Are Bush Haters America Haters too??

[sq764]

I could understand that during the election it was a good thing and possibly a necessary thing for all of us to post our beliefs on Bush and Kerry.. I also believe it was necessary to do so to possibly push a voter one way or the other.

My question is, now that the election is well over, Bush won fair and square, at what point do the Bush haters say “Ok, he won, he leads our country, he’s made mistakes in the past, let’s support moving forward”???

Instead, all I see is continual bashing of all of the decisions and policies that Bush makes, as well as continual references to mistakes the Dems believe he made 2,3,4 years ago..

I mean seriously, does posting this nonsense day in and day out ease the sting of the election loss? Does it make you feel more patriotic to bash the president?

What sickens me most is some posters like Sec and Zilzal that seem to find joy in posting soldier death totals and Iraqi civilian deaths, only to try and prove some twisted point.. Sadly, I could see someday another 9/11 in the US happening and them saying “See, I told you”.. Just sickening, that’s all it is.

Bush has made many mistakes along the way, some more costly than others, but he’s also made some good decisions and protected this country along the way. (Maybe this is why 60 million people wanted him in office).. Don’t be so shallow to continually bash every single thing he does and says, or at least reference the whole story – the good with the bad, the triumphs and tragedies… After all, aren’t we all Americans and don’t we all want the best for this country?? Sometimes I honestly don’t think people like Sec, LJB, Hcap and Zilzal do at all.

[46zilzal]

He's a misguided turnip who is going to get folks DEEPER and DEEPER into his God's Squad morality that thinks MIGHT IS RIGHT.

Support him??? When hell freezes over. or more likely when GLOBAL warming takes over in the not too distant future.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I voted for Nader, dislike most politicians but hate none.
politicians on both sides get voters riled up to hate, then go party at the DC dinners at laugh at all of us. See them kiss up on live tv right now!
Demos are still mad at Lincoln for not giving blacks a mule, and Bush considers voting Democrat a hate crime. LOL.

[bettheoverlay]

Bush is the most right wing president of our life time, Goldwater revisited. He sees and knows the truth, the true American Way. Everything is black and white, good and evil, no in betweens. Never question or have doubts about one's beliefs.

Lots of people don't view life this way and can be expected to disagree heartily with the policies emanating from such certainty. And our history is not littered, thank God, with all the people bowing down to one's President. Lincoln, Roosevelt, Jefferson and most others were maligned by those who just didn't get it, while they were in office.

I think it's a healthy for a free country to have a rousing opposition to whoever is in power. Would right wingers feel such magnanimous feelings toward Kerry if he had been elected? Be skeptical of everyone.

[46zilzal]

I think it's a healthy for a free country to have a rousing opposition to whoever is in power. Would right wingers feel such magnanimous feelings toward Kerry if he had been elected? Be skeptical of everyone.
THINKING people do this all the time

[sq764]

THINKING people do this all the time
so I guess to you, there were 60,000,000 idiot non-thinkers in November, huh?

[46zilzal]

SNOWED UNDER..just like lawyers do all the time: DON'T argue the unarguable..make the contention about something emotional and peripheral

[sq764]

...and the 2000 election??

[Secretariat]

SQ,

in case you aren't aware we don't live in a dictatorship. The House and Senate debate issues daily. Newspapers constantly print various editorials on differences with the Executive branch. Courts overturn justice department decisions.

Your post is again inaccurate (not sure where i posted any deaths from Iraqi soldiers, but if i would do so it was to honor those men's sacrifices unlike those of the congress or the Bush family) Those soldiers are much mroe than a number and should never be forgotten.

It is interesting that Bush failed to mention the word Iraq or Bin Laden ONCE in his inaugural address. Instead he spoke in vague terms about freedom, liberty and tyranny. As conservative George Will said it seemed like a return to WW I President Woodrow Wilson's policies of being the world' policemen, imposing our governmental system on other nations. I suppose the tyranny he was referring to are Saudi Arabia, our largest energy supplier, OR Communist China, a massive human rights violator. The problem is SQ you beleive, unlike Teddy Roosevelt by the way, that we lose our right to dissent after an election. Even president Bush said in the inaugural speech today:

"America's belief in human dignity will guide our policies, yet rights must be more than the grudging concessions of dictators; they are secured by free dissent and the participation of the governed."

