Things that make you go 'mmmmmmmmmm'

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

1st post boys,so take it easy on me.

I've just came across an interesting item.A pic of free-legged pacer Steady Star,driven by Joe O'Brien,with an article telling how the pair had astounded the harness-racing world,in 1971,by time trialing in an unheard of 1:52!
They shattered the 1966 record of 1:53:3,set by Bret Hanover!

[wilderness]

Times,
If by chance that article is a November 1971 Hoof Beats by Earl Flora?
I've had it online for more than five years :)
http://www.mi-harness.com/publct/Florascope/index.html

I have some better quality images of Steady Star today.
If you interested?
Contact my through the "member list email" providing your email addy.
or go to
http://mi-harness.com/submit and be sure to include your email and a description of what your interested in.

[midnight]

The record by Steady Star was made in a time trial at Lexington, over a bone-hard track that was scraped for that time trial to make it faster, using the single-shaft sulky, which commonly took 2 to 3 seconds off of the times of horses as opposed to the conventional sulky. The single-shaft sulky was later essentially outlawed for being too dangerous.

[wilderness]

midnight,
The possibility of the track being scrapped is a good assumption.
It's quite frequent, even today for major races.

NO SS was used for Steady Star's TT.

One of the images I have is signed by Joe O'Brien.
Other images of the horse in front of the teletimer. NONE have an SS.
Hell! The Modifed was not even created then. (not created until after the SS was banned.)

Don

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Don,
You beat me to the punch.The photo I have shows the conventional sulky,with the 'TT' in clear view above his head.
The pic and info are actually from an old book I was rereading.'Ainslie's New Complete Guide to HARNESS RACING' and the point I was focusing on was that,today,even lesser claimers can go that fast in race conditions!
To be honest,I only recently discovered this site when I did a Google on Al Stanley,and found he was mentioned in the archives.I was trying to find out if there were more recent publications than the few I had.Basically,the info was outdated,since Woodbine & Mohawk were now 7/8 tracks.
I lurked for a couple weeks,and decided to join.

[wilderness]

Times,
It's "impossible" to compare yester-years times with today's times.
It's "nearly impssosible to make a CPI comparison on earnings comparing the horses from different periods.
As a result, when anlayzing the old years, your required to take in the entire picture and atmosphere of what was going on in racing at that time.

Even the racing surfaces are different today than they were in times past.

In yester-years the races went on rail, hail, snow or shine." It didn't matter if the surface was heavy (rated) or frozen (rated.) Today the horseman and their drivers (union/orgs) refuse to race under such conditions and deem them unsafe.

Today's horses on the other hand are not endowed with the stamina to go the multiple heats the older horses went (The horses in the link below were some of the top-horses from that period):
http://mi-harness.com/publct/sgepk.html

Some others here may advise you of newer books. There may even be an old thread.
Steve Chaplin's books are much better than Ainlsie's however even the Chaplin books were made in the early 80's.
Today the clientele at tracks and the industry as a whole has dwindled to such a small market share that books are not being written or published as they once were.

BTW, the photo's in the Ainslie book were courtesy of the United States Trotting Assocaition via their (then dispersed) as publicity photo's to newspaper and other publishing companies.
About a year ago a friend sent me package of these photo's. After scanning them all, many are photo quality.
I have a page on the Ainslie book and those photo's, however all that's displayed are thumbnails:
http://mi-harness.com/publct/drvinf/index.html

Good luck on your exploration of handicapping and may all your wagers be winners.

Don

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Times,
It's "impossible" to compare yester-years times with today's times.
It's "nearly impssosible to make a CPI comparison on earnings comparing the horses from different periods.
As a result, when anlayzing the old years, your required to take in the entire picture and atmosphere of what was going on in racing at that time.
Even the racing surfaces are different today than they were in times past.
In yester-years the races went on rail, hail, snow or shine." It didn't matter if the surface was heavy (rated) or frozen (rated.) Today the horseman and their drivers (union/orgs) refuse to race under such conditions and deem them unsafe.
Today's horses on the other hand are not endowed with the stamina to go the multiple heats the older horses went (The horses in the link below were some of the top-horses from that period):
http://mi-harness.com/publct/sgepk.html (http://mi-harness.com/publct/sgepk.html)
Some others here may advise you of newer books. There may even be an old thread.
Steve Chaplin's books are much better than Ainlsie's however even the Chaplin books were made in the early 80's.
Today the clientele at tracks and the industry as a whole has dwindled to such a small market share that books are not being written or published as they once were.

