Question for Randy Giles-Pace Appraiser fans/users

[oswaldrha]

Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.

The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.

[BroadwayJoe]

Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.

The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Better off putting this in the SOFTWARE SECTION...

and you might get an answer from PartsNut ( Bill H)

[shoelessjoe]

Agree Partsnut was very good when he was using the program

[woodbinepmi]

Hi folks,
I wanted to ask a question for those of you who use Randy Giles' Pace Appraiser software or his Extreme Pace Handicapping approach in general.

The Pace Appraiser software identifies horses with a pattern called 2dEPB, which stands for 2-dimensional Early Horse running in a Pace Box. For whatever reason, I cannot find any information on what exactly a Pace Box is (as Mr. Giles defines it) or how you identify and use it in your handicapping/betting decisions. If there is anyone here who can lend some insight on this, I waould greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Have you emailed Randy himself? He has always answered any questions I have asked him.

[Strike The Gold]

Just an FYI: I had sent an email to pace@paceappraiser.com but did not get a reply. Made me wonder if the software is still being offered.

[Speed Figure]

He's out of business!

[Dave Schwartz]

FWIW, Randy's idea of counting the number of 5+ horses (Quirin ES Pts) was brilliant.

It has become a real game changer over the years for HSH users.

[Michael]

FWIW, Randy's idea of counting the number of 5+ horses (Quirin ES Pts) was brilliant.

It has become a real game changer over the years for HSH users.

Was it Randy's idea or did it come from Cox? I recall first reading about that idea in Davidowitz's Betting thoroughbreds where he said Cox re-introduced the idea to him.

That said, I do agree the idea is very practical and brilliant.

[Dave Schwartz]

Was it Randy's idea or did it come from Cox? I recall first reading about that idea in Davidowitz's Betting thoroughbreds where he said Cox re-introduced the idea to him.

That said, I do agree the idea is very practical and brilliant.

Ron Cox?

[Michael]

Ron Cox?

I'm fairly sure the idea came from Ron Cox. The pressure gauge measure is more or less just a play off of Ron's idea.

[Partsnut]

I'm fairly sure the idea came from Ron Cox. The pressure gauge measure is more or less just a play off of Ron's idea.


From my understanding, the idea of speed points and running style was
originated by Dr. William Quirin.
Randy Giles just elaborated on Dr. Quirin's. idea.

Randy Giles Pace Pressure Gauge was contrived from Dr. Quirin's idea.
These numbers were visually portrayed on Randy's interactive web site.
Randy accurately formulated his own speed and pace numbers and gave a more accurate depiction of a horses running style.

The Giles method was derived from Quirin's works but was a unique stand alone application in it's own right.

He has also written a published book on "Extreme Pace Handicapping".
Which more or less portrays how his unique method was derived.



I am not familiar with Ron Cox.

Please let us all know who he is or was and what he has written, done or otherwise created.

[headhawg]

According to Davidowitz, Ron Cox was a professional player who published trip notes and pace figs in the Northern California Track Record.

Page 150 of the Second Revised edition of Betting Thoroughbreds: Regarding Quirin's speed points, "Cox reintroduced this method to me in 1991, and I have found that it has worked wonderfully predicting hot and soft pace structures..."

"When three horses in a given race combine for 21-24 speed points or four have a combined total of 27+..."

I saw no mention of the 5+ speed point horses idea, per se. I have the first edition of Betting Thoroughbreds but I am too lazy to see if it's in there. Interestingly Davidowitz wrote, "Cox is totally unprepared to state that his numbers would work (at tracks other than in Northern California)". [My edit]

What would be interesting is knowing if there is any significant predictive difference when comparing speed totals using 5+ horses versus 6+. I think HTR uses 6+ as a factor, but I am not sure.

[Tom]

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46998

[Dave Schwartz]

Ron Cox was a friend.

Yes, he and Dan Montilian (PA member) worked on the Northern California Track Record together.

Ron died way too young.

Seems I only speak with Danny about once a year now, when he gets my pars.

Both fine men.

[Dave Schwartz]

A little late but Tome really pointed to the whole story.

Thanks, Tom.

[Dan Montilion]

Thanks Dave. This was bizarre, I was studying one of Daves excellent videos and out of the blue a private message from Dave about this thread.

In regards to the pace pressure gauge, this was not a Ron Cox invention if you will. Davidowitz mentions in his revision of BETTING THOROUGHBREDS that Ron re-introduced QSP to Steve.

In Davidowitz pace chapter Ron is quoted as saying his/our approach to pace and final figures may not work on other circuits. Years of working with Ron I can concur the approach to pace would likely not work on other circuits. In fact, though I have not been a NoCal player in. years I don't feel it would work in NoCal.

The pace/final approach we used for our own play as well as distributed to subscribers of the NORTHERN CALIFORNIA TRACK RECORD was powerful beyond belief. Though as Davidowitz points out it was only with in its small set of races in NoCal. It was brought to Ron by a subscriber, it was really for 6F races only which in those days were 95% of the sprints run on said circuit. 4 people on the planet at that time knew how to do the figures, Ron, Paul Braseth, the originator and myself. Ron and Paul have passed and I lost touch of the developer.

So what was so special about them. If two races went 22-0 45-0 110-0 on differing days, yet the pace and final variant were the same, they could and very likely would have different figures on the pace end. So now I have opened myself to prove it. I can't. The original developer swore us to secrecy. Good Lord that sounds like an ad for a system. I don't know if the originator is still among us or not, but I will honor his request. Besides with multiple distances on most tracks/circuits it is really not relevant now. However, I did use it at Oaklawn park as 6F races abound and it was like going back in time. I used Dave's Horsestreet pars as a starting point.