All Ukraine Troops to pull out of Iraq

[Secretariat]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050110/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_iraq

[46zilzal]

Smart move

[Tom]

Don't need that bucnh of mutha-rapers and swine anyways. They must need help back home counting their oil-for-food money.
You guys seem actually happy to see that people who made committments to help establish a free country turn coward and run away. Teaving those behind at the mercy of the terroists.
You two sure do have a very weak character. The time to decide not to help has long passed.
People like you are the terrorist's best friends.

[46zilzal]

People like you are the terrorist's best friends.

Folks have bought this line of garbage LOCK, STOCK, AND BARREL.

Like the old Hatfiled and McCoy fued: "You're either with me or 'aggin me!"

[Tom]

Once you make a commitment, you keep it. That is integrity.
If they chose not to go in the first place, that would be different.
Like I said, it is the weak willed quitters like you who encourage them.
But bottom line, you ARE either with us or against us when it comes to terrorism.
Do you live in Spain?

[46zilzal]

But bottom line, you ARE either with us or against us when it comes to terrorism.

When LUDICROUS attempts at trying to change what is, by MURDING thousands of innocents bystanders, it is time to be against the process!

[JustRalph]

When LUDICROUS attempts at trying to change what is, by MURDING thousands of innocents bystanders, it is time to be against the process!

Once again....46 is worried about those on the ground and not our troops, or their mission. You are becoming more and more transparent. And BTW........the "thousands of innocent bystanders" is once again an exageration on your part.

[cj]

Smart move

How can we ever bear such a drastic loss to the military power of the coalition? Sadaam will be back in power any day now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[46zilzal]

Rather than grab the bait of this moronic position of being "With" one side or the other, I choose to back NEITHER in this ridiculous and compeltely FALSE war.

People dying for NOTHING, on either side, is stupidity

[ljb]

from 46
I choose to back NEITHER in this ridiculous and compeltely FALSE war.
Well put 46, I support our troops but not the silly fools that put them there.

[Secretariat]

How can we ever bear such a drastic loss to the military power of the coalition? Sadaam will be back in power any day now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Interesting. Ukraine was the fourth largest coalition force, yet you mock the size of their commitment.

When your fourth largest coalition force withdraws, even the WH acknowledged their disapointment.

Is it you think their force was too small? How could that be? It is a coalition of the willing.

[sq764]

Rather than grab the bait of this moronic position of being "With" one side or the other, I choose to back NEITHER in this ridiculous and compeltely FALSE war.

People dying for NOTHING, on either side, is stupidity

You seem like you choose NEITHER all the time, based on your prez vote too..

Nothing like a whiner who does absolutely nothing about it when he has the chance..

[46zilzal]

All of the opinion here IN ANY ARENA means didly, because none of us are movers and shakers, so no matter where you side, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE: the fat cats will do and propagandize whatever THEY want.

[sq764]

So why do we even bother having elections?

[Tom]

He is making my case that he is weak willed and a quitter.
Thank you for your support, 46. :D

[46zilzal]

Yes that WEAK will carried me through medical school...VERY WEAK

[Tom]

Somebody send me an apple every day, PLEASE! :D

[JustRalph]

Somebody send me an apple every day, PLEASE! :D

very nice..............;)

[sq764]

Yes that WEAK will carried me through medical school...VERY WEAK

No wonder malpractice in skyrocketing..

[46zilzal]

And BTW........the "thousands of innocent bystanders" is once again an exageration on your part.

Last week, U.S. and Iraqi researchers - writing in the respected British medical journal, The Lancet - estimated that the Iraqi death toll associated with the invasion and occupation of Iraq was about 100,000 "and may be much higher."

[Secretariat]

Once you make a commitment, you keep it. That is integrity.
If they chose not to go in the first place, that would be different.


You forgot one thing. Ukraine went into Iraq based on the danger of WMD's, not to create a democracy in Iraq. Obviously, they've re-evaluated since the reason they were told has been pretty much debunked by Bush's own inspectors.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050113/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq_weapons

Remember, other countries may not be interested in nation building democracies abroad, even if the Bush admin is.

