Why the lack of demand?

[Observer]

Let me start off by saying I apologize to anyone who gets annoyed at this message being posted here, as it was a response on a thread on the "Racing" side. But I just thought it was an appropriate fit here for some serious discussion, since this is where the serious players hang out.

As consumers, we generally tend to shop around to get the best deal or bang for our buck, or stick with a provider that offers great service, even if the price is a bit more. Why isn't this done when it comes to racing? Why don't most serious players shop around for the best deals for their plays? Maybe if the players showed tracks just who deserves their wagering dollars, the tracks would be more willing to compete for those wagering dollars, as in lowering takeouts, as opposed to raising them, or offering deals for their high-rollers, or really trying to make every effort to put on a solid, daily card.

[superfecta]

I think the fact that there are so many horses and types of races,it is hard enough to card a good day of races,much less one that can appeal to every handicapper.Everyone has different ways of betting,so what looks like a good bet to you,may not appeal to me.
This is good in one respect,makes for good payoffs ,but it also allows the tracks to run over its customer base,figuring somebody will play our races,no matter how hard we try to run them off.
Same goes for the owners and trainers I'd guess,they gotta run somewhere,and even though their home track is not the best,they can't pick and choose and move horses all over the country.Not the lower level horses anyway.

[smf]

Observer,

This is beyond a racing topic imho, amd s/b contemplated by all players and re-examined from time to time. It affects the business of racing and the people that provide the funds (us) to keep it profitable for owners and tracks.

In short, I wonder the same about this, myself. I will always give the Fairgrounds my business in the winter. Woodbine and NYRA have also provided the public w/ good ideas and progressive moves that help us (bettors). Why we all don't send more of our money to these org's is beyond me.

In lone star's case, they make a big deal out of "internet & phone wagering is illegal in Texas". Most of the people in the simo (Pavillion) believe that line, even our outstanding writer for the DMN, Gary West, writes that line up from time to time.

According to the new LS owner's people (magna/ xpressbet), phone and net wagering IS legal here, and directed me on the txrc site where the "loophole" was 2 years ago. Tx hasn't tried to shut em down since "call-a-bet" called the TX bluff in 1999. (doesn't mean that loophole stays open after the next legislative session, tho).

So, here in TX, the mindset of the masses is that LS is the only place to wager on horses without punitive action set against them. No casinos or anyplace else for the "gambler". Lone spare park has a captive audience in their eyes as long as they "keep em confused" as a con artist would say.

That kind of management tactic (hold an idle threat vs the customer) is a turn off to me. I contrast the way lone star runs their business vs the Fairgrounds for example. Lone star refused for years (and may still refuse) to allow their track feed on the net and didn't allow TRN to air their signal.

The Fairgrounds OTOH can be seen on any access point possible. Net feed, TRN, TVG, youbet, etc, it's all there for the people that want good racing that has easy access.

Also, the stonewalling and habitual lying that lone star throws up consistently on customers is completely uncalled for. If someone emails Bryan Krantz a serious question during FG's racing season, HE will answer your post, usually within 24 hours. That is the track OWNER! You won't get that kind of timely attention from lone star mgmnt. It's been tried, it hasn't happened.

Good topic, Observer.

[Lefty]

In the land of the 6 horse race (CA) they are thinking about RAISING the track take.
Beam me up Scotty.

[Handle]

Very interesting concept -- power to the people.

The problem is that you pay a lot of attention to a particular track -- the horses there, the trainers, and how the track plays. You have a lot invested, so its difficult to just up and take your tack to a different place in favor of better service. The tracks know this.

I think that the people that have the most say in this is the Trainers and owners. They are the ones that are in most advantageous position for putting a thorn in the side of a track. If they take they're barns elsewhere, the tracks will suffer immediately. However, higher take out often (supposedly) equates to higher purses -- so I doubt trainers are going to be on the side of the players in this type of battle.

-Handle

[smf]

Handle,

I disagree. Owners run their horses for purses. The purses are fed mostly from bettors making wagers. If you don't bet on their horses, they move on, or move out.

[Handle]

SMF,

What you're saying is true. I'm just saying that its hard for a serious player to move to a different track - they have lots invested in the particular track/circuit they are playing. Yet, when a trainer decides to move its big news.

I wonder -- who do the tracks try to please the most? (Other than themselves). Is it the owners, trainers, or players? Who has the most power to affect the tracks? Certainly, as a collective the players do - but they are the least organized. The trainers are the ones that control the most power -- since a single trainer may have many horses under his/her control and they also have the communications with management that most players don't have.

-Handle

[ranchwest]

At Lone Star, I wonder if anyone has an impact.

I know I talked to Donnie Von Hemel one time and he told me that he was very disappointed that LS decided to have night racing. He said that with his schedule, getting up probably before the roosters, night racing was difficult.

It seems that Lone Star only caters to high rollers who are looking for entertainment, not specifically horse racing.

[takeout]

I think Whirlaway's post in the "5%" thread points out nicely what can happen when a player switches or takes on new tracks without having the same degree of familiarity with them. A couple of points in takeout isn't going to make up for that lack of knowledge. I'm all for lower takeouts (hence my moniker) but unless it's a pretty meaningful reduction I can't see it drawing many players of the type that have put in a lot of preliminary work on their home circuit. Probably a lot easier to run them off with a raised takeout and treatment like I've been reading about at Lone Star. I would also think that once they've been run off that it would be hell to get them back. Just my theory.

[karlskorner]

This afternoon at Gulfstream about 3 O'clock, everyone was just mellowing, 80 degrees, a soft breeze coming in from the Gulf stream, a couple of fat clouds in the sky, all the flowers in the infield in bloom and I had the proceeds of 3 "key races" in my pocket, I leaned over to the people in front of me and said " you know, it just don't get any better than this". I don't think I could care less what the "takeout" is or how bad it has gotten since Mr. Stronch etal took over, if you just go with the flow it's been a good 15 years.

Karl

[smf]

kkorner,

Hope you enjoyed the Milli Vanilli concert while you were sniffin flowers.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by smf
kkorner,

Hope you enjoyed the Milli Vanilli concert while you were sniffin flowers.
Vanilli is dead,smf,now its just one guy Milli'n around.....