Mob day at the Races

[karlskorner]

www.nydailynews.com/front/story/2713909p-232199c.html

[WINMANWIN]

And the comedy continues at N.Y.R.A, and all over racing. :mad: This time they even had a harness driver, helping out with t-breds....... :D We should start are OWN CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT, and get some RETRIBUTION from
these thieve's. ;)

[karlskorner]

If that URL does not work, try this one

http://www.drf.com/news/article/62011.html

[Storm Cadet]

This will be BIG...http://nypost.com/news/regionalnews/38187.htm :mad:

[John]

This goes on all the time. It will never stop. when ever there is a cash flow.someone will find a way to steal a buck. As I said before, this game went from the "Sport of kings to the Sport of Drugs."

But here is my Question: I would think a horse would have to be fit before he is druged.The horse must show some form or fitness. When I had Back problems.Doctor gave me a drug for the pain.But I did not feel like I could run my head off.nor would I try. I think it was Figman that said," maybe testing for drugs before the race might help. There must be a way to stop it before it happens.

JOHN

[Storm Cadet]

Yes, it's called a receiving barn, all horses must be brought there the day before race day, sort of like a horse jail...it's patroled by the drug test team and nobody can go near the horse except trainer and groom and they are always watched...but all horsemen are opposed to this...would YOU trust your horse to an outside NYRA based group to watch your horse? Good trainers are afraid that someone could/would slip something in their horses feed to inhibit their performance or make their horse positive in a post race test. :eek:

[Pace Cap'n]

. I think it was Figman that said," maybe testing for drugs before the race might help. There must be a way to stop it before it happens.

JOHN

How about this? Let them use any and all drugs they want to. Require full disclosure of which medications are used, or have been used, prior to race time. Have a signed declaration on file in the racing secretary's office.

Test for substances before and after the race. Any non-disclosed substances detected would result in a lifetime ban. For first offense.

How to present this information to the public may be problematical. Perhaps a few more pages required in the DRF.

[Storm Cadet]

I want to know who the vet is taking care of the horse...PUBLISH IT...and keep their standing and stats....wanna make some real $$$$$ ;)

[John]

That is something I don't understand either.If I was a trainer why would I need a Vet to drug my horse. Is it because the vet can get what I need or is it because the trainer wants to build a layer of people between him and the horse,Asst.trainer, Vet, Groom, hot walker,the guy who walks the horse to the paddock,etc.The racing commission says, you as a trainer are responsible,$1000 fine and 30 days suspension, who knows how much the trainer made the times he got away with it.

Hey, we are talking about an animals,not human beings.That makes it alright.Huh

Winmanwin, am I right or am I right.

[Bobby]

EVERY time u turn around, the NYRA is in trouble again. Now it's the Gambino's fixing races. I wonder how many times they fixed a race and didn't get caught because I would bet it ain't the only one.

NY state should let either Magna or Churchill run their tracks. It really puzzles me that NY will not do ANYTHING. I bet they have at least 3 different investigations going on right now, not to mention any sting ops going on behind the scenes. Everyone talks about how the small tracks are so corrupt well how about SAR, BEL, and AQU.

[TOOZ]

I would love to know how much money Martin was offered, and has been receiving that he would risk livelyhood, family, jail, fines, and reputation to do something like this. Standardbred racing has the stigma of being rigged all the time. I'm starting to wonder which breed is rigged more.

[betovernetcapper]

A feature of the DRF article is the link to the horse's chart-To me this improvment (Dec 13th race) doesn't seem all that unlikely.

[WINMANWIN]

I would love to know how much money Martin was offered, and has been receiving that he would risk livelyhood, family, jail, fines, and reputation to do something like this. Standardbred racing has the stigma of being rigged all the time. I'm starting to wonder which breed is rigged more.

His cousin Carlos Martin WON the 1st today at AQUEDUCT paid $14.00 bucks.
This doesn't only happen at N.YR.A this happens, or has occurred at all tracks
Between the drugs, stiff jobs by Jockeys daily, NO ONE should be surprised :confused: LET'S NOT FORGET, THERE'S 3 THINGS IN LIFE WE CAN BE SURE OF, DEATH, TAXES, AND JOCKEY'S NEVER PASSING A POLYGRAPH ;)

[karlskorner]

I doubt if any money was involved, he probably was made an "OFFER HE COULDN'T REFUSE "

[John]

Wake up Karl, He had to be offered a lot of money. we are talking about jail here. If I offered you a half million to do something that might put you in jail for a few years. would you do it.