[Tom]

So you condone quitting too. Should have known. Must be a liberal thing, no follow thorugh.
Funnny how you shallow guys are so concerned about the non-leathal treatment of known battlefield terrorists in Abu Grad, but you always turn a complete deaf ear and blind eye to Iraq's being killed by thier own people. Tens of thousands gassed by SH, people put aline into chippers, current terrorists car bombing, killing police, trying to prevent free elections so that the terrorist might re-calim Iraq - and all you libs could give a shat about them. You would love to see everyone pull out and the decent Iraqi's masacred, just like after the first gulf War. You guys are real, sickening hippoicrits. I suggest massive air strickes to obliterate known pockets of resistance and you guys cry about innocent people caught in the crossfire, but yuou would today sentence them to death becasue of your blind hatred of Bush. You libs live in cartoon world where Michael Moorse is your hero., Try living in the real world for a while.
Direct question....Sec....should ALL foreign forces withdraw from Iraq immediately? Yes or no?

[46zilzal]

On the cover of the book Banana Republicans by Stauber and Rampton is the FINITE ENCAPSULATION of all I hear here: ALL IS BLACK and WHITE, there are no shades of gray.

On the cover one guy is saying to the other: "Yessir, You're either with the Reublican Pary or you're with the Terroritsts, there is NO middle ground....."

and if anyone DARES TAKE that position, OUT comes all the name calling and compartmentalizing into the "enemy."

[Secretariat]

Direct question....Sec....should ALL foreign forces withdraw from Iraq immediately? Yes or no?

Well, I am a strong beleiver in letting the Iraqi people vote. And according to the polls in Iraq, their vote by majority of Iraqi people has been "YES, ALL FOREIGN TROOPS SHOULD WITHDRAW". That is what the majority of Iraqi's have voted for after being polled time and time again.

Currently, the three largest coalition countries in Iraq are the US, Britain, and Australia. Three predominatly caucasian countries, three predominantly Christian countries. Do you really beleive that you can force a democracy down Muslim's throats by the battle of a gun? Regardless if we have troops over there or not, civil war is coming between Sunni and Shiite. Sistani's closest aide was assasinated today. Ukraine thought the war was about WMD's. By the WH''s own admission there were no WMD's.

I remember the arguments about Vietnam. I hear the same ones over again. I don't want to see our soldiers killed over there anymore. We're not giving Iraqi troops sufficient body armor to protect themselves anyway. After this election, much like the turnover to Allawi in June of 04, violence will continue, and it will be just like it was. It won't really get settled until we're out of there.

So in answer to your question. I think the Ukraine plan is a good one. Six months after election withdraw. Provide Iraqi forces with whatever safety equipment we can and leave it up to them to fight for their democracy, as we did our own in the American Revolution.

[Tom]

"So in answer to your question. I think the Ukraine plan is a good one. Six months after election withdraw. Provide Iraqi forces with whatever safety equipment we can and leave it up to them to fight for their democracy, as we did our own in the American Revolution."

This is such nonsense. You cannot compare at any level the situation in Iraq today and America in the 1700's. Your alleged concerns for Iraqi poeple is so shallow. You have earned the title: Ferrous Cranus.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm

[Secretariat]

"So in answer to your question. I think the Ukraine plan is a good one. Six months after election withdraw. Provide Iraqi forces with whatever safety equipment we can and leave it up to them to fight for their democracy, as we did our own in the American Revolution."

This is such nonsense. You cannot compare at any level the situation in Iraq today and America in the 1700's. Your alleged concerns for Iraqi poeple is so shallow. You have earned the title: Ferrous Cranus.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm

Tom,

You're right about one thing. I don't really care a great deal about the Iraqi people, not enough to have Americans lose their lives for. I do feel Bush has put them in this situation and our government is obligated to provide money and equipment to protect their new democracy, but I don't think our soliders should be in the line after they've voted at the end of this month.

I agree you can't compare the American Revolution with the Iraqi occupation. In America we rose up and fought for democracy and while we received some assistance from the French it ended shortly after major military operations ended. According to GW major military operations ended about a year and a half ago. So not sure why we need to still be there. At least the WMD myth, if true, represented an actual danger to America. Nation building in Iraq while we have the largest deficits in history is just insane especially when Bush cries about the insovlency of the Social Security system and borrows from Homeland Security for the richest inaugural gala in history, and pays the media to promote his agenda with taxpayer funds.

If it wasn't so sad, it'd be laughable.

[Tom]

And still, when it came down to voting, the American people looked at national security and in spite of all you have said, they chose Bush.
Like Kerry, all you libs do is whine and pout. Maybe if the DNC grew some stones and actually stood up and tried DO something instead of complianing, they would get a shop at one branch of government. Oh, wait, they do control one branch - Janitorial!

