FanDuel To Create 24/7 Sports Betting Network Through Rebranded TVG -

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/1550189906994941953

[BarchCapper]

https://twitter.com/racetrackandy/status/1550189906994941953

From the article:

"The rebrand would see a slight shift away from horse racing on the flagship TVG channel. Instead, morning programming would focus on FanDuel talent and sports betting."

Wonderful! 😡 So no more of the nice full-screen high def picture of UK/Irish/world racing to accompany one's morning. I hope the choices for the individual feeds will still be available.

That's just ONE bad aspect of this change.

[Tom]

Bad news for racing.
Don't we have enough worthless sports channels already?
Chinese Basketball???

[Bustin Stones]

Don't you remember "Wide World of Sports"? The 'agony of defeat'. Saturday afternoon they'd televise some ski jumping competition out of a European town you never heard of.

[Cuffdaddy]

California finally has sports betting on the ballot in November with two Propositions (26,27).

Could be a driving force behind the decision, the more knowledgeable here would have a better idea.

[GaryG]

This can only help RTN. It is well worth the money.

[biggestal99]

more worthless football touting

Allan

[BarchCapper]

This can only help RTN. It is well worth the money.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

ESPN The Ocho

[usfgeology]

“ The overnight slot would be filled with “tertiary” sports with watch & wager rights, such as Korean football, pickleball and Chinese basketball.”

Farewell to my beloved late night Australian racing.

[BarchCapper]

“ The overnight slot would be filled with “tertiary” sports with watch & wager rights, such as Korean football, pickleball and Chinese basketball.”

Farewell to my beloved late night Australian racing.

RTN, RTN, RTN!!!!!! And no worries about breaking away for commercial mid-race!

[SandyW]

This looks like a sure way to shoot yourself in the foot and blow the 60 million race players customer base that TVG has built up since 1999.
I live in Las Vegas and can tell you from my experience working in the gaming industry for over 40 years this will be a catastrophic mistake.
FanDual will never convert horse players to sports bettors. Horse racing you have instant decisions where sports wagering decisions take hours.
Don't blow up your fan base on TVG you will surely regret it.

[lamboguy]

if you are a NYRA or Churchill player, the Fox feed is great. they have great camera angles on the horses in the paddock and on the race track along with knowledgeable analysts..

[westernmassbob]

Does anyone believe that the TVG channel could solely survive on a non horse player crowd ? The Fanduel content reminds me of those Sunday morning shows back in the 80’s and 90’s where these characters would tout their picks. Honestly I don’t see any synergy between horse racing and sports betting. Most bettors are focused on either one or the other.

[Tom]

From now on, we can actually bet on the weinner dogs,
I can't wait for the Amish Rake Fights.

[horsefan2019]

TVG2 is underutilized and often times mirrors the programming on TVG. If you have good people there they could probably maximize the programming for both channels. But seeing how TV stations handle rebrands I would expect them to botch it somehow.

[affirmedny]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fanduel-first-sports-gambling-company-launch-broadcast-network-150036355.html


FanDuel becomes first sports gambling company to launch own broadcast network

[affirmedny]

https://twitter.com/TVG/status/1562794137702633473

[DanBoals]

RTN, RTN, RTN!!!!!! And no worries about breaking away for commercial mid-race!


RTN is the best $15 I spend in a normal month.



"Let is Ride" is one of my favorite movies. My dad and I used to watch it every couple of years, now I watch it with my daughter. Jennifer Tilly and Terri Garr are both great as supporting actors to Richard Dreyfuss, and whoever wrote that book has definitely been to the race track a few times. Thanks for that quote in your sig line, that makes my day.


Dan

[The Arbiter]

On paper, I like that this will expose the game to more people out there.



But it's always gonna be in the back of my mind, when does the horse coverage start to get aced out. I feel like that's always how these deals turn out

[CheckMark]

TVG already sponsors a Breeders Cup race and FanDuel does one too so does that mean FanDuel will sponsor 2 races then since they are together?

[BarchCapper]

RTN is the best $15 I spend in a normal month.



"Let is Ride" is one of my favorite movies. My dad and I used to watch it every couple of years, now I watch it with my daughter. Jennifer Tilly and Terri Garr are both great as supporting actors to Richard Dreyfuss, and whoever wrote that book has definitely been to the race track a few times. Thanks for that quote in your sig line, that makes my day.