[cj]

Wake up Karl, He had to be offered a lot of money. we are talking about jail here. If I offered you a half million to do something that might put you in jail for a few years. would you do it.

Where would I have to serve my time? Answer that, I'll give you an answer! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

EVERY time u turn around, the NYRA is in trouble again. Now it's the Gambino's fixing races. I wonder how many times they fixed a race and didn't get caught because I would bet it ain't the only one.

NY state should let either Magna or Churchill run their tracks.


Are you kidding me? Did you read the article? It said that MORE INDICTMENTS are COMING because of similar "fixes" that happened at tracks in:

CALIFORNIA & FLORIDA

Last time I checked, NYRA doesn't run any racetracks in those locales. So watch out Magna and Churchill Downs....maybe you guys will lose your franchise as well..... :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, I don't know if you guys read the quotes that Suff posted from NYRA CEO Charles Hayward, but if you did, you'd realize he was hinting at these sorts of actions. This is good for racing. Get rid of these cheating bums.

However, this really has nothing to do with NYRA. It's a sport-wide problem, and you all know this. You complain about this month after month on this very website. I read it every day, I should know. You guys in California know very well what I'm talking about.

Don't try and heap this on NYRA and make it another piece of the "they don't deserve their franchise, give it to Magna/Churchill" bull puzzle. It doesn't fit.

[WINMANWIN]

I say we start a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT against these slimes. It may linger for awhile, but who cares. We need some one with some law background to get it started. Even if we have 1 million players in the suit, It would be Joyfull
to make them pay, I dont care if I ever get a dime, They could donate the money to childrens hospitals or whatever good cause they can think of. This
NONSENSE has been going on forever, and the HORSE INDUSTRY KEEPS GETTING AWAY WITH IT. All other companies, industries must face the music
when the shit hits the fan, and LAWSUITS are initiated. It's time the t-bred
and trooters Pay up.

[betovernetcapper]

Prosecutors said the 17 people arrested yesterday ran a ring that operated in five states — New York, New Jersey, Florida, Nevada and New Hampshire. Thirteen of them were arrested in New York City and all were released on bail.

Authorities said the ring used betting parlors in the United Kingdom, the island of Curacao, Fargo, N.D., and the Tonkawa Indian Reservation in Tonkawa, Okla.

Under the elaborate scheme, the ring provided clients with special account numbers and PIN numbers that allowed them to bet anonymously by phone and on the Internet.

To satisfy IRS requirements, the leaders of the ring assigned Social Security numbers to each betting account — their own, not their customers. This allowed bettors to avoid reporting winnings to the government, the indictment said.

Unless I'm misreading this the government is going after illegal (read untaxed) betting. I don't think the feds care at all about a milkshake or two. :)

[karlskorner]

What you are saying, sounds logical in a laymans world. We are talking the
" Gambino Family " here. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Try www.ganglandnews.com/ to read how they and other "fanmlies" invite themselves into a business.

[WINMANWIN]

[
Unless I'm misreading this the government is going after illegal (read untaxed) betting. I don't think the feds care at all about a milkshake or two. :)[/QUOTE]

So far 1 nyra trainer has been suspended and who knows how many more
in the days mths to come. Do to the MILK SHAKING scheme, that's how they
made money in N.Y. FLA and Calif, this is gonna be widespread and when the
law puts the clamps on these Gents, it only takes 1 rat to make every 1 go
down, then u have the other rats plea dealing etc. The MILK SHAKING IS
GONNA INVOLVE MORE TRAINERS, IN N.Y. FLA, AND CALIF :(

[betovernetcapper]

Winmanwin
Trainers are suspended every day.
The people who are being arested are being charged in regard to bookmaking/IRS violations. Mafia fixes races just makes a better headline.

[BetHorses!]

Where would I have to serve my time? Answer that, I'll give you an answer! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Would I be able to keep the money? ;)

[Figman]

How come this guy hasn't served any suspension?
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/99451p-89968c.html

[Tom]

I say we start a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT against these slimes. It may linger for awhile, but who cares. We need some one with some law background to get it started. Even if we have 1 million players in the suit, It would be Joyfull
to make them pay, I dont care if I ever get a dime, They could donate the money to childrens hospitals or whatever good cause they can think of. This
NONSENSE has been going on forever, and the HORSE INDUSTRY KEEPS GETTING AWAY WITH IT. All other companies, industries must face the music
when the shit hits the fan, and LAWSUITS are initiated. It's time the t-bred
and trooters Pay up.

