CHARTGET DOWNLOADER

[stuball]

HEY GUYS

Has anyone here solved the problem with the chartget program cutting

the charts short....I have been have to download 3 or 4 times to get

complete charts......so far I have been unable to download FG charts

for Monday...keeps stopping after 3 races.....I have been downloading for

3 years and would like to continue if someone can solve the problem....

If anyone has the solution to the problem or knows programing well

enough to fix the problem...please e-mail me.....program also strips

the html and gives me a version that will work with Andy's parser...

Andy no longer works on this program....said he does not even have

the source code....if it does not work any more will have to find some

way to get it done....bummer...

Stuball :confused: :(

[cj]

....if it does not work any more will have to find some

way to get it done....
Stuball :confused: :(

Right Click, save target as...

LOL, I'm with you Don, can't get it to work even days later. Some aren't having problems. Anyway, without the source code, there really isn't anyway to troubleshoot.

[stuball]

Hi CJ

If I save as is --will I still be able to run thru parser......also it is a pain to have to load every track individually.....or even to load the ones that are
short....had a problem with tam yesterday and usually do all..

so downloaded tam alone and had to do it 3 times......3rd time it worked

right now am up to date as I do all tracks.....trying to get problem fixed

before it quits completely....just a thought...parser works great for me as

I need files in comma delimited form.....am importing to Foxpro

Your numbers are working great even tho program is wrong....if that makes

any sense....been in the war room with RED..hit a $464 ex at GP.

Yesterday at Tam had $177 ex.....Last night was getting really tired....

played Mnr for awhile ---hit a $182 ex and passed a race where I had

$476 ex and $1000+ tri and $2800 super...had all 4 horses oh yeah

winner was $86 LOL


Stuball

[BillW]

Hi CJ

If I save as is --will I still be able to run thru parser......

Stuball

Stuball,

Run a test and see - it should be pretty easy to verify the output (or it will just blow up??)

Bill

[keilan]

You stated you’ve been downloading for the past 3 years but have you and others ever sent Andy any money to show your appreciation. If not then it’s certainly not surprising that he would stop supporting the people who never supported him.

Stu I’m not singling you out at all cause I don’t know either way, but there are probably lots of guys here that took advantage of Andy’s generosity and now find themselves in a pinch.

Probably not a whole different than the guys profiting off cj’s stuff and conveniently forgetting to send a li’l something. I’ve never understood why some think they are either “entitled to stuff in life” or have the attitude that “hey if he’s gonna offer it then I’ll just take it”.

[Buddha]

I have been having all sorts of troubles. Cant get 60-80% of htem to download completely. Had to go to Equibases site and save them that way, and now am getting an error while trying to run the parser.

[cj]

I thought the parser was supposed to run even if manually downloaded, but I'm not sure about that. Something has obviously changed at Equibase.

[BillW]

I haven't noticed anything here, either in downloading or parsing, although my program pretty much mirrors doing everything manually.

[Buddha]

I thought the parser was supposed to run even if manually downloaded, but I'm not sure about that. Something has obviously changed at Equibase.
Thats what I thought, and i am pretty sure that it had worked before, but is crashing on me now. Let me know if you try it and how it works for you.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Perhaps there are some characters that are fooling the program, making it seem like the end of file, or something unrecognizable makes it stop. Whether it is coinsidence, or was planned to foil the procedures is debatable. I have theories, but I'd rather leave them out of the public forum.

[BillW]

Perhaps there are some characters that are fooling the program, making it seem like the end of file, or something unrecognizable makes it stop. Whether it is coinsidence, or was planned to foil the procedures is debatable. I have theories, but I'd rather leave them out of the public forum.

Yep, never discount the possibility that Equibase reads this forum and does not intend a widely used program such as this to be collecting their charts. :eek:

Bill

[GameTheory]

Perhaps there are some characters that are fooling the program, making it seem like the end of file, or something unrecognizable makes it stop. Whether it is coinsidence, or was planned to foil the procedures is debatable. I have theories, but I'd rather leave them out of the public forum.Is it possible this is actually a firewall issue? Some firewalls, and maybe something in WinXP SP2, actually add headers to HTML pages as they download. That could possibly screw it up. I do not believe it is getting cut off in the downloading, but in the cleanup phase before it outputs the file. In other words, it is downloading the whole file, but then cutting off parts of it because some pattern isn't being matched properly. Although I don't seem to have the exact code that is used in the last available version, I do have code very similar embedded in a program for my own use. I've never seen any problem like this at all, so I don't know what it could be. Anyway, since this whole activity is now in direct violation of the Equibase TOS (as of the last 6 months or so), I feel it is probably not a good idea for me to create a new public version. There are several available general purpose download manager type programs that could be configured to do the same thing anyway.

