Sunday R7 at Saratoga

[Someday Silent]

Did anyone see what happened on the backstretch?

Maiden two year old fillies on turf...the camera angles kept switching back and forth, so it was hard to see what transpired. Three runners dropped out suddenly, and their jockeys were looking around. One rider even stood up and waved his arm around.

Inquiry sign is up.

[affirmedny]

Did anyone see what happened on the backstretch?

Maiden two year old fillies on turf...the camera angles kept switching back and forth, so it was hard to see what transpired. Three runners dropped out suddenly, and their jockeys were looking around. One rider even stood up and waved his arm around.

Inquiry sign is up.

Heard on FOX:

There was a problem getting the tractor off the course and outriders were telling the jocks to pull up. This may be a no contest.

[Andy Asaro]

The last 3 horses were affected. They should declare them non starters and then pay out.

[Zydeco]

Gate malfunction. No Contest.

[soupman2]

Full disclosure- I had the winner; ex and tri. THIS DECISION ABSOLUTELY SUCKED! Sigh.....

[Andy Asaro]

Full disclosure- I had the winner; ex and tri. THIS DECISION ABSOLUTELY SUCKED! Sigh.....

Me too. Gutted out the win and then this crap. I don't know the rules but if they had the option to declare the last 3 horses non starters and then paid out I think that would be more fair than an all race.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Me too. Gutted out the win and then this crap. I don't know the rules but if they had the option to declare the last 3 horses non starters and then paid out I think that would be more fair than an all race.

Horses were getting pulled up nearly 3F from the finish in a turf race. Declaring the last 3 or 4 non-starters and then handing bettors the favorite is a loser for them.

I had the 'winner' in horizontals. It is a no-brainer no contest.

[jameegray1]

Tractor failed. Took them a minute to get the gate off the track and only cleared as the horses were in the far turn. Outrider down the back stretch called them to pull up.

[Someday Silent]

Full disclosure- I had the winner; ex and tri. THIS DECISION ABSOLUTELY SUCKED! Sigh.....

Ouch. And it's a shame because the winner ran a gutsy race by fighting back on the inside.

[Andy Asaro]

Horses were getting pulled up nearly 3F from the finish in a turf race. Declaring the last 3 or 4 non-starters and then handing bettors the favorite is a loser for them.

I had the 'winner' in horizontals. It is a no-brainer no contest.

#1 won the race at 5-1.

[burnsy]

Mother bleeping NYRA!

[Someday Silent]

Officially a no contest, and people are booing.

Now seeing replay of the gate crew finally getting clear. That was scary.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

#1 won the race at 5-1.

Yes, and I was alive to the :1::1a: entry in a P5.

It was the right call.

[PhantomOnTour]

#1 won the race at 5-1.

If they refund the money on the runners who pulled up would they also re-calculate the odds on the remaining runners?

[Andy Asaro]

If they refund the money on the runners who pulled up would they also re-calculate the odds on the remaining runners?

Yes.

[classhandicapper]

How do they handle the owners/purses?

[PhantomOnTour]

Yes.

So your 5-1 would have turned into 2-1 or less

[Andy Asaro]

So your 5-1 would have turned into 2-1 or less

Depends on the odds of the horses they declared non starters. But yes, odds would have been lower. Still think that's the more fair way to do it. But, they probably don't have that option.

[PhantomOnTour]

Depends on the odds of the horses they declared non starters. But yes, odds would have been lower. Still think that's the more fair way to do it. But, they probably don't have that option.

To refund some of the runners and then re-calculate odds for win-place-show, exactas, Doubles, all three P3's, the P4-P5-P6, and the Turf Triple would be a complete hairball situation and take a long time I would imagine.
They made the right decision - period.

[Tom]

I thought they declared ir no contest when they saw Tyler won. After all, his career is over, I read that on the internet. :rolleyes: :lol:

Seriously, they finished the race, will it show up in past performances, but not count as a start for anyone? That is information futre bettors will want to have.
Will the horses het Beyers, TF, etc?

[Andy Asaro]

To refund some of the runners and then re-calculate odds for win-place-show, exactas, Doubles, all three P3's, the P4-P5-P6, and the Turf Triple would be a complete hairball situation and take a long time I would imagine.
They made the right decision - period.

Same as when one of the starters holds the reigns and the horse doesn't get a fair start. It can be done. Probably not within the rules

[Cutter14]

I didn't bet the race and as much as I feel sorry for the people that had the winner the decision to make the race no contest was the right one---Primary concern is for the safety of both the riders and horses-IMO they made the correct call for a change

[soupman2]

So the next time a runner in the front breaks down and the horses behind have to pull up or even run into him, as the leaders continue to race, I can expect a no contest declaration?