Cool idea. Personal civil suits agains the owner, trainer, jockey, and race track. McDonals paid millions for serving hot coffee. Image what could happen when the suits are based on real damages. :eek:

[JustRalph]

when they start listing what races were "Fixed" I am sure some enterprising young Lawyer will advertise for anyone who can prove they bet on the race, and lost. Pretty easy to do now days with the record keeping on Internet accounts.

[Lasix1]

How about this? Let them use any and all drugs they want to. Require full disclosure of which medications are used, or have been used, prior to race time. Have a signed declaration on file in the racing secretary's office.

This is obviously a bad idea because the consequences of such a policy involve a sentient being, not a motorcycle, and not just the bettors. Does anyone on this board besides me actually care about the magnificent animals that make our sport?

[Pace Cap'n]

[QUOTE=Pace Cap'n]How about this? Let them use any and all drugs they want to. Require full disclosure of which medications are used, or have been used, prior to race time. Have a signed declaration on file in the racing secretary's office.QUOTE]

This is obviously a bad idea because the consequences of such a policy involve a sentient being, not a motorcycle, and not just the bettors. Does anyone on this board besides me actually care about the magnificent animals that make our sport?

Your point is well taken.

I considered that and should have addressed it in the post. If all substances were public knowledge (full disclosure), then it would be possible to have "ehtical watchdogs" in place to curtail any abuse of treatments. As it is now, who knows?

Perhaps the penalty phase could be taken a step further to include banning the horse and owner(s) as well should violations or abuse occur.

I wholeheartedly concur the animals need protection.

[Lasix1]

Thanks, Pace. I appreciate your clarification and know now that you share my concern about this.

[PaceAdvantage]

Does anyone on this board besides me actually care about the magnificent animals that make our sport?

No, of course not! We're all heartless bastards. You are the only noble one among us..... :rolleyes:

Do you get the concept of "intense discussion involving a singular topic?"

If you do, you'll realize that just because the subject of the horse's physical well being is not being specifically addressed at this very moment, this does not preclude the fact that a majority of us care deeply about the horses being subjected to these various "chemists" on a daily basis.

[WINMANWIN]

Winmanwin
Trainers are suspended every day.
The people who are being arested are being charged in regard to bookmaking/IRS violations. Mafia fixes races just makes a better headline.

They certainly do, Today's N.Y.papers had 3 guys Father, Brother, and Son belonging to 2 different N.Y.crime families... :eek: It can get a little deeper
now for trainers that are linked , to this sort of thing, As the trainer that was arrested in N.Y. YESTERDAY was released on $100,000 bond as were all the
others. Like I stated in another thread, When they start offering deals to
everyone they prosecute, they will get MANY OTHERS. It depends if prosecutors wanna go for the Everyone, or lay low. After all, It is a BIG INDUSTRY.

[hurrikane]

I think this is a lot more about the mob and the IRS than about racing.

we'll see how it plays out. As far as i'm concerned every person owning any part of a horse should be listed in the owner info. This is a big flaw in the industry. You can' tell who owns what.

[TOOZ]

I wonder if Migliore got a bet in after the instructions he received from Martin were "just don't fall off".

[Lasix1]

I'm glad to know that. As a newcomer to the board, it wasn't all that clear to me from the language being used. Thanks for putting me in my place.

[PaceAdvantage]

Lasix, I apologize if my tone was a little harsh. In retrospect, I probably should not have written that reply.....

[Lasix1]

Dear P-A,

Many thanks for your gracious apology. The passions run high on this issue, and the tone of my original post, in retrospect, was sufficiently sanctimonious as to invite just such a response as the one you gave. In any event, it was gracious of you to apologize, and I want you to know how much we all appreciate your stewardship of the Forum. best wishes--L1
:)

[formula_2002]

I could have given these guys a better deal with my craps hedge play deduction and it all would have been legal!! gezz!!

[Tom]

I do agree with Lasix1.....the treatment theses thugs are giving the horses is proof enough that are totally unbfit to around animals (other thier mob bosses) and should receive mandatory lifetime bans from access to all racetracks for first offence milshaking. Low life scum balls like this have place on any track for any purpose, and if they own farms, they should be forced to give them up.

[Suff]

They certainly do, Today's N.Y.papers had 3 guys Father, Brother, and Son belonging to 2 different N.Y.crime families... :eek: It INDUSTRY.