Dan,I agree with your points.That is why I was surfing to find a more current publication by Al Stanley.My main focus in rereading his older material was to refresh myself with his take on extracting pertinant data from a racing program,and get reaquainted with his money management philosophies.To me,his principles still can apply today.I don't see any need(YET!!)to indulge in other authors' works.And based on the reviews of Ainslie's Tbred handicapping effort,I purchased his Harness edition.Out of curiosity,though,as I really just wanted to read his ideas on handling the financial part of the process.
As for multiple heats?You are so right!Back in the 60's/70's/80's I watched many of these contested at Greenwood,Mohawk & Garden City!They seem to have all but disappeared.Now at most tracks the big boys are kept around by running weekly elims,with qualifiers going into the final a week or 2 later.Even the horses knocked out get their own consolation final,at some tracks.I never used to bet on any of them back then.I really appreciated watching the elite horses race.Same whenever Grand Circuit came to town.Just watched!My friends thought I was weird that way,but I didn't care.And it was so hard because I couldn't even discuss horses with any of them!Their only concern was to bet every race.If I mentioned Strike Out or No Sex Please,they thought I was talking baseball and British sitcoms!Really!!And for years they didn't understand how I could go to the track night after night,and not make a bet for days.I was always disciplined when it came to wagering,and recognizing my opportunities to bet.But I still watched every race,and every replay!No matter what!Back then there was so much that was not in the past performance lines that you could p/u.I caught my fair share of high double & triple digit payoffs that way!Not from one race,but by first picking up on something,then watching subsequent races until the perfect moment arrived.

BTW, the photo's in the Ainslie book were courtesy of the United States Trotting Assocaition via their (then dispersed) as publicity photo's to newspaper and other publishing companies.
About a year ago a friend sent me package of these photo's. After scanning them all, many are photo quality.
I have a page on the Ainslie book and those photo's, however all that's displayed are thumbnails:
http://mi-harness.com/publct/drvinf/index.html (http://mi-harness.com/publct/drvinf/index.html)

Good luck on your exploration of handicapping and may all your wagers be winners.

Thanks Don,but based on the impression I get from perusing this board,any hopes of making a positive impact on my finances by the handicapping method I employ seems to be archaic and antiquated,unless I go the software route.We'll see I guess!

[wilderness]

Times,
There's a very large used bookstore in Detroit.
About six months ago, I made a stop there, not having visited in a while.
In the horse section and sitting on the floor in a box was about a dozen of the Al Stanley books. :)
Had I not come across two other books, one of which was nearly 150 years old (and had an extensive chapter on the famous trotter Dexter), I would have snatched up those Stanley books. On my return visit they were gone.

Don

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Don,
I don't know if you've actually read the harness book by Ainslie,but I did find the following a tad humourous.
When he listed the programs at the end,where he shows how to apply his methods,one was for July 25,1979 at The Meadowlands.The 6th race was the 2nd division of a one mile pace for $15K,2 year olds,qualifying heat for the Woodrow Wilson Pace.He selected Whamo,3-5 fav.,6 for 6 lifetime,that wound up 3rd,after leading into the stretch,beaten by a 4 for 4 lifetime colt named Niatross.

[andicap]

Times,
Is Stanley the best author out there to read? Which one of his books do you recommend?
I'm a flats guy who played the trotters as a teen-young adult and now looking at it again on the recommendation of some people here.

I've of course head of Stanley but don't want to waste a lot of money buying all of his books if one or two will do.

Yeah, I wish there was more harness handicapping discussion around here too. Tough to find. Pandy's board is good, but wish there was more hard-core handicapping discussion like you see on this board for the t-breds.
harnessdriver.com -- the Canadian board -- is all picks and gossip, very little handicapping talk.


Thanks...

[Tom]

Times,
There's a very large used bookstore in Detroit.
About six months ago, I made a stop there, not having visited in a while.
In the horse section and sitting on the floor in a box was about a dozen of the Al Stanley books. :)
Had I not come across two other books, one of which was nearly 150 years old (and had an extensive chapter on the famous trotter Dexter), I would have snatched up those Stanley books. On my return visit they were gone.

