. Rose has ridden Alex with ultimate confidence .. especially today.

[keilan]

I think you have it right.

I especially agreed with your comments about courage, wait-wait-wait like he did today at Belmont.

He showed a lot of maturity today knowing that the track was running fast :)

[kenwoodallpromos]

Depending on how you take it, Rose did say "F You" "My horse should have won the Derby!" But I will take it the way Dancer's Image did, as Rose showing humility. I will applaud. :jump:

[Figman]

46Zilzal:
I agree with you 100%!
Any other path in the lane of the Derby, Rose wins.

The filly MADCAP ESCAPADE fell to the same fate of the wrong place on the track at the wrong time.

[Bruddah]

Afleet Alex has never lost his confidence in Jeremy Rose. The only time, the horse finished out of the money was with another jock (J R Velazquez) up. The lowest Beyer (74) of the horse's career. They said AA had a respiratory infection, which wasn't present before the race. BS!!! This horse isn't going to run for any other jock on his back. He (Rose) has ridden him since he was a baby. The two have bonded and, that's all there is to it.

[CryingForTheHorses]

After watching the Belmont, I think we need to reopen this thread and examine how Jeremy Rose could possibly lose the Derby aboard this super horse, Afleet Alex?

Seriously, I admired his humility talking after the race about how he must have made a mistake to lose the Derby on this super horse.


After the race while the outrider was walking AA back to the winners circle, Donna Barton was on her pony talking to JR, He said triple crown winner but then recanted fast and said should have been a TC winner, ""ITS MY FAULT""..Donna being a rider herself just brushed it aside and started talking about how a lot of horses were in the race...JR said "THAT TOO"..Now for a rider to blame himself, You think this, This guy knows this horse like is own kid,Only JR knows deep down what he could/didnt do different.Strangely enough AA didnt seem to have that "Monster last Quarter" in the the derby or was it because AA jt showed JR he had that kind of kick when he almost went down in the Preakness.That same "Monster kick " was used in the belmont.My feeling is this.For JR to blame himself for AA not getting the TC..He's the rider..He's got to know!

[Dancer's Image]

Interesting thread and topic! I do admire JR for his humility in talking after the race to the lady broadcaster (Donna something?) on the pony; he said he must have made a mistake to lose the Derby because he's sure he has the best horse. Donna, or whatever her name is, quickly stood up for him by saying she didn't see any mistakes, perhaps it was just the 20 horse field. But he was not just being humble, he was being honest...he knows better than anyone that he had the best horse in the derby and should have won!
Now you can say it's just bad racing luck, or you can analyze and examine JR's derby ride and see if he could have done anything differently in order to win. I barely remember the derby, I was watching in a crowded casino, half drunk as usual, and I don't have access to replays since I'm a computer idiot. But someone here in this thread, (I think it was jinxed?), posted that he watched the replay and saw a critical moment when AA had a chance to go either inside or outside, and made the fatal choice of going inside. (Aside to 46zilzal: I hope you're not a lawyer because in your zest to defend JR, you convicted him! You said, " You don't get to PICK your spot in a field that large." Actually, you do get to pick your spot; good jockeys make their own good luck, and apparently JR made his own bad racing luck by being inside that day!)
Examining the KD with the benefit of the retrospectroscope, after the Preakness and Belmont, there is no doubt but that AA was the best horse. The owners made their choice, which was their right, they stayed with an inexperienced jockey instead of switching to a more experienced jockey. We'll never know whether a more experienced jockey would have made a difference in the KD; hell, a more experienced jockey might have fallen off AA in the Preakness. But the owners of AA will have to live with the fact that they had the best horse in all 3 TC races, and yet they only won 2 out of 3. As Meatloaf said so eloquently, that ain't bad, but they'll probably never have another chance to win the TC. I said before the KD that if I was the owner, I would have switched to a more experienced jockey. I say the same thing today.

[Pace Cap'n]

Donna being a rider herself just brushed it aside and started talking about how a lot of horses were in the race... getting the

If any jockey, past or present, knows anything about blowing a race, it would be her. I'm still smarting from one she blew about twenty years ago.

[kenwoodallpromos]

There are many "ifs" in racing; AA's current record is just fine without having to guess about what might have happened (like if Indy Storm had not faded at exactly the right time). So was Smarty's. So are most of the 2-leg winners.

[PaceAdvantage]

Watch the Derby again. AA doesn't get to the RAIL (and I'm talking the ONE path) until very, VERY late in the stretch, when the race was already basically over for him....

AA DRIFTED ever so slightly towards the rail from about mid-stretch, to the finish line....perhaps he was getting tired.

The point here is, you guys are acting as if JR gave AA a rail trip home from the top of the stretch, and this simply isn't so....watch the race again....

[kenwoodallpromos]

Maybe there is a market for a good TBred fantasy league. I mean, We might as well put all the speculation to good use. It is good the races have an afterlife.

[46zilzal]

NOTHING moved INSIDE all day on the DIRT.....is that better?