Notice "free dissent" and "the participation of the governed". By the way this was right before they escorted the guy out for putting up a sign that said "No War"

Your feeble attempts to silence us who disagree with the President's policies counter with the Presidents own words. In that regard I give Bush much more credit than you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Support him??? When hell freezes over. or more likely when GLOBAL warming takes over in the not too distant future.

Crichton's latest book should be on your reading list, if you indeed value your place in society as a THINKING person (as you put it).

[toetoe]

Bush is just the hired help. These guys don't believe in God or much else. Goldwater gets a much worse rap than he deserves. His sin was to support state rights in cases where it was not fashionable. This dualism -- LBJ the Great-Society savior, Goldwater the evil racist/mad bomber
(plug in any past or present names you want) -- gives the mouth-foamers a raison d'etre, but does it move us anywhere worth going?
By the way, did you know Nelson Rockefeller was so rich .. "HOW..RICH..WAS..HE? .. that he had gold water in his toilet?

[sq764]

Sec, as usual, you missed the point.. That's ok, I am too tired to explain it slower for you..

Keep doing what you're doin, you're great..

[Secretariat]

Sec, as usual, you missed the point.. That's ok, I am too tired to explain it slower for you..

Keep doing what you're doin, you're great..

Thanks.

btw..your quote previously...

"After all, aren’t we all Americans and don’t we all want the best for this country?? Sometimes I honestly don’t think people like Sec, LJB, Hcap and Zilzal do at all."

Well, I can't speak for others, but the only reason I post is because i do want what is best for the country. Remaining silent when you beleive something terrible is happening in your country to me is reprehensible. Just because we don't agree on policy decisions doesn't mean I don't want what is best for the country. I certainly beleive you want what is best for the country, we just differ dramatically on what we think that is. I don't mind addressing posts which address privatization accounts such as Lefty advocates, but to impugn me, LJB, Hcap and Zilzal as people who don't desire the best for this country is just flat out wrong.

I post here because i like horse racing. I've met more decent horse players than corporate businessmen or politicians.

[sq764]

I never once said anything about remaining silent..I never said anything regarding the need to agree with Bush's policies..

I wonder.. If Kerry would have won, would you be continually making posts blasting the policies he put into place that you didn't agree with?

[Tom]

I like the dancing liberals.
Four years of free entertainment!
Dance, boys, dance.
:D :D :D

I was going to take the high road and not rub it in after the second consecutive republican win, and especially after the last - the first president to get a majority of the vote since 1988, and the one with the most votes ever recorded for a winner, but they took such a LOW raod, it is just too hard to do, so........dance, boys, dance!

[Secretariat]

I never once said anything about remaining silent..I never said anything regarding the need to agree with Bush's policies..

I wonder.. If Kerry would have won, would you be continually making posts blasting the policies he put into place that you didn't agree with?

If I disagreed with policies that Kerry had initiated you're darn right I'd be blasting him. I blasted Clinton on NAFTA. He's a Dem. Why wouldn't I do it to Kerry?

This what you said:

"My question is, now that the election is well over, Bush won fair and square, at what point do the Bush haters say “Ok, he won, he leads our country, he’s made mistakes in the past, let’s support moving forward”???"

I am moving forward, continuing to speak out against any policy that damages the integrity of the United States, any policy that doesn't stop pollution, any policy that puts Social Security in danger. Now you may not agree with me, and that's fine, but don't say that I have to view the election of GW Bush as in any way moving America forward.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The sportive, knightly battle awakens the best human characteristics. It doesn't separate, but unites the combatants in understanding and respect. He also helps to connect the countries in the spirit of peace. That's why the Olympic Flame should never die.
Adolf Hitler

[VicD]

He's a misguided turnip who is going to get folks DEEPER and DEEPER into his God's Squad morality that thinks MIGHT IS RIGHT.

Support him??? When hell freezes over. or more likely when GLOBAL warming takes over in the not too distant future.

I can really feel that global warming this morning in NJ.
My thermometer says -2F. Better head for the hills or build a bunker because the earth is going to melt.....

[formula_2002]

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/

I can not find a web site about the infrastructure damage.

Could Sadam have accomplished more in the same periord of time.

I just saw Mac Namara's tearful interview of his Vietnam war record, and I could not help think of the Bush interview that will come at the end of all this.

Will it be added to the tearful interviews of Johnson, Nixion and Mac Namara.