Dan

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Speed Figure]

I'm not really understanding this, what does RTN give you that an ADW can't?

[Tom]

How is it going to reach more people if it lives on TVG2?
TVG1 is the only one offered to many people?

And unless they get rid of half the talking heads that take up actal race air time, we will get races being shown.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

[The Arbiter]

How is it going to reach more people if it lives on TVG2?
TVG1 is the only one offered to many people?



TVG1 is still going to be mostly horse racing (for now). The mornings and overnights will be more sports betting fare

[BarchCapper]

I hope that sometime in the near future, the people at RacingTV in the UK and at Equidia in France and the people at RTN here can get together so that we can have a reliable outlet for UK/Irish/Euro racing. It looks like it won't be making it on to the rebranded TVG at all based on when the sports related content will be shown. Currently the only UK/Irish/Euro racing available on RTN are the UK races from the 20 or so tracks owned by the Arena Racing Company and shown on the South African based TellyTrack channel.

[Tom]

TVG1 is still going to be mostly horse racing (for now). The mornings and overnights will be more sports betting fare

But that kills a lot of night races.
And tracks.

[ScottJ]

TVG as a horse racing platform is a tax on the entire industry.

The money bet through their platform does not fully benefit the purses or offset costs at major racetracks that are the backbone of the sport. Second tier racetracks however depend on the reach of TVG in order to supplement their pools and make them viable. When you hear the expression "keep the money in the game", the phrase specifically strikes out at both TVG and DRF.

As for TVG's new sports-oriented focus and/or programming, this represents the only vector in which they can increase their business, margins, and bottom-line.

Expect that TVG will decrease their weekend focus on horse racing, relegating that programming to perhaps TVG2 which has absolutely zero broadcast (cable network) presence. Second tier racetracks will be featured on a Monday to Wednesday basis and will be squeezed for air time as the sports-focus continues.

There will be on-air talent impacts as Betfair will need to expand into sports-knowledgable and recognized talent. Aside from Dave Weaver who has a foot still in both camps, none of the other horse racing broadcast talent figure to make the transition. When I see the promotional video, I see a number of folks who are celebrating the loss of their own broadcast livelihoods.

[shout1966]

TVG as a horse racing platform is a tax on the entire industry.

The money bet through their platform does not fully benefit the purses or offset costs at major racetracks that are the backbone of the sport. Second tier racetracks however depend on the reach of TVG in order to supplement their pools and make them viable. When you hear the expression "keep the money in the game", the phrase specifically strikes out at both TVG and DRF.

As for TVG's new sports-oriented focus and/or programming, this represents the only vector in which they can increase their business, margins, and bottom-line.

Expect that TVG will decrease their weekend focus on horse racing, relegating that programming to perhaps TVG2 which has absolutely zero broadcast (cable network) presence. Second tier racetracks will be featured on a Monday to Wednesday basis and will be squeezed for air time as the sports-focus continues.

There will be on-air talent impacts as Betfair will need to expand into sports-knowledgable and recognized talent. Aside from Dave Weaver who has a foot still in both camps, none of the other horse racing broadcast talent figure to make the transition. When I see the promotional video, I see a number of folks who are celebrating the loss of their own broadcast livelihoods.


That will be a shame on monday's and tuesday's afternoon. Really like the show by Rich Perloff. Only time i watch the network at all. Probably will be zero if he gets pushed out

[horsefan2019]

That will be a shame on monday's and tuesday's afternoon. Really like the show by Rich Perloff. Only time i watch the network at all. Probably will be zero if he gets pushed out

Sounds like his show is safe for now. They kept emphasing the big block of programming dedicated to horse racing during the day. So it sounds like its the European and Australian racing that will probably be offloaded to TVG2

[Trackjudge]

I have been a RTN Satellite feed subscriber for many years as we had no cable or wired internet available until last week.


My satellite dish plus a big TV antenna gives me all I need, plus the RTN feed is high quality, and free of the needless commentary of a TVG or similar feed between the races, as well as seeing a race you want in delayed time if you are not watching the prime TVG track that day.



