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View Full Version : LA DERBY PREVIEW: Value to be found..


DerbyTrail
03-11-2005, 08:21 AM
Saturday's sophomore stakes schedule takes us to New Orleans and San Francisco for the Louisiana and El Camino Real Derbies: two events that have histories of identifying classy winners on the Derby Trail and beyond.

2003's edition of the Gr. II Fair Grounds meet highlight produced Kentucky Derby winner Funny Cide, 3rd that day (subsequetly awarded 2nd), and was won by Peace Rules who went on to his gutsy show placement at Churchill.

In 1996, eventual Derby winner Grindstone left the Big Easy a winner, having topped local hero Zarb's Magic on his way to the roses for D. Wayne Lukas. Another Louisiana legend that copped Derby laurels here and at Louisville was the mercurial Risen Star (1988).

THE LOUISIANA DERBY, Gr. II, $600,000, 8.5f, All carry 122

1.) SORT IT OUT (Baffert/Albarado) 6-1: Stonerside acquisition makes first start under Baffert after surprising Grocer, Scrappy and New Yorker in the Whirlaway. May need this after being kept him off the worktab for weeks following the move from Big Apple. NY-bred is 4 for 5 at the trip, draws rail and Ridin' Robby for late run, but speed-favoring oval has us leaning against today. Recall Baffert got first LA Derby win last year with Wimbledon after a number of frustrating visits.

2.) STORM SURGE (Stewart/Bailey) 6-1: Overbrook stalker-presser continues to be winless past 8f after admirable Risen Star try fell short. Formful Storm Cat colt has maintained level for Dallas during 9 race career, but doesn't appear to be developing further. Waters get deeper for sophs from here on out, and while addition of Bailey can't hurt, we think several here are moving by him at this point in the season.

3.) HIGH LIMIT (Frankel/Dominguez) 5-2: X-factor colt appears from Frankel barn after scoring easily in both career starts at DEL while under the care of Tony Dutrow. Buzz from Palm Meadows on this one is deafening, and fact he is ML favorite means noise was heard all the way to New Orleans! Adds significant 7# today, but with Proud Accolade sick, may be lone speed at circuit where that works wonders (think Peace Rules). Frankel angles all positive into this, and Maria's Mon colt figures prominently under Dominguez if you care to swallow the low tab.

4.) REAL DANDY (Asmussen/Meche) 8-1: Yankee Victor bay started
career as Asmussen barn after-thought, but has moved past stablemates to earn trainer's respect, appreciation. Turned string of near-misses under lesser guidance into win-place efforts under capable Donnie, including fireworks exacta finish under Scipion in last month's Risen Star. Steady developer was targeted for this spot originally by 26% (meet) conditioner, and is one of several off-pace runners to choose from in event that may not offer appropriate set-up.

5.) INDY STORM (Zito/Melancon) 20-1: Another week, another stake, another Zito prospect... Farmer dropped $750,000 at KEE Sept. '03 sale for this A.P. Indy colt who won first out in the Calder slop at 8f New Year's Eve. Late runner failed to factor in pair of GP ALW's since, but Nick said this week he expects a "different horse" Saturday. Barn is on fire, strip reg Melancon climbs on, and pony is sole ML "big price" at 20-1. Makes sense for exotic tickets hopping to land a tote buster.

6.) WALLSTREET SCANDAL (Violette/Bejarano) 10-1: Read the Footnotes connections make another try on the main with recently successful GP turf ALW winner. Cross-out Champagne flop from BEL rail, and realize Mt. Livermore chestnut is 4/2-2-0 with pair of stakes placements. Fired Boynton Beach bullet on Monday earning plane fare to New Orleans, and Violette lures Bejarano to 10-1 play as added benefit. May run more forwardly with horsy Houdini aloft, and is a viable option to those seeking value throughout the money slots.

7.) SCIPION (Biancone/Stevens) 4-1: Biancone's Slow-developing A.P. Indy son may have benefited from Risen Star collapse when scoring here under Stevens last month. Gets acid test here with some added competition and pace scenario that may not be as inviting. Will have to come home faster than :32.4 today, and we're doubting that.


8.) VICARAGE (Pletcher/Velasquez) 10-1: "Other" Pletcher entrant became solo artist with Accolade defection, and MSW/ALW winner acquires services of Johnny V. thanks to it. Nice Vicar colt from Dogwood has failed to menace in pair of graded stakes tries, but "karma moves" here 3rd of the break for first two turn try. For Pletcher-Velasquez fans.