[lsbets]

Wow formula, you found a website, you now have a very clear picture and understanding of what is actually happenning in Iraq, too bad those of us over here are not as enlightened as you.

[formula_2002]

Wow formula, you found a website, you now have a very clear picture and understanding of what is actually happenning in Iraq, too bad those of us over here are not as enlightened as you.

Do not dispare, I'm sure you can post some web sites showing happy children playing in the streets, new homes being built by Peace Core workers and all those other Happyville dreams...

[JustRalph]

SNOWED UNDER..just like lawyers do all the time: DON'T argue the unarguable..make the contention about something emotional and peripheral

Are you tap dancing while you spew this pabulum?

You should be.........

[JustRalph]

Formula..........funny how your Iraqi deaths link counts those killed by Terrorists. And you blame the U.S. for that. Not to mention that 17k people are a drop in the bucket when it comes to unearthing mass graves with over 300k people (estimated by the U.S. military) that have been killed since Saddam took power.

Just admit it........you are not an american and I suspect you are an Arab who is pissed about the war? Not sure that you are even in the U.S. How about Michigan? If you are in the U.S. you are more of a chump for taking advantage of everything this country has to offer and then bad mouthing the U.S. in forums like this.

[Tom]

These guys are the Blame America First crowd. It is one thing to be against the war -that is our right as Americans. But to constantly blame our us and totally ignore tje documented evil that was Hussein is just an idictment as their lack of character and integrity. Theere is no doubt whatever that Iraq is better off today than three years ago, and that they at least have a chance at a free future - while they would have noe at all if SH were still in charge.

[bettheoverlay]

I have one question. If Saddam Hussein had been a pro-American dictator, would you guys have cared as much about his evil ways?

[formula_2002]

Formula..........funny how your Iraqi deaths link counts those killed by Terrorists. And you blame the U.S. for that. Not to mention that 17k people are a drop in the bucket when it comes to unearthing mass graves with over 300k people (estimated by the U.S. military) that have been killed since Saddam took power.

Just admit it........you are not an american and I suspect you are an Arab who is pissed about the war? Not sure that you are even in the U.S. How about Michigan? If you are in the U.S. you are more of a chump for taking advantage of everything this country has to offer and then bad mouthing the U.S. in forums like this.

I wouldn't want to justify my killing's because the other guy "did it". I think better of our society. It has the ability to offer the world something better the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.
I have a high reagard for the country that I and my family have helped build.
Hopefully it will continue to be lucky enough overcome momentary madness.

[Kreed]

There's enough to hate about Bush totally by itself. Years from now, like who
cares because this country is so great not even 8 years of an idiot pres will
matter. Actually, I think he won't finish his term.

[Tom]

I have one question. If Saddam Hussein had been a pro-American dictator, would you guys have cared as much about his evil ways?


That is a dumb question. Of course.
BTW...where were you during Rhowanda? Did you libs care about that one?

[Tom]

"I wouldn't want to justify my killing's because the other guy "did it". I think better of our society. It has the ability to offer the world something better the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality.
I have a high reagard for the country that I and my family have helped build.
Hopefully it will continue to be lucky enough overcome momentary madness."

You mean do nothing and let another 9-11 happen?
You were content to do nothing about Somalia and the Balckhawk incident, you ignored the various embassy bombings, you probably threw a party over the USS Cole. You ignored genocide in Africa.
SH invaded Kuwait, you were in favor of that?
We went in with the UN...were you protesting that one, too?
SH continually fired upon US Air Force planes.......remember that?
Shoot first?
I say shoot BACK!

It is about time we put these madmen on notice.
Bush's speech was a loud and clear warning. And the funny thing about it is that it DID NOT come from the UN or the Security Council. What is their purpose again, by the way?

[lsbets]

Formula,

Even better than websites - I have seen plenty of happy Iraqi children, I have seen lots of new homes, and I have been to the opening of a new school. On the other side, I have seen my fair share of violence over here, but do not think for a second that the distorted perceptions that you have constitute reality, as I do not have to go on some website to find reality, I just have to wake up every morning.

[lsbets]

Formula,

I take it from you reply to my post that you honestly believe that you sitting at home know better than I, sitting in Iraq, what is really happening here. Would I be correct in my assumption?

