How can anyone take her seriously?

[46zilzal]

Coulter is spinning her downfall as a new kind of terrorist-war McCarthyism. "People are hysterical about speech right now," she told The Washington Post's Howard Kurtz. "Everyone's comments are being taken out of context and wildly misinterpreted." At the risk of further de-contextualization, here are some of Coulter's past comments:

"[Clinton] masturbates in the sinks."---Rivera Live 8/2/99

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'"---Hannity & Colmes, 6/20/01

The "backbone of the Democratic Party" is a "typical fat, implacable welfare recipient"---syndicated column 10/29/99

To a disabled Vietnam vet: "People like you caused us to lose that war."---MSNBC

"Women like Pamela Harriman and Patricia Duff are basically Anna Nicole Smith from the waist down. Let's just call it for what it is. They're whores."---Salon.com 11/16/00

Juan Gonzales is "Cuba's answer to Joey Buttafuoco," a "miscreant," "sperm-donor," and a "poor man's Hugh Hefner."---Rivera Live 5/1/00

On Princess Diana's death: "Her children knew she's sleeping with all these men. That just seems to me, it's the definition of 'not a good mother.' ... Is everyone just saying here that it's okay to ostentatiously have premarital sex in front of your children?"..."[Diana is] an ordinary and pathetic and confessional - I've never had bulimia! I've never had an affair! I've never had a divorce! So I don't think she's better than I am."---MSNBC 9/12/97

"I think there should be a literacy test and a poll tax for people to vote."---Hannity & Colmes, 8/17/99

"I think [women] should be armed but should not [be allowed to] vote."---Politically Incorrect, 2/26/01

"If you don't hate Clinton and the people who labored to keep him in office, you don't love your country."---George, 7/99

"We're now at the point that it's beyond whether or not this guy is a horny hick. I really think it's a question of his mental stability. He really could be a lunatic. I think it is a rational question for Americans to ask whether their president is insane."---Equal Time

"It's enough [to be impeached] for the president to be a pervert."---The Case Against Bill Clinton, Coulter's 1998 book.

"Clinton is in love with the erect penis."---This Evening with Judith Regan, Fox News Channel 2/6/00

"I think we had enough laws about the turn-of-the-century. We don't need any more." Asked how far back would she go to repeal laws, she replied, "Well, before the New Deal...[The Emancipation Proclamation] would be a good start."---Politically Incorrect 5/7/97

"If they have the one innocent person who has ever to be put to death this century out of over 7,000, you probably will get a good movie deal out of it."---MSNBC 7/27/97

"If those kids had been carrying guns they would have gunned down this one [child] gunman. ... Don't pray. Learn to use guns."---Politically Incorrect, 12/18/97

"The presumption of innocence only means you don't go right to jail."---Hannity & Colmes 8/24/01

"I have to say I'm all for public flogging. One type of criminal that a public humiliation might work particularly well with are the juvenile delinquents, a lot of whom consider it a badge of honor to be sent to juvenile detention. And it might not be such a cool thing in the 'hood to be flogged publicly."---MSNBC 3/22/97

"Originally, I was the only female with long blonde hair. Now, they all have long blonde hair."---CapitolHillBlue.com 6/6/00

"I am emboldened by my looks to say things Republican men wouldn't."---TV Guide 8/97

"Let's say I go out every night, I meet a guy and have sex with him. Good for me. I'm not married."---Rivera Live 6/7/00

"Anorexics never have boyfriends. ... That's one way to know you don't have anorexia, if you have a boyfriend."---Politically Incorrect 7/21/97

"I think [Whitewater]'s going to prevent the First Lady from running for Senate."---Rivera Live 3/12/99

"My track record is pretty good on predictions."---Rivera Live 12/8/98

"The thing I like about Bush is I think he hates liberals."---Washington Post 8/1/00

On Rep. Christopher Shays (d-CT) in deciding whether to run against him as a Libertarian candidate: "I really want to hurt him. I want him to feel pain."---Hartford Courant 6/25/99

"The swing voters---I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster. "---Beyond the News, Fox News Channel, 6/4/00

"My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that's because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism."---MSNBC 2/8/97

"You want to be careful not to become just a blowhard."---Washington Post 10/16/98

[Steve 'StatMan']

Not wanting to get in a discussion, but of all the quotes that are dated, every one of them was before 9/11/2001.

[46zilzal]

B.S. is still B.S. no matter when uttered

[JustRalph]

Some of them are way out of context .....but I would have to say I agree with most........

[sq764]

B.S. is still B.S. no matter when uttered
You could post 10 times the amount of quotes exactly like this for almost every single politician.. So how can you take any of them seriously either?

How about the intelligence we have heard over the past election year:

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
--Ted Kennedy


"The fact is that we wouldn't be in Iraq if it weren't for Democrats like Senator Kerry."
--Howard Dean

"We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as."
--John F. Kerry


"When John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk. Get up out of that wheelchair and walk again."
--John Edwards

[zuki]

I agree with you JustRalph even though I'm not a local.

[Suff]

Some of them are way out of context .....but I would have to say I agree with most........


To Disabled Vet, "Its people Like you that Caused us to lose the war."


Selective Patritiotism. I talked about it last week. . Great example right here. Desacrate a veteran? No problem, I agree with you polticallly you may say whatever you want... with impunity.

Love it when I'm right.

[GameTheory]

To Disabled Vet, "Its people Like you that Caused us to lose the war."


Selective Patritiotism. I talked about it last week. . Great example right here. Desacrate a veteran? No problem, I agree with you polticallly you may say whatever you want... with impunity.

Love it when I'm right.I'm no Coulter fan, but that still isn't fair. It is taken out of context so we have no idea why she said that to the vet. (Although a good guess would be that he came home and began protesting the war, but again we don't know, and of course we are taking for granted that Coulter actually did say that, which may not be true either.)

[Tom]

To Disabled Vet, "Its people Like you that Caused us to lose the war."


Selective Patritiotism. I talked about it last week. . Great example right here. Desacrate a veteran? No problem, I agree with you polticallly you may say whatever you want... with impunity.

Love it when I'm right.


Gee, didn't Kerry do that in the 70's? Called them murderers? What's the difference? Anne didn't try to run for president. I would think you would expect more from Kerry, being a senator and all. Or do you not take HIM seriously?

[Tom]

"I did not have sexual realtions with the women, Miss Lewinski!" (fist pound-pound-pound).

Howard Dean - (paraphase) - The only way the republicans would ever have this many african-americans in the same room would be if the invited the kitched staff.

[sq764]

To Disabled Vet, "Its people Like you that Caused us to lose the war."


Selective Patritiotism. I talked about it last week. . Great example right here. Desacrate a veteran? No problem, I agree with you polticallly you may say whatever you want... with impunity.

Love it when I'm right.

Wasn't it JFKerry that admitted he killed innocent civilians in Nam (or wherever he thought he was).. Then years later, called those same soldier killers?

You can't be taken seriously..

[JustRalph]

Somebody is taking her seriously enough to put her on the cover of Time Magazine................

http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2005/1101050425_400.jpg

[Bobby]

Coulter just seeks attention. She's like the only conservative public figure who's a woman and looks decent. That's $$$$$ for her.