Keilen -- thanks for the sentiment, but let's not get into a public discussion about who did or didn't send me something. These things were always meant to be free programs, partly because I knew the day would come when they would stop working and I didn't want to feel indebted to keeping them supported forever.

[cj]

My thoughts exactly Steve

[GameTheory]

Yep, never discount the possibility that Equibase reads this forum and does not intend a widely used program such as this to be collecting their charts. :eek:
Never really widely used -- a couple dozen readers of this forum, at most. But as you say, they definitely don't like it and archiving their charts is now explicitly forbidden in their terms-of-service. Of course, you can get essentially the same charts from several other places with no such stated restrictions...

[NoDayJob]

Try using Netscape 7.2, Mozilla Firefox or another commerical browser, and see if that works.

NDJ

[Buddha]

NDJ,

The browser we dont have a problem with. It is the prog that GT wrote.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Is it possible this is actually a firewall issue? Some firewalls, and maybe something in WinXP SP2, actually add headers to HTML pages as they download. That could possibly screw it up. I do not believe it is getting cut off in the downloading, but in the cleanup phase before it outputs the file. In other words, it is downloading the whole file, but then cutting off parts of it because some pattern isn't being matched properly. Although I don't seem to have the exact code that is used in the last available version, I do have code very similar embedded in a program for my own use. I've never seen any problem like this at all, so I don't know what it could be. Anyway, since this whole activity is now in direct violation of the Equibase TOS (as of the last 6 months or so), I feel it is probably not a good idea for me to create a new public version. There are several available general purpose download manager type programs that could be configured to do the same thing anyway.


Well, I did get the HAW 15th chart of the EQB website, about 30 min ago, using Internet Explorer and Win XP SP2, and the 9th race was missing from the chart. I went back again 15 minutes later, and this time it appears.

Strange.

[NoDayJob]

Well, I did get the HAW 15th chart of the EQB website, about 30 min ago, using Internet Explorer and Win XP SP2, and the 9th race was missing from the chart. I went back again 15 minutes later, and this time it appears. Strange.

I downloaded all the E.B. chart files and summary results, for the 15th, @ 5:11 A.M.P.T., and had no trouble. I use my own program with Mozilla Firefox and XP Pro-SP2, however.

NDJ

[Tom]

No problems here. Always works just fine.
Uh oh,,,,just cursed myself!:eek:

[Tom]

I was afraid of this...mine just stoped working too.

That Equibase site is a real loser - nothing on it works very well. Way too slow to be af any value. Tried the save as on chart - forget it. I'll be dead and buried befreo I ever got a whole days worth.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Again using IE & SP2, Earlier I could get more than the 2nd chart on the 16ths AQU card. Now I can't get a response.

Just now checked GP at 7:34pm ET, only get the 1st race.

Something is messed up. Admittedly, I haven't cleaned out all my temporary files in ages, will do that now and see if that helps any.

[sjk]

I was also trying to look up a chart and couldn't get it to load. Maybe they are having problems today.

[Figman]

As late as five minutes ago I have only been able to access the 1st race chart from GP today.It has to be the Equibase site as the TSN charts are readily available today at http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?type=inc&today=on

[Steve 'StatMan']

Agreed. I finally got all of AQU for today, but still found GP the same as you did, and TSN fully updated.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Big Red noted in Off Topic that 4 Racing Websites were hacked today. Perhaps the problems at Equibase are related.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18663

[Tom]

I just got all the charts for the 13th - it took 20 Minutes!!!
I think EB is having problems - each track was agonizingly slow.

[BillW]

Tom and all,

I just downloaded 19 charts from 3/13 in 10 minutes 24 secs. which is 3.17 Mb or about 5Kb/sec on a 56K dial-up - just about max speed. There was 2 unusually long dead spots of 30 to 45 secs. otherwise all was normal.

