Iraqi-Americans Are Voting in Iraq?????

[JustMissed]

What the hell is this about?

I just saw on Fox where Iraqi-Americans were going to be allowed to vote in the upcoming Iraqi election.

There were two Iraqis debating the subject.

The guy said that Americans who wanted to vote should have to move and live there.

The lady said that they should just be allowed to vote simply because they have relatives and ties to their homeland.

Someone please explain this to me-I thought that when you became an American citizens that you swore allegance to America and denounced any other country.

If this is true it looks like America is going to hell in a hand basket.

I guess we are just going to sit around and let these other countries take over FROM THE INSIDE OUT

Do you ever get the feeling that Americans are the biggest Dupes on the planet?

Let me know.

JM

p.s. Don't even get me started on the 9 & 10 yo kids that were arrested for drawing violent pictures with crayons in school. I really should quit watching the news.

[Bobby]

What the hell is this about?

Do you ever get the feeling that Americans are the biggest Dupes on the planet?

.

Yea, I feel that way everytime I see someone from the BUSH ADMIN rationalize this war, and yet somehow BUSH wins the election. Sounds Clintonesque to me.

[JustMissed]

"The Oath of Citizenship

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature."

JM

[GameTheory]

Iraqi exiles in America can vote, yes. To be eligible, you have to be at least 18 and born in Iraq. I also think you can vote if you are old enough, born here, but your father is eligible.

[Show Me the Wire]

You think that oath would apply to Israelis and them holding dual citizenship too.

Once again Bobby is trying to equate two different situations. The Iraqi election board gets to set the requirements of voter elgibility. If the Iraqi board can accept people with dual citizenship to vote, as it effeccts Iraqi internal politics.

Voting in an Iraqi election does not equate to violating U.S. citizenship. There the President's bashers go again, complain about Bush imposing his visionon other countries, yet the complainers want to impose their vision on the Iraqi election board by telling the Iraqi's who the Iraqi's should allow to vote.

JM: Iraqi's born in the U.S. or residing in the U.S. because of past Iraqi persecution in no way shape or form jeapordizes U.S. security. Probably many of these Iraqis currently residing in the U.S. will return home once an effective stable government is in place. I am sure many Iraqis, especially the ones born and raised in the U.S. may opt to live here.

BTW JM did you have to take the oath of citizenship to become a citizen or were you automatically deemed a citizen because of your parent's citizenship or your physical place of birth. the oath is not necessarily a requirement of citizenship.

Another example of the pot calling the kettle black.

[sq764]

Yea, I feel that way everytime I see someone from the BUSH ADMIN rationalize this war, and yet somehow BUSH wins the election. Sounds Clintonesque to me.
What do you mean somehow he wins the election?

[lsbets]

Bobby - I am really curious when I hear people who think like you do. How would you explain the people who have the best first hand knowledge of the war voting overwhelmingly for Bush?

[JustMissed]

You think that oath would apply to Israelis and them holding dual citizenship too.

Once again Bobby is trying to equate two different situations. The Iraqi election board gets to set the requirements of voter elgibility. If the Iraqi board can accept people with dual citizenship to vote, as it effeccts Iraqi internal politics.

Voting in an Iraqi election does not equate to violating U.S. citizenship. There the President's bashers go again, complain about Bush imposing his visionon other countries, yet the complainers want to impose their vision on the Iraqi election board by telling the Iraqi's who the Iraqi's should allow to vote.

JM: Iraqi's born in the U.S. or residing in the U.S. because of past Iraqi persecution in no way shape or form jeapordizes U.S. security. Probably many of these Iraqis currently residing in the U.S. will return home once an effective stable government is in place. I am sure many Iraqis, especially the ones born and raised in the U.S. may opt to live here.

BTW JM did you have to take the oath of citizenship to become a citizen or were you automatically deemed a citizen because of your parent's citizenship or your physical place of birth. the oath is not necessarily a requirement of citizenship.

Another example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Shouldn't you have to give up something when you become a citizen?

It would make sense to me that if you voted in your former foreign country--you might still have some allegience to that country--don't you think.

Whose side are these folks going to be on if the two countries should go to war in the future-could easily happen.

What did you mean by this "Another example of the pot calling the kettle black"?