She can say those kinda things and getta away with it.

[ljb]

46,
In answer to your question. The faux folks believe anything they are fed by her and the rest of the neocons. Many of us have a mind of our own and do not take her seriously. Keep educating, some will learn.

[Tom]

If you listen to Randi Rhodes, not only does Anne sound like a "Rhodes" scholar, so does Ljb! The ridculous crap that comes out of her mouth is an insult to trailer park trash everywhere. Her and Jeannine Garafola make a half wit loook smart. Two classless losers wtih foul mouths and no brains. Catch the Air America special on HBO...you won't believe the low-class crap AA calls "talent."

[46zilzal]

http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/archive/stories/index.html

[hcap]

Attention Coulter fans, your girl is rapidly falling in the "Does Ann Coulter make a positive contribution to American political culture?",Times poll, along with her leader-preznit "mandate man"

Results so far...

yes-17%
no- 83%
don't know-9%

votes so far-46,000

the preznit is arround 44% dissaproval.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, etc.

[Equineer]

Somebody is taking her seriously enough to put her on the cover of Time Magazine................

http://i.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/2005/1101050425_400.jpgMy sources tell me that Fox News will soon replace the O'Reilly No-Spin Zone with a new neo-con rantathon, Ann Coulter's Tow-Away Zone, aptly named as a tribute to her monstrous Rhino-Boot feet. :D

[ljb]

Read the Time magazine article on Coulter. Time suggested she is the right wing's Michael Moore. Personally I think that is an insult to Moore. Also noted this gal had a southern sweet and refined lady for a mother. One of them gals that could wade through a lake of gators without raising a ripple. This combined with having two older brothers that would cut her no slack, indicates Coulter's rude behaviour comes from a classic case of what Freud called Penis envy. Now for the positive slant. Many years ago I had a brief association with just such a gal and they are HOT!
We should also read the Time article on Delay and some of his shennanagins. What a loser this one is!

[Lefty]

Gee, when I read the thread's title I thght you were talking about Hillary.
Anyway, I'm not surprised you libs just don't get Coulter. She's funny and she means to be. She throws laugh bombs; everyones ladened with an underlying truth.
Prob need an EXample here: "Clinton masturbates into the sink" See, class, that's outrageous, but not nearly as outrageous as some of things we know that Clinton actually did. So it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to think hwe would actually do it.
Remember that business with Lewinski and the Cigar?
Ann, you the gal!

[46zilzal]

this broad is not funny in the least ....the word pathetic comes to mind repeatedly

[Lefty]

I thght yo libs didn't like the word broad? Oh, that's for everybody else. Neeever mind!

[46zilzal]

I thght yo libs didn't like the word broad? Oh, that's for everybody else. Never mind!

Must be very comforting to KNOW that the world is simply BLACK and WHITE. As the rutabaga oft says "Yur eeeeether witn us or with the tersits!"

[NoDayJob]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

D**m, my new hernia truss just broke! $250.00 down the drain.

NDJ

[lsbets]

Now I've never been a fan of Coulter, and the only national radio guy I ever leave on for more than 5 minutes is Glenn Beck, but I have to laugh looking at the ratings that Air America has put up in the last year. Seems to be no interest in left wing talk radio at all, even in a liberal city like NY. So, post any poll you want to, the left is losing the commentator battles in a huge way. My personal opinion on the reason is the guys on the right are more entertaining, the left wig talking heads tend to be pretty snobbish and condescending.

[46zilzal]

there are LOTS of shades of gray out there as well.

[Lefty]

gee, 46, I've read your statement about Ann and I didn't see even 1 shade of grey. Once again, guess that's for everybody else.

[ljb]

Yeah Lefty but did you read my statement? She's hot! :D :D :D

[46zilzal]

gee, 46, I've read your statement about Ann and I didn't see even 1 shade of grey. Once again, guess that's for everybody else.

nope she is gray....dark dark gray

[Lefty]

lbj, yep she's hot but not for the reasons you give. And you just had to rip Delay again. Why don't you read about Harry Reid and his buds, hnmmm? Cause you're not interesed in the truth. You just throw bombs to be throwing them. Ann throws bomb and when they explode the truth is revealed. The last thing you libs wanna hear.

[46zilzal]

l they explode the truth is revealed. The last thing you libs wanna hear.
this woman RARELY checks her facts before uttering some really silly things

[Lefty]

46, a pretty pathestic comeback, you ask me. And you say Ann is pathetic? LOL

[Lefty]

46, how do you know she rarely chks her facts? Yuh wanna give me an example of when she was factually wrong?

[46zilzal]

She was interviewed on CBC Newsworld and TOLD THE INTERVIEWER, a Canadian newsman for many years, that Canada sent troops to Vietnam. He tried to correct her, but she knew better. Now who would know better, the news anchor who had worked many years on the job or this lady?. She told him he was wrong and she would get back to him on that. Fellow is still waiting for response. Would help to be prepared before you shoot off your mouth.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/sticksandstones.html

[Lefty]

46, yuh might wanna tell that to Maureen Dowd, Al Gore, Hillary, Bill, Ted Kennedy and a host of others.
I don't think Ann has a radio show but Laura Ingram does and she gets lots more listeners than Air America. Maybe it's because libs have no sense of humor or just can't see through all that grey.

[ljb]

Lefty,
here is one example. In an attempt to show what she calls the New York Times disregard and comtempt for what real Americans care about, She said the New York Times took two days to decide Dale Earnhardt's death was important enough to make the front page. When in fact Dale Earnhardt died on Feb. 18th 2001 and it was reported on the front page of the New York Times on Feb. 19th 2001.
This was a conclusion in her book "Slander:Liberal lies about the American right."

[46zilzal]

46, yuh might wanna tell that to Maureen Dowd, Al Gore, Hillary, Bill, Ted Kennedy and a host of others.

why?

[Lefty]

46, boy you're fast. I was editing when you fired back. Why? Do I have to explain? Guess so. Nah, think about it, it'll di yuh good.

[ljb]

um er Lefty,
Did you get a chance to read my reply?

[Lefty]

lbj, if she's wrong once in awhile about dates and things,(and I don't know that she is) nothing i can do about it. She's still funny and right about the big picture. Funny you know so much about conservative's and absolutely nothing about the foibles of your lib commentaters and politicians. Strange indeed.

[ljb]

lbj, if she's wrong once in awhile about dates and things,(and I don't know that she is) nothing i can do about it. She's still funny and right about the big picture. Funny you know so much about conservative's and absolutely nothing about the foibles of your lib commentaters and politicians. Strange indeed.
But not near as strange as your refusal to accept the truth about your neocon spokespeople. Check it out, she lied in her books many times. I have just posted one such incident.

[ElKabong]

She was interviewed on CBC Newsworld and TOLD THE INTERVIEWER, a Canadian newsman for many years, that Canada sent troops to Vietnam. He tried to correct her, but she knew better. Now who would know better, the news anchor who had worked many years on the job or this lady?.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/sticksandstones.html

You mean "troops" like the Canadian "troops" in Vietnam shown in pictures in this link below??

http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum5/34656.html

Or "troops" as in providing Intel support for the U.S.?