Don

Wilderrness,
Where is this store, and what is it's name?
I will be in Detroit next week and would love to check it out.

Thanks

[wilderness]

John King Books.
They are just on the edge of downtown Detroit.
At the corner of Lafeyette and Howard.
http://www.rarebooklink.com/cgi-bin/kingbooks/index.html

They have two buildings. The one on Lafayette is a four-story building with over 1-million books.
The wagering (gambling) books are on the 1st floor.
The other horse books on the fourth floor.


Don

BTW, there are much larger and more in-depth used stores in NY.

[TimesTheyRAChangin]

Times,
Is Stanley the best author out there to read? Which one of his books do you recommend?
I'm a flats guy who played the trotters as a teen-young adult and now looking at it again on the recommendation of some people here.
I've of course head of Stanley but don't want to waste a lot of money buying all of his books if one or two will do.

Let me put it this way.For years I did fine whenever I went to the track alone.But when my girlfriend and others were there,that wasn't always the case.Often a few beers,along with the distractions,interfered with my handicapping.One night at Greenwood I spotted a guy that was one of my employer's suppliers.When I next saw him at work,I asked how often he went to the races,and how he usually did.That's when I learned about Al Stanley.Next time in he brought his copy of Al's book to let me read.It really opened my eyes.Now when I read a program it was like I had deciphered the Rosetta Stone.Though a lot of what he wrote I was doing anyways,it was just so much clearer the way he laid it out!Where I used to get upset if I couldn't get the program the night before,to give myself the chance for some preliminary reading,now I could buy it on my way into the track,and handicap the whole card before the first race!Anyways,that publication was titled Al Stanley's 'Advanced Professional Method' and later,when he did one of his Sat.morning seminars,I bought the video and the more current Al Stanley's 'Professional Method',which was the updated version.As stated before,I didn't find Ainslie's harness book to my liking,basically since I am not comfortable just assigning numbers to different parts of the past performances and adding them up to see who to look at.I like to get a feel for the race as to how I imagine it will unfold while I'm handicapping.I also have Professor Kusyshyn's 'Harness Racing Gold' which at the time was a good read,but I felt the Stanley book was still superior.Of course I make my own little deviations here and there to adjust the process to what I am comfortable with.One example is that under no circumstances will I ever put any money on a trotter!I just don't trust them to stay flat!

Yeah, I wish there was more harness handicapping discussion around here too. Tough to find. Pandy's board is good, but wish there was more hard-core handicapping discussion like you see on this board for the t-breds.

I went to his site,but didn't notice a discussion board anywhere.

harnessdriver.com -- the Canadian board -- is all picks and gossip, very little handicapping talk.

This place seems to be mainly an ad only for the trainers or drivers listed on the site.But in all fairness I never registered to get into the discussion board to check it out.

Thanks...

Andi,I too am basically refreshing my memory as far as harness handicapping goes.Maybe this isn't the way anymore!I don't know until I try.It's a double-edged sword now that so much more info is readily available for the average bettor,taking some of the edge away I used to,at least,think I had!To me it's not that difficult to pick winners,but you must have the patience and discipline to wait for the proper opportunity,and stick to a solid money management plan!
Hope some of this helps.

__________________

[andicap]

I've been trying Bob Pandolfo's Diamond System for harness and it's very worthwhile if you model which of his categories are winning at various tracks and you insist on value.

Modelling is tricky because tracks can change nightly but I've found harness tracks to be more consistent than the t-breds especially when the weather gets warmer. Winters are rougher with the heavy winds changing etc.

Closers do better at mile tracks and early speed at 1/2 mile tracks. Not always, every night, etc., but generally speaking. This is not a revelation -- most harness handicappers know this, but I have still been amazed at how horses with good closing figs -- according to Diamond -- at M can either win or finish 2nd (for exacta keys) at decent odds.

[offtrack]

Spring cleaning starts soon- looking to claer some library space.
I have the following items available for trade-

Al Stanley's Professional Method- 1993 Classroom guide/book 90 pgs.
Al Stanley's Professional Game Plan - Aprox 45 pgs.
Al Stanley's Harness Handicapping NL - 30 monthly issues

Drop an email message if interested-