The amazing thing is the cost to get the same channels I now get on the satellite would be double the satellite feed cost if I were to switch to cable tv.


Keeneland has a live feed starting early in the morning of the home stretch during race days.
Just one camera showing whatever is happening during training hours.


It is quite peaceful to do my morning work in my home office and look up at the horses training on my big screen tv.


I wish NYRA would do the same during Saratoga season, but all they show is a rotating feed of ads.


RTN info here:


https://www.rtn.tv/


tv dish info:
https://www.rtn.tv/package-tv.aspx




online internet info:


https://www.rtn.tv/package-online.aspx


Internet works out to be cheaper if you want a small choice of tracks. The satellite feed is $50 on top of a minimal Dish network subscription. The satellite feed is all tracks unlimited.




I have no affiliation with them.

[pandy]

This is a smart move by TVG. I personally think that sports betting is helping horse betting. The younger generation bets sports and some of them are noticing the horses because of the sports tie in. For example, people who don't normally bet the horses will turn on TVG to watch the sports analysis and be introduced to racing.

[SharpCat]

Internet works out to be cheaper if you want a small choice of tracks. The satellite feed is $50 on top of a minimal Dish network subscription. The satellite feed is all tracks unlimited.




I have no affiliation with them.

RTN is much cheaper if you get the online package. It's $275 for annual subscription with all tracks and race replays. If you want just thoroughbred tracks, it's $165. You're looking at $600 just for RTN threw Dish Network.

I decided to stick with the track feeds from Twinspires as there are some tracks RTN does not carry. I can do up to 8 track feeds on my 32in 4k monitor. I'm going to add a 2nd monitor so I can make each track feed a little bigger.

[The Arbiter]

The changeover happened today.



At 10am they aired 'More Ways to Win', a sports betting analysis show. It was fully branded as Fanduel TV. The hosts opened with some talk about how they were excited to be launching this new 24/7 sports gambling network etc etc. The show then focused on analysis of NFL bets.

At 11am they aired a 'sizzle reel' of many landmark horse racing moments that have happened in the TVG era. It was about ten minutes along and quite nice. Then they went to Ken and Matt in the studio, which I gather were the same two who were on screen when TVG itself was launched. They also exclaim their excitement of launching this new network, but they also talked about their love of horse racing and what was so great about the sport. Clearly they were extending an olive branch to people who had tuned in for the sports gambling show.


After that prelude, it's been business as usual. As I type this, they are previewing Kentucky Downs races.


The biggest change so far (other than the scheduling obviously) is that there is a pretty big 'ticker' at the bottom of the screen that is constantly cycling through sports betting lines. Some will likely be annoyed at this.

[WJ47]

I don't like it, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I hate change.

But yesterday, I tried to call TVG and there was a recording that said due to the Covid 19 pandemic, their employees are working from home. They said I needed to chat or send them an email.

[Trackjudge]

I agree RTN is cheaper through the internet.


Until literally last week, I did not have the internet option so we did not have that avenue to get RTN.


I need to check out the internet feed and compare to the satellite feed, might change over.

[ScottJ]

I don't like it, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. I hate change.

But yesterday, I tried to call TVG and there was a recording that said due to the Covid 19 pandemic, their employees are working from home. They said I needed to chat or send them an email.Keep the money in the game. Stop pushing your dollars to TVG and sign-up with an ADW directly tied to a racetrack. Directly support the purses and the horsepeople.

[ScottJ]

This is a smart move by TVG. I personally think that sports betting is helping horse betting.That's an opinion - where are the facts and figures, pandy? Watching the Meadowlands harness handle, are you convinced that their sports wagering program is helping the harness handle?

The younger generation bets sports and some of them are noticing the horses because of the sports tie in. For example, people who don't normally bet the horses will turn on TVG to watch the sports analysis and be introduced to racing.Younger generation just "turning on" TVG? This is a complete oxymoron. The generation that cannot put their phones down is suddenly grabbing their remote for TVG television? You could not be misreading this situation any more deeply.

[stlseeeek]

once hrtv was done, we were all screwed, having to go back to the horrible tvg.

now it gets even worse.


Horse racing and track owners are the dumbest of any sport. They put their feeds behind pay walls and channels few get. So betors will go else where to bet, or even better sports.