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/

--Canada's record on the truce commissions was a partisan one, rooted in the presumption of Hanoi's guilt and Saigon's innocence and designed to discredit North Vietnam while exonerating South Vietnam from its obligations to uphold the Geneva Agreements. Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam.---snip

I feel yet another "shades of gray" post coming from zil.....

[Lefty]

lbj, yep you posted one such incident and Elkabong has proved you wrong again. Gee, that must be getting very disconcerting by now.

[Lefty]

lbj, please stop making yourself look even more foolish by referring to every conservative as a neocon. Look up the word neocon.

[kingfin66]

You guys should make a deal Lefty. Sec and ljb stop saying neocon and you stop saying Dem Libs. How 'bout it guys?

What's funny to me is that Ann Coulter and Bill Maher, two people from totally opposite sides, actually hang out together and party. Meanwhile, back at the boards it's a different kind of party.

[Lefty]

kingfin, you miss my point. A lib is a lib. An old conservative is not a new conservative. I just want these guys to understand words. As Rush has said many times; words mean things.

[Dan Montilion]

The key is to not take anybody seriously... Thus one is never disapointed.

Dan Montilion

[Equineer]

You mean "troops" like the Canadian "troops" in Vietnam shown in pictures in this link below??

http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum5/34656.html

Or "troops" as in providing Intel support for the U.S.?

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/

--Canada's record on the truce commissions was a partisan one, rooted in the presumption of Hanoi's guilt and Saigon's innocence and designed to discredit North Vietnam while exonerating South Vietnam from its obligations to uphold the Geneva Agreements. Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam.---snip

I feel yet another "shades of gray" post coming from zil.....Your misguided out-of-context quote from Canada And The Vietnam War (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/), Victor Levant's summarization of Canadian involvement in the Vietnam War, once again stamps you as a neo-reader.

Levant's historical summarization, published in the The 1998 Canadian & World Encyclopedia, is actually an indictment of deception by successive Liberal and Conservative governments that covertly aided the U.S. while officially telling Canadians that "Ottawa was an impartial and objective peacekeeper, an innocent and helpful bystander negotiating for peace and administering aid to victims of the war."

In fact, Canada did not send military combatants to Vietnam, and even Ann Coulter later defended/excused her statement by saying she meant the 10,000 Canadians who joined the U.S. military during the Vietnam War.

Furthermore, your link to photos posted on the Perspectives Board by Slaol-121 suggest you are easily misled.

Here is the source of Slaol-121's photo used to argue that Canadian military troops fought with the U.S. in Vietnam (http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/fourth_dimension/2004/jan04/28_fd_e.htm).

As the Canadian National Defense article explains, the pictured troops were dispatched to Vietnam the day after the Paris Peace Accord was ratified on January 27, 1973, and the Canadians were a contingent of the International Commission of Control and Supervision whose mission was to monitor the mutual cease-fire provisions of the Paris Peace Accord.

The picture was taken later in the winter of 1973. As the caption beneath the photo explains, the Canadian cease-fire monitors are examining a Viet Cong soldier killed during an alleged cease-fire violation in Xuan Loc.

Simply put, Elkabong, you seem to relish being duped! :)

[hcap]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal...
She was interviewed on CBC Newsworld and TOLD THE INTERVIEWER, a Canadian newsman for many years, that Canada sent troops to Vietnam. He tried to correct her, but she knew better.Canada's official position was as a "non-participant. No way did Canada "send" troops".

There were unofficial connections, but that was not what annie was babbling about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Vietnam_War

"As the war escalated, relations between the two nations deteriorated. The lowest point was in April 2, 1965 when Pearson gave a speech at Temple University in the United States which called for a reduction in the bombing of North Vietnam. When a furious President Lyndon B. Johnson met with Pearson, he grabbed the much smaller Canadian by the shirt collar, lifted him off the rug, and yelled, "You pissed on my rug!" After this incident, the two men somehow found ways to resolve their differences over the war--the fact that they both met together in Canada two times afterward--one of them being Expo '67 during LBJ's whirlwind visit to the country."

[hcap]

Lefty,
lbj, yep you posted one such incident and Elkabong has proved you wrong again. Gee, that must be getting very disconcerting by now.
I don't think using kabong as gospel is very wise. Might be better off using faux.
At least they don't choose a horse dressed as zorro as nicks. :sleeping:

[ljb]

lbj, yep you posted one such incident and Elkabong has proved you wrong again. Gee, that must be getting very disconcerting by now.
Lefty,
You had better check this out. Elkabong has done nothing like this.

[ljb]

kingfin, you miss my point. A lib is a lib. An old conservative is not a new conservative. I just want these guys to understand words. As Rush has said many times; words mean things.
Again we find points of agreement. A neocon is not an old conservative. An old conservative had concerns about fiscal balance, they were concerned about states rights and individual rights, they did not believe in massive deficits. However the neocons gave up all these beliefs for their personal gain.
Glad to hear Rush is recovering, is he beggining to sound coherent or do the meds still mess up his "words"?

[Lefty]

lbj, can't you just respond without trying to smear somebody. I guess you just like to live in the low levels. Rush knows the meaning of words and that's more than I can say for you. Let me hear you snide remarks when someday you're in great pain, my man. Your posts continually prove that a lot of libs really have no empathy or sympathy for anyone. My wife takes prescription drugs for pain, so I understand why Rush had a problem and give him credit for kicking his addiction, but you are just a heartless stooge for the liberal blogs.

[ljb]

Lefty,
You are the one that brought up the drug addict as support for your argument. You also failed to reply to my definition of a neocon. Your attempts at trying to spin are failing, please try to stay focused.

[Lefty]

lbj, you are one sad man. Calling a man in pain a drug addict only proves it.
Do you even know what a neocon is? I don't think so.

[Lefty]

lbj, what q? I only read a statement not a question. And, BTW, sadly don't get to listen Rush much anymore, but he's still smarter than any lib I ever heard of. And you say he was incoherent? Did you ever listen? Prob. not, you're just a parrot for liberal blog. So go get your talking points i'm off to the racebook.
When you say "do the meds still mess up his words" you once again show what an uncaring unfeeling sad excuse for a man you are. He had a prob he dealt with it. You supported a pres who took advantage of women yet you denigrate a man who faced a prob and beat it. In a lib movie star, you'd praise the same action.
Now to the RB.

[hcap]

Not every repub is one with ann. National Review fired her for saying that the scenes of some people in Arab countries celebrating the terrorist attacks deserve the following..

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

[ElKabong]

equeer,

Nothing was taken out of context. If you can't read and comprehend that Canadians were helping us, whether it was armed Canadian's fighting in combat, OR, Canadian "DELEGATES" providing Intel and Espionage support for the U.S., that's your problem. :)

Canada was more than a willing partner in the war whether Mckeown wants to admit it or not. In fact, you and other whining Libs attack the US for supporting Saddam in the past by supporting him with arms and/ or trained military personnel or Intel....Yet, when Canada did the same for the US in the Vietnam war, you give it no recognition. I guess it doesn't fit your arguement, eh?

