Do u purposely watch races..... [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

sq764

01-09-2005, 12:07 AM

I think you have to if you want to hone your skills.. Seeing a race where you have no vested interest gives you a totally different perspective.

I have compared my harness horses to watch list with races I watch to races I bet and the watched races turn out a bit higher ROI..

jeebus1083

01-09-2005, 12:15 AM

It's different when there's dough on the line and when there's not... when MNR opens next Saturday, I won't be betting... just watching/note-taking.

Tee

01-09-2005, 12:24 AM

It's different when there's dough on the line and when there's not....

How so?

Steve 'StatMan'

01-09-2005, 12:27 AM

I can watch races without betting. I have gone all day without betting (I'd handicapped the card, but found no value all day). Had a few where I only made 1 wager as well.

Years ago, I had problems with stress, and I had to temporarily give up all the things that stressed me, or created too much excitement (even took 3 weeks off of work). But I still wanted to see my friends. So I went to the track on Saturdays, for several hours, without handicaping, without a form, without betting or playing my friends horses. I just watched and socialized for about 2 months. I did buy a $2 souvenier ticket on Belmont Day in case the Triple Crown would have been won.

Tee

01-09-2005, 01:17 AM

I think you have to if you want to hone your skills.. Seeing a race where you have no vested interest gives you a totally different perspective.

I feel one must 1st watch races to acquire skills & then continue watching to further those skills.

Should a race where u have no vested interest give a different perspective than one in which a wager has been placed?

RXB

01-09-2005, 01:18 AM

The last six days that I've watched the races, I haven't made a bet. In retrospect, there were probably two or three times that I could've (should've) bet, but I'd rather be a little too conservative than too aggressive.

I don't do well on sloppy/muddy tracks, so Aqueduct's been a washout this week. And I've never been able to hold my own in Gulfstream's dirt races until mid-late February, so that leaves the GP turf course, and I haven't found any strong plays so far.

BillW

01-09-2005, 01:23 AM

I feel one must 1st watch races to acquire skills & then continue watching to further those skills.

Should a race where u have no vested interest give a different perspective than one in which a wager has been placed?

Any difference, I would think would spell problems as emotion is getting into your decision making.

Bill

Tee

01-09-2005, 02:54 AM

Any difference, I would think would spell problems as emotion is getting into your decision making.

Bill

A little emotion is not a bad thing imo if it is discarded quickly & the player retains focus.

If we were to put emotion on the backburner for now, what other problems could arise with a large separation btwn practice & practical?

Overlay

01-09-2005, 02:55 AM

For someone with my orientation (looking for betting value), being able to pass races where a sufficient edge is not present is a key element. I find that quantifying my handicapping to the greatest extent possible, and relying on an appropriate mix of proven performance statistics which clearly tell me whether value is or is not present in a given race, takes emotion out of the equation for me, and makes it much easier for me to avoid impulse bets and not to deviate from my overall wagering strategy.

freeneasy

01-09-2005, 05:39 AM

thats like asking me to take a walking tour thru a See's candy factory and watching all those robustuous caramels, chocolets, creams and butterscotches being churned around in those great big vats, inhalelating all those hundreds of aromas while they swairl thier way thru my brain, i dont think id have a chance. once i turn into this guy :kiss: or this guy :rolleyes: i think i'd be a gonner and end up buying the store out

keilan

01-09-2005, 10:59 AM

Can u[/B] watch races w/o betting on them?

Yeah I do it all the time but I don’t watch very many races at all that I haven’t handicapped. Insofar as watching replays I very rarely ever do that but will make notes occasionally on a horse that has impressed me and through him into my stable mail.

Zaf

01-09-2005, 11:13 AM

When I bet a full card I typically bet 4 - 5 races, I watch the others with interest to try and learn something. If I didn't handicap the race and its a 3500 CLM n2l , I won't watch. On the other hand I will watch a classy race that I did not handicap.

ZAFONIC

Suff

01-09-2005, 11:56 AM

You have too when you have TVG on the tube all day. Its channel 260 on my Comcast cable. I flick back and forth and watch 20 races a day that I don't bet, don't feel compelled to bet and even when my account is FAT.. I still pass. I'm a Fan of horse racing and I can watch race after race simply because horse racing interests me. Similiar to Sports. I love College Football , and watch tons of games , but I probably bet 10 games all year.

I know people who can't sit at the track and watch races go off without taking a piece... I know guys who can't turn TVG on the tube without picking up the phone or the Computer and throwing something in.

For me.. I enjoy the Art of Handicapping... and If I can't sit with a card and give it a Good look over... Betting on Horses loses its punch for me. I need the handicapping part to get me invested enough to risk money. I know guys that bet without a Form or program.. I tell them... Go Play Bingo or Keno... Cuz thats all your doing is playing numbers.

Larry Hamilton

01-09-2005, 12:13 PM

I used to watch many, many races, taking what I thought were "trip notes" all the while. I had heard that Andy Beyer was augmenting his speed handicapping with trip handicapping. (this was a long time ago). After I had used up many paper-producing trees with trip notes, I noticed a pattern. What was occuring was NOT unique, for instance, if Secretariat was running in the Belmont today, I might have noted, "Drew off well, watch next outing...." no shit! I found that my notes, in general, were better written by the DRF in their charts section!!

Lucky Maria

01-09-2005, 12:32 PM

I will watch races that I have no opinion on because I've usually looked over the race and am interested in seeing what various horses do, looking for unusual events etc. I rarely bet the Kentucky Derby but always watch it.

What is hard for me is watching the board before a race that I have an opinion on. I watch the post parade, the odds, check my handicapping and find it very hard to talk myself out of betting. When the odds are too low on my top selections, I start looking at the longshots wondering if I've over looked something. I'm definitely guilty of too many action bets.