Bill

[Tom]

All looks normal now...just downloaded the 14th and 15th in 32 seconds flat!

*Whew!*

[Brian Flewwelling]

I have had slow downs and incomplete files for 2 days now. Most of my problems today were with Entries.

last nite at about Midnite EST the site was completely unavailable. Maybe they were hit by 'hackers'.

another possibility is they are doing some upgrading... which always causes instability. I heard a rumour that they were going to change the format of their Charts to .pdf rather than HTML, to render all parsing programs obsolete. :mad: :confused:

Fleww

[sjk]

Usually when I see threads on this subject I just hope they go away quickly.

As I understand it Equibase is owned by NTRA which is supported by the tracks.

It is a safe assumption that people accessing the various forms of free racing data available on the net have bet millions of dollars at these tracks over the years.

It is astonishing that the track owners who indirectly own Equibase would employ people who are intent on biting the hand that feeds them.

[linrom1]

.

I heard a rumour that they were going to change the format of their Charts to .pdf rather than HTML, to render all parsing programs obsolete. :mad: :confused:

Fleww

So, what prevents someone from writing a program that parses non-Equibase files. What prevents someone from writing a program that will parse pdf files.

[Buddha]

It appears to be working for me, keeping my fingers crossed, for mondays and tuesdays charts. hopefully all will be well from here on out.

[BillW]

I'm finally having Equibase problems. The site is not accepting connections @ 11:46 CST :eek:

[Buddha]

yea, it is down here, and someone else i was talking to online said they couldnt access it.

[BillW]

I'm sure it's temporary, just thought it was ironic that the first time this happened to me was so close to others having the "truncated file" problem.

Bill

[GameTheory]

I'm sure it's temporary, just thought it was ironic that the first time this happened to me was so close to others having the "truncated file" problem.It has become apparent that the problem is with them -- I've been checking often (with the browser) the last few days and have seen a whole bunch of charts with missing races, although they all seem to be from the current or previous day's races, so if you wait 24 hours or so to get the charts it will probably be ok...

[BillW]

GT,

I don't doubt it. Their site has always been strange. Long delay to begin d'load of each file - sometimes it times out the Link control of my ppp connection indicating a timing/protocol issue of some sort with their site. I don't think this is related to the problems people are having, but behavior such as this makes it easy to believe that other anomalous behavior is possible.

Bill

[linrom1]

The problem with downloading files appears to be occuring when in the following link:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbChartResultsDisplay.cfm?TRK=AQU&CY=USA&DATE=03/05/2005&STYLE=NTRA

STYLE=NTRA, when STYLE=EQB there is never a problem. So it appears to be a formatting issue.

[thelyingthief]

to the gentleman that asked, "who has sent gt remuneration?"--me, i did, and i found it interesting that gt failed to thank me for it...perhaps i expect too much?

i would like to ask gt to make the code to his parser available, since he will not support it? any changes in format by equibase should not be very difficult to incorporate, i would think. i see in the credits that the parser is based entirely or in part on code distributed by, what is it, the python or the perl org.?

perhaps gt would post a general description of the parsing program, the pieces necessary to make it function, and etc.? i can do the grunt work, as that program is a great time saver, even if i never use the db'ing capability.

tlt

[linrom1]

to the gentleman that asked, "who has sent gt remuneration?"--me, i did, and i found it interesting that gt failed to thank me for it...perhaps i expect too much?

i would like to ask gt to make the code to his parser available, since he will not support it? any changes in format by equibase should not be very difficult to incorporate, i would think. i see in the credits that the parser is based entirely or in part on code distributed by, what is it, the python or the perl org.?

perhaps gt would post a general description of the parsing program, the pieces necessary to make it function, and etc.? i can do the grunt work, as that program is a great time saver, even if i never use the db'ing capability.

tlt

What, if was an Adminstrator of this group I would kick you out of this board. I don't think you know what you're even talking about.

[Tom]

I always wait until the next day to download charts, and only once have I had trunkated files. Ilearned the hard way from TrackMaster, when I used to buy their charts, that fast usually means inaccurate.

