26 minutes in. Well worth a listen. Gutfreund is one of the sharpest ever.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/1679859226934648835

[RainMan]

Please don't let this thread die. The blatent cheating has driven a few of us honest players away from the tournament scene. Team play is no different from playing poker against guys who are looking at each other's cards - who would stand for that. Also, I am glad the long accepted issue of husbands playing their wives entries was brought up. Many wives at the NHC can not even tell you how they qualified to get there. Either the NTRA needs to hold the NHC with zero rules and let it continue like the wild west that it is or put some firm rules and penalties in place to combat this. Personally I thought assigned seating which was put into place in 2008 was a step in the right direction but I believe that was canned after just one year. Bottom line to me is that the punishment needs to be much harsher - stealing is criminal no matter how the NTRA, The Players Committee and Contest Sites try to spin it.

[PaceAdvantage]

People just need to realize...ANYWHERE there is MONEY or POWER to be had...CHEATING has and ALWAYS will be happening...period...full stop...end of story

[cj]

People just need to realize...ANYWHERE there is MONEY or POWER to be had...CHEATING has and ALWAYS will be happening...period...full stop...end of story

BINGO!

[Parkview_Pirate]

People just need to realize...ANYWHERE there is MONEY or POWER to be had...CHEATING has and ALWAYS will be happening...period...full stop...end of story

Well, there's cheating and then there's CHEATING. Sort of like pickpockets and armed robbery.

Most of us are aware the system will never be perfect. But if we don't strive to make it as fair as possible, then it becomes a gathering of cronies.

Now I'll go give the podcast a listen....

[Parkview_Pirate]

... Bottom line to me is that the punishment needs to be much harsher - stealing is criminal no matter how the NTRA, The Players Committee and Contest Sites try to spin it.

I agree with this - two years isn't enough. Sort of like the way the "trainers on the needle" get away with drugs - the risk/reward ratio is still favorable. Part of the problem is a conflict of interest. The NHC/NTRA doesn't want to be too overbearing with enforcing the rules, as it potentially cuts into their number of entrants. But, like with rebates to the CAW group, there comes a point of diminishing returns, where players will stay away and not support what appears to be a crooked tourney.

Listened to the podcast, and it was quite interesting. There is a problem determining what is "camaraderie" and what is collusion, and the gradations in between. I don't have so much of a problem with a husband-wife "team", or getting input from one or two other handicappers. It's just as easy to get bad advice as good, and with a total of only 53 picks through the final table, my chances as a lone wolf are still pretty good.

Obviously the advantages become more numerous with the better handicappers controlling more sets of selections. The point at which it would really become out of control is when a "team" works together on factors outside of what a computer can do. There's no way a single player can keep up with monitoring gimmick pools, post parades, weather changes, late scratches, track biases, etc. for all the tournament tracks. Having others help with that, especially with on-track observations, would be a huge edge. But since only the top few places would be worth financing such an effort, I'm not too worried.

I don't want to be locked in a room with no cell phone either.

[JustRalph]

I listened to the podcast.

I also thought the guy who was trying to do a nationwide confessional because he thought it was partly his fault was a little much,,,,,,,,

[porchy44]

People just need to realize...ANYWHERE there is MONEY or POWER to be had...CHEATING has and ALWAYS will be happening...period...full stop...end of story

My father, a regular horseplayer when I was a kid, once said to me,
"The more the honey, the bigger the bees".
Which at the time i had no idea what he was talking about.

[PaceAdvantage]

Those WITH money and power (and who do a lot of cheating..lol) will ALWAYS rely on the naiveté of the general population to get away with it all.

People are constantly underestimating the amount of evil out there...in all its many forms. Both large and small.