Hmmm..Bias is a bitch, man. Esp when you're exposed on it.

Now that I've yanked your chain again, come up with another 30 paragraph response that goes nowhere.

[Suff]

..

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

When she says "we".....does she mean her and her Sister? Or her and a Few friends?

Or is this just typical of the "I was picked on as a Kid" mentality....and they use the Sons & Daughters of Blue Collar America to "get even" with the big bad world?

Probably the latter. Like George Bush when he said "Bring It On"!

man, that still makes me laugh.. IVY LEAGUE SILVER SPOON PUSSY BOY SAYING "BRING IT ON"..... OMG,,,,I CAN BARELY CONTAIN MY LAUGHTER.

If George Bush is a texas tough guy........Texas gut some splaining to do.

[46zilzal]

Like George Bush when he said "Bring It On"!
man, that still makes me laugh.. IVY LEAGUE SILVER SPOON PUSSY BOY SAYING "BRING IT ON"..... OMG,,,,I CAN BARELY CONTAIN MY LAUGHTER.
If George Bush is a Texas tough guy........Texas gut some splaining to do.

Have not laughed so hard in a good while

[46zilzal]

What's funny to me is that Ann Coulter and Bill Maher, two people from totally opposite sides, actually hang out together and party. .
Then I suppose all the "talk" is mostly scripted for enterntainment purposes

[Equineer]

equeer,

Nothing was taken out of context. If you can't read and comprehend that Canadians were helping us, whether it was armed Canadian's fighting in combat, OR, Canadian "DELEGATES" providing Intel and Espionage support for the U.S., that's your problem. :)

Canada was more than a willing partner in the war whether Mckeown wants to admit it or not. In fact, you and other whining Libs attack the US for supporting Saddam in the past by supporting him with arms and/ or trained military personnel or Intel....Yet, when Canada did the same for the US in the Vietnam war, you give it no recognition. I guess it doesn't fit your arguement, eh?

Hmmm..Bias is a bitch, man. Esp when you're exposed on it.

Now that I've yanked your chain again, come up with another 30 paragraph response that goes nowhere.Anyone with minimal comprehension skills will recognize that Levant's Canadian encyclopedia article (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/) is an indictment of Ottawa's deceptions and hypocrisy during Vietnam, just as a consensus of American historians now indict the Vietnam deceptions and hypocrisy of the Johnson administration.

And your photo link (http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum5/34656.html) is absolute proof that you are easily duped. The actual URL for your linked photo points to the official source article published by the Canadian Department of National Defence (http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/home_e.asp), and both the article and caption beneath the original photo (http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/fourth_dimension/2004/jan04/28_fd_e.htm) identify the Canadians as cease-fire monitors investigating an alleged violation of the Paris Peace Accord.

In other words, you were chumped without mercy on the Perspectives Board by Slaol-121's misleading photo link.

Finally, your banal name-calling reveals whose "chain" is tangled in knots of gullible frustration.

Stolen Honor (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=144820&postcount=22) has yet to win a race since you confused him with a neo-con infomercial, and it appears he has been retired or put down after breaking down on the track. Let's combine your penance for banal name-calling with homage to Stolen Honor for his fifty-six lifetime starts... get down and give the old Colonel your best quivering effort to complete fifty-six pushups. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

man, that still makes me laugh.. IVY LEAGUE SILVER SPOON PUSSY BOY SAYING "BRING IT ON"..... OMG,,,,I CAN BARELY CONTAIN MY LAUGHTER.

If George Bush is a texas tough guy........Texas gut some splaining to do.

Is that the same level of toughness displayed by Massachusetts icon Edward Kennedy, who ran away from a dying woman in his submerged automobile one day, pissing his pants all the way home?

We have a volunteer armed forces. Who would you like to send into combat? Rich guys who aren't trained, and aren't part of the volunteer armed forces?

If the sons and daughters of blue collar America don't want to face the risk of combat, then they shouldn't have joined the armed forces to begin with...

[ElKabong]

Equeer,

You didn't comment on the other two photos of Canadians....selective nowdays aren't you?

Good thing we had some Canucks ON OUR SIDE providing INTEL and espionage duty during the Vietnam war.... Otherwise we'd have to say they didn't offer help in the field.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/


Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam.

The herbicide "Agent Orange" was tested for use in Vietnam at CFB Gagetown, NB. US bomber pilots practiced carpet-bombing runs over Suffield, Alberta and North Battleford, Sask, before their tours of duty in SE Asia--snip

"Uh, buh bye"

[Kreed]

Go to Saratoga & get some fresh air. You seem way too harsh against
the core American. The last time I checked on it, AVERAGE applies to
MOST Americans, blue collar or not. Most of these guys drive old cars
& do not make $250K. So why pick on them (even if its on YOUR board)
when they do us all a Great Service? I am really surprised at you.

[Lefty]

ann was making a point. I know too much for you to get.
And Suff, Bush, when he said "Bring it on." was standing tall for this country, but guess you libs would rather just hand it over to the terrorists?

[Equineer]

Equeer,

You didn't comment on the other two photos of Canadians....selective nowdays aren't you?

Good thing we had some Canucks ON OUR SIDE providing INTEL and espionage duty during the Vietnam war.... Otherwise we'd have to say they didn't offer help in the field.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/


Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam.

The herbicide "Agent Orange" was tested for use in Vietnam at CFB Gagetown, NB. US bomber pilots practiced carpet-bombing runs over Suffield, Alberta and North Battleford, Sask, before their tours of duty in SE Asia--snip

"Uh, buh bye"The other two photos are simply two more examples of your astounding gullibility. :)

The Canadians at the URL source for the 1st photo (http://www.vwam.com/vets/allies/canadians.html) and the 2nd photo (http://www.vwam.com/allies.html) are identified as foreign members of the U.S. military.

Indeed, the host site for the photos, Veterans With A Mission, is actively dedicated to reconciliation between Americans and the surviving citizens of present day Vietnam. The motto of Veterans With A Mission is: "Dedicated To Bringing Healing, Restoration And Renewal To The People Of Vietnam."

Here is how Veterans With A Mission summarizes Canadian enlistments in the U.S. military: "At a time when the Canadian forces were being reduced the Vietnam War afforded some Canadians youths an opportunity to join the U.S. forces and to acquire skills they would never have received in Canada, such as learning to fly or repair helicopters. Although some joined to fight communism in Vietnam, a good number joined for personal reasons, adventure, and some merely because of nothing better to do."

Instead of remaining hopelessly adrift in the Texas cerebral abyss, you should consider enlisting for duty (http://www.vwam.com/index.html) in the Veterans With A Mission "February-March 2006 Reconciliation Tour & Habitat For Humanity project and the VWAM's June-July 2005 Humanitarian Medical & Clinic Construction project teams." :)

[PaceAdvantage]

Go to Saratoga & get some fresh air. You seem way too harsh against
the core American. The last time I checked on it, AVERAGE applies to
MOST Americans, blue collar or not. Most of these guys drive old cars
& do not make $250K. So why pick on them (even if its on YOUR board)
when they do us all a Great Service? I am really surprised at you.