The feeds should be on a channel all tv packages get, regardless of tiers.


You could watch and bet all the cali tracks, then they went stupid and put behind a pay wall and roberts. way to alienate bettors.

[horsefan2019]

Can't see them having enough money to bid for actual sports rights that people care about. It will probably still mostly have horse racing content because the rights are cheap and inexpensive. So the rebranded FanDuel will just have shows about betting lines and there isn't enough general interest for them to have shows all day about that.

[BarchCapper]

I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised this morning. I watch a lot of international racing. In the past the TVG2 channel just mirrored the TVG channel in the mornings until all the US racing got going.

I was watching TVG (hadn't yet rebranded on Roku) and right before 9 AM Eastern they were showing them getting ready to start a race at Sedgefield in the UK. At 9, instead of staying with the race, they switched to Caleb Keller and a UK presenter from the studios, where they proceeded to TALK about the racing we'd be seeing on the main channel from Haydock and Salisbury (sounded like ONLY those).

But to my amazement when I tried switching to TVG2 (soon to be branded FanDuel Racing), I was getting all the UK tracks and the French racing. It was totally different content. So I have a little more hope than I did before for what I'm interested in.

I use RTN for all my US based racewatching.

[castaway01]

People on here have complained literally since its inception about all the ways TVG goes wrong. Now they're updating their focus and people are complaining about the changes. Of course they are.

TVG has always catered to a "casual" racing fan and that annoys the hardcore gamblers. I'm not sure what other choice they've ever had though. If you don't turn casual fans into everyday bettors, you don't have much of a future. I agree with Pandy that making horse racing seem part of the modern gambling world rather an outdated relic is the way to go. It's not as if sports gamblers being exposed to horse racing will make them bet LESS.

[elhelmete]

once hrtv was done, we were all screwed, having to go back to the horrible tvg.

now it gets even worse.


Horse racing and track owners are the dumbest of any sport. They put their feeds behind pay walls and channels few get. So betors will go else where to bet, or even better sports.

The feeds should be on a channel all tv packages get, regardless of tiers.


You could watch and bet all the cali tracks, then they went stupid and put behind a pay wall and roberts. way to alienate bettors.

Cable companies control what channels get on what tiers and at what cost.

[horsefan2019]

I was expecting major changes to the programming but it looks the same as when it was under TVG branding. Other than the ticker on the bottom which got bigger to show to the betting lines. I'm guessing those alternative sports programming is for those dark days when there isn't much racing to show.

[Cutter14]

Thank goodness for RTN--goodbye TVG-As a person that used to bet all sports I have no desire to watch TVG anymore that pushes it in your face---To me their horse racing picks sucked 90% of the time and now they are going to give you tons of losing picks in other sports- just my take---

[Hoops McCann]

well i hope they continue to show the international racing. especially the big races in Japan.

[BarchCapper]

well i hope they continue to show the international racing. especially the big races in Japan.

The FanDuel Racing channel (old TVG2) is currently doing a great job of just showing races from UK/Ireland/France/South Africa without any additional TVG in-house blah-blah these past two mornings. The FD Racing channel also has a minimal ticker at the bottom, with just racing prices and what races are upcoming.

[metro]

Really tacky look, with the banner covering the bottom 1/4th of your screen. Thought it might just be a glitch but it's been up there all day.

[classhandicapper]

Not that I have a solution to what I'm sure are complex business problems, but racing coverage is ridiculous. I spend more time changing channels and ADWs trying to find the races I want to watch and bet than actually handicapping the races. The coverage is constantly bouncing around from channel to channel or to channels I don't even have. It's comical. There should probably be either 1 or 2 sources of racing coverage with one or both covering everything (for better or worse). The TV coverage is starting to feel like the ADW insanity where I can only bet certain tracks at certain ADWs, only get the track feed for some tracks at certain ADWs, or only get replays for certain tracks at certain ADWs etc... It's like the goal is to make people miserable.