[sq764]

There's enough to hate about Bush totally by itself. Years from now, like who
cares because this country is so great not even 8 years of an idiot pres will
matter. Actually, I think he won't finish his term.
We made it through 8 years of Clinton just fine

[Tom]

No we didn't, SQ.
It was due to Clinton's ingorance that Al Qeda was allowed to grow and become a makor threat to the world.
9-11 was in no small part due to Billy's 8 years sleeping at the helm.
You have to remeber this everytime some yahoo dem candidate comes on the scene....

[formula_2002]

Formula,

Even better than websites - I have seen plenty of happy Iraqi children, I have seen lots of new homes, and I have been to the opening of a new school. On the other side, I have seen my fair share of violence over here, but do not think for a second that the distorted perceptions that you have constitute reality, as I do not have to go on some website to find reality, I just have to wake up every morning.

I guess you can always find what you look for on the internet.

http://www.operationiraqichildren.org/stories.asp.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessays/dec2004/p121204a1.html


Now it's just a matter of judgement..

[sq764]

What do you think they are actors??

[Tom]

First, you tell a bunch of winners that we cannot beat the take, then you tell a guy living over tere what is happening. You rely far too much on your computer for your reality. Turn it off and go outside.

[formula_2002]

Formula,

I take it from you reply to my post that you honestly believe that you sitting at home know better than I, sitting in Iraq, what is really happening here. Would I be correct in my assumption?

I dont know what reply you are refering to..

[formula_2002]

What do you think they are actors??

WOW. I thought I was showing how one can support his case by referring to different web sites. I certainly did not think they were actors. But now that you raise the point. How do you know they weren't?

Being there certainly gives one a real view of what is happening to the country.. But I have to weigh his views with the other images I see on the news and other informational sources...

He pointed to the good he saw.. I looked into it and found (at no surprise to me) some web sites that support his position, only to have the ghost of my third grade teacher (sq764) accuse me of calling them actors!!!

Oh if were so certain of things as you all appear to be..

Backing the right horse in politicts and the race track...

[Tom]

The thing is way too many people just post a link to some website and say,"There! See? I was right."
Websites, newspapers, TV networks, just the fact that they are there proves nothing. But they do, for some posters here (not you, Joe) they are used in place of a thought process.

[Doc]

What good decisions has he made? Can you name them?


Doc

[PaceAdvantage]

If you think he hasn't made EVEN ONE good decision, how does that reflect on your candidate, John Kerry?

How could Kerry NOT beat a man who in FOUR YEARS, NEVER MADE EVEN ONE good decision (your words)????

Mind boggling, isn't it? Or maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

[Doc]

You forgot to specify what good decisions he's made in your last post.


Doc

[Tom]

What good decisions has he made? Can you name them?


Doc
Gee Doc,
Have you forgotten he gave us ALL a tax refund, lowered taxes generally, fixed the rotten economy Clinton left him, topples the Taliban, liberated Afghanistan, topppled the evil murderous Hussein regime, etc, etc,

On the other hand, Clinton......got a hummer.

[sq764]

WOW. I thought I was showing how one can support his case by referring to different web sites. I certainly did not think they were actors. But now that you raise the point. How do you know they weren't?

Being there certainly gives one a real view of what is happening to the country.. But I have to weigh his views with the other images I see on the news and other informational sources...

He pointed to the good he saw.. I looked into it and found (at no surprise to me) some web sites that support his position, only to have the ghost of my third grade teacher (sq764) accuse me of calling them actors!!!

Oh if were so certain of things as you all appear to be..

Backing the right horse in politicts and the race track...
I was referring to your comment following the links of : "Now it's just a matter of judgement"

[Doc]

As I recall, the economy was quite robust when Clinton left office. We had a SURPLUS in the federal coffers...how big is the deficit now, do you know?

The way I look at it - Bush got rid of Hussein, and that was a good thing. Trying to foist a democracy on a country is quite another.

Clinton wasn't the only president who got a hummer in office. Bush's father had a long affair with one of his top aides, but it wasn't publicized much.

Doc

[PaceAdvantage]

You forgot to specify what good decisions he's made in your last post.

Your question wasn't directed at me, it was directed at Tom, who has subsequently answered you. I would rather not get into a pissing match.

[sq764]

You forgot to specify what good decisions he's made in your last post.


Doc
You're alive right now, aren't you? You haven't been killed by a terrorist have you? How about the decision to go after, capture and kill hundreds of terrorists and work with other countries to track them down there to?

Or is the whole living, not being bombed thing not high on your agenda?

[Doc]

I think any president who was in office at the time of the 9-11 attacks would take similar action.


