what ever happened to barry burkan?

[mikeb]

Creator of "power pace" some 25 years ago.
Been among the missing since that very impressive project.

just curious.

hwnn.

[timtam]

Check Barry Burkan in the search feature here. There are a few threads one actually asks about Barry,Norris Strauss and UGH Mike Warren.

I used Power/Pace years ago and according to the search he also had a method called Claiming Magic although I'm not familiar with that one.

Check Barry Burkan on the search feature !! Hope this helps ...

[fishorsechess]

As a person he was a gentleman.

[mikeb]

Thanks tim for the reply.
I was just curious if he ever did an upgrade of any kind,
b/c it had some promise, but then came along the "simucasting"
and i put it aside for quicker analysis.
Probably one of my pitfalls,but i guess everyone sort of fell into that trap.
But to-day i try to use "simucasting" to MY advantage,and so far so good.

thanks again.

[midnight]

Mike Warren (Mike Warren Lasky) is still around. He runs various sports tout services, ran the "Psychic Hotline" (or one of them), and has also has run various lonely hearts 900 numbers where the user pays X per minute to talk to live girls. Sounds a lot like what Jim Feist has been doing.

[fishorsechess]

Always glad to help me out with his products.

[BeatTheChalk]

Barry does not belong in that sentence .. as we all know. Mike Warren
was the " brains " behind the Hot Psychic Hot Line .." Call me Now " Havent
heard or seen much of him lately. I did trade names with him many years
ago when i was ..um Marketing Systems. His names were A +++++

[LEMON DROP]

I have only met one person that makes his sole living in this game. He has gone from method to method and now is playing the power pace method at the big A and doing well. He told me the name of the book, but i never knew the author. I have googled power pace and searched for hours but never came up with what i wanted. He just doesnt give out his methods over beers, perhaps i can google the author and buy a copy for myself. And he has told me that this method is working well because nobody is using it presently, and the odds are just a little better. At any rate, this thread is like a bolt of lightning for me. Good luck to all.:)

[trying2win]

Lemon Drop,

I still have Barry Burkan's "POWER PACE METHOD" for thoroughbred racing. That goes back quite a few years. This material was sold in a 3-ring binder.
I can't even remember if I tried this method out much, way back when.

I have talked to Barry Burkan in the past on the telephone. Again, that was a long time ago. Seemed to be a very personable fellow. As I recall, he had an accent. Perhaps from "New Yawk" or "New Joisey". Barry Burkan seemed to be very knowledgeable about thoroughbred handicapping

I have a couple of old addresses for him (don't know if he still lives at either one). I'm assuming he's still alive. Send me a P.M. if you would like to have these addresses.

Hmmm...maybe I should try to sell my copy of the "POWER PACE METHOD" on ebay. I don't ever recall it being offered for sale in the handicapping section there. Maybe it would attract big dollar bids! Dream on...T2W.....$$$....

[timtam]

Lemon Drop,

I used Power/Pace back in the 80's. I even purchased a Radio Shack hand held computer to make the ratings easier. I even purchased the basic programs for a small shipping fee in case the computer lost power and the programs were lost. Unfortunately I can't seem to find them over the past few years.
The gist of the power pace is doing a calculation at the 2nd call and then one at the finish and all you are basically using is horses beaten at the second call plus the horses beaten at the finish. You used beaten horses and not lengths behind. Ex, if your horse was running 5th in a 10 horse field he would get a pace rating of 50. If he finished 3rd he would get a 30. Your figure for the horse would be 80. Low figure was the play. He added lots of adjustments and with the help of Vince Doyle he had a track bias rating. On the computer early speed was a 1.2 average 1.5 and slow track may have been 1.8 I'm not sure on that one. You looked at the results of the previous
3 days and saw what postions the winners were running at the 2nd call and came up with a formula. He had other adjustments but i dont recall them anymore.
I would never doubt anyone but to make a sole living on Power/Pace would be quite an accomplishment. I know he advocated the 60-40 approach to two horse betting to win. Maybe the guy you know incorporates other factors to power/pace to come up with his plays. Hope this helps !!!

[Dave Schwartz]

Barry Burkan is living in New York, I believe. I looked up his telephone number and called one day about two years ago. Left a message with his wife but he never called me back.

Dave Schwartz

[LEMON DROP]

I would love any info that i could get. If i knew what a PM was, i would send you one. And, yes, my friend uses a number of methods, but he gives more weight to the power pace, but not exclusivley.

[trying2win]

Lemon Drop,

Whenever you read in a post here at the PACE ADVANTAGE site, and you see P.M. being used, it usually means a PRIVATE MESSAGE.