Bob <--- currently in poor sport mode


ps- have been in the depths of a huge bad streak...finally got a win


Bob <---- also just took out a huge bottle of whine.....

[Cuffdaddy]

Thought they would use the race as a "all" in start of the PIK 4. Gave full refund but not until after last race was official. Nice, thought Iwas getting something back as I went 3 deep in the first no contest leg

[Cuffdaddy]

Forgot to attach ticket, late pick 3 pays $197 for 50 cents. I should of pulled tractor service records.

[westernmassbob]

Normally I wouldn’t have a problem with the decision at all. I do have a huge problem with the zero communication the bettors received during the inquiry. No replay, no video of inquiry, no explanation no nothing. To top it all off when the decision announcement was made the red screen of death appeared for what felt like a lifetime. Then after another ice age they finally put a video shot from back stretch . The whole ordeal was odd and suspicious to say the least. No live video of the track attendance of horses and jockeys. Bizarre. At the very least NYRA should be investigated what an embarrassment. Communicate with the bettors WTF.

[ScottJ]

Normally I wouldn’t have a problem with the decision at all. I do have a huge problem with the zero communication the bettors received during the inquiry. No replay, no video of inquiry, no explanation no nothing. To top it all off when the decision announcement was made the red screen of death appeared for what felt like a lifetime. Then after another ice age they finally put a video shot from back stretch . The whole ordeal was odd and suspicious to say the least. No live video of the track attendance of horses and jockeys. Bizarre. At the very least NYRA should be investigated what an embarrassment. Communicate with the bettors WTF.The NYRA Saratoga Live Broadcast gave an update on the wagering semantics as quickly as possible after the eighth race.

If you read the horizontal wager Pick-x (where 2 <= x <= 6) rules, NYRA followed those established rules to the letter.

I believe that one of our wise posters offered the following at 9:48am today : "Go do some research".

[westernmassbob]

The NYRA Saratoga Live Broadcast gave an update on the wagering semantics as quickly as possible after the eighth race.

If you read the horizontal wager Pick-x (where 2 <= x <= 6) rules, NYRA followed those established rules to the letter.

I believe that one of our wise posters offered the following at 9:48am today : "Go do some research".

My point had zero to do with everything you just mentioned. There was no communication during the inquiry delay about what was going on and why.

[Boomer]

Easy for us web bettors. There was no announcement at the track they were considering it a no contest. How many paper tickets were tossed?

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/1551351888154546176

[classhandicapper]

Seriously, they finished the race, will it show up in past performances, but not count as a start for anyone? That is information future bettors will want to have. Will the horses the Beyers, TF, etc?

The chart is available. So I assume it will included, but if not a figure can be calculated and you can refer back to the chart for the horses PPs.

[Cuffdaddy]

I get the ruling and suppose if I read the rules I would have excepted the full refund but why that refund is not made available until after the final leg is perplexing.

[ScottJ]

Easy for us web bettors. There was no announcement at the track they were considering it a no contest. How many paper tickets were tossed?Rule #1 from Jack E. Lee at Roosevelt Raceway: "Hold all tickets until the results of the race are declared official".

Seriously, casual bettors who tossed their tickets likely did not even realize that they tossed a refund. Those who watched the race knew that something was wrong when four horses were a furlong behind (and eased) at the stretch.

There was communication at the track as soon as the inquiry was closed.

[ScottJ]

I get the ruling and suppose if I read the rules I would have excepted the full refund but why that refund is not made available until after the final leg is perplexing.That is a tote system processing issue where payouts are not determined until the final leg of a multirace sequence is completed.

For those questioning all of these horizontal wagering rules, you are not alone. They vary from state-to-state and wager-to-wager. When you wonder why racetracks in the UK do NOT offer horizontal bets, you have your reason right here.

[Someday Silent]

My point had zero to do with everything you just mentioned. There was no communication during the inquiry delay about what was going on and why.

That's my takeaway too. No one at the track had a clue what was going on. I saw the livestream at home, which gave me a big advantage of rewinding and pausing 27 times.

The NYRA broadcasters did a good job of running down all the details like it was The Da Vinci Code, but nothing would've made sense if you were there in person.

[BarchCapper]

That is a tote system processing issue where payouts are not determined until the final leg of a multirace sequence is completed.