Doc

[sq764]

I think any president who was in office at the time of the 9-11 attacks would take similar action.


Doc
Oh you mean like Clinton did when the US was attacked overseas? Sent 2 cruise missiles and called it a night.. The way he 'handled' that didn't disappoint you??

[formula_2002]

I was referring to your comment following the links of : "Now it's just a matter of judgement"

The judgment part ment, gather ALL the information possible. Dont be led by any one or any one group.
Get all the information you can, then take your best shot.

Then do it all over again.

[lsbets]

Here ya go formula:

"
Do not dispare, I'm sure you can post some web sites showing happy children playing in the streets, new homes being built by Peace Core workers and all those other Happyville dreams..."
__________________

Now, I ask you again - do you feel that you have a better handle on what is happenning in Iraq than I do? You seem to insinuate that what I speak of seeing is only an illusion, yet most of the troops over here say the same thing. So, please answer my question - do you have a better handle on what is going on here than most of the troops on the ground?

[JustRalph]

As I recall, the economy was quite robust when Clinton left office.
Doc

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3691

The claim that the last recession started under Clinton is absolutely true. To deny this is not only to blame Bush for a problem he didn't cause, but to deprive him of the credit for fixing it with effective policies — which is exactly why the Left is so eager in this case. Here, however, are the facts:


The unemployment rate bottomed at 3.8 percent (http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsatabs.htm) in April 2000, and started deteriorating steadily from there (during the Clinton administration).
The fed funds rate — the overnight interest rate administered by Alan Greenspan and the Federal Reserve — peaked at 6.5 percent in 2000, and had to be lowered in an emergency move on January 3, 2001, "in light of further weakening of sales and production" (http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/press/general/2001/20010103/) (during the Clinton administration).
As the chart below shows, GDP growth fell off a cliff in the third quarter of 2000 (http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/nipaweb/TableView.asp?SelectedTable=1&FirstYear=2003&LastYear=2004&Freq=Qtr) (during the Clinton administration). Despite the shock of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, growth started to revive in the fourth quarter of 2001 (during the Bush administration).
http://www.capmag.com/images2y346y/charts/2004_5_5_chart_luskin.gif

The one and only piece of evidence offered by Media Matters that's to the contrary is that fact that the National Bureau of Economic Research set the beginning of the last recession at March 2001 -- two months into the Bush administration. Check that date on the chart above: This well-respected economic research group set the beginning of the recession after GDP growth had already crashed from almost 5 percent to near zero. But according to Media Matters, this single authority determines truth, and everyone else is a liar. The article declares that "if NBER says the recession began in March 2001, the recession began in March 2001."

The reality is that the National Bureau of Economic Research is just like any other group of economists, struggling with partial and imperfect information to characterize phenomena that don't have any hard-and-fast definitions. Since NBER set the March 2001 recession start date in November 2001 (http://www.nber.org/cycles/november2001/), there have been important negative revisions to key data. Most important, back then (http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrelarchive/2001/gdp301a.htm) GDP growth for the third quarter of 2000 was reported at 1.3 percent — but now it's been revised (http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/newsrel/2003cr_newsrelease.htm) all the way down to a negative 0.5 percent. NBER had no way of knowing that then.

[Tom]

As I recall, the economy was quite robust when Clinton left office. We had a SURPLUS in the federal coffers...how big is the deficit now, do you know?

The way I look at it - Bush got rid of Hussein, and that was a good thing. Trying to foist a democracy on a country is quite another.

Clinton wasn't the only president who got a hummer in office. Bush's father had a long affair with one of his top aides, but it wasn't publicized much.

Doc
What would you have us do in Iraq? We have to put some governement in place. There is nothing better than one voted on and apporved by the people. And, btw, the Iraqi's WELCOME the chance for an election. The economy was NOT in good shape at the end of Clinton's term.
And the attack on the USS Cole? Clinton did NOTHING.
Yeah, it sucs to have such a large deficit, but it sucs even more to have such a large debt. But you do not measure a nations worth by it's cash reserves. We cana dn will ovecome debt. Freedom is never cheap.
You might not like Bush, but at least not like him for valid reasons.
HGave we not learned that peace in and of itself is worthless? Freedom is the only thing of value. The Iron cutrain countries had peace before the Soviet Union fell.