One place you can find the P.M. (or EMAIL) function here at this site, is to left-click on someone's USER NAME in a post. Do that, and a drop down menu will appear. Just go from there. Another place you can find these functions, is to left-click on the 'MEMBERS LIST' on the horizontal menu bar at the top of one of the screens, and do a search.

T2W

[trying2win]

Dave,

When I was looking through the book "Power Pace --A New Method For Handicapping Thoroughbred Races" just recently, I found a five-page article in the back of the book entitled "MODELLING THE WINNER" by David E. Schwartz. I'm just curious, was that you that wrote that article, or someone else with the same name? Looks interesting. I'm going to read the article again. There may be some gems of wisdom on those pages.

T2W

[Dave Schwartz]

Alas, that was me.

The version of ProPace I reviewed at one time was a pretty ingenious idea. Essentially, he used the class level of the race instead of a speed rating and built the horse's ratings (i.e. Ep, SP, W, etc.) from that number.

Pretty original thinking, don't you think?


Dave Schwartz

[Tom]

I don't see that chapter in my copy. Mine is dated 1986...is there a newer edition?
The one I have talks about determining bias by assigning points fro position at the 2nd call - 1=1, 2=1.2, 3=1.4.....etc.

[trying2win]

Dave,

I notice you mentioned PROPACE. That's associated with another product. I'm assuming since we're talking about Barry Burkan in this thread, that you meant to say POWER PACE instead.

Hey, original thinking that goes against the grain of traditional thinking of handicapping, and produces a long-term profit...well...nothing wrong with that! I think being a possibility thinker is essential, if one hopes to become a long-term profitable horseplayer.

Tom,

I've got the same 1986 copyright edition of POWER PACE. The last page of the POWER PACE material is 170. After that there is an addendum...the first page has a title on it...A WINNING ATTITUDE. Once you turn this page over, an article appears...MODELLING THE WINNER by David E. Schwartz. The last page in this addendum is entitled...INVESTING AT THE RACES - WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO WIN?

--Note:

I just finished reading this addendum again...good stuff!...excellent reminders of what it takes to be a winning player at the thoroughbred races. Thanks Dave.


T2W

[Dave Schwartz]

COrrect. I meant PowerPace.

Thanks for getting it right.

Dave

[timtam]

My copy also stopped at page 170. I guess Barry never put the addition out to his earlier buyers. Maybe if i would have had those words of wisdom from Dave right now i could ......................................... hmmmmm!!!!

[Tom]

My copy has nowhere near a page 170 - it has several sections, each re-numbered 1- 25, etc.

[Dave Schwartz]

Okay, students. Just sit at the feet of the master and I will give you the words of wisdom. Here they are:

Ready?

"Buy tickets on line! - Fandango!"

(WHat was that about?)



Special note: If you do not have a Century theatre near you ( and I am betting there aren't any back east, you have no idea what I am talking about.)


Dave

[Doug]

Can't find my copy of power pace. If anyone who has a copy would be kind enough to send me a copy of the chart for beaten horses ratings I would surely appreciate it.

Please send me a PM and I will give you my address.
Thanks

Doug

[traynor]

Like a number of other Sartin people, Barry found harness race more profitable and easier to win consistently. He developed Power Pace for Harness, marketed with full page ads in Sports Eye. Method was basically the same, considering position vs number of entries ("the differential"). When it was new, it generated some spectacular (but uneven) results; lots of winners, lots of longshots, and a good ROI.

Both methods were essentially the same, and, as with many methods, both suffered from overanalysis. If you knew how they worked, you could "handicap" a race in about 15 seconds, eyeballing. Really good results. When the basic approach was "complexified" with various adjustments and qualifications, it seemed to diminish both the mutuels and the win percentage.

If anyone experiments with it, try it both ways; use all the adjustments and components, in contrast to fast eyeballing with very little critical analysis of why that entry could not possibly win this race. Analysis will generally put you off the eventual (high mutuel) winner.
Thanks

[NoDayJob]

Barry Burkan is living in New York, I believe. I looked up his telephone number and called one day about two years ago. Left a message with his wife but he never called me back.

Dave Schwartz

Try these numbers:

212-xxx-xxxx

212-xxx-xxxx

[fishorsechess]

He used to answer all my questions on a casette tape mailed to
me when I sent him a list of questions. He shared everything
and gave.

[PaceAdvantage]

And the reason(s) I should leave those telephone numbers posted on a public message board are.......?????????

[kenwoodallpromos]

The angle of crediting passing more horses after 2nd call on a slower track sound like a good one.

[Doug]

I believe the stregth of the method is how he adjusts the paceline.

i.e. If the paceline you are looking at is at a higher competition level you can go back a position or two to get your beaten horses rating.

DOUG