For those questioning all of these horizontal wagering rules, you are not alone. They vary from state-to-state and wager-to-wager. When you wonder why racetracks in the UK do NOT offer horizontal bets, you have your reason right here.

No horizontals? Placepot, jackpot, Scoop 6 (similar to our cross-country pick 5) are all available.

And they deal with it in the rules much the same way - making it an "all":

"Walkovers/Void/Abandoned Races/Meetings
If any leg of the Tote Placepot is a walkover, or is void, or is abandoned, or there is no official result declared for any reason, and is not re-ran on the same day, then the pool will be settled on the remaining legs, i.e. every selection in that leg is deemed to have been successful, provided at least one leg of the bet takes place."

[Brass Hat]

True, the crowd was told there was an inquiry, but no explanation during the long delay. I learned from my wife who found the reason on Twitter, from Dave Grening, I believe.

Had to laugh though, at any track you see much bizarre behavior, even Saratoga. I went up on the second level to play my picks; there was some gentleman hollering obscenities at the screen and how jockeys were the stupidest human beings on earth. I watched the race, went back to my chair on the first floor. As soon as the race was declared no-contest the same gentleman comes running down the escalator picking up loose tickets at the tote window, the fastest stooper I've seen in my life.

[Someday Silent]

I went up on the second level to play my picks; there was some gentleman hollering obscenities at the screen and how jockeys were the stupidest human beings on earth. I watched the race, went back to my chair on the first floor. As soon as the race was declared no-contest the same gentleman comes running down the escalator picking up loose tickets at the tote window, the fastest stooper I've seen in my life.

Being wrong hasn't stopped people from trying to benefit later. :D

[FRMNBRI]

I agree that totally sucked and even though it benefitted me bc I didnt have the :1: I feel for everyone because it kills the pools. Saratoga has a gate crew that is very good IMO and atleast they got the gate off the track. If some one can find it, there was a video from some bush track with 12 yr old horses running:confused: where they could not get he gate off and jockeys were flying everywhere on the tarck

[biggestal99]

That is a tote system processing issue where payouts are not determined until the final leg of a multirace sequence is completed.

For those questioning all of these horizontal wagering rules, you are not alone. They vary from state-to-state and wager-to-wager. When you wonder why racetracks in the UK do NOT offer horizontal bets, you have your reason right here.

the UK has horizontal bets.

Allan

[alhattab]

How do they handle the owners/purses?

Article in DRF said every runner got 3%

[alhattab]

[QUOTE=soupman2;2819427]So the next time a runner in the front breaks down and the horses behind have to pull up or even run into him, as the leaders continue to race, I can expect a no contest declaration?

I believe some jurisdictions have a rule that would declare the race no contest if, for example, fewer than half the field does not finish.

[burnsy]

My point had zero to do with everything you just mentioned. There was no communication during the inquiry delay about what was going on and why.

I sometimes disagree with you . But this time you are 100% correct. On track bettors never had a clue WTF was happening. Not one word other that a Stewards General Inquiry…….. not a freaking word for at least 10 to 15 minutes. If you were at the track you didn’t have a clue. The horses for the next race walked into the paddock for the next race.,,,, still nothing said! The call was the right call….. but who ever manages this type of thing . Should be fired. People walked out after they finally said what happened. Surreal and stupid. Would of been the end of the world to announce that there was a malfunction during the race . Not a peep!

[BarchCapper]

People walked out after they finally said what happened. Surreal and stupid. Would of been the end of the world to announce that there was a malfunction during the race . Not a peep!

Theorizing that the over/under on the number of people walking out because of this in addition to the normal number of people who leave after race 7 on a normal Sunday at the end of their Saratoga weekend was 2.5.

Might even be a negative number since more people would still be alive in their pick 5 or pick 6 after the "all" race.

[ubercapper]

Seriously, they finished the race, will it show up in past performances, but not count as a start for anyone? That is information futre bettors will want to have.
Will the horses het Beyers, TF, etc?

For purposes of pp lines, this race is considered "unofficial" but since at least one horse crossed the line every horse in the race "should" have a pp line going forward. The reason for "should" is it is up to whoever produces the PPs whether they want to include unofficial races or not in their products.

I do not know whether there will be figures calculated for the horses.

I do know that this race will not increment a start for the purposes of lifetime records or statistics, including jockey, trainer, sire and dam.

[wisconsin]

About 10 minutes in Imbriale dId, indeed, say LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE HOLD ALL MUTUEL TICKETS. I had the live feed on, and the camera was showing the paddock when he did.

