Simulcasting-Dream Come True or Nightmare

[speedking]

Throughout the 80's, a group of serious players, along with myself, fantasized about the days when we would have trainer stats, speed and pace figures, track models and race databases available at the touch of a button. We longed for sophisticated racing software that could automatically analyze all tracks in only a few hours and not have to hire someone to enter all the required data. We hoped to be able to install a bank of tv's in our home office, view all the races and monitor the odds on our 12' satellite dish with the blackmarket decoder chips, then actually call our bets in somewhere.

Well, we have exceeded all these dreams, but I find my game was stronger and more profitable 20 years ago. But back then I only played 2 circuits, GP/HIA or SA in the winter and NY the rest of the year, only 1 track at a time. Now I'm seriously considering confining myself to 1 circuit/track again, unless I find a more mechanical, software aided approach that suits my style of play. It looks like I may have found what I'm looking for, but I wondered if anybody else has found himself in this position?

I'm new to this board and want to thank the anonymous member who taped an index card with "paceadvantage.com - horseplaying info" on it next to a pay phone in the bowels of Aqueduct. Never knew of this site until then. More importantly, thanks to PA for maintaining such a board.

speedking

[Zaf]

SpeedKing,

20 years ago the competition was different. Now its Shark vs. Shark. Most on this board and elsewhere have sophisticated software programs to analyse PP's and totebaord activity. A lot of the sucker money has left the game to lotteries , slots,casinos, high stakes bingo etc. You can still make a profit but its probably a little more difficult today than 20 years ago. Do others on the board agree with that statement ?

ZAFONIC

[speedking]

Zafonic,

I definitely agree with you. I just never expected to be putting in so much more time and effort at this point only to have a lower profit margin.

speedking

[Zaf]

Double takeouts do not help the effort. Imagine hitting a hefty tri at Philadelphia Park, after paying a 30% takeout , you are taxed again by the I.R.S. It is not easy to make profits in such an environment.

ZAFONIC

[ratpack]

Double takeouts do not help the effort. Imagine hitting a hefty tri at Philadelphia Park, after paying a 30% takeout , you are taxed again by the I.R.S. It is not easy to make profits in such an environment.

ZAFONIC

That is why recordkeep for both your bets and IRS is so important nowadays. Very little can be done for takeout outside of email and letter writting to racing and goverment officials but recordkeeping is totally under our control.

[betovernetcapper]

Let's see........going to the newstand every night to buy the next day's form-having to visit an OTB to make a bet or even worse the track-getting a choice of 9 local races............no I don't miss the old days at all. :)

[BillW]

The tax issue has always been there, what was missing was the opportunity to hit the big tri. Exotics were much less prevalent in the "good ole days".

Speedking points out the folly of wishing for better published information. Any information that is easier to obtain by the masses makes it harder for the person willing and capable of otherwise obtaining that data to beat the game. The best example is the Beyers being published in the DRF. Those clever enough and dedicated enough to develop their own speed figs prior to the DRF publishing Beyers figs had a big advantage. After the Beyers were published, that dedicated and clever group was reduced to average. Handicapping information is good because it is unique, not because it is complete or accurate. The widespread availability of software provides more information to the segment of the betting public who otherwise would be unwilling to spend the time to create it thus neutralizing those so motivated and making the game harder to beat.

Bill

BTW SpeedKing, welcome to the site.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm new to this board and want to thank the anonymous member who taped an index card with "paceadvantage.com - horseplaying info" on it next to a pay phone in the bowels of Aqueduct. Never knew of this site until then. More importantly, thanks to PA for maintaining such a board.

speedking

Are you serious? I wish I could say that was me who taped it to phone, or someone I knew (Suff, was that you?)

Wow, that just blows my mind to hear little things like this! Thanks and welcome to the board!

[Steve 'StatMan']

I just never expected to be putting in so much more time and effort at this point only to have a lower profit margin.

I guess this is our version of the small/medium sized retailers having a WalMart open up nearby. :D :(

[Tuffmug]

Yes, we have more information today BUT is it BETTER information and is better information the key to this game? We've got Beyers, pace figures, track models and profiles, yadda yadda yadda. BUT favorites still only win one out of three races! That tells me that it's NOT more and better information BUT BETTER ANALYSIS of past performance information that's needed to win at this game.

[TRM]

Back in the 80's I would never bet an exacta or heaven forbid a tri. I remember at LAD they would only offer a few exacta races on the card and the minimum bet was $5.00.......Now you can pound the exotics with a small amount of $$ and still get a chance at those high payouts.

Tuffmug, you said it......the favs are still only winning 1/3, and there are a ton of longshots every day at any track around the country. You would think with all the new information around that the average payouts would be lower. Has anyone done a study to show if the actual prices have fallen over the years?