[46zilzal]

Have we not learned that peace in and of itself is worthless? Freedom is the only thing of value.
Zabernists unite!!!! We NEED to fight fight fight.....LOCKER ROOM talk for the football team???

[formula_2002]

Here ya go formula:

Now, I ask you again - do you feel that you have a better handle on what is happenning in Iraq than I do? You seem to insinuate that what I speak of seeing is only an illusion, yet most of the troops over here say the same thing. So, please answer my question - do you have a better handle on what is going on here than most of the troops on the ground?

Let me ask you this.. Should I base my judgement of things in Iraq based on what you see and what you believe your fellows see? Is there something you or they may be missing? Or do I base my judgement on all the things I see, hear and read.

Do I base my judgement on my undrestaning of what I read in the Bible and the Koran. Do I base it on my experience of having lived through World War 2, Korea and Vietnam. Do I base it on The history of the world as I know it?

We are but mere men and we make mistakes. In the end, all we can do is, go with our gut and hope we have "killed" as few as possible in seeking to protect ourselves.

You are a soldier. You and every soldier was trained to follow orders. And follow orders you must.
But I'm a civilian, and part of my job it to make sure that you are given the best orders (and equipment, and support) to protect all of us.

Do not be distracted from your duty at hand..Go with it.
And come back safe..

[lsbets]

So your answer is yes, you do know better than those of us on the ground.

My answer is, yes you should weigh very heavily the observations of those who see it forst hand. When the overwhelming majority of soldiers say that things are much better here than is portrayed on the news back home, you should weigh those opinions very heavily and not dismiss them because we were "taught to follow orders". That was a hell of a subtle way to dismiss us as non thinkers. Guess what? Even though we are soldiers, we are also citizens, and many of us, like myself are civilians most of the time. We have the same right to vote you do, and most of us voted for the guy who sent us here. That speaks volumes in and of itself.

[formula_2002]

.... very heavily and not dismiss them because we were "taught to follow orders". That was a hell of a subtle way to dismiss us as non thinkers.

Not at all. It was a tribute to your training..
Your thoughts are not dismissed at all.
But they are not the only thoughts we have to contend with. 10 or 20 years from now, you may not see things the same way and then again you may.. There are no locks.
I'm sorry if you got the wrong message about follwoing orders. Following orders is the key to any military success.

[Tom]

Zabernists unite!!!! We NEED to fight fight fight.....LOCKER ROOM talk for the football team???
Don't they teach reading comprehension in them Mexican med schools?
Read the whole post before you shoot back with your usual ADD replies.
Peace is of no value if you are not free. Would I give up my peace to fight for freedom? Of course, but then where YOU come from, that may not the case.

[46zilzal]

Finland, South Carolina, Bakersfiled CA, Remote Oregon, Mud Lick Kentucky

all the same, folks NEED that enermy so they can BLAME all their woes on SOMEONE ELSE.... and it is usually someone ethnically dissimilar

[wonatthewire1]

<<<And the attack on the USS Cole? Clinton did NOTHING.>>>

Glad to see someone from inside the Beltway making accusations! :cool: :eek:

And what's with all the "Clinton did this, Clinton didn't do that"...crap > hasn't the guy been out of office for going on 5 years? Its not like the Republicans haven't had control of the legislative branch for years.

[Tom]

It is an example of when you compare Clinton and Bush, Bush's accomlishments DRAWF those of slick Willy. Bush is fighting the war on terror; Clinton fought the war on horniness.

[wonatthewire1]

Thanks for the reply!

And it is DWARF...

Emotion can lead to spelling mistakes :(

In addition, thanks for the succinct analysis, I always appreciate those who are, rather than those inherently boring think-tanks.

[wonatthewire1]

And, if you guys can wait a few minutes, I'm going to start my rant against Woodrow Wilson on a new thread.

So, the guy hasn't been around for awhile, but we can still get mad at him!

[Tom]

:kiss: MA

[boxcar]

"The message of the voters of November was that any nation that has done so much for the freedom of strangers, that has brought prosperity and peace to hundreds of millions, that has free elections and a free press – that any nation with such characteristics and such a record deserves the benefit of the doubt. I cannot overemphasize the importance of this point: The worst aspects of the opposition party in the recent election campaign were the doubt that its leaders directed against everything the Bush administration said or did, and the lack of any doubt directed against America’s enemies. In the debate over Iraq’s fate, we saw these leaders and many in the media granting every benefit of the doubt to a mass murdering, neighbor-invading, terrorist-harboring and dictatorial regime." (emphases mine)

The above is an excerpt from great post-election speech Zell Miller deliveried in Washington this past December, and I believe he has really nailed the true significance of the election results -- what, specifically, the majority of real patriotic Americans believed in their heart of hearts and expressed in the voting booths across the Land. In fact, I believe, that depsite what many pre-election issues-type polls showed, this was one election when the majority of Americans "really got it", by unselfishly not voting with only their pocket books in mind. Consequently, this is why Bush won.