[BarchCapper]

Not that I have a solution to what I'm sure are complex business problems, but racing coverage is ridiculous. I spend more time changing channels and ADWs trying to find the races I want to watch and bet than actually handicapping the races. The coverage is constantly bouncing around from channel to channel or to channels I don't even have. It's comical. There should probably be either 1 or 2 sources of racing coverage with one or both covering everything (for better or worse). The TV coverage is starting to feel like the ADW insanity where I can only bet certain tracks at certain ADWs, only get the track feed for some tracks at certain ADWs, or only get replays for certain tracks at certain ADWs etc... It's like the goal is to make people miserable.

Don't know if you're simply looking to vent (which I understand) or are interested in suggestions, but here's what I do:

I used to use the TVG website sidebar with only my favorite tracks enabled to see what races are upcoming (and then use RTN to switch/watch), but though the sidebar is still there, for me in the Safari browser the menu options to pick only TB or Favorite tracks are gone, leaving the sidebar cluttered with harness tracks and other tracks I'm not playing.

Lately, I fire up NYRABets and pick and choose all the races I'm most interested in watching for the day, dragging them into "My Races". Then I open the My Races tab and use it as my guide to when to switch RTN around.

All the best as you try to find the solution that helps you enjoy the races the way you want to.

[GMB@BP]

https://www.drf.com/news/churchill-downs-inc-fanduel-reach-bet-processing-broadcast-rights-deal

I am not smart, what does this mean? If CD was already on TVG what is the change.

[cj]

https://www.drf.com/news/churchill-downs-inc-fanduel-reach-bet-processing-broadcast-rights-deal

I am not smart, what does this mean? If CD was already on TVG what is the change.

Churchill itself (not all the tracks under the brand) had been on the Fox shows. I'm guessing exclusive means that is no longer going to happen.

[elhelmete]

Not that I have a solution to what I'm sure are complex business problems, but racing coverage is ridiculous. I spend more time changing channels and ADWs trying to find the races I want to watch and bet than actually handicapping the races. The coverage is constantly bouncing around from channel to channel or to channels I don't even have. It's comical. There should probably be either 1 or 2 sources of racing coverage with one or both covering everything (for better or worse). The TV coverage is starting to feel like the ADW insanity where I can only bet certain tracks at certain ADWs, only get the track feed for some tracks at certain ADWs, or only get replays for certain tracks at certain ADWs etc... It's like the goal is to make people miserable.

Look what's happening with what it takes to watch other pro sports and racing might not seem so bad.

[Copyroomjim]

NOOO. We'll have Matt, Todd, Ken & Rich etc instead of Acacia, Maggie, Mig & Andy etc.? Have to watch with mute on, again.

[BarchCapper]

Churchill itself (not all the tracks under the brand) had been on the Fox shows. I'm guessing exclusive means that is no longer going to happen.

I found it a pretty interesting move considering the NYRA/CDI partnership on the bet processing entity. Would have thought that would lead to more of a combination of the two, not less.

[cj]

I found it a pretty interesting move considering the NYRA/CDI partnership on the bet processing entity. Would have thought that would lead to more of a combination of the two, not less.

Who knows, really, guess they could lease some programming back to the Fox show. Probably too early to try to figure this stuff out.

[classhandicapper]

Don't know if you're simply looking to vent (which I understand) or are interested in suggestions, but here's what I do:

I used to use the TVG website sidebar with only my favorite tracks enabled to see what races are upcoming (and then use RTN to switch/watch), but though the sidebar is still there, for me in the Safari browser the menu options to pick only TB or Favorite tracks are gone, leaving the sidebar cluttered with harness tracks and other tracks I'm not playing.

Lately, I fire up NYRABets and pick and choose all the races I'm most interested in watching for the day, dragging them into "My Races". Then I open the My Races tab and use it as my guide to when to switch RTN around.

All the best as you try to find the solution that helps you enjoy the races the way you want to.

I tend to focus on the highest quality races. I use Timeform Racefinder to select all the race types I’m interested in and it creates a nice schedule for me for the day. But it gets annoying bouncing back and forth between TVG/FanDuel and Fox and then those shows changing channels during the day, especially because I usually have 2-3 ADWs open at the same time on my computer also because of different features I enjoy on each one.