This coming from the guy who claims to vacation in the Hamptons....LOL

[Kreed]

Yes its true Mike I like edgy stuff. East Hampton-BridgeH-even, when very
obliging, with OPEN BARS, etc entertainments, I even went to WEST HAMPTON.
(i dont admit that easily -- WH is kinda like sorta OK ... its like Bar Band - a
Very Good one, Versus U2. Yeah, the BarBand is danceable, but U2 ..well, what
can I say (except U2 just should give a young band (The Killers) a chance to
get recognition. Mike, I love "the" Hamptons, but I really love BELMAR, NJ,
(Tropical Pub is Very Edgy) --- and now, Rehobeth Beach (Delaware). I like lots
of things, but I dont ignore the Hamptons either.))))))

[ElKabong]

Here is how Veterans With A Mission summarizes Canadian enlistments in the U.S. military: "At a time when the Canadian forces were being reduced the Vietnam War afforded some Canadians youths an opportunity to join the U.S. forces and to acquire skills they would never have received in Canada, such as learning to fly or repair helicopters. Although some joined to fight communism in Vietnam, a good number joined for personal reasons, adventure, and some merely because of nothing better to do."

)

Equeer,

And then you have the Canadians providing Intel and Espionage support for the U.S. ! God bless em for their help! :)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/

Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam. ...

[Equineer]

Equeer,

And then you have the Canadians providing Intel and Espionage support for the U.S. ! God bless em for their help! :)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/1588/

Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam. ...Poor Elkabong, you have elected to expose yourself again.

In earlier exchanges, you convinced us that you were a gullible fool, chumped by misleading photos that wouldn't dupe most sixth-graders.

Now you are back, quoting from Victor Levant's encyclopedia article, which is an indictment of Ottawa's deceptions and hypocrisy while professing a policy of neutrality to Canadians and the world at large.

When you say, "God bless em," you challenge us to decide whether you are morally corrupt or just plain stupid.

If you comprehended Levant's meaning, you are morally corrupt for blessing systematic deception and hypocrisy.

On the other hand, if you failed to comprehend Levant, you are just plain stupid.

Which is it, Elkabong, are you morally corrupt or just stupid?

====

Here is the portion of Levant's article that you pruned to beg the current question: are you morally corrupt or just stupid?

"During the years 1954 to 1975 Canada served on 2 international truce commissions and provided medical supplies and technical assistance. Canadian diplomats were involved in negotiations between Washington and Hanoi and successive Canadian governments, both Liberal and Conservative, maintained that Ottawa was an impartial and objective peacekeeper, an innocent and helpful bystander negotiating for peace and administering aid to victims of the war. However, Cabinet papers, confidential stenographic minutes of the truce commissions as well as top-secret American government cables revealed Canada to be a willing ally of US counterinsurgency efforts.

Canada's record on the truce commissions was a partisan one, rooted in the presumption of Hanoi's guilt and Saigon's innocence and designed to discredit North Vietnam while exonerating South Vietnam from its obligations to uphold the Geneva Agreements. Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam. Canadian commissioners shielded the US chemical defoliant program from public inquiry, parlayed American threats of expanded war to Hanoi, and penned the reports legitimating both the rupture of the Geneva Agreements and the US air war over North Vietnam. Ottawa would later assert that these actions were necessary to counter-balance the activities of the Eastern bloc countries with whom they shared membership on the truce commissions."

[ElKabong]

Now you are back, quoting from Victor Levant's encyclopedia article, which is an indictment of Ottawa's deceptions and hypocrisy while professing a policy of neutrality to Canadians and the world at large.

."[/I]

No, Equeer, I'm pointing out that Canada was a willing participant in the Vietnam war and in alliance with the US...Their people were of great help.

"Canadian delegates engaged in espionage for the US Central Intelligence Agency and aided the covert introduction of American arms and personnel into South Vietnam while they spotted for US bombers over North Vietnam"

I'll post that as many times as it takes. It certainly gets under your skin so that's cool by me :D . Canadians were helping us afterall. If the cbc has a problem with that, cool!

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-1413-9127/conflict_war/vietnam/clip6

--The sensational 1971 leak of confidential Pentagon documents sheds light on Canada's position on, and activities in, Vietnam. A McGill University professor has obtained portions of the Pentagon Papers that he says prove Canada's complicity in the war. snip

And for those thinking of moving to Canada b/c of the USA suddenly being "warmongers", ya won't have to worry about immediate employment in times of war....Mfgrs in canada are more than willing to supply warheads and materials for combat to the US (esp in the Vietnam era). Don't believe me, believe the cbc, lol.

http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-71-1413-9128/conflict_war/vietnam/clip7

Canadian manufacturers and the Canadian government are involved in filling American defence contracts for shipment to Vietnam. Sam Noumoff of Project Antiwar says that Canadian manufacturers often play dumb about the final destination of certain materials, but in many cases they are well aware of where products are being sent. snip

[Tom]

Is that the same level of toughness displayed by Massachusetts icon Edward Kennedy, who ran away from a dying woman in his submerged automobile one day, pissing his pants all the way home?

We have a volunteer armed forces. Who would you like to send into combat? Rich guys who aren't trained, and aren't part of the volunteer armed forces?

If the sons and daughters of blue collar America don't want to face the risk of combat, then they shouldn't have joined the armed forces to begin with...

Man oh man, when you hit that sweet spot, that ball is gone!
Only a lib could complain that a VOLUNTEER army is unfair! That has to be the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. And coming form out resident libs, that is saying something!:D

Teddy "the trout" Kennedy and John "the traitor" Kerry are bottom of the barrel and rightful role models for the reality-challenged.
Who would anyone rather have leading our nation in time of war.....Teddy-boy or W? Proven leader or proven loser?

[46zilzal]

Teddy "the trout" Kennedy and John "the traitor" Kerry are bottom of the barrel and rightful role models for the reality-challenged.

Real objectivity

[Lefty]

46, the facts are in on these guys so why do we have to pretend their fit for govt?

[ElKabong]

Hmm, maybe this is a reason why Canada's govt has stayed on the sidelines during the Iraq war. Many stories/ links of both Martin and Strong are @ the bottom of the article. Martin owned 5% of Cordex..

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover042205a.htm

by Judi McLeod, Canadafreepress.com
Friday, April 22, 2005

The Canadian company that Saddam Hussein invested a million dollars in belonged to the Prime Minister of Canada, canadafreepress.com has discovered...................

According to the today’s New York Sun, "the next chapter in the United Nations crisis may erupt over U.N. investigator Paul Volcker’s membership on the board of one of Canada’s biggest companies, Power Corporation, since a past president of the firm, Canadian tycoon Maurice Strong, is now tied to the oil-for-food scandal."

The missing facts are: Not only are Volcker and Strong hooked with the ties that bind to Power Corporation Inc., a company under investigation in the oil-for-food scandal, Prime Minister Paul Martin was launched into the business world with Canadian Steamship Lines by Paul Desmarais’s Power Corporation Inc. and his predecessor Jean Chretien’s daughter, France is married to Paul Desmarais’ son, Andre Desmarais.--snip

[Suff]

Man oh man, when you hit that sweet spot, that ball is gone!
Only a lib could complain that a VOLUNTEER army is unfair! That has to be the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. And coming form out resident libs, that is saying something!:D

?