Remenber what I posted about a year ago? Something to the effect of the Dem candidate's debate? All those losers on one stage - Screaming Howard, Sharpton, Clark......talk about so funny it was sad. You guys don't like it the way it is, go loook in a mirror-YOU guys have failed to be a responsible party, to offer vialble leadership, to understand what America wants. Bush got in because people felt safe with him at the helm.

[sq764]

Sec, how much taxpayer money was paid for Clinton's little impeachment 'mis-step'??

[Secretariat]

Sec, how much taxpayer money was paid for Clinton's little impeachment 'mis-step'??

And again the diversion to Clinton rather than addressing the issue.

[sq764]

And again the diversion to Clinton rather than addressing the issue.
The issue is wasted money spent by the government.. Correct? Or are Dems excluded?

[sq764]

..or is it that you forgot they are allowed to be president?? :D

[Secretariat]

The issue is wasted money spent by the government.. Correct? Or are Dems excluded?

You forget that the money spent on the Clinton impeachment derived intially from continued partisan investigations by a Republican House that amounted to nothing. Travelgate, Whitewater - none of which resulted in any allegation against the Clintons relating to the Presidency being proven against them. The only thing you got Clinton on was his lying about receiving oral sex in the WH. Frankly, it pales in consideration to the fiscal waste of this adminstration. I don't approve of Clinton's actions, or many of his policies, but Bush has got to qualfiy as the worst President in my lifetime and that now includes Nixon. Never thought I'd see that day.

This guy spends money like water and keeps borrowing to do it while he plans for record setting expensive ball with taxpayer money. And to think these Repubs call themselves fiscally conservative. They're the most liberal spenders that have ever occupied the WH. And to top it off, they borrow from future generations to do it. What moral values. Run up your kid's credit card.

[JustRalph]

but Bush has got to qualfiy as the worst President in my lifetime and that now includes Nixon. Never thought I'd see that day.

Are you clicking your heels together with the Ruby Red Slippers when you say this? Keep trying .......... somebody might start believing it if you keep saying......right????

[sq764]

You forget that the money spent on the Clinton impeachment derived intially from continued partisan investigations by a Republican House that amounted to nothing. Travelgate, Whitewater - none of which resulted in any allegation against the Clintons relating to the Presidency being proven against them. The only thing you got Clinton on was his lying about receiving oral sex in the WH. Frankly, it pales in consideration to the fiscal waste of this adminstration. I don't approve of Clinton's actions, or many of his policies, but Bush has got to qualfiy as the worst President in my lifetime and that now includes Nixon. Never thought I'd see that day.

This guy spends money like water and keeps borrowing to do it while he plans for record setting expensive ball with taxpayer money. And to think these Repubs call themselves fiscally conservative. They're the most liberal spenders that have ever occupied the WH. And to top it off, they borrow from future generations to do it. What moral values. Run up your kid's credit card.

Well, in my working years, my taxes have gone down, our stock portfolio has gone up and our wages have gone up.. Should I be complaining?

[Tom]

(sing)

He might not be so thick-heaeded,
Bush not seem so dreaded,
If only he had a clue,

He could calm down all those rages,
he gets reading lib-web pages,
If only he had a clue!

Might even find it pleasin'
to figure using reason,
If only he had a clue,

:kiss:

[46zilzal]

January 14th, 2005 12:05 pm
Iraq New Terror Breeding Ground; War Created Haven, CIA Advisers Report

By Dana Priest / Washington Post

Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.

Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."

Low's comments came during a rare briefing by the council on its new report on long-term global trends. It took a year to produce and includes the analysis of 1,000 U.S. and foreign experts. Within the 119-page report is an evaluation of Iraq's new role as a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists.

President Bush has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.

"At the moment," NIC Chairman Robert L. Hutchings said, Iraq "is a magnet for international terrorist activity."

Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.

Bush described the war in Iraq as a means to promote democracy in the Middle East. "A free Iraq can be a source of hope for all the Middle East," he said one month before the invasion. "Instead of threatening its neighbors and harboring terrorists, Iraq can be an example of progress and prosperity in a region that needs both."

But as instability in Iraq grew after the toppling of Hussein, and resentment toward the United States intensified in the Muslim world, hundreds of foreign terrorists flooded into Iraq across its unguarded borders. They found tons of unprotected weapons caches that, military officials say, they are now using against U.S. troops. Foreign terrorists are believed to make up a large portion of today's suicide bombers, and U.S. intelligence officials say these foreigners are forming tactical, ever-changing alliances with former Baathist fighters and other insurgents.