[shout1966]

Sounds like his show is safe for now. They kept emphasing the big block of programming dedicated to horse racing during the day. So it sounds like its the European and Australian racing that will probably be offloaded to TVG2






As i suspected unless he is on vacation Rich Perloff's shows on monday and tuesday are history.They have replaced a well done show which included the viewers in the show somewhat, with the hacks that try to do both horse racing and sports betting I hope some execs read this and understand how they are going to chase viewers away with this crap and FYI I bet sports but when i watched this channel i am focused on horse racing and really do not like the force fed hacks that now are on the air. An when i mean hacks I mean hacks.

[wisconsin]

As i suspected unless he is on vacation Rich Perloff's shows on monday and tuesday are history.They have replaced a well done show which included the viewers in the show somewhat, with the hacks that try to do both horse racing and sports betting I hope some execs read this and understand how they are going to chase viewers away with this crap and FYI I bet sports but when i watched this channel i am focused on horse racing and really do not like the force fed hacks that now are on the air. An when i mean hacks I mean hacks.


The Monday and Tuesday show was very casual and comfortable, now it's a sensory overload. I don't have a TVG account, so I really don't have a thing to say that matters.

[ScottJ]

https://www.drf.com/news/churchill-downs-inc-fanduel-reach-bet-processing-broadcast-rights-deal

I am not smart, what does this mean? If CD was already on TVG what is the change.CDI has sold a 49% stake in United Tote to a NYRA Holding Company and used their remaining 51% majority position to open the United Tote infrastructure to FanDuel to adding horse racing to sports parlay tickets. Hence, CDI derisks their United Tote position while also creating a potential growth opportunity in the sports wagering market. (Example : Let me have a parlay of football team X, proposition bet Y, and horse Z.)

By making this move however, CDI flags us that their ownership and growth prospects for their Twin Spires ADW cannot possibly be as strong (and consumer sticky) as a TVG partnership would be.

Therefore, in the battle of the tracks needing to own their own ADWs to channel handle directly into their own pools, CDI is from my perspective throwing in the towel. As a result, the alignment with NYRA and the America's Day at the Races broadcasts no longer has direct value to CDI shareholders and those rights gained by FanDuel as a foundation element of the deal could unlock revenue.

We have to examine CDI for what it is : a publicly traded company driven by total shareholder return on capital invested. CDI is real estate rich and revenue/growth weak.

To that end, my view is that you are watching the second step in CDI's fragmented intent to wind down their holdings in horse racing (the first step being Arlington) with FanDuel being a wagering growth engine or a potential acquirer of racetrack assets as with Fairmount Park.

[affirmedny]

As i suspected unless he is on vacation Rich Perloff's shows on monday and tuesday are history.They have replaced a well done show which included the viewers in the show somewhat, with the hacks that try to do both horse racing and sports betting I hope some execs read this and understand how they are going to chase viewers away with this crap and FYI I bet sports but when i watched this channel i am focused on horse racing and really do not like the force fed hacks that now are on the air. An when i mean hacks I mean hacks.

Why would you think he's on vacation? He's been on all afternoon.

[GMB@BP]

CDI has sold a 49% stake in United Tote to a NYRA Holding Company and used their remaining 51% majority position to open the United Tote infrastructure to FanDuel to adding horse racing to sports parlay tickets. Hence, CDI derisks their United Tote position while also creating a potential growth opportunity in the sports wagering market. (Example : Let me have a parlay of football team X, proposition bet Y, and horse Z.)

By making this move however, CDI flags us that their ownership and growth prospects for their Twin Spires ADW cannot possibly be as strong (and consumer sticky) as a TVG partnership would be.

Therefore, in the battle of the tracks needing to own their own ADWs to channel handle directly into their own pools, CDI is from my perspective throwing in the towel. As a result, the alignment with NYRA and the America's Day at the Races broadcasts no longer has direct value to CDI shareholders and those rights gained by FanDuel as a foundation element of the deal could unlock revenue.

We have to examine CDI for what it is : a publicly traded company driven by total shareholder return on capital invested. CDI is real estate rich and revenue/growth weak.

To that end, my view is that you are watching the second step in CDI's fragmented intent to wind down their holdings in horse racing (the first step being Arlington) with FanDuel being a wagering growth engine or a potential acquirer of racetrack assets as with Fairmount Park.

well that explains it pretty well. You think they could develop a property like Churchill Downs into something else, would the City/State even let that happen?