JM

[Show Me the Wire]

lsbets:

The military's overwhelming support for President Bush is a prime reason specific people use certain adjectives and modifiers,eg. idiots to describe people in the military.

The majority do it because they have no vested interest in the U.S. as they do not reside here or have no allegiance to the U.S. Some because they have no respect for human values or life, not everyone believes man was granted certain inalienable rights.

Feel secure in the knowledge the majority of U.S. citizens are gratefull for our military and the job it is doing. As President Bush said every loss of life impacts all of us here in the U.S.

Stay safe and pass our thanks on to the rest of the troops.

[Bobby]

No, I just think the whole IRAQ war is for no real reason. I think it is a waste of time, $, and lives. No WMD were ever found. No real, solid links to terrorism were found in Iraq immediately after invasion. I just think GWB wanted to try to clean up his dad's PERCEIVED mess. And, now after we invade, AL QUEDA is everywhere in IRAQ and it's the biggest mess, and they're trying to have an election for a people who should be throwing spears.

What they need in IRAQ is a dictator not some contrived, thrown together democracy.

[Show Me the Wire]

JM:

The pot calling the kettle black was to Bobby about his trying to impose his vision, sorry could have made that clearer.

To answer your question if you are physically born in U.S. soil or to U.S. citizens you are automatically a citizen. There is no requirement you give anything up to be a citizen. You just are.

If a U.S. citizen, without renouncing his U.S. citizenship, fights against the U.S. you are subject to charges of treason. You know the Benedict Arnold type.

I do not think through voting in an election of another country necessarily means you have a superior allegiance to that country, especially under these circumstances.

Many of the Iraqis living abroad are here due to political persecution. They did not have the right to express their views without threat of actual physical harm or death to themselves or their loved ones. Many are here because of survival reasons.

As I said, voting in an election does not equate to a security threat to the U.S., especially in this specific circumstance.

[Show Me the Wire]

Booby:

Would you agree on one point?

Do you agree Al Queda perpetrated violence against U.S. citizens on U.S. soil with its insidious attack with jetliners against the WTC buildings?

If you agree that fact actually happened, then you are saying a large scale attack is not a valid reason to declare war on terrorism and governments that sponsors terrorism or allows that specific terrorist group exist.

BTW I disagree about your conclusion S.H. Iraqi governmet was not a sponsor of terrorism and Al Queda. I feel there is plenty of evidence both before and after the invasion of iraq, even from S.H.'s own mouth.

Bobby, keep on throwing that brown substance at the wall trying to get some of it to stick. You have changed your position so many times my head is spinning.

If you say the Iraqi war is for no good reason and it is just Jr's way to rectify daddy's mistake, give me the facts to support your conclusion. Please include in those facts if Daddy Bush acted on his own or did he listen to his allies input, when he failed.

If you believe you can not win defeat terrorism give me facts why I should become a good muslim and what sect I should be to appease the terrorists.

[Bobby]

SMTW wrote:

If you say the Iraqi war is for no good reason and it is just Jr's way to rectify daddy's mistake, give me the facts to support your conclusion. Please include in those facts if Daddy Bush acted on his own or did he listen to his allies input, when he failed.

If you believe you can not win defeat terrorism give me facts why I should become a good muslim and what sect I should be to appease the terrorists.


====================

GWB acted unilaterally. The only real ally was UK. No help from FRANCE< GERMANY, SAUDI, our neighbors MExico and Canada, etc. That's one reason you can conclude that he was trying clean his dad's mess up.


I'm not trying to convert you to islam. The only way ISRAEL can TRY TO prevent terroisism is by segregating society. That's what that "Israel closed the West BAnk today" means: segregation. You know after one of those rock-throwers decides to blow something up and kill a few Israelilles (sp), Israel closes the WEST BANK.

[Show Me the Wire]

Bobby:

I was referring to Daddy Bush's failure. What are your facts to support Daddy Bush failed. The goal of the Gulf War was to liberate Kuwait. The fact is Kuwait was liberated.

So tell me factually, what failure is President Bush rectifying for his father.

Also, I did not say you were trying to convert me. I said factually justify your statement about not fighting terrorism, because it is in your estimation an impossible task.