9.) KANSAS CITY BOY (McPeek/Blanc) 5-1: One of our favorite Class of '05 colts got wide berth manager wanted when abandoning last week's Fountain of Youth for this. Holy Bull runner up and Lecomte show pony (shy a neck and head) removes the blinkers to try new stalking-pressing tactic under Blanc. Education timing looks right as McPeek charge is sitting pretty in Derby earnings race and may be just arriving at start of peak cycle. Doesn't have to win today, but expect another move forward by our top Derby outsider.

SELECTIONS:

1. Kansas City Boy
2. High Limit
3. Wallstreet Scandal
4. Real Dandy
5. Storm Surge

jacklantern
03-11-2005, 01:07 PM
...why your 2/3 picks are swapped (Wallstreet Scandal and High Limit) on the thorograph site (the only other board I frequent).

DerbyTrail
03-11-2005, 05:56 PM
...why your 2/3 picks are swapped (Wallstreet Scandal and High Limit) on the thorograph site (the only other board I frequent).

jack..

my fault.. when I copied and pasted the preview from the original, it had Wallstreet and High Limit that way.. I changed it when i posted here but forgot to change it when i posted at TG..

keilan
03-11-2005, 08:03 PM
SELECTIONS:

1. Kansas City Boy
2. High Limit
3. Wallstreet Scandal
4. Real Dandy
5. Storm Surge


I'd say you're in for a tough a day :)

Tuffmug
03-12-2005, 12:04 AM
1. High Limit (look at that 7f work, better Beyers at two than most have at three)
2. Sort It Out ( a warrior)
3. Wallstreet Scandal (love that turf to dirt angle and the big improvement he's shown as a three year old)
4. Vicarage (tightened up nicely by Pletch)

Tuffmug
03-12-2005, 12:16 AM
1. High Limit (look at that 7f work, better Beyers at two than most have at three)
2. Sort It Out ( a warrior)
3. Wallstreet Scandal (love that turf to dirt angle and the big improvement he's shown as a three year old)
4. Vicarage (tightened up nicely by Pletch)

Will play an exacta and tri box with these 4. No keys for me in these prep races as any of the 4 I've picked could jump up and win this.

JPinMaryland
03-12-2005, 11:13 AM
this race looks really difficult to call and therefore a fun one to play. Seems like most want to throw Scipion out. Im all for that. What about KC Boy? He found himself in a dominated rail position last time out but I thought he was game. Have no idea how succcessful horses are at changing their strategy from E/P to Closer or whatever they are trying to do with him.

HOw does the track down there play? Watched several races yesterday. And what of the pace scenario which horses are likely to set the pace?

46zilzal
03-12-2005, 04:03 PM
Sort it Out and High Limit to be there late, but that might be asking too much of these babies this early although the rail animal certainly knows how to come on LATE.

Don't know HOW much Wall Street might have improved either.

46zilzal
03-12-2005, 05:19 PM
...why your 2/3 picks are swapped (Wallstreet Scandal and High Limit) on the thorograph site (the only other board I frequent).

Intersted since I had never seen the famed THOROGRAPH......Talk about UNECESASARY INFORMATION OVERLOAD!...Why not tell us what they had to eat each day? or what their bowel movements were like? Beyond a few factors you just confuse yourself.

JPinMaryland
03-12-2005, 05:50 PM
Cant get enuf information, 46. Odds dropped on him as we got closer to post time. 3-1, 5-2 and 2-1. I think he started morning line at 5-2. Does Hi Limit travel by truck or jet? Hmm, time zone change not an issue.

DerbyTrail
03-13-2005, 02:14 PM
SELECTIONS:

1. Kansas City Boy
2. High Limit
3. Wallstreet Scandal
4. Real Dandy
5. Storm Surge

I'd say you're in for a tough day :)

Keil..

NOT TOO tough a day as it turns out, eh?

KCB (x)
Limit (1st)
WS Scan (4th)
Real Dandy (5th)
Storm (3rd)

Feel good about getting the pace scenario correct.. With no Proud Acc, Limit was TOTALLY lone speed as suggested, and Dominguez is as good as they come in that situation. I couldn't envision a pace that would give Scipion, Sort It Out, etc.. any shot to get up.. For whatever reason, the LA Derby seems to regularly be won on the front end.

Felt bad that I left Vicarage out of the pix unfortunately, but had nice things to say about him in his blurb.. 3rd off layoff/2 sprints->route angles.. Plus the dreaded "other" horse angle (even though Proud Acc didn't run).. He busted up my own exotic tickets which were focused on Limit, KC and Wallstreet in the top 2 slots..

keilan
03-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Hey Derby Trail

Obviously I miss interpreted your initial post. I thought your (1.) horse “Kansas City Boy” was your key horse and I felt that this horse wasn’t sitting on a good effort today. Cj and I played him fairly heavily in his last start though.