Maria

Valuist

01-09-2005, 01:45 PM

What about when the same group of horses runs again in 3 weeks? Seeing the race live or on TV is a whole different perspective than how a horse's last race looks in the DRF. I would say you pretty much have to watch these races, if you want to have a chance to show a profit.

sq764

01-09-2005, 01:54 PM

Wow Valuist, I agree with you 100%..

I don't think you CAN'T profit without doing it, but it certainly helps..

Tee

01-09-2005, 03:24 PM

Wow Valuist, I agree with you 100%..

I don't think you CAN'T profit without doing it, but it certainly helps..

Time for an english refresher course sq? :)

Seriously though - define perspective as it pertains to horse racing. Should shed some more light on the discussion.

R U talking about how one should mentally view a race or the relative importance of practice vs practical?

Valuist

01-09-2005, 04:42 PM

Tee-

Sometimes what we see visually in a race doesn't always jibe with how the chart looks. The charts usually do a pretty good job but by watching races, there's a lot of stuff one can pick up on, like big mid-race moves. Also, some trackman chartcallers are good about differentiating between "driving", "ridden out" and "handily" but there's others who called every winner driving. I like to factor into pace and bias and determine who really was the best horse in a race. Sometimes its the winner, but probably at least 50% of the time it isn't.

Tee

01-09-2005, 05:04 PM

Zman179

01-09-2005, 05:06 PM

Quite a few of my friends have said to me that they wished that they had my patience. Then again, they play multiple tracks at once without blinking an eye.

My thing is that I like to only play one track at a time. I will not try to force a bet as I've found that forced bets almost always have a negative consequence.

toetoe

01-09-2005, 05:12 PM

Let me put in a plug for the converse: playing without watching live. The love of the sport and the attempt to make money are two distinct things and need not coincide all the time. Sure, watch replays @ some point, but with the money already in, why risk becoming one of the "old men screaming @ monitors?" As somebody pointed out, watching non-bet races dispassionately is huge,and this is similar. I just think it makes me more business-like when I can do it.

Tee

01-09-2005, 05:34 PM

If the races are not viewed, how can one make any type of definitive trip notes for a possible next out bet or bet against?

toetoe

01-09-2005, 06:02 PM

Of course, I meant to make that clear. Just right after the race, replay show on telly, replay website, one of which you'll want to do anyway. Not much help to view live, see your horse and/or frontrunners, miss a ton of the action and go on to the next race. That's all.

Fastracehorse

01-09-2005, 06:41 PM

I think most races are competitive or ambiguous Tee.

Hence,

I bet that most enthusiastic horse players on PA would show at least a modest profit it they spot played - but of course they don't.

Imagine if you could show a 10 % yearly profit on all moneys wagered - the stock market would say great job!

But the reason why most players show a loss is because they are action players.

Many gamblers have a chip on their shoulder too - and they try and prove something in a race where it is difficult to do so.

It is hard for a highly-competitive punter to wait for the easy scores - where is the challenge?? I guess one has to decide if they like challenges or money better.

fffastt

toetoe

01-09-2005, 07:25 PM

Fasty,
Well @ pithily put. It starts as a creative take on a horse, which will be rewarded with a high mutuel. It degenerates into a shot to prove something, as you say. Sometimes an angle, a very good angle, is overloo&ed, but the horse is overbet anyway ( trainer, jock, patriotic name on July 4, etc.). The punter can't go to an overlay in the same race on short notice, and he surely can't ( GASP! ) ... PASS THE DAMN RACE! If we always remembered that skipping a bad bet is equivalent to cashing on an even-money lock, handle would drop, but we'd be better off, financially & OTHERWISE.

sq764

01-09-2005, 09:08 PM

Time for an english refresher course sq? :)

Seriously though - define perspective as it pertains to horse racing. Should shed some more light on the discussion.

R U talking about how one should mentally view a race or the relative importance of practice vs practical?

(The sentence is phonetically correct, but that's not important)

In regards to watching races, when you have a wager on a horse, do you watch every horse or just your's?

What if your's is on the lead and wires the field? How many other trips do you actually see?

Tee

01-09-2005, 09:38 PM

In regards to watching races, when you have a wager on a horse, do you watch every horse or just your's?

What if your's is on the lead and wires the field? How many other trips do you actually see?

I watch the race, at least what the camera shows me. The outcome is not going to change if I eyeball my horse(s) all the way so I don't.

sq764

01-09-2005, 09:55 PM

Why do you ask a question then argue with people who offer insights into your question?? Unbelievable..

Tee

01-09-2005, 10:02 PM

I'm not looking for insights - if u haven't figured that out by now.

Point out the argumentative tone please.

sq764

01-09-2005, 10:33 PM

Why did you start this thread then??

Tee

01-09-2005, 11:08 PM

Because I can start a thread that's why!! :D

Seriously - the guys at the otb can't understand why I sit for hours with pen & pad of paper in hand just watching the races. Only money in my pocket is to keep me from going hungry & thirsty.

Was interested to see what responses would be given on this board.

While I'm not looking for insights, that doesn't mean I won't get one or two if & when they should come along.

sq764

01-10-2005, 12:15 AM

My only comment would be that you could always sit at home and watch races with pen and paper, without having to drive..

Tee

01-10-2005, 12:20 AM

That's what I do mostly, but there is the odd occasion when a trip to the otb is worthwhile.

There are times when my cable internet is on the blink & a wager can't be made - thus a trip to the otb.

Up until a few weeks ago I didn't have TVG either & watching on the computer does get a bit old after a while.

It's not a very long drive :)