I asked the very simple, straight-forward question a week or so ago pertaining to this very issue of "benefit of the doubt", and how it was that Liberals could give all benefit of the doubt to one of the worst dictatorial regimes in the history of the world, and not accord so much as an iota of the benefit of doubt to the Bush Admin., but instead accused the Admin. of lying to the American people for self-serving reasons. I encouraged all Liberals to respond to this question. Only one did...partially. The best 46er could do was demonstrate how conflicted he was,for he said that he didn't trust the Saddam regime, but nonetheless was quite comfortable, also, not trusting the Bush Admin. But there is an implicit contradiction in such an answer.

Here is the link to Miller's speech. Well worth the read, in my opinion.

http://hillsdale.edu/newimprimis/default.htm

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

No longer is the Dubyah a TURNIP..he has lost his title and now is a RUTABAGA

and NOW the rutabaga wants to take 80 BILLION of the U.S. taxpaers money to GIVE to his friends at Bechtel and Brown Kellogg Root for the "reconstruction"...be better to reconstruct MANY of the inner city schools rather than LINE the pockets of the super rich. But that wouldn't work with HIS mandate of screwing the American people for his fat cats.

[boxcar]

46zilzal wrote:

and NOW the rutabaga wants to take 80 BILLION of the U.S. taxpaers money to GIVE to his friends at Bechtel and Brown Kellogg Root for the "reconstruction"...be better to reconstruct MANY of the inner city schools rather than LINE the pockets of the super rich. But that wouldn't work with HIS mandate of screwing the American people for his fat cats.

Of course...but you'd rather screw Americans by throwing more good money after bad into broken down school systems. When will you ever learn that money isn't the solution to all problems -- esepcially our PS systems?

You want to "reconstruct" the PS system? Start here and you'll see almost immediate results: Dump the Teachers' Unions; for these unions never had nor ever will have the best interest of the kids at heart.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

he CBO also projected this year's shortfall will be $368 billion. That was close to the $348 billion deficit for 2005 that it had forecast last fall. The two largest deficits ever in dollar terms were last year's $412 billion and the $377 billion gap of 2003.

The budget office estimated if U.S. troop strength in Iraq and Afghanistan declines gradually after 2006, those wars would add $590 billion to deficits over the next decade. Including war costs, this year's shortfall should hit about $400 billion, the budget office said.

Besides lacking war costs, the budget office's deficit estimates also omitted the price tags of Bush's goal of revamping Social Security, which could cost $1 trillion to $2 trillion and dominate this year's legislative agenda.

Also left out were the price of extending Bush's tax cuts and easing the impact the alternative minimum tax would have on middle-income Americans, which could exceed $2.3 trillion, the report said.

When those items are included, Bush is a long way from his goal of cutting deficits in half by 2009, Democrats said.

"Republicans control the House, the Senate and the White House, but they can't control the budget and they can't escape responsibility for its dismal condition," said Rep. John Spratt (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina, top Democrat on the House Budget Committee.

Republicans used the deficit figures to underscore the need to find budget savings this year, including from popular benefit programs, which include Medicaid.

Give it to your friends and screw the American who paid that money in taxes rather than HELP domestically in our school system. FAT cats WANT to keep the major potion of the population STUPID so they can steal them BLIND!

Short of a good FOUNDATION in school ( and I see this happening in many of the high schoolers I mentor) they start to believe the CRAP they see in movies and television rather than QUESTION, put ideas to the test, or research....they become DELTA's in the Brave New World of Huxley's description

[lsbets]

"FAT cats WANT to keep the major potion of the population STUPID"

I see its already working in one case.

[46zilzal]

yes it is really rampant there in TEXAS....except there at the MED school (Baylor) and the M.D. Anderson Hospital in Houston

[toetoe]

Good take, boxcar, but how many will give Zell Miller the benefit of the doubt. Rather whack, isn't he?