Cousin Carlos has one one in the 4th today.
Rhondas Number #10, 2-1 ML FAV

[Suff]

Cousin Carlos has one one in the 4th today.
Rhondas Number #10, 2-1 ML FAV

She won.... $6.90. 10-7 Zacta $21.00

[formula_2002]

Cousin Carlos has one one in the 4th today.
Rhondas Number #10, 2-1 ML FAV

Ok so the beast wins, so how do I claim a tax loss on the winning horse?

"And it allowed the ring leaders to claim gambling losses on their tax returns, resulting in "massive tax windfalls," said U.S. Attorney David Kelley. One of the five, Anthony Uvari, 40 received a tax re fund of $156,794 in 2003, the indictment said. Another, David Appelbaum, 55, of Ardsley, Westchester, received $65,000 in tax relief by reporting $1.1 million in gambling losses that year. "

[WINMANWIN]

She won.... $6.90. 10-7 Zacta $21.00


Nice call Suff, In that field if that steed wasn't 1st or 2nd I would BLAME THE JOCK :mad: Get ready for a dandy today in Boston... COLTS-PATS :cool:

[WINMANWIN]

Ok so the beast wins, so how do I claim a tax loss on the winning horse?

"And it allowed the ring leaders to claim gambling losses on their tax returns, resulting in "massive tax windfalls," said U.S. Attorney David Kelley. One of the five, Anthony Uvari, 40 received a tax re fund of $156,794 in 2003, the indictment said. Another, David Appelbaum, 55, of Ardsley, Westchester, received $65,000 in tax relief by reporting $1.1 million in gambling losses that year. "


They are PRO GAMBLERS AND FILE AS SUCH ON THERE TAX RETURNS.....
Jesus how Gut Wrenching...... :(

[Suff]

Nice call Suff, In that field if that steed wasn't 1st or 2nd I would BLAME THE JOCK :mad: Get ready for a dandy today in Boston... COLTS-PATS :cool:


Butchy..

I tossed him.. LOL.. I played a 4 wide early Pick 4 ticket and did'nt even use him. Not just because of the 10 post... and not just because his previous two were ITM efforts and I thought Both were overrated ...

I tossed him because I figured whatever is going on down there... certainly his COUSIN would'nt be gaffing right now.. and if the horse had to run on pure talent I did'nt think she'd get it done.. and I was wrong...

[formula_2002]

They are PRO GAMBLERS AND FILE AS SUCH ON THERE TAX RETURNS.....
Jesus how Gut Wrenching...... :(

Hold on, this sounds like Abbott and Costello .

I bet $2.00 on the winning horse..and show a profit of say $2.00, but since I'm a pro, I get deduction for what?

[WINMANWIN]

Butchy..

I tossed him.. LOL.. I played a 4 wide early Pick 4 ticket and did'nt even use him. Not just because of the 10 post... and not just because his previous two were ITM efforts and I thought Both were overrated ...

I tossed him because I figured whatever is going on down there... certainly his COUSIN would'nt be gaffing right now.. and if the horse had to run on pure talent I did'nt think she'd get it done.. and I was wrong...

I know the feeling all to well, He beat me stretching out and taking to the mud in the 1st the other day..... :D That trainer Bailes had the feautured
Winner yesterday. Today I liked this steed named Christmas Away WHO HE TRAINS ALSO. Steed was a tiger today, nice steed for $7,500 claimer, he also ran 2nd in the 2nd with same Jock Garcia. :cool:

[WINMANWIN]

Hold on, this sounds like Abbott and Costello .

I bet $2.00 on the winning horse..and show a profit of say $2.00, but since I'm a pro, I get deduction for what?

Obviously they had losses, Guess Pro's dont always WIN, Unless they know
WHO IS SHAKING, OR STIFFING........... :D

[JustRalph]

they can also claim business expenses etc.......right? Office space...? Computers? just like any other business?

[formula_2002]

[QUOTE=WINMANWIN]Obviously they had losses, Guess Pro's dont always WIN, Unless they know
WHO IS SHAKING, OR STIFFING........... :D[/QUOte

If they deducted the losses against their winning, how do the get the rebate from the IRS..

Also if you are going to win the race by cheating, why is that same guy reporting his winning to the IRS??..

Nope, the tax rebate portion of this scheme makes no sense.

The key is to leverage your losses, there by decreasing the tax obligation, like I described in the craps scenario.

[PaceAdvantage]

I tossed him because I figured whatever is going on down there... certainly his COUSIN would'nt be gaffing right now.. and if the horse had to run on pure talent I did'nt think she'd get it done.. and I was wrong...

Suff, I'm disappointed in your allegation.