[Valuist]

I think the two biggest changes in the game have been full card simulcasting and having the Beyer numbers in the DRF. It took me two years to figure out how many tracks/circuits I could play. The game was a lot easier back then and requires a lot more time now. I'm thinking of cutting back from 3 tracks to 2....and judging how I did in January I think in Jan of 2006 I'll stick to basketball for that month.

[Zman179]

Well, we have exceeded all these dreams, but I find my game was stronger and more profitable 20 years ago. But back then I only played 2 circuits, GP/HIA or SA in the winter and NY the rest of the year, only 1 track at a time. Now I'm seriously considering confining myself to 1 circuit/track again, unless I find a more mechanical, software aided approach that suits my style of play. It looks like I may have found what I'm looking for, but I wondered if anybody else has found himself in this position?

I do something along those lines myself. I only play one track at a time (not necessarily the same circuit all the time though) and that's it. I've found that I'm not able to FULLY digest all of the info available to me when I'm constantly jumping from track to track every 10 minutes.

And yes, I fully agree with Zafonic's earlier statement.

[lurker]

Amongst the "pro's" that I talk to the game is much harder today for them. Rebateing and live video have made it tougher for them. I have a freind who plays the Meadowlands and he says that he made more before rebating. He thinks that sharper money is taking a bigger chunk out of the pie. He also says that its easier for others to get tapes of races. He watches a lot of out of town racing that used to be only available on large satellite dishes, but now can be found on the web.
Off topic: I saw an areial banner flying around Santa Anita for TCBETS.com. It looked very nice. It was huge. If anyone else saw it how much does something like that cost?

Lurker

[BillW]

Off topic: I saw an areial banner flying around Santa Anita for TCBETS.com. It looked very nice. It was huge. If anyone else saw it how much does something like that cost?

Lurker

Check with Richard Bauer.

http://www.boycottmagna.com/

Bill

[lurker]

I went to the boycottmagna.com site and didn't see anything about it. Am I missing something?

[BillW]

That is Richard's site and the banner at the top was his Aerial ad - you'll have to ask him about cost - I just included the link to show you his aerial add at Santa Anita.

[BillW]

Are you serious? I wish I could say that was me who taped it to phone, or someone I knew (Suff, was that you?)

Wow, that just blows my mind to hear little things like this! Thanks and welcome to the board!

With 35 new members this month, a lot of people must be using that phone :eek:.

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by lurker
Off topic: I saw an areial banner flying around Santa Anita for TCBETS.com. It looked very nice. It was huge. If anyone else saw it how much does something like that cost?

Lurker

Comment:
We (the boycotters) paid $600 to have the "banner" made up and towed to Arcadia from the Santa Monica airport and then towed around and around in the airspace over SA for 1/2 hour. We did it on SA's biggest day of their meet, SA Handicap day. The whole thing was arranged via the internet and a couple phone calls. There are a couple firms that provide this service that operate out of the SM airport.

If Magna hadn't come around and reopened their pools and simulcast feeds to the other account wagering outfits and relaxed their "us versus them" mentality they would've gotten a double dose of flyovers this year. Another at SA and one at GP. They backed off and so did we!

[rrbauer]

Now, to the thread's topic!

I believe that the keys to success in this game are to work hard (harder than you ever worked at any job), find out where your successful plays are coming from (keeping records and doing periodic analysis are a must) and then hang in those niches for all you're worth. I think that it's very hard (at least for me and my style) to get spread out over several circuits and be successful. Maybe there are guys with computer-based criteria that are grinding out a profit over multiple circuits, but to try and do it, race-by-race using conventional handicapping techniques supplemented by a few of my own innovations is beyond my capabilities.

My best profits (in relation to bankroll size and consistency) came in those days when I was at the track everyday. I was more focused and I had a much better feel for when I was making a good bet. And, attitudinally I was hungrier, which made winning more important relative to the other events in my life. Today, I can afford to lose which makes it easier to accept financially; but, a tough beat is still a tough beat and most of them have a lesson associated with them.

[Valuist]

I hope 99% of the people use software. I know they don't but I wish they would. They're going to end up primarily on the same horses which is going to create value on the others. Let's see a program tell when a horse looks good on the track, or when there's a dead rail.

[Suff]

Are you serious? I wish I could say that was me who taped it to phone, or someone I knew (Suff, was that you?)

Wow, that just blows my mind to hear little things like this! Thanks and welcome to the board!