If you don't fight the other is to capitulate. The only way to appease the terrorist is to act according to their beliefs of what a good muslim is and I asked you to factually explain how I should act as a good muslim.

About your point regardind Israel, I am not sure what you are saying. Are you advocating segregation as a means of fighting terrorism?

Like I said keep throwing that brown substance.

[Show Me the Wire]

Bobby:

BTW you did not answer my question about Al Queda's attack. Therefore. I assume your silence regarding this specific question equates to agreement to my statement of who fired first.

And you believe that a large scale attack is not valid reason for a country to take up arms to protect itself from the physical location the attacked nation believes the enemies came from.

[Bobby]

SMTW WROTE:
I was referring to Daddy Bush's failure. What are your facts to support Daddy Bush failed. The goal of the Gulf War was to liberate Kuwait. The fact is Kuwait was liberated.

So tell me factually, what failure is President Bush rectifying for his father.
==============
GWB was trying to rectify the perception that his dad failed. Don't you remember stories about the first months of GWB's administration about how he confided in others his desire for a change in Iraq's leadership. I not saying that OLD MAN BUSH failed

SMTW wrote:
Also, I did not say you were trying to convert me. I said factually justify your statement about not fighting terrorism, because it is in your estimation an impossible task.
==================
Yea, I think it's kind of impossible. And your right if you don't fight you capitulate. So we should leave them alone, get out of there country and let the tribes fight against the tribes, like they been doing for upteen centuries. IF they didn't have oil and if oil wasn't involved we wouldn't be over there.


Segragation: Yea, I guess I would advocate it IF IF IF IF IF IF there was a huge terrorist population here and they were blowing up restuarants, senator's houses and stuff like that. Something like Guantanomo. That's all the U.S. is doing now

[Show Me the Wire]

Bobby:

So your first premise is purely speculation about President Bush rectifying Daddy Bush's mistake. No mistake was made to rectify. Yes, there was speculation the former may have wanted to continue into Iraq, as Iraq was the agressor in the conflict (not sure about his thoughts at that time on Afghanistan), but the coalition decided against it. Therefore, this whole idea of rectifying Daddy's mistake is speculation of the worse kind.

your theory about oil is also speculation. Afghanistan has no oil, we invaded Afghanistan to secure our national safety. I admit oil is valuable and people can speculate all they want about the invasion is all about oil, but it is just that speculation not proved out through the facts of attack on U.S. soil, and the reprisals against a non oil producing country.

Additionally, your point about them killing themselves over there as they always have, I agree with you there. If they would have just stayed within their own physical borders and perpetrated violence against themselves, I say let them have at it.

The problem is the bone heads, involved U.S. citizens lifes, as well as lifes of citizens from many countries , in their domestic squable. The terrorist wnated the U.S. to notice them and become embroiled in their poltical strife. So they got what they wanted, we noticed them and decided to respond to their violent agressive behavior.

I must point out you keep ignoring the fact Al Queda attacked the U.S. Of course if you admit this fact all your premises go bye bye

[Bobby]

Afghanistan REALLY was about national security. Not sure what IRAQ is about (hence, it was one of the skeleton's in the bush dynasty's closet). No real National security threat from IRAQ--a lot more from IRAN.

[JustMissed]

GWB acted unilaterally. The only real ally was UK. No help from FRANCE< GERMANY, SAUDI, our neighbors MExico and Canada, etc. That's one reason you can conclude that he was trying clean his dad's mess up.


Why would France & Germany would help the U.S.?

They were in on the Food for Oil scam from the get go-and I don't mean just a few froggy companies-a whole bunch of government officials, maybe all the way to the top.

If the truth ever comes out you may find that the European/Iraqi corruption ran so deep that the real threat to our national security was and is the threat of a nuclear Middle Eastern War.

The Europeans hate the Jews and if they could help SH vaporize them and put some money in their pocket it would be just fine with them.

If you wonder why we don't know the whole truth just remember what the Godfather said "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer".

Wake up and smell the napalm Bobby, it's an ugly world out there.

JM

[sq764]

Afghanistan REALLY was about national security. Not sure what IRAQ is about (hence, it was one of the skeleton's in the bush dynasty's closet). No real National security threat from IRAQ--a lot more from IRAN.