I would imagine not all their properties are great real estate locations like Arlington.

[wisconsin]

It's going to be tougher to watch TVG, sorry, FanDuel, moving forward, the network is under the assumption sports bettors are tuning in for horse racing. Hilarious. They are speaking a new language to horse players who must be too stupid to understand 8-1 is like +800 and visa versa. Also going into abnormal detail aboout horse stuff, starting gates, etc.

[$w1fT]

The horse racing is just filler until the network gets wider distribution and thus able to secure better advertising and programming.

[horsefan2019]

The horse racing is just filler until the network gets wider distribution and thus able to secure better advertising and programming.

Their fate was sealed years ago when it was sold. I'm surprised they didn't make changes a lot sooner since the ownership change.

[Al Gobbi]

https://twitter.com/raylv702/status/1569851471793123330

[ubercapper]

To that end, my view is that you are watching the second step in CDI's fragmented intent to wind down their holdings in horse racing (the first step being Arlington) with FanDuel being a wagering growth engine or a potential acquirer of racetrack assets as with Fairmount Park.

I think you're missing something here and that is cash flow and growth from HHR. CDI is buying Colonial and the Rosie's establishments which they can grow in Virginia (adding more HHR terminals) but that requires for every 100 machines added an additional race day per year so likely another 10 to 30 days at Colonial annually.

Then they just spent $79 million in cash for Ellis Park because of the HHR facility (which they can expand) and are opening a satellite HHR/Simulcast Facility in Owensboro which will bring in millions per month.

Some of that has to go to purses and there's no decoupling possible in Kentucky so along with Turfway, Ellis Park and Churchill there's going to be a strong year round racing circuit in the stated owned by CDI, plus of course Keeneland and Kentucky Downs. In the end, no winding down of CDI's horse racing holdings in these two states whatsoever because they drive shareholder value through HHR.

[ScottJ]

I think you're missing something here and that is cash flow and growth from HHR. CDI is buying Colonial and the Rosie's establishments which they can grow in Virginia (adding more HHR terminals) but that requires for every 100 machines added an additional race day per year so likely another 10 to 30 days at Colonial annually.

Then they just spent $79 million in cash for Ellis Park because of the HHR facility (which they can expand) and are opening a satellite HHR/Simulcast Facility in Owensboro which will bring in millions per month.

Some of that has to go to purses and there's no decoupling possible in Kentucky so along with Turfway, Ellis Park and Churchill there's going to be a strong year round racing circuit in the stated owned by CDI, plus of course Keeneland and Kentucky Downs. In the end, no winding down of CDI's horse racing holdings in these two states whatsoever because they drive shareholder value through HHR.Your thesis depends on the fact that decoupling does not come into reality. How did that work out in Florida?

The $79M in cash made CDI a corporate raid target to gain access to the capital. Buying Ellis Park moves the cash off the books, allows CDI more direct control over the Kentucky racing calendar, and drives the circuit down to three tracks with two owners which is much easier to shrink to two tracks.

For those who think I have this wrong, I understand. But answer just one question : name one racetrack acquisition by CDI which has been a long term success for racing.

[ubercapper]

Your thesis depends on the fact that decoupling does not come into reality. How did that work out in Florida?

For those who think I have this wrong, I understand. But answer just one question : name one racetrack acquisition by CDI which has been a long term success for racing.

Kentucky is not Florida nor Illinois nor California.

There can be NO decoupling. I've lived her 21 years and understand how the politics of this state works. Both the house and senate are pro-racing and the laws enacted which allow for HHR do not have any wiggle room for decoupling, nor will they, dare I say ever.

CDI's acquisition of Turfway Park, and now Ellis Park, is based on the revenue derived from HHR, which they are expanding, and which is tied to racing. Although there's no room for more racing dates on the calendar because Kentucky has a strong year round circuit, there is room to grow purses, continue stable field sizes and attract handle year round with races bettors want to wager on. HHR is of course a way to increase shareholder value, but just like in Virginia, it is inextricably tied to racing so racing will succeed (notwithstanding any extrinsic factors) in both places to enhance shareholder value overall.