[Hammerhead]

I have tried downloading chartget. I do not use it any longer. No problem in downloading all charts from yesterday 3/19th as usual it worked just fine. I don't recall having much of a problem using it. I recall a couple problems pharsing it when there was a strange track that only ran at a fair or at strange distances. Maybe it's all the protection many put on there computer to avoid being bugged or whatever. Wish I had a use for the files, as they are free, or for a token payment to gametheory for taking the time to put the program together.

If it works for this idiot it should work for all.

[MichaelNunamaker]

Hi thelyingthief,

You wrote "i would like to ask gt to make the code to his parser available"

It is my understanding that Equibase will be changing the format of their charts to PDF fairly soon (within a couple of months). So the existing html chart parser does not need any long term maintainance plan since it will probably be completely obsolete very soon.

Mike Nunamaker

[highnote]

i would like to ask gt to make the code to his parser available, since he will not support it? i see in the credits that the parser is based entirely or in part on code distributed by, what is it, the python or the perl org.?

tlt

The programming language GT used may be open source, however, the creative code that GT wrote for those languages belongs solely to GT. The functions and techniques he used to parse the equibase files are owned by him. He has no obligation to post his work.

GT has done a tremendous public service.

I just wish equibase would come out and say publicly whether or not they support this downloading activity. Let's get it out in the open and stop making users of GT software operate like some secret society.

I don't understand why the question of whether or not it is OK to download and parse the files should go unanswered -- or maybe they have been?

Any opinions on this?

js

[MichaelNunamaker]

Hi swetyejohn,

I checked Equibase's TOS a couple of years ago, and saw nothing that would prohibit chartget. That is NOT the case now. Specifically, rule 5 section b states "You understand that information acquired hereunder is provided for use in an online or hardcopy print environment. You agree that you will not download information acquired hereunder with the intent to database it for future use."

This quite clearly forbids things like chartget and parsing the charts to use in practically any way. Heck, I think that even forbids just storing the charts to look at them a couple of months later!

Equibase's terms of service are relatively simple and seem quite clear to me. How much more publicly do you want them to state their position?

Mike Nunamaker

[thelyingthief]

the emphasis was on general discussion. i dont think i anywhere implied he "must" or even "should". i "asked".

by the way, mr. lyn rom? can you imagine which finger im looking at when i read your response? dwell on it, until it becomes clear.

and so,

frolic.

tlt

[Brian Flewwelling]

The programming language GT used may be open source, however, the creative code that GT wrote for those languages belongs solely to GT. The functions and techniques he used to parse the equibase files are owned by him. He has no obligation to post his work.

GT has done a tremendous public service.

I just wish equibase would come out and say publicly whether or not they support this downloading activity. Let's get it out in the open and stop making users of GT software operate like some secret society.

I don't understand why the question of whether or not it is OK to download and parse the files should go unanswered -- or maybe they have been?

Any opinions on this?

js

from Equibase site, Terns of use, par 5:
(b) You understand that information acquired hereunder is provided for use in an online or hardcopy print environment. You agree that you will not download information acquired hereunder with the intent to database it for future use. Equibase, at its sole discretion, will determine if user activity patterns indicate that information is being used for purposes other than handicapping in an online or hardcopy print environment. If Equibase determines that information is being used for purposes other than handicapping in an online or hardcopy print environment, Equibase shall immediately terminate any subscriptions or accounts and no refunds will be issued.
Is Equibase's attitude clear enuff from that??? NO PARSING for the purposes of 'database' ing it!!

On the matter of Open Source Programs: a condition of such the license is that the source code MUST be distributed with the Programs.

Fleww

[GameTheory]

The programming language GT used may be open source, however, the creative code that GT wrote for those languages belongs solely to GT. The functions and techniques he used to parse the equibase files are owned by him. He has no obligation to post his work.

GT has done a tremendous public service.

I just wish equibase would come out and say publicly whether or not they support this downloading activity. Let's get it out in the open and stop making users of GT software operate like some secret society.

I don't understand why the question of whether or not it is OK to download and parse the files should go unanswered -- or maybe they have been?

Any opinions on this?

I believe they have answered that question with a resounding "No, it is not ok with us" by adding new wording to their TOS that specifically forbids using the material from their site (any of their material that you buy from them or otherwise) for any databasing or even simple local archiving. It says the only allowed uses are "online" (which presumably means looking at the charts with your browser directly from their site and not storing it permanently on your hard drive) and "hardcopy" (you can print them out). That's it. (In the past they actually had verbiage that said they aren't designed to be printed, either.)