Why did Kerry call Saddam "The single greatest threat to the United States in this world"?

[Bobby]

JM, that food for oil crap is stuff for conspiracy theorist. It mighta happened but even if it did, it don't matter. Our own neighbors wouldn't help us over in IRAQ. We rely on Britain, and Tony Blair is getting pounded at home b/c he helped his hawkish-friend. All Bush is doing is trying to do is dispose of his family's political skeletons. It's one of those history book, legacy building things: dad went in and gotem out of kuwait & W removed him from power. it makes the family look good, it makes the dynasty look stronger.


There's no threat from IRAQ. Hell, the whole damn country was a no fly zone before the invasion. Don't sound too threatening to me.

[CryingForTheHorses]

No, I just think the whole IRAQ war is for no real reason. I think it is a waste of time, $, and lives. No WMD were ever found. No real, solid links to terrorism were found in Iraq immediately after invasion. I just think GWB wanted to try to clean up his dad's PERCEIVED mess. And, now after we invade, AL QUEDA is everywhere in IRAQ and it's the biggest mess, and they're trying to have an election for a people who should be throwing spears.

What they need in IRAQ is a dictator not some contrived, thrown together democracy.

If I may add something to this OUTRAGEST post!

Saddam the dictator in my opinion was a WMD for the people, US forces captured this guy like a rat in a hole, Hell he even has a gun in his hand and was TOO chickenshit to use it, For you to make a statement like this is a very poor excuse for you as a human being...People who thow spears!!..What kind of a person are you to make a statement like that?.These people have nothing and with the likes of you they would never have the same chance that you have in your life, Im sure lots of them would spit in your eye for your attitude. Im sure you like FREEDOM!..I do hope you would defend YOUR country no matter what!.Im very sorry for people that have this kind of thinking, Its like the whole world has lost respect for one another. The whole picture in Iraq is bleak at the moment but Im very sure it will get better. Please rethink of what you have said about them spear throwers because millons of them are hoping this works.

[chickenhead]

Watched a documentary the other night called "The Control Room", basically a camera crew followed around and interviewed Al Jazeera/US Army Spokesman/US and Int'l Press during the lead up to the war in Iraq, through to the fall of Baghdad.

Mainly focused on the Al Jazeera people, lot's of air time with them. Anyway, it was a very very interesting insight into the great complexity of the situation over there, more than I can comprehend.

I highly suggest it to anyone, make sure you get the DVD and watch some of the deleted interviews...VERY ENLIGHTENING.

I was expecting a very Anti-American viewpoint from the Al-Jazeera folks, and there was some of that, but there were many many other nuanced things you could see:

Their envy of America
Their wishing to be in America
Their embarrassment at being unable/unwilling to defend themselves
Their embarrasment at being unable/unwilling to overthrow people like Saddam themselves.

Probably the thing that struck me most was some footage taken during the fall of Baghdad...while the US tanks are rolling into town, there is a big group (1000's) of people on the other side of town having a protest/burning American flags..screaming about Bush.

I was just amazed, trying to put myself in their shoes....some foreign power is invading my country, AT THIS MOMENT, and I hold a protest? I burn a flag? You're supposed to go fight! What is wrong with these people?

It is a very very complex situation over there, nothing is simple or as it seems on it's face.

They may not be happy we are there, but they are happy we are there. They are too ashamed to admit it! They are so confused, they don't know what they want. No, scratch that, they want to be like us.....but they can't admit that either. Not to us at least.

But of course, these are my impressions from a damn movie, if someone like lsbets says this is FOS I would be prepared to believe him.

[Tom]

Bobby,
How do you get your sheet so white? :eek:

[Secretariat]

Watched a documentary the other night called "The Control Room", basically a camera crew followed around and interviewed Al Jazeera/US Army Spokesman/US and Int'l Press during the lead up to the war in Iraq, through to the fall of Baghdad.



I saw this movie too. The American affairs guy Al Jazera talked to resigned from the Marines after years of service. Saw him on an interview. Intersting perspective by him on the war.

[kenwoodallpromos]

There is dual citizenship also. like most Israelis who were targets of Hussein's murder-for-hire sceme with $25,000 for killing those who Hussein knew would have US citizenship.