No that wasn't me. Although I have been a Big Paceadvantage Booster scince I got here. I can't take credit for that. Lately I just steer Republcans and WarMongers to the site.... :bang:

But This is a Good thread ..I'm completely Frustrated with Race Tracks and Racing in general Lately. Another new guy posted a thread about "whats wrong with racing" and I was gong to , and I still may, write something in there. I have a ton of pent up Frustration at Tracks right now.

I Play on-line and on Track. And quite a Bit. And I have for years. And its simple little things that Tick me off to no end. Like the will pays for example. I'm a Value player. I'll play a Double that I give a 25% chance of popping, if its paying ..say.. 90 Bucks. I can live with missing that Ticket if I can get a Good Crack at 45-1. So I'm sitting at Suffolk.. and I am waiting , and waiting and waiting for the DOUBLE PROBABLES... and its the smae thing for the last 10 years... I have to wait for SIMO signal to get to it. Now.. 12 horse field, WET TRACK, 5 scratch's... as they go through the Probables they don't skip the scractch's... One after another, after another, after another they show you the "Scr-Scr" Probable will pay..

When anyoen with a 1/2 a brain knows it would be a MINOR programming issue to skip the SCRATHED horses... AND when they Finally get to the PROBABLE WILL PAY on the double I am interested in? They take it down and go to the Post Parade!! Frustrating.

Frequently I play from a Lounge at Suffolk... I pay an extra 2 bucks and get a Little booth of my own with a TV. I sit there thinking to myself.. The track COULD make all this information available to me at the Tip of my fingers. But no. For 10 years they have these shit box TV's. Same Ole , same ole... Then I think of tht Richie Violette article where he says the Horsemen can make more money when VLTS get put in, with out doing anything different. And It makes me want to Jump up and down and scream. The Godamn Bingo Parlor at Foxwoods has more amenities and technology than the race tracks... and all these Chock-Suckers wanna do is
feed me the same old bullshit while cutting into my pocket, my takeout,, The cut of the slots... and on and on.... 4 dollar draft beers, 3 dollar Hotdogs, 2.50 for a cup of coffee, Long lines at the Tellers, ancient technology, Trash everywhere, Filthy Bathrooms,

I could go on.. It'd take me all day and into tomorrow.... I get so Frustrated I can barely type it out...

[Suff]

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13954757&BRD=985&PAG=461&dept_id=161561&rfi=6

Horse racing remains popular, but it isn't the spectator sport it was back in the 1950s and 60s. Lang can remember the days when Belmont would draw 30,000 fans for a Monday afternoon card. Today, with the proliferation of simulcasting, on-track attendance everywhere is down. People don't have to go to the track to bet anymore. You can bet through a phone account, go to your neighborhood OTB or wager on the Internet. With the growth of networks like TVG and Horse Racing Television, bettors can watch races without ever getting off the couch.
"It can only help," Lang replied when asked if he felt more racing on TV was a good thing. "The biggest mistake the sport ever made was not putting its product on TV years ago. Now, in a lot of cases, the industry has to pay to be on TV."
Hialeah has been closed down for some time. There are still glorious spots for racing like Saratoga and Del Mar, but Lang knows it will never be the way it used to be.
"I don't enjoy going to the track as much as I used to," Lang admitted. "When I would go to Hialeah on a Saturday afternoon, there was an air of excitement. Saratoga on Travers Day is like that. And it is one of the only places where kids can go to the races. But the rest of the days there and at other tracks are ordinary. It didn't used to be that way."
The racing industry is struggling to create new fans.

[John]

Rick Lang, was/is dateing a girl from a town not to far from Rockingham park.

He comes to Rock every now and then, last time Rick was there we talked about Siro's when he was on Harvey Pack's Radio Show. He told me he was hoping to get a job with the Boston Herald as a handicapper and Sports writer. Nice guy to talk to.

PA,
Rick Lang had never heard of your board untill I told him.I think he is a member now. I tell a lot of people who are new to the internet to log on.
I do so because I think it is the best board for exchangeing information on Handicapping.

JOHN

[speedking]

PA,

Hate to admit it, but I took the card down and pocketed it so I'd remember to look the site up. I normally haunt Philly Park these days and will try to repay the favor tomorrow with a few cards of my own.

Rich,

In my opinion you nailed it. At least what I'm experiencing. I was much more focused and thorough when playing only one track and my homework was complete. I felt much more comfortable when I thought it was time to step in and crush a race. Using speed and pace figures according to race shape, I grind out a good profit, but all my big scores have been coming off trainer data. This approach seems to still be slightly under the radar, nothing like it used to be, though.

John,

Rick Lang is a real nice guy and a better handicapper than most of the "informed sources" realize. If you have the chance, buy him a breer and ask about MP and Boyles. Some great stories there if he remembers them.

speedking