How does EQB get it's chart data

[highnote]

Does anyone know the process of how Equibase gets the chart data from the tracks.

I assume each track makes up a chart and then sends the file electronically to Equibase for distribution.

I notice a lot of tracks post their charts on their websites.

Do the tracks charge EQB for their charts? Or do EQB charge the tracks? Is there any money involved? What kind of agreement is there between the tracks and EQB?

If the tracks are willing to send their chart data to EQB then would they also be willing to send it to a competing organization? That's why I'm wondering if there is a fee somewhere in the chain.

js

[chickenhead]

so far as I know, the charts are made by EQB employees on site. EQB does not charge the tracks, EQB in fact pays the tracks in the form of dividends from it's sales...it's all on the EQB website.

It is not clear to me whether the photo finish operation and internal timing is seperate from EQB, or owned directly by them as well...I think it is seperate but could be wrong...but I know the chart calers are EQB employees.

[chickenhead]

(the reason I think it might be seperate is I couldn't find any chart caller who knew how beaten lengths at the finish were calculated exactly..as it's done by the PF guy. I found that surprising enough...don't you think after 30 yrs of calling charts, you might be at least a little curious, and asked at least once?)

[highnote]

so far as I know, the charts are made by EQB employees on site. EQB does not charge the tracks, EQB in fact pays the tracks in the form of dividends from it's sales...it's all on the EQB website.




I'll check out the site for that info. Thanks.

So EQB pays the track dividends for sales.

Did it ever occur to the tracks or EQB that the tracks might be receiving dividends in the form of takeout because handicappers are able to research data provided by EQB? If the data source is taken away, handicappers won't be able to handicap at the same volume level and will therefore bet less. Sales of data won't change, but handle will drop. Then again, a drop in handles never seems to bother tracks. Some tracks have cut off rebate shops and others have raised takeouts -- both probably result in drops in handle.

Can anyone speak on behalf of EQB or the tracks? I'd like to hear both sides of the argument. Just because I have the view of a handicapper does not mean I know everything and that I am right.

[chickenhead]

http://www.equibase.com/about/history.cfm

[wes]

http://www.equibase.com/about/history.cfm



Look like Eqibase would fix things so windows XP 2 could log on to their site.

wes

[highnote]

I checked out more of their site. They are actually a pretty impressive organization. However, they seem geared to sell to the casual fan rather than the serious player.

Here's a quote from their website: "Among the products available are race programs which present handicapping information in visually-appealing and easy to understand formats for new and existing fans."

Another quote: " Since re-launching equibase.com with full e-commerce capabilities in 1999, the company has emerged as a leading provider of value-added information and services to the electronic and interactive marketplace. "

As a serious player, I don't need value added information. I add my own value. I just want the raw data. I don't want to use the same value added information as other people. And I certainly don't want to have to pay for value added information I'll never use just so I can strip out the value added info and keep only the raw data.

What tracks need to realize is that they'll get dividends from me in the form of wagering. But I need the data to make an informed wagering decision.

This is one of the negative aspects of a monopoly or cartel. They control the data and determine how it can be used.

Now, I saw that tracks send charts to Equibase using the eBase software. What isn't mentioned is if money changes hands between EQB and the tracks. EQB sends the tracks a dividend check on sales.

Again, I think tracks or EQB acting as the Sole Industry Database should make basic raw data available to fans. Then tracks will receive their dividends through wagering handle.

Last night, I sent EQB an email about this. No reply yet. If they are really interested in serving racing fans I am sure they will reply.


js

[highnote]

After looking into this EQB stuff a bit more, maybe a handicapper's association is needed more than ever. Equibase is a general partnership between the Jockey Club and the various racetracks associations. Obviously, EQB serves the needs of the Jockey Club and the racetrack associations. EQB's primary concern is not serving the serious handicapper. They want to sell value added info to casual fans.

So maybe what serious handicappes need is an association that will gather chart info from racetracks (in a similar fashion as EQB) and can be accessed by the handicapping association's members. The data would not be intended for resale, but for wagering purposes by the members. Tracks would benefit directly through wagering and perhaps some of the downloading fees could flow back to the track in the form of dividends much as EQB already does.

This would solve the monopoly problem and would not really harm EQB because they are interested in selling value added products. The Handicapper's Association's product would be just raw comma-delimited files. Handicappers would add their own value to the data.

js

[Vegas711]

For $75.00 a month I get from I.T.S.com all the charts in comma delimited form for all the tracks for an entire month. With these I am able to put the data into a program which i custom design.Equibase is the owner of the information so i can only use it for my own use which is fine with me.