"The al-Qa'ida membership that was distinguished by having trained in Afghanistan will gradually dissipate, to be replaced in part by the dispersion of the experienced survivors of the conflict in Iraq," the report says.

According to the NIC report, Iraq has joined the list of conflicts -- including the Israeli-Palestinian stalemate, and independence movements in Chechnya, Kashmir, Mindanao in the Philippines, and southern Thailand -- that have deepened solidarity among Muslims and helped spread radical Islamic ideology.

At the same time, the report says that by 2020, al Qaeda "will be superseded" by other Islamic extremist groups that will merge with local separatist movements. Most terrorism experts say this is already well underway. The NIC says this kind of ever-morphing decentralized movement is much more difficult to uncover and defeat.

Terrorists are able to easily communicate, train and recruit through the Internet, and their threat will become "an eclectic array of groups, cells and individuals that do not need a stationary headquarters," the council's report says. "Training materials, targeting guidance, weapons know-how, and fund-raising will become virtual (i.e. online)."

The report, titled "Mapping the Global Future," highlights the effects of globalization and other economic and social trends. But NIC officials said their greatest concern remains the possibility that terrorists may acquire biological weapons and, although less likely, a nuclear device.

The council is tasked with midterm and strategic analysis, and advises the CIA director. "The NIC's goal," one NIC publication states, "is to provide policymakers with the best, unvarnished, and unbiased information -- regardless of whether analytic judgments conform to U.S. policy."

Other than reports and studies, the council produces classified National Intelligence Estimates, which represent the consensus among U.S. intelligence agencies on specific issues.

Yesterday, Hutchings, former assistant dean of the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, said the NIC report tried to avoid analyzing the effect of U.S. policy on global trends to avoid being drawn into partisan politics.

Among the report's major findings is that the likelihood of "great power conflict escalating into total war . . . is lower than at any time in the past century." However, "at no time since the formation of the Western alliance system in 1949 have the shape and nature of international alignments been in such a state of flux as they have in the past decade."

The report also says the emergence of China and India as new global economic powerhouses "will be the most challenging of all" Washington's regional relationships. It also says that in the competition with Asia over technological advances, the United States "may lose its edge" in some sector

[JustRalph]

funny how that works. All the bad guys have run to Iraq to oppose us. No more attacks here? hmmm...........could there be some relation?

[sq764]

Zilzal, would you rather they be in your front yard killing your family or isolated thousands of miles away..

[PaceAdvantage]

There will never be a "right" answer to give to people who only find joy in the negatives, and never take pleasure in the positives.

[Tom]

Ralph......there you go again using logic on a lib. :D

[Equineer]

There will never be a "right" answer to give to people who only find joy in the negatives, and never take pleasure in the positives.Here is a different news item based on the National Intelligence Council report: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/bal-te.cia14jan14,0,3160971.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines

Like Dana Priest's WP article posted above by 46ZilZal, it is a mixture of negatives and positives.

The information comes from our own National Intelligence Council (http://www.cia.gov/nic/NIC_home.html), where the original report is available as a PDF document.

Where in either news article (or in the actual NIC report) do the authors "find joy in the negatives, and never take pleasure in the positives?"

In each case, it seemed to me that what I read was objective exposition, and the official charter for the 1,000 researchers and analysts who participated in the NIC study was "to provide policymakers with the best, unvarnished, and unbiased information -- regardless of whether analytic judgments conform to U.S. policy."

Do you think this is an inappropriate charter for our National Intelligence Council?

[46zilzal]

Dutch To Keep March Date for Iraq Withdrawal: Minister
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, THE HAGUE

Foreign Minister Ben Bot said Jan. 14 the Netherlands would make no change in plans to withdraw its troops stationed in Iraq in mid-March, despite domestic political pressure to maintain Dutch forces in the troubled country.

Bot has repeatedly said the government would pull out its 1,350 soldiers in Iraq in March “barring some unforeseen event”.

“I foresee no unexpected development,” he said Jan. 14, after the year’s first cabinet meeting in comments quoted by the Dutch news agency ANP.

But he conceded that two parties in the center-right majority coalition were pressuring the government to keep troops in Iraq. And he said “we will not close our eyes to the development of the international situation and parliament’s position.”

The United States in November urged the Netherlands to reverse its decision to withdraw.

Last June, Bot won from parliament an extension to keep Dutch troops in Iraq for another eight months.

The Dutch troops have been stationed in southern Iraq, in the sector under British command, and have been involved in training Iraq security troops.