If they are indeed moving to PDF, that is further evidence that they only want non-electronic/unparsable copies out there. Again, you can always get the same charts (essentially) from BRIS or TSN. I doubt those two will be going solely PDF. And of course, you can always do what they want you to you and buy the charts in comma-delimited form -- data is a lot cheaper than it used to be. (Although the Equibase owned Trackmaster still charges an arm & a leg for charts.) My original issue was that all the information that is in the charts was not actually available anywhere else -- I'm not sure that it still the case, and the BRIS/TSN charts have been beefed up somewhat so they now contain everything the EQB ones do.

As for the parser, I will not be releasing my code. For one thing, the powers that be would probably study it to make sure it didn't work. I believe I have thanked and corresponded with everyone who ever sent me anything, but if I missed anyone (there weren't very many) I apologize. If anyone *really* feels that put out by the march of time and the impending end of the chart parser era, I will even go so far as to offer any money given back to you. This was never meant as a money-making venture, just sharing something I was using for myself. I'm not as broke as I was when I first made the thing so a few bucks does not matter to me anymore.

[GameTheory]

The problem with downloading files appears to be occuring when in the following link:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbChartResultsDisplay.cfm?TRK=AQU&CY=USA&DATE=03/05/2005&STYLE=NTRA

STYLE=NTRA, when STYLE=EQB there is never a problem. So it appears to be a formatting issue.I briefly thought that too, but then also found many examples of the reverse -- all races there with NTRA style, but not with EQB. It appears to cut both ways -- their code is just screwed up somewhere....

[cj]

from Equibase site, Terns of use, par 5:(b) You understand that information acquired hereunder is provided for use in an online or hardcopy print environment. You agree that you will not download information acquired hereunder with the intent to database it for future use. Equibase, at its sole discretion, will determine if user activity patterns indicate that information is being used for purposes other than handicapping in an online or hardcopy print environment. If Equibase determines that information is being used for purposes other than handicapping in an online or hardcopy print environment, Equibase shall immediately terminate any subscriptions or accounts and no refunds will be issued. Is Equibase's attitude clear enuff from that??? NO PARSING for the purposes of 'database' ing it!!

On the matter of Open Source Programs: a condition of such the license is that the source code MUST be distributed with the Programs.

Fleww

I have to say, it is not clear at all. I don't have an subscription, and I don't have an account, so what exactly are they going to terminate?

[highnote]

Hi swetyejohn,

Equibase's terms of service are relatively simple and seem quite clear to me. How much more publicly do you want them to state their position?

Mike Nunamaker

Mike,

Thank you for taking time to answer that question for me. Your response was very helpful.

John

[Brian Flewwelling]

I have to say, it is not clear at all. I don't have an subscription, and I don't have an account, so what exactly are they going to terminate?

I posted that quote from the Equibase site to answer the question: How does Equibase feel about Chartgetters...?

their answer is quite clear " They don't like them "

on the matters of the enforceability of the clause, and the consequences... another problem entirely. i keep getting two copies of Eq...blah blah every week, and wish they would cancel that subscription.


Brian

[Brian Flewwelling]

Most of the posters here are users of CHARTGET, or a similar program, used to automatically download multiple Charts.

I heard a suggestion that Equibase was going to identify such users and block their URL from access.

Do we have folks who view/download charts FROM a URL where there has been NO Charget activity in the past 2 weeks?? IE is there an innocent among us?
and if so, is there still a problem??

Brian

ANSWER: Yes, you dummy Brian, you have a trial cable connection that is a Virgin wrt Equibase.... The errors do occur from that URL.

Damn one gets weird when home alone too long :p

[BillW]

Most of the posters here are users of CHARTGET, or a similar program, used to automatically download multiple Charts.

I heard a suggestion that Equibase was going to identify such users and block their URL from access.

Do we have folks who view/download charts FROM a URL where there has been NO Charget activity in the past 2 weeks?? IE is there an innocent among us?
and if so, is there still a problem??

Brian

ANSWER: Yes, you dummy Brian, you have a trial cable connection that is a Virgin wrt Equibase.... The errors do occur from that URL.