My comment was solely based on the above premise that he was your key horse. I meant no harm and I read/enjoy your analysis after I have made my selections. Other than Kansas City Boy and you know I don’t care much for Real Dandy that our selections weren’t so far different.

Below are my selections for ‘road to the derby contest”


LaDerby --- all $200 spent here

$1 = $90--- super 8/1-3-5/1-3-5-6-7-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-9

$1 = $90--- super 1-3-5/8/1-3-5-6-7-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-9

$10 xbox --- 3-8

OTM Al
03-13-2005, 06:51 PM
Don't know what to think about this result yet. High Limit ran a very strong race considering he was coming off a long layoff and it was only his 3rd race. However, I don't think his competition was very good and he did not receive much of a challenge. Don't know what to do other than take a wait and see.

DerbyTrail
03-13-2005, 07:09 PM
Don't know what to think about this result yet. High Limit ran a very strong race considering he was coming off a long layoff and it was only his 3rd race. However, I don't think his competition was very good and he did not receive much of a challenge. Don't know what to do other than take a wait and see.

Al,

Don't they say that when horses run in the same places all the way around it's a somewhat questionable result? Ala War Emplem-Proud Citizen-Perfect Drift three years ago.. Totally paceless affair.. I am impressed that he ran two sub :24 quarters followed by two sub :25 quarters.. And he finished in :30+.. That DOES bode well for him moving forward.. (Then again, he could be Master David, Version 2.0)..

OTM Al
03-13-2005, 07:26 PM
Yeah, just have no feel for that race at all. Just didn't think there was much in the way of quality there, so it makes it hard to judge the effort because if he is very good, he did exactly as he should have, but he could be not so good and get exactly the same result. The DRF artcle about all the big guns being at this race (the trainers) but with no real bullets I think was pretty appropriate. Can anyone still truely think Scipion is a contender?

frankfig
03-13-2005, 09:39 PM
I keep hearing everyone say High Limit didnt beat anybody,he had an easy lead, speed fav track, no competition. Who are the big 3yos he has to beat ? Lost in the fog , is very very good- ZITO ,has a couple of good ones but i dont think there are any standouts out there and i think this horse has a big shot to beat the other big 3yos. As far as Sweet Catomine if she faces Summerly i will be all over assmussens filly.

JPinMaryland
03-14-2005, 01:58 AM
Scipion was easy to throw out. But there were some decent horses. Sort it Out beat Galloping Grocer and a few others at AQU but he was far back today. KC Boy was liked by few commentators but he must have driven the connections nuts when he went wide on the first turn, again. I thought keeping him back was supposed to correct that?

I still dont have a feel for how the track down there is supposed to play. It's long stretch is supposed to favor closers. Perhaps it was a tactical mistake to let the winner steal an easy lead but everyone seemed to be aware that this would likely happen.

BUt what about Vicarage? Maybe he moves forward after this...

Tee
03-14-2005, 02:47 AM
As far as Sweet Catomine if she faces Summerly i will be all over assmussens filly.

Let's just say that Summerly & Sweet Catomine both end up in the Oaks, along with say Sis City & Splendid Blendid et all.

Still on Summerly?

frankfig
03-14-2005, 08:25 PM
I hope they all line up and they make Sweetcatomine 3or4/5 . because YES i will take SUMMERLY. I hope everybody really believes Julio and they think sweetcatomine is the BEST filly to EVER live.Give me a break. Am i the only one that thinks she is a little overrated ? i know she wasnt fully cranked ,but D id she win that easily against an average allowance field at best. Maybe i am wrong , it would not be the first time.

Show Me the Wire
03-14-2005, 08:53 PM
Julio promised not to "shake her anymore, the other times he "shaked" her inadvertently.

keilan
03-14-2005, 08:55 PM
frank -- she won without being asked

rastajenk
03-15-2005, 06:59 AM
That happens all the time in those short fields out west. :) This filly still has some provin' to do.

keilan
03-15-2005, 09:49 AM
That happens all the time in those short fields out west. :) This filly still has some provin' to do.


All 3yo's having proving to do, regardless of field size though some would agree field strength is a better measuring stick.

Valuist
03-15-2005, 01:24 PM
I give Summerly almost no chance against Sweet Catomine or Sis City. She has had two races now with absolutely no other early speed to contend with. Those slow pace/speed up late races invariably end up producing an overbet horse. Sooner or later she's going to have to cope with a solid pace.

Speed Figure
03-15-2005, 01:32 PM
I give Summerly almost no chance against Sweet Catomine or Sis City. She has had two races now with absolutely no other early speed to contend with. Those slow pace/speed up late races invariably end up producing an overbet horse. Sooner or later she's going to have to cope with a solid pace.
I feel the same! Sweet Catomine is far better than Summerly.