Tom I know your witty. And I know you work a white collar Job. But sometimes I do wonder how bright you are. The poor disportionately volounteer for service because of the economic and education benefits it offers. Going to War is the downside. People with much opportunity, and economic power infrequently volounteer. And when they do, battlefield positions are rare. If that's your definition of equitable contribution to the Nations defense... That is the stupidest thing I've heard.

[lsbets]

Suff, you are right when you say that more poor people volunteer for the military because of the opportunities they get there that they might not have otherwise. However, when you say battlefield positions are rare, I think you are pretty off base. From what I have observed, people joining for opportunity tend to go into support jobs that translate into careers outside of the military. When you look at the infantry, armor, and artillery units, they consist of a lot of middle class white guys looking for adventure. And, last time I checked, infantry, armor, and artillery are battlefield positions. Of course, this time, plenty of support units come into direct contact with the enemy on a daily basis, which goes to show that everyone in the military is liable to come under fire.

[Suff]

Suff, you are right when you say that more poor people volunteer for the military because of the opportunities they get there that they might not have otherwise. .

Thats all my intial point was..That the current structure lends itself that Poor people do most of the dying in war. Your right, I don't know enough about command structure and Deployment tactics to know who dodges bullets by Rank.

lately, I'm leaning towards a National Civic Duty obligation for all Americans

Not like Isreal which forces all Residents to do at least One Year in The military.. But have the Govt come up with a list.

Military
Peace Corp
Social Services
United Way
Army Corp of Engineers
Red Cross


and make the list long... and all Residents are required to do ONE YEAR of Civic duty before they're 30. Of course it will have major opposition, and it may be logisticially impossible. But its something to consider.

[Kreed]

Yeah a National Civic Duty thing seems reasonable, but NOT if its a military
job. If Civic keeps its usual meaning, then yes, everyone should do something
that helps others, and both me & my wife volunteer with Asphalt Green, a
community project in nYC. Its my wife's Solange's 2nd year & my 3rd, but its
fun. PS: In Israel all the Hasidic deeply religious Jews do NOT serve in its
military; They are exempt from duty. Its Israel's equal to the USA's elite
exemptions: Congressmen's sons & daughters & wealthy folk, as depicted
by Michael Moore in jest.

[Tom]

Tom I know your witty. And I know you work a white collar Job. But sometimes I do wonder how bright you are. The poor disportionately volounteer for service because of the economic and education benefits it offers. Going to War is the downside. People with much opportunity, and economic power infrequently volounteer. And when they do, battlefield positions are rare. If that's your definition of equitable contribution to the Nations defense... That is the stupidest thing I've heard.

That is a compliment, coming from the guy who accused the POPE of being a child molester! BTW, wasn't BOSTON the ground zero for the problem with alter boys? Maybe it's the neighborhood and not the Church, eh? ;)

[Suff]

That is a compliment, coming from the guy who accused the POPE of being a child molester! BTW, wasn't BOSTON the ground zero for the problem with alter boys? Maybe it's the neighborhood and not the Church, eh? ;)

Yea ok Tom, (aka Albert Einstien), Boston's Pedophile's. Gotcha. Good point. About as articulate as an all Volunteer Military is equitable, and any other view is "the stupidest thing you've ever heard?

As far as Pope John Paul & This new guy, Bendict, yes, they were both complicit in serial molestation of young boys. Guilty. And paid 100's of Million of Dollars in punitive damages.

[Lefty]

Gee, what to do. The libs don't like the draft and don't like the volunteering thingy either so wonder if they have a solution for defending this country? Don't know what the hell it could be.

[Suff]

Gee, what to do. The libs don't like the draft and don't like the volunteering thingy either so wonder if they have a solution for defending this country? Don't know what the hell it could be.

Albert the 2nd.... Look up three posts.

[ljb]

Gee, what to do. The libs don't like the draft and don't like the volunteering thingy either so wonder if they have a solution for defending this country? Don't know what the hell it could be.
The first thing we have to do is get the neocons out of Washington. Simple question, simple answer.

[Suff]

The first thing we have to do is get the neocons out of Washington. Simple question, simple answer.

besides,,, what are you going to do with these guys. The Point is getting MORE of America into the Military. And lefty comes back we don't like an Army. Funny. Like a cartoon talking to these guys. Tooo much/

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's some simple math for you "More America" folks.

What are the percentage of "Rich Guys" in America? What are the percentage of "Working Class Blue Collar" guys in America?

You come up with those percentags yet? Once you have them, check them against the percentages of "Rich Guys" and "Working Class Blue Collar" guys in the armed forces, and get back to me....

[Lefty]

suff, you have no solution just more insults. What's your friggin' solution. Maybe it's draft only the rich guys. Yeah, that's it. You are like your dem buddies in Washinbgton, no solutions just whining.

[Suff]

suff, you have no solution just more insults. What's your friggin' solution. Maybe it's draft only the rich guys. Yeah, that's it. You are like your dem buddies in Washinbgton, no solutions just whining.

I believe I suggested a mandatory Civic contribution by all Americans. With the Military at the TOP of the List. And I believe all I did was point out that the current system is inequitable....and it was refered to as "The stupidest thing someone ever heard" & somehow associated my Politics with the Point. Although I don't see the corilation. I think the current system of staffing the Military is dsyfunctional? That is a "Liberal" point of view? I see Panel's and Panel's of Retired Generals say the same thing. Its a non-poltical view point. It's a strategic and functionability issue.


I'm suprised I was called on the carpet for it. I figured many people that see our current Military a little stretched may have agreed with me.

I did'nt expect to hear all the Liberal, and whining, and Ted Kennedy stuff. Its irrelevant. To me anyway. Maybe you guys see it different. That makes me stupid? Or a whiner? Because I'm interested in the Functionability and the Demograhics of our National Defense?

Lay off the Hannity and Rush. They make money at it. That's thier "shtick"

Stop sheeping.

[Suff]

Here's some simple math for you "More America" folks.

What are the percentage of "Rich Guys" in America? What are the percentage of "Working Class Blue Collar" guys in America?


People with the Money & Grades, + the Social structure to attend College.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Guesstimate

87% of all Kids with an HONEST choice between College or the Military Choose College.

87% of Kids with an HONEST choice between WAL-MART and the MILITARY
Choose the Military.

Factimate

1 out of every 20 new jobs in America is a WAL-MART Job.

[Lefty]

lbj, another non-post. What the hell does it mean? Nothing. Take the Conservatives out of Wash and you still have either a draft or volunteer army. So once again, spare us.
Suff, so what do yoir guestimates mean? That everybody's not rich? That there will always be a working class? That some will fight and others do not? That some will never rise beyond Walmart? Those are just the facts of life unless you have some grand scheme to change them.

[Suff]

Those are just the facts of life unless you have some grand scheme to change them.

Oh I have schemes. Believe me. If its scheme's you want, I'm your Guy.