Damn one gets weird when home alone too long :p

Brian,

Wasn't it once said (I misquote :) ) "Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by simple incompetency.) :cool:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Frankly, if there were a reasonably priced plan to cover a large number of tracks, I'd be willing to pay for it. I wouldn't want nor expect the rights to sell the data as is, or in pieces, to anyone. It would be ideal to be able to examine and tabulate statistics using the data for input, and be able to sell those compiliatons. Short of that, it might be in their best interests as well as those who can program/hire programmers, to create and sell programs that would use the data, that they (Equibase) could sell to other subscribers. It would create a market for more downloaded data customers.

Currently, I'm buying the Unlimited Annual DRF Formulator 4.0 files for $995, and I still buy the DRF Simulcast Weekly, but really don't use it much (arrives well after the races are run, it's paper, not comma-delimited data, etc). While there are some nice tools that Formulator provides to analyze past trainer data, but there are lots of things I would like to do (if ever I could find time), and one thing that would help is comma-delimited results data of the results of those races I downloaded. One could then analyze the results of the race with the full PP data and hopefully learn a lot.

Currenly the annual Simulcast Weekly is printed and sent by mail, and I forget the price, is it like rougly $100 a year, and isn't in a format I can't do as much with as I could if it were data I downloaded. Heck, just being able to get the Simulcast Weekly in a PDF Download would be an improvement, rather than waiting a couple weeks by mail. (Please Tom and others, don't jump in harshly on this rather productive thread. We know and understand about the problems of the past. Thanks.)

$1 per card per day for the data just seems way too steep, esp. if it comes with a lot of strings attached on their usage. I may save a lot of PPS for tracks I seldom if ever handicap, buying and saving the hard copy Simulcast Weeklys and saving results chart files to help me with the future analysis in case I ever do need the results and want to take up those tracks, but I'd have more of an interest in a lot of this data if it came as part of a very large volume discount and/or data service. Depending on restrictions, I'd be willing to pay somewhere between the price of the Annual Simulcast Weekly and the Annual Unlimited Plan for comma-delimited data files of all the results from all the races. Perhaps this would expand the market for their data files, and the progamming types would be able to offer/sell programs that access that data files that the customers have downloaded.

[highnote]

Frankly, if there were a reasonably priced plan to cover a large number of tracks, I'd be willing to pay for it. I wouldn't want nor expect the rights to sell the data as is, or in pieces, to anyone. It would be ideal to be able to examine and tabulate statistics using the data for input, and be able to sell those compiliatons. Short of that, it might be in their best interests as well as those who can program/hire programmers, to create and sell programs that would use the data, that they (Equibase) could sell to other subscribers. It would create a market for more downloaded data customers.

I wrote a database program back in about 1994 or 95 that imported BRIS/DRF/HAT comma-delimited past performances. Everyday for a couple of years I bought the $1 dollar files and loaded them into my database. It was very useful to have lifetime pps and workouts, trainer switches, etc. back in the 90's. Then I approaced BRIS about having them offer the program for sale. They requested a copy. They weren't interested. Part of the reason was because the software needed some work. And a bigger reason was because they didn't want people databasing their files.



$1 per card per day for the data just seems way too steep, esp. if it comes with a lot of strings attached on their usage.

This is the problem with monopolies. Of course, breaking up a monopoly might result in higher prices, too.



I may save a lot of PPS for tracks I seldom if ever handicap, buying and saving the hard copy Simulcast Weeklys and saving results chart files to help me with the future analysis in case I ever do need the results and want to take up those tracks, but I'd have more of an interest in a lot of this data if it came as part of a very large volume discount and/or data service. Depending on restrictions, I'd be willing to pay somewhere between the price of the Annual Simulcast Weekly and the Annual Unlimited Plan for comma-delimited data files of all the results from all the races. Perhaps this would expand the market for their data files, and the progamming types would be able to offer/sell programs that access that data files that the customers have downloaded.

My friend uses a database program for UK racing. He is able to subscribe to a service that sells him all the UK charts going back to the early 90's. He can do very sophisticated queries. Add his own speed ratings and print past performances.

There is absolutely no reason we can't have something like that here.

The problem may be one of a monopoly. With only one company collecting and distributing the data, they can name their price for the data, who they will sell the data to, and what can be done with the data.