A number of the countries in the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, including Italy, Hungary, Latvia, Poland and Ukraine, have indicated plans to withdraw or reduce their troops in the coming months.

[sq764]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3982539

Hoon Set to Send More Troops to Iraq

By Jon Smith, PA Political Editor

Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon is set to announce today that more British troops will be sent to Iraq.

He is expected to unveil the move to MPs during defence questions this afternoon in the Commons.

Reports have suggested soldiers from the 1st Battalion, Royal Highland Fusiliers will move to British-controlled Basra from their Cyprus base ahead of Iraqi elections scheduled for January 30.

Security is being stepped up across the country following a week of insurgent attacks, which saw three British civilians and the Baghdad governor killed.

Although the troops are likely to be based in southern Iraq, there could be requests to deploy the force in Baghdad or Sunni strongholds in the north.

Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Paul Keetch said: “If British commanders feel they need more troops in the British sector during the election period, then they should have them.

“But any future deployment of British forces outside their sector should be referred to the House of Commons.”

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said a decision on the deployment of additional troops would first be announced to Parliament.

He said: “We have reserves, they are in Cyprus and if they are needed, especially during the election period, they will be deployed.”

Downing Street indicated today that announcement would come this afternoon, but refused to speculate further in advance of Mr Hoon’s Commons comments.

The MOD confirmed that around 9,000 soldiers, airmen and sailors are currently serving in Iraq.

Earlier this week, hundreds of relief troops left Britain for a six-month deployment close to Basra.

Around 650 soldiers from the 2nd Battalion of the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment flew from their barracks near Market Drayton, Shropshire.

[Tom]

Some people idolize qutters. Leaving the free Iraq's in harm's way is fine if it supports your loser attitude.

[46zilzal]

There will never be a "right" answer to give to people who only find joy in the negatives, and never take pleasure in the positives.


EXCEPT about ridiculous UNNECESSARY wars

[Secretariat]

Well, in my working years, my taxes have gone down, our stock portfolio has gone up and our wages have gone up.. Should I be complaining?

Bravo for you. However, according to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics real wages adjusted for inflation and costs have not gone up for the US population, and more real people are unemployed than ever. The rate has remained around 5.4% but the population growth leaves many more people out of work than ever.


So let's see, lower overall wages, more unemployed people, more outsourcing of jobs and larger deficits. This is good for America? I'm gald you're doing well. Congratulations. However, political leaders are to represent all the "people", not just the "person".

[PaceAdvantage]

The rate has remained around 5.4% but the population growth leaves many more people out of work than ever.

Huh? You're not really trying to fly that one under the radar, are you? Population growth just didn't become a factor in 2000, did it?

Man, you're funny at times.

[sq764]

Bravo for you. However, according to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics real wages adjusted for inflation and costs have not gone up for the US population, and more real people are unemployed than ever. The rate has remained around 5.4% but the population growth leaves many more people out of work than ever.


So let's see, lower overall wages, more unemployed people, more outsourcing of jobs and larger deficits. This is good for America? I'm gald you're doing well. Congratulations. However, political leaders are to represent all the "people", not just the "person".
So you are blaming Bush for the population growth now?? Holy shit..

Unless George Jr is impregnating all of these women, I think you're even more off base than usual.

[Tom]

Huh? You're not really trying to fly that one under the radar, are you? Population growth just didn't become a factor in 2000, did it?

Man, you're funny at times.

Libs just do not understand percentages. They are math challenged because of the indoctrination of lib-based schools - math was short changed.
What he fails to grasp is that if the percentage remains constant, then the number out of work will increase (on the 5% side) but the number having jobs will increase incrementally, on the 95% side, so MORE eople are working now than ever before. This is a GOOD thing.

[Tom]

So you are blaming Bush for the population growth now?? Holy shit..

Unless George Jr is impregnating all of these women, I think you're even more off base than usual.


That would be Billy. No doubt. :D

[46zilzal]

Well, in my working years, my taxes have gone down, our stock portfolio has gone up and our wages have gone up.. Should I be complaining?
Portfolio???? Wow you trust those three piece suit guys?? Sweaty palms

[CryingForTheHorses]

Being a canadian and seeing this war I have some views,When this war started, It was a war to get rid of Saddam and look for WMD,The war has changed as they did get him, Now the war is against the "insurgents". The great war machine never figured this into the plans,ALL you guys are right in what you are saying,The forces that are pulling out made their commitment to the ousting of Saddam,Who the hell figured on this new war?..I say get everybody out of there and let them sort it out, I hate to see the news about USA guys getting killed, I hate to see all the other people getting killed, I say the USA should get out and cut all ties to this crazy place, Just think of this, IF them people REALLY wanted peace, I think they would help a hell of a lot more then they are!