Let me go upstairs and get my Notebooks.....

[Lefty]

I can't wait. Maybe a new way to Utopia or how to make socialism work. I'm all atwitter...

[Suff]

Oh I have schemes. Believe me. If its scheme's you want, I'm your Guy.

Let me go upstairs and get my Notebooks.....

Lefty.. Your gonna love this one. Do you have your Glass's on? Because I don't want you to miss a word of it.


I got it from some people you respect. Rich people! Matter of fact, it comes from the most Successful & Profitable Business Models in The Country.

The ENN EFF ELL.... National Football League.

Where the worse you do, the more you stink.. THE MORE YOU GET!!

If you stink.. You get the First Round Pick. And if your new(immigrant)? Fahhget about it!! They give you a bunch of first rounders...

And if you really stink, and no one comes to your games? Or Watch's you on TV?
fahh get about it... They'll share they're TV revenue with you.

You can't lose. Its all about making it "Fair"...and "even" for everyone in the game.

It works great for the Rich Guys. Fantastic. Because not only does it REWARD you if you perform poorly. If You do really well! And excel! You go to the back of the line.....You pick last!!.

And if you make all kinds of Money.... I mean mega profits!! and you able to afford a ABUNDANCE of ASSETS! They TAX YOU... Its called a LUXURY TAX. They take that and give it to the Teams that don't have it as good as you.

And just to be sure the system will work, They get the Government to Write special legislation for themselves. And for laws that our currently on the Books, Like the Taft-Hartley act, ... No problem there either, The Government wil just EXEMPT you from that law!! he he.. Isn't this great Lefty!! Its like? Like? Whats the word I'm looking for? SOCIALISM!!!
But you gotta be rich to play. These kind of idea's are only for the Stinking Rich. If I find merit in them, I'm a commie. lol... I love when I have fun.


So if were to use the RICH GUY rules, The FAT CAT model. Poor People Get Harvard Admission, Rich people go to Suffolk County Community College. And when people get to the Top... We stack the deck against them. Like the Rich guys do now. We make it easier for the guys at the Bottom, than at the TOP... We make it "Fair and Even!!"..

to much fun...gotta stop.

[Lefty]

I'm sorry, suff, but you're not making much sense. Let me reread it, but don't think a closed society like the NFL has anything to do with realife.

[Lefty]

suff, reread it and ya wanna stack the deck against rich guys. The guys that mostly get there because they're smarter or they work harder. I think it smacks of Communism. And it's not a new idea and it doesn't work.
Besides, what's the old saying, take all the money, redistribute it and it will all go back to the same darn pipples in a short time.
Capitalism works better'n anything ever tried. It's not perfect, never will be, but it's still the best. Everybody in this country has an equal opportunity and if some of us blow it, then that's the way it is. Everybody that's rich did not start that way and many many many came up from the bottom.

[ElKabong]

.

The ENN EFF ELL.... National Football League.

Where the worse you do, the more you stink.. THE MORE YOU GET!!

If you stink.. You get the First Round Pick.



And if you make all kinds of Money.... I mean mega profits!! and you able to afford a ABUNDANCE of ASSETS! They TAX YOU... Its called a LUXURY TAX. They take that and give it to the Teams that don't have it as good as you.




So if were to use the RICH GUY rules, The FAT CAT model. Poor People Get Harvard Admission, Rich people go to Suffolk County Community College. And when people get to the Top... We stack the deck against them. Like the Rich guys do now. We make it easier for the guys at the Bottom, than at the TOP... We make it "Fair and Even!!"..

to much fun...gotta stop.


Damn, where to begin....

first, EVERY team in the nfl gets a "first round pick". Not just "the really bad" teams. If your point is "the worse you are the better position in the draft you have", then yes. True...But the better managed franchise always has teh upper hand. Dallas in the 70s, 90s, and New england today are prime examples.

second, there is NO luxury tax in the nfl. Salary cap, yes. Luxury tax, no.

third, GWB wan't exactly super wealthy when he bought into the Rangers (talking baseball franchise now, as opposed to points 1 and 2). Neither was Comer Cottrell at the time. Buy low, sell high. Smart people do it.

[Secretariat]

Everybody in this country has an equal opportunity and if some of us blow it, then that's the way it is. Everybody that's rich did not start that way and many many many came up from the bottom.

Lefty,

Can you document the number of those born into wealthy familes who had the opportunity for a better education, and the number of those who had doors opened versus those in the lower, and middle class who arose out of those ranks to join the wealthy, or is this anecdotal on your part?

For example, what percentage of wealthy children dissipated to the lower class, or middle class, versus what percentage of poor children rose to the ranks of the wealthy? I would be interested in those figures. If indeed equal opportunity exists, and the wealth of the family you are born into plays no role on a child's oportunity or success I would be interested in seeing some statistical data backing up your claims.

[PaceAdvantage]

People with the Money & Grades, + the Social structure to attend College.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Guesstimate

87% of all Kids with an HONEST choice between College or the Military Choose College.

87% of Kids with an HONEST choice between WAL-MART and the MILITARY
Choose the Military.

Factimate

1 out of every 20 new jobs in America is a WAL-MART Job.

What am I missing? This doesn't answer my question at all. I'm looking for the proportion of "rich guys" in society compared to "middle class blue collar guys" and then comparing that ratio with "rich guy/mid class/working class guy" in the all-volunteer US military.

All you guys shouting how inequitable the current system is should have these stats at your fingertips, since you're all so sure of yourselves on this matter. I'm too lazy to do your work for you....

[Suff]

Damn, where to begin....

first, EVERY team in the nfl gets a "first round pick". Not just "the really bad" teams. If your point is "the worse you are the better position in the draft you have", then yes. True.

Thank you Dear Lord in Heaven!! I have written something true!!


You can argue the particulars all you want. You can find differences of opinion. However, even the most ardent captialist, after reading my post, might be mumbling under his breath "yea know, Suff makes a Good point there".... That is rather a socialist way to run an capitialistic enterprise


Your Honor , If it please the Court.


I just have one Final Question Colonel Jessup, If You gave the order to Leave Santiago alone, and your orders are always followed... Why was Santiago in any Danger?

You called that Code red ! Did'nt you!!, you Son of a Bitch!!

You bet your Ass I Did!!!

The Witness has rights!!!


The Liberal Defense Rest's. And don't call me Son, I'm a Liberal in the United States of America, you son of a Bitch! And your under arrest!

[Lefty]

sec, suff, people in this country have more opportunity than any other country. There will always be wealthy people, there will always be poor people, get over it. Socialism doesn't work so how many times does it have to be proven? There is no answer except work harder and get smarter. Life ain't fair so boo friggin hoo.

[Suff]

Socialism doesn't work


Government involvement in the equitable disbursement of Resource's and Opportunity is not socialism. It's Democracy. Consolidating power is Tyranical.

I can tell you from experience, Wealth & Power in America is not a Byproduct of Hard work and Intellignce. It can be, and frequently is. But If I walk out in the rain and get wet, am I wet because I walked outside, or am I wet because its raining.