You can't really boycott them, because you need the data. However, they make the data expensive so that it is not affordable to buy lots of it and they don't really offer volume discounts. Or do they?

js

[Brian Flewwelling]

$1 per card per day for the data just seems way too steep, esp. if it comes with a lot of strings attached on their usage.

Equibase offers a 'Subscription' to their old charts, back to 1999. Price is $15 per month, and download as many as you want.

Just do not 'database them' ... what ever that means:D

Brian

[highnote]

Equibase offers a 'Subscription' to their old charts, back to 1999. Price is $15 per month, and download as many as you want.

Just do not 'database them' ... what ever that means:D

Brian


Databasing is really a broad term. In a sense, all my old charts I cut out of the newspaper and put into a binder make up a database. Maybe Equibase means an electronic database. Well, I could scan my old newspaper charts and store them in an electronic database. Would that be forbidden?

I don't see the problem with taken raw data and putting it into a database for personal use.

I can understand that if you take the raw data and put it into a database and sell it, then there could be a problem.

However, BRIS or HDW or TrackMaster or whoever it is that sells comma-delimited data usually adds some value to it, so that it is not just plain result charts data they are selling. Adding value is the key. But for someone like me to download an HTML chart and throw it into EXCEL or WORD or Internet Explorer should not be a violation of copyright laws. Seems like fair use to me.

[GameTheory]

Databasing is really a broad term. In a sense, all my old charts I cut out of the newspaper and put into a binder make up a database. Maybe Equibase means an electronic database. Well, I could scan my old newspaper charts and store them in an electronic database. Would that be forbidden?

I don't see the problem with taken raw data and putting it into a database for personal use.

I can understand that if you take the raw data and put it into a database and sell it, then there could be a problem.

However, BRIS or HDW or TrackMaster or whoever it is that sells comma-delimited data usually adds some value to it, so that it is not just plain result charts data they are selling. Adding value is the key. But for someone like me to download an HTML chart and throw it into EXCEL or WORD or Internet Explorer should not be a violation of copyright laws. Seems like fair use to me.
It isn't a violation of copyright law, which is why they add those extra restrictions to their TOS. As ShowMeTheWire has noted, they are trying to apply contract law -- i.e. you agree to their terms of usage when you download their products.

[Brian Flewwelling]

Databasing is really a broad term. In a sense, all my old charts I cut out of the newspaper and put into a binder make up a database. Maybe Equibase means an electronic database. Well, I could scan my old newspaper charts and store them in an electronic database. Would that be forbidden?

the expression used by Equibase is "to database it" is the part that confuses me. i think i know what they are saying, but there is no such verb as database. The noun database has several different meanings, so the derived verb is undefined, so databasing is undefined, and may not be allowed under Securities Law, or may not be within the Permissable Sexual norms .

:D

Brian

[highnote]

It isn't a violation of copyright law, which is why they add those extra restrictions to their TOS. As ShowMeTheWire has noted, they are trying to apply contract law -- i.e. you agree to their terms of usage when you download their products.


Ahhhh. Good point. You're right again, as usual. :)

[GameTheory]

Ahhhh. Good point. You're right again, as usual. :)I'm always right.

[BillW]

Databasing is really a broad term. In a sense, all my old charts I cut out of the newspaper and put into a binder make up a database. Maybe Equibase means an electronic database. Well, I could scan my old newspaper charts and store them in an electronic database. Would that be forbidden?


John,

I don't think the wording is intended to be clear, but actually to have a very broad interpretation. This allows their lawyers to go after anybody they deem to be a threat.

Bill

[highnote]

I'm always right.

And funny, too! :D

[Tom]

I used to pay $1.00 for each chart from Track MAster and used the Track Profile program to store them - fromthere, I took the data and put it into Ecxel, but the problem is that thier data is not very accurate at all and many days it is just unusable. They do not designat between inner andmain turf courses, they do not read the race conditions correctly in many cases - especialyl at NYRA tracks. It will put out something like Claiming 8850 for a $20,000 claiming race. Somehow, it misreads the prices in the conditions that offer allowances for state-breds. Point is, for a buck a day for 9 charts, I do not find it acceptable that I have go in a manually make corrections. That and the fact that just the act of downloading them is very time consuming - read:slooooow.

I finally gave it up as unreasonable pricing.

PS..I only ever used the data for personal use - never used it by-pass paying for pps or anything else. So I say screw 'em.