[Secretariat]

So you are blaming Bush for the population growth now?? Holy shit..

Unless George Jr is impregnating all of these women, I think you're even more off base than usual.

Can you show explain to me where I blamed Bush on the population growth? I blamed him for the fact that MORE PEOPLE are unemployed. You may not like it but that is a reality.

Good post McShell.

[Tom]

Can you show explain to me where I blamed Bush on the population growth? I blamed him for the fact that MORE PEOPLE are unemployed. You may not like it but that is a reality.

Good post McShell.

More people are employed. Your math proves it. See my post on another thread.

Simple math
Assume 100 people is the working population.
Assume 5% unemployement
95 have jobs 5 do not.
Population inreases to 110
Unemployment stays the same at 5%

# working = 104.5
# unemployed = 5.5

So now, there is 0.5 more people unemployed, but 9.5 more people employeed.

[Tom]

The number of people fighting peace in Iraq is limited to a few. MAybe 2-3,000 I have heard as estimetes.
The vast majority are trying to improve their country and are not a danger.
Yeah, theses insurgents are terroists - and we are fighting them and killing them there. What is wrong with that?
If you abandon Iraq now, Iran will obviously overrun the country and take control of the oil while trampling over the sects that are not of their own.
Quit and let it sort itself out. Good plan.

[Secretariat]

More people are employed. Your math proves it. See my post on another thread.

Simple math
Assume 100 people is the working population.
Assume 5% unemployement
95 have jobs 5 do not.
Population inreases to 110
Unemployment stays the same at 5%

# working = 104.5
# unemployed = 5.5

So now, there is 0.5 more people unemployed, but 9.5 more people employeed.

Not quite Tom. To collect unemployment so one must first qualify. To qualify one must work a period of time.

If in fact, using your example, the population increases to 110 , it does not necessarily mean that 9.5 people more are working, just that they do not QUALIFY for unemployment.

However, accepting that some get work, the median wage has dropped as well while the fundamental costs of living have increased. this doesn't even factor in the real loss of dollars with the deterioration of benefits.

Keep those Bush rose colored galsses on Tom.

[Tom]

And unemployment doesn't take into accout that many people are now self-employed. JustRalph for one.
If the rate is staying the same, more people are not working and more people are working. Can't adjsut only one side of an equation.

[CryingForTheHorses]

The number of people fighting peace in Iraq is limited to a few. MAybe 2-3,000 I have heard as estimetes.
The vast majority are trying to improve their country and are not a danger.
Yeah, theses insurgents are terroists - and we are fighting them and killing them there. What is wrong with that?
If you abandon Iraq now, Iran will obviously overrun the country and take control of the oil while trampling over the sects that are not of their own.
Quit and let it sort itself out. Good plan.

Do we really need their oil?? Guess you would rather your guys getting killed because of a ego problem.These guys will kill whether there is a war or not.Who cares if Iran over runs them.Do we really need Iran? I say cut all ties untill this country can come to the table like men not cowards.Bring the men home alive!

[JustRalph]

Do we really need their oil??

What the hell are you talking about? Do you see us loading up oil tankers and shipping it here? No way..........don't tell me you are one of those "It's all about oil" wingnuts?

[Equineer]

And unemployment doesn't take into accout that many people are now self-employed. JustRalph for one.
If the rate is staying the same, more people are not working and more people are working. Can't adjsut only one side of an equation.Nonsense... the Bureau of Labor Statistics develops its figures from surveys and statistical techniques that are specifically designed to cover all the bases for employment/unemployment, including teenagers, farm workers, self-employed, and even part-timers.

[Tom]

I bow to you when it come to nonsense - you are the expert in that field.

I then repeat myself - if the population goes up, and more people are out of work, many more people are in work if the percentage remains the same.

[Secretariat]

I bow to you when it come to nonsense - you are the expert in that field.

I then repeat myself - if the population goes up, and more people are out of work, many more people are in work if the percentage remains the same.

Tom,


I refer you to my previous post.

[Tom]

Why? It is still wrong. :D :D :D

Remeber when we all congratualted W for winning with the hisghest total votes in history? And you libs said that was becasue the population was larger now?

Remedial math-night school. You gotta supplement that outcome-based liberish education.