[Show Me the Wire]

Vegas 77:

Eqb is the compilier of information in the public domain when it comes to results of a race. The format may be theirs but not the raw data.

[highnote]

For $75.00 a month I get from I.T.S.com all the charts in comma delimited form for all the tracks for an entire month. With these I am able to put the data into a program which i custom design.Equibase is the owner of the information so i can only use it for my own use which is fine with me.


Vegas,

That's fantastic. I'd say it's a bargain, too.

I'm glad you mentioned it. I think I had heard about this data being available from ITS before, but I had forgotten -- or misunderstood.

I figured there had to be something available somewhere. This beats the hell out of parsing HTML charts -- except for the cost.

So much for the idea of handicapper's association where they could have control of their own data. Oh well. All's well that ends well.

js

PS

I assume ITS "cleans" their data, the same way HDW claims they clean their data. For the life of me, I can't understand why Equibase, the general partner of The Jockey Club and Racetrack Associations and keeper of the official database of the industry, puts out data that needs to be cleaned up.

Does that mean HDW's data is cleaner than the official Equibase data? Or am I missing something here?

[Dave Schwartz]

I could be wrong, but I believe that Equibase has an even cheaper deal for charts but they aren't comma delimited.

Dave Schwartz

[highnote]

I could be wrong, but I believe that Equibase has an even cheaper deal for charts but they aren't comma delimited.

Dave Schwartz


From what I've read on this thread and in the TOS on EQB's website, they do have a cheaper deal for charts, but you can't download them. Unless, there is some other deal I haven't read about yet. Which is very possible. I'm trying to read their entire site, but there's a lot to read and not enough time.

Also, with the cheaper chart deal that may not be comma-delimited, if it's in HTML format and significantly cheaper than $75 per month and is available for download per their TOS, then I'd buy it from EQB. I don't mind the extra work of parsing if I can save a lot of $$. However, I'm willing to pay for good quality, consistent data.

EQB has done a lot of good for the industry -- just like Microsoft. However, they are both monopolies and need to be "watch-dogged". Pressure needs to be put on them so that they will continually improve their product and lower their costs when possible. AT&T was a great company in a lot of ways, however, there seemed to be a lot more innovation after they were broken up due to the competition between baby bells. Also, prices have dropped significantly. Had AT&T not been broken up, would phone plans be as cheap today?

On the other hand AT&T provided excellent quality phone service.

[takeout]

I assume ITS "cleans" their data, the same way HDW claims they clean their data. For the life of me, I can't understand why Equibase, the general partner of The Jockey Club and Racetrack Associations and keeper of the official database of the industry, puts out data that needs to be cleaned up.

I don't understand that either.

[Tom]

That ITS deal sounds interesting....at a $1 a day for one track froom the other guys, it mounts up pretty quick. I was paying over a $100 from TM for just a few tracks.

[Vegas711]

I have been using I.T.S for about 3 years i never have had a problem with their comma delimited charts . They do a great job keeping it clean, Their techs are very helpful and responsive. They will answer all your questions.

[highnote]

I have been using I.T.S for about 3 years i never have had a problem with their comma delimited charts . They do a great job keeping it clean, Their techs are very helpful and responsive. They will answer all your questions.


Sounds like a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one. I'm sure I will be signing up. Thanks. -- John

[Tom]

I went to ITS last night and found a $50 a month deal on comma deliminated files, Type I. Less info, I guess, but more than enough to be usefull.

[highnote]

I went to ITS last night and found a $50 a month deal on comma deliminated files, Type I. Less info, I guess, but more than enough to be usefull.


Here's some of their subscription info -- looks like 50/mo gets you comma-delim results and 75/mo gets you comma-delim charts.

Subscription Products
· Comma Delimited Chart Files subscriptions cost $75.00 per month. This price includes access to all comma delimited charts for the current date and the prior 15 days.

The subscription fee is not included in calculating volume discounts.

Any comma delimited charts downloaded from the archive area are not included in the subscription price and will be billed at 75 cents per race card at one track. Volume discounts will apply in this case.

· Comma Delimited Result File subscriptions cost $50.00 per month. This price includes access to all comma delimited charts for the current date and the prior 15 days. The subscription fee is not included in calculating volume discounts.