Chart downloader question

[highnote]

How many people will go out and buy charts comma-delimited charts everyday if Equibase changes to a PDF format and they can no longer parse their HTML charts?

How many people actually download and parse charts using GT's or some other parser?

My hunch is not many. And as my aunt used to say, "It seems like a lotta shit, mess and bother" for Equibase to switch to a PDF format. There must be other reasons. Maybe they just want a better look? Or do you think they really feel they are losing a lot of money. Do they think people are databasing their charts and then reselling handicapping products based on their charts?

What's the real story?

Next question: Is Equibase a monopoly? If so, does it matter?

[Brian Flewwelling]

I am a sinner of a different sect, i use my own downloader:D

When i heard the PDF rumour, there was some mention of getting the other guys on board first, and they would all go to PDF(secure). I took 'they' to mean BRIS, TSN, DRF and others...

Brian

[kenwoodallpromos]

I would classify it as a monopoly as they are the official providers for the racing industry, but it would be tough for anyone else to compete on their entire line because of their longevity and reputation.
Even though I think others can do the variants and speed figures better, they dictate who else they will give information to and what information they will add or subtract from the PP's. They will not make archived daily track's workouts available for sale.
I think the racing data people will only deal with you if they think you are popular enough. That is why they provide the Beyer, Tomlinson, and pars info through contracts with others.
If we on the forum make CJ's ratings popular enough they could put them in the DRF PP's.
Personally it does not matter to me because I would not be a competitor and I do not use speed or other rankings much; in fact I often only use the official programs to bet my track speed win bets.

[highnote]

The Doctrine of Fair Use says that portions of a copyrighted work may be adapted and even distributed without permission of the copyright owner.

A court will look at what the purpose and character of the use was. If the use was noncommercial then the more likely the fair use doctrine will be applied.

If you're using the charts for handicapping and not re-selling them, then the Doctrine of Fair Use might allow you to use them as you want.

I'm certainly no lawyer. But these are interesting legal questions.

An interesting link:

http://cse.stanford.edu/class/cs201/current/Projects/corporate-monopolies/abstract.html

Here is an edited quote from the link:

"How does one quantify the harms of a software monopoly [...] whose power inflates the price to consumers and prevents the onset of higher quality competitors? "

[sjk]

I am a sinner of a different sect, i use my own downloader:D

When i heard the PDF rumour, there was some mention of getting the other guys on board first, and they would all go to PDF(secure). I took 'they' to mean BRIS, TSN, DRF and others...

Brian

They really do need a lesson in anti-trust law.

[Brian Flewwelling]

I would classify it as a monopoly as they are the official providers for the racing industry, but it would be tough for anyone else to compete on their entire line because of their longevity and reputation.

How Long has Equibase been operating? Are they not a new entity as of about 1998, resulting from an agreement between the Jockey Club and DRF, to collect all racetrack data???

Even though I think others can do the variants and speed figures better, they dictate who else they will give information to and what information they will add or subtract from the PP's. They will not make archived daily track's workouts available for sale.
I think the racing data people will only deal with you if they think you are popular enough. That is why they provide the Beyer, Tomlinson, and pars info through contracts with others.

Ken, maybe it is late and you need some sleep. Equibase, NOT DRF, is the topic of this thread... and DRF is not a monopoly... BRIS and TSN, ITS etc compete with them. Equibase supply raw data, NOT speed figs etc.

If we on the forum make CJ's ratings popular enough they could put them in the DRF PP's.


That would be between cj and DRF, but why would either be interested in dealing... use cj's program, you need to buy data from DRF, or from BRIS/TSN. That just encourages folks to buy data and makes those suppliers happy.

Brian

[highnote]

Below is a price list of various products offered by Equibase. Now that they are supposedly switching to a PDF chart format, maybe we can all stop downloading their free HTML charts and just start buying all these products daily. Think of the time savings. Let someone else do the handicapping for us. For only about 300 bucks a month one of these tout services ought to be able to help you turn a profit.

The nice thing about this approach is that it cuts down on the amount of thinking we have to do. Just bet what your product tells you to bet. Hell, what's $300 per month? Besides, what fun is it handicapping a card yourself or doing research anyway. BORING, right? Just get a comfortable chair, a can of beer, a credit card, a fast internet connection and enjoy a day of $2 show bets. What great entertainment!

If this is too much work, save the $300 bucks and just go put it into a slot machine at one of those new-fangled racinos. You can probably even get faster instant gratification by playing online casino games. Why even bother taking the time to download a product or driving to a racino -- just cut right to the chase and play online slots.

Philadelphia Park
Tuesday, 3/22/05 The Walker Group $10.00
Tuesday, 3/22/05 The Turf Club Analysts $12.50
Tuesday, 3/22/05 El Grupo Hernandez(espanol) $10.00
Tuesday, 3/22/05 F.A.S.T. Sheets $10.00
Tuesday, 3/22/05 Valuline $10.00
Monday, 3/21/05 The Walker Group $10.00
Monday, 3/21/05 The Turf Club Analysts $12.50
Monday, 3/21/05 El Grupo Hernandez(espanol) $10.00
Monday, 3/21/05 F.A.S.T. Sheets $10.00
Monday, 3/21/05 Michael Nunamaker $10.00
Monday, 3/21/05 Valuline $10.00

[The Hawk]

I have a question for those with a little more computer knowledge than I have (that's almost all of you):

I notice on Acrobat that they hawk an update which allows one to edit PDF files. Would something like this work to download and store data if/when Equibase does switch to PDF files?

[headhawg]

Hawk,

Most people use Acrobat Reader which is free, and that allows you to read and print -- but not edit -- pdf files. That's what the full version of Adobe Acrobat is for. There are several programs out there -- some for free -- that will take pdf files and convert them to other formats like M$ Word.

So this will make parsing charts more work, but not impossible by any stretch.

HH

[Figman]

I don't know the initial cost but this is available and appears to solve the problem.
http://tinyurl.com/4pp3e

[headhawg]

Here's a couple of links to converter programs:

http://www.pdf995.com

http://www.solidpdf.com/

http://www.verypdf.com/pdf2txt/pdf2txt.htm

http://coolutils.com/product.php?product=PDF2TextConverter&from=AdWords

I have not used any of these so perhaps someone who has can chime in.

[GameTheory]

Here's a couple of links to converter programs:

http://www.pdf995.com

http://www.solidpdf.com/

http://www.verypdf.com/pdf2txt/pdf2txt.htm

http://coolutils.com/product.php?product=PDF2TextConverter&from=AdWords

I have not used any of these so perhaps someone who has can chime in.
You won't be able to parse pdf charts so easily -- you'd still need some program to make sense of it all. Just try it on the DRF pdf's that you can download now -- you'll end up with a scrambled mess....

[headhawg]

GT,

I haven't used any converter programs, so I have no idea how effective they are. If they do a decent job, then I merely meant that the charts may be in a better format to work with.

Yes, the bulk of the work is still in the parsing program like yours.

HH

[Tom]

You can use the Text Xlect tool to copy text and paste it elsewhere. You could do this for a limited amont of data, but you can't copy therunning line because the beaten lenths superscript don't come out in number format.