Most of the Modern Fortunes have come at the expense of The Tax payer. Cell phone's, The internet, Microwave oven's and most other advanced technology have come from research paid for by the Tax Payer. Entrepeuners, have benefitted greatly from Tax payer investments in Technology Research done by Government agency's and College's.

I firmly believe, citizens should benefit more directky from thier direct contributions to these advancements.

And Lefty, Hate to burst your Bubble, But the single purpose of a Corporate Charter isn't to make a maximum profit. Corportate Charters were issued to protect the private holdings of its owners, not to enhance them. The whole purpose of a Corporation was to benefit the Community it served. Profit was secondary, and a needed component of that PRIMARY purpose. To suggest that a Corporations single and only Goal is to maiximize profit, is to bastardize the truth. The early Corporate charters were very clear on this point. And the Very First Corporate Charter was issued right here in Massachusetts. If the founding Fathers were to witness American Corporations Profiteering off American citizens, by relocating the Jobs to a Foriegn Land they'd revoke thier Charter and prevent them from doing business here. Additionally, I thought you Conservatives had all kinds of trouble with mixing Foriegn Law with America? I guess that only applys to Executing Minors. If Levi Strauss Corporation, Or AOL, or CITIBANK wants to escape US law, and follow another Foriegn govt's law, you have no problem with that. I guess cuz its about making money. And all your posturing goes out the window when the all mighty dollar is concerned.

[Tom]

This country grew from an idea to a super power not from government socialism but from entreprenural spirit - the promise of great profits. The railroads, the link to the new West, were not created by the goverment for our beneift - but from the lust for proifts from companies. do you honestly thinkg the USA would have ever amounted to anything if not for the reward system of capitalism?

Where are the libs when people are taking the risks? They only show up after the risk is gone and the profits are there, with their hands out for "their fair share."

[Suff]

This country grew from an idea to a super power not from government socialism but from entreprenural spirit - the promise of great profits. The railroads, the link to the new West, were not created by the goverment for our beneift - but from the lust for proifts from companies. do you honestly thinkg the USA would have ever amounted to anything if not for the reward system of capitalism?

Where are the libs when people are taking the risks? They only show up after the risk is gone and the profits are there, with their hands out for "their fair share."

The govt funded most of the things you talk about There. Railroads, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, Land Grabs, Free Land, Homesteading. All Govt programs.

And all the "risk" you ask about is also paid for by me. Because These companys benifiitng from Space exploration, and technology advancements have access to one thing most people do not. Capital. Smarts and Hard work are secondary.

[Suff]

You come up with those percentags yet? Once you have them, check them against the percentages of "Rich Guys" and "Working Class Blue Collar" guys in the armed forces, and get back to me....

;)

As the table depicts, during 1984-88, an average of about 1.8 million males turned 18 each year. Based on past experience, about 525,000 of them were considered to be "dedicated" college students (those who would remain in college at least into the third year) with a low propensity for enlisted military service. (This group, of course, provides the bulk of military officer candidates, but the military officer corps represents such a small fraction of the relevant age cohorts that the size of those cohorts is not an important consideration in staffing the officer corps.) Another 526,000 would fail to meet the minimum physical, moral, or aptitude standards for entry into the armed forces.

To maintain an active military force of about 2.1 million and a reserve force of roughly 1.0 million, about 376,000 males had to be recruited annually (278,000 active and 98,000 reserves), or about 50 percent of the "qualified and available" pool of eighteen-year-old males. Daunting though this task might appear, recruiting goals were met with relative ease, at relatively modest cost, and without compromising the quality of the forces. In fact, the armed forces faced the formidable task of meeting these recruitment goals over a period during which the youth population was in decline. As matters turned out, they not only survived a 15 percent dip in the youth population that occurred during the 1980s, but they literally thrived, attracting recruits with record-setting levels of education and aptitude test scores. By the close of the decade, close to 90 percent of all new military recruits had earned their high school diplomas, compared with just over 70 percent in the late 1970s. Likewise, fewer than 5 percent of the new recruits in 1989 scored in the lowest acceptable category (below the 30th percentile) on the standardized military aptitude test, compared with close to 30 percent a decade earlier.

A variety of factors contributed to this seeming paradox, including an economic recession that led to diminished employment prospects for American youth, substantial military pay increases, an improved educational benefits package, and a growing popularity of the military among America's young, attributed partly to the replacement of President Jimmy Carter's characterization of American 'malaise' with President Ronald Reagan's "standing tall" jingoism.3 In any event, the message should be reassuring for those concerned that a decline in the size of the American population over the long term might preclude the nation from fielding adequate military forces

[PaceAdvantage]

Your last post was kind of informative Suff, but I still don't think it answers the question. Just because employment opportunites were limited, doesn't mean it was only limited to guys from middle class Blue Collar families.

[Suff]

Your last post was kind of informative Suff, but I still don't think it answers the question. Just because employment opportunites were limited, doesn't mean it was only limited to guys from middle class Blue Collar families.

Thats it. You & Tom are sitting at The children's Table at Saratoga, and if you keep it up no ice cream and cake for either of you.

You do know I work, bet, and am up to my general no-good whilst I debate all this poltical stuff don't you. That info is all I'm gonna come up with. So withdraw your question, reframe it, or live with the answer. CuZ I'm having a Great weekend at the windows and my TVG account is burtsing at the seams and I have some wagers to make today. I had that late Double at H-wood last night 9 & 9 Paid 180.00 , I had it customary betting level.. and Two winners already today.... I'm on fire

[Tom]

Ok, now I'm switchin' side. I am now a liberal.

Now, I lost today, so where is MY cut of YOUR winnings?
After all, YOU an afford it! :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol:

[Suff]

Ok, now I'm switchin' side. I am now a liberal.

Now, I lost today, so where is MY cut of YOUR winnings?
After all, YOU an afford it! :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol:


I paid on average... 450 to 700 hundred a week in Federal Tax's when I was rolling along the last few years. It burned my ass....until I got on the subway and saw all the Latino's who were going into work at 5 in the morning to clean office towers, and I realized, They'll gross in total wages , less than I pay in Federal Tax's. Man am I lucky.

[Tom]

Hey PA!


I'll bring the chairs for the children's table.
Is this color ok with you?

[PaceAdvantage]

It's PERFECT!

[lsbets]

Hey the Wiggles - my son's favorite show. Suff - if I head up to Toga, can I join Tom and PA in the Wiggles chairs?

[Suff]

Hey the Wiggles - my son's favorite show. Suff - if I head up to Toga, can I join Tom and PA in the Wiggles chairs?

My man.. You make it to Toga...and you can have my seat. Or as its commonly refered to... my Throne!

[Lefty]

suff, you say the entrepreneurs have benefitted from govt tax cuts. So what? Have we not benefitted from entrepreneurs? Do you want a world without Tv, computers, autos, microwaves and any other modern convenience you can name?
Corporations give out jobs and not the bums on the streetcorner.

[Tom]

My man.. You make it to Toga...and you can have my seat. Or as its commonly refered to... my Throne!

He's not kidding either!;)
I don't mind the long red robe, but having to bow down every time he hits a danged winner.....:D