[westernmassbob]

About 10 minutes in Imbriale dId, indeed, say LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE HOLD ALL MUTUEL TICKETS. I had the live feed on, and the camera was showing the paddock when he did.

He did make that announcement but that was all until the actual decision came much later. My questions remain unanswered. Why wasn’t the public made aware about what the inquiry was about and shown the replay feed during the decision process? They do it for every other inquiry . It seems very suspicious like there was something to hide.

[Zydeco]

He did make that announcement but that was all until the actual decision came much later. My questions remain unanswered. Why wasn’t the public made aware about what the inquiry was about and shown the replay feed during the decision process? They do it for every other inquiry . It seems very suspicious like there was something to hide.

They were trying to hide the starting gate. Didn't get it done. No Contest.

[burnsy]

They were trying to hide the starting gate. Didn't get it done. No Contest.

How does that work? There’s no hiding anything in this day and age. True, all of us at the track had no clue. But that’s temporary. There was no excuse for not announcing what the General Inquiry was about or what was going on in the moment. They left customers (bettors) hanging. For what? Took a bad misfortune and made it worse exponentially. What kind of customer service is that. You actually think or they thought this inaction saved face ? :popcorn::confused::pound:

[metro]

Tractor failed. Took them a minute to get the gate off the track and only cleared as the horses were in the far turn. Outrider down the back stretch called them to pull up.

Tractor failed? Was this Assinobia Downs or Saratoga?

[Someday Silent]

He did make that announcement but that was all until the actual decision came much later. My questions remain unanswered. Why wasn’t the public made aware about what the inquiry was about and shown the replay feed during the decision process? They do it for every other inquiry . It seems very suspicious like there was something to hide.

^^^ This.

[dilanesp]

In case y'all are interested, here's the chart (courtesy Charles Simon).

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F cc1c829e-e7ca-4d62-b25c-be62b62126cd_1536x1585.jpeg?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

[Brisk Urging]

https://t.co/U0Yq4GGgoJ
NEW: New York wagering rules were ignored on Thursday at Saratoga.

Nearly 30 minutes after the race was made official, how was it declared an "all-win" in Pick 5?

Why were arbitrary actions taken?

What should customer expectations be going forward?

[shout1966]

according to equibase towhead who finished first is still a maiden so this means this race is basically null and void . as is that chart you posted.




https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=10772913&registry=T&rbt=TB

[BarchCapper]

according to equibase towhead who finished first is still a maiden so this means this race is basically null and void . as is that chart you posted.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=10772913&registry=T&rbt=TB

When those horses run next time out - mightn't you want to know how they "unofficially" ran last time?

[ScottJ]

When those horses run next time out - mightn't you want to know how they "unofficially" ran last time?Tell you what - save the chart. You will have an advantage over the masses.

[cj]

Tell you what - save the chart. You will have an advantage over the masses.

Wasn't that his point and exactly what he is suggesting?

[BarchCapper]

Wasn't that his point and exactly what he is suggesting?

'Twas.

[Suff]

Did anyone see this golf cart rocketing through the infield during yesterday's 9th race?

They were flying, as fast as you'll ever see a golf cart go. They appeared out of nowhere and took a path parallel to the horse and on the turn directly at the horses.

Strange.

https://i.ibb.co/6rq8fP9/Screenshot-20220728-115407.png

[jimmyb]

Did anyone see this golf cart rocketing through the infield during yesterday's 9th race?

They were flying, as fast as you'll ever see a golf cart go. They appeared out of nowhere and took a path parallel to the horse and on the turn directly at the horses.

Strange.

https://i.ibb.co/6rq8fP9/Screenshot-20220728-115407.png







Was that JK doing one of his stories?

[Tom]

The gate was stuck again, this was heading to move it! :lol:

[v j stauffer]

In case y'all are interested, here's the chart (courtesy Charles Simon).

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F cc1c829e-e7ca-4d62-b25c-be62b62126cd_1536x1585.jpeg?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

A thousand years ago I was a chart caller for DRF and later the ill fated Sports-Eye.

Who is the guy that writes the footnotes for NYRA?

Never read better!

[Someday Silent]

Was that JK doing one of his stories?

I don't see a Hawaiian shirt. 😉

[ubercapper]

When those horses run next time out - mightn't you want to know how they "unofficially" ran last time?


Every horse in the race "should" have a pp line going forward. The reason for "should" is it is up to whoever produces the PPs whether they want to include unofficial races or not in their products.

[JohnGalt1]

I would guess that the pp line will be posted with dashes and in the comment line will read No Contest.