[Tom]

https://twitter.com/raylv702/status/1569851471793123330

That info bar is the dumbest thing. If you watch on a 5 foot TV, you can read it. :lol:


TVG hosts making the most f it, Perloff working with others is good.
Everything related to the Fan Duel side just sucks.

[Cuffdaddy]

That info bar is the dumbest thing. If you watch on a 5 foot TV, you can read it. :lol:


TVG hosts making the most f it, Perloff working with others is good.
Everything related to the Fan Duel side just sucks.

That info bar even hides the bottom half when tracks use a split screen.

They do not have the technology to remove the info bar during a race?

[shout1966]

Why would you think he's on vacation? He's been on all afternoon.






My post was before he was on the air.

Really will miss his Monday, Tuesday shows if this is the way it will be.

[castaway01]

Everyone here bitched and moaned about TVG since its inception.

Now TVG has changed, and everyone wants the old TVG back.

You can't make it up.

[cj]

Everyone here bitched and moaned about TVG since its inception.

Now TVG has changed, and everyone wants the old TVG back.

You can't make it up.

I don't have TVG so I don't know what happened, but a change for the worse will do that, no?

[classhandicapper]

I think we'll see how much they care about racing if they fix the info bar.

[Tom]

MSG didn't air TVG at all this weekend, first time in years.
They did during the week......new contract?

[classhandicapper]

MSG didn't air TVG at all this weekend, first time in years.
They did during the week......new contract?

I noticed that also.

I'm one of the few people than never had a problem with TVG. I'm not looking for expert handicapping and betting. I just want to see all the races in a somewhat entertaining and organized way, but I'm not going to pay extra for it. I'll just use the track feeds.

[CheckMark]

MSG didn't air TVG at all this weekend, first time in years.
They did during the week......new contract?

Damn msg not good just like in the Chinese food I ordered wondered if they took it out or not :pound:

[GMB@BP]

I noticed that also.

I'm one of the few people than never had a problem with TVG. I'm not looking for expert handicapping and betting. I just want to see all the races in a somewhat entertaining and organized way, but I'm not going to pay extra for it. I'll just use the track feeds.

everyone bitches about everything.

the fox and nyra coverage is the best in the business yet you hear constant bitches about things.

i always liked tvg though i think they were the last large operating sport to embrace high definition broadcasts.

[Tom]

If you don't bitch, they will never improve.
They probably won't anway, but we can bitch about that next week.:)

[GMB@BP]

If you don't bitch, they will never improve.
They probably won't anway, but we can bitch about that next week.:)

agree, though some of the criticism is not constructive.

[Tom]

But deserved?

[the little guy]

But deserved?

No.

[Tom]

None of it is?
How so?

[the little guy]

None of it is?
How so?

Who said none of it? Greg said "agree, though some of the criticism is not constructive." to which you replied "but deserved?" and I said no.

Some of it is clearly not deserved.

[Tom]

I just re-read the entire thread, and I don't see anything related to TVG that would not be fair game since they implemented the change. There were some positive comments, some negative, some speculation, but a pretty mild thread.
Criticism doesn't need to be constructive, but it does need to be acknowledged when it comes from customers. The product is now of lesser quality than before the change. As customers, that is all we need talk about.

[GMB@BP]

I just re-read the entire thread, and I don't see anything related to TVG that would not be fair game since they implemented the change. There were some positive comments, some negative, some speculation, but a pretty mild thread.
Criticism doesn't need to be constructive, but it does need to be acknowledged when it comes from customers. The product is now of lesser quality than before the change. As customers, that is all we need talk about.

I think we all agree this instance of criticism was warranted, I was talking about the bigger picture.

[classhandicapper]

The product is now of lesser quality than before the change.

And now they want me to pay for it. Of course that assumes I can even find it given the way the racing coverages bounces from channel to channel and even more so on major days. Sometimes I wind up with some sport that should be on ESPN The Ocho when it says "Racing" in the guide. :rolleyes: The whole thing is a bad joke. IMO track feeds from the ADWs are least bad way to go. On average, that's where you get the best detailed coverage of the paddock and other relevant info with the smallest time delay and you have complete control over what you want to watch and when. The only downside is that certain ADWs don't have certain tracks. So at times you may have to use more than one.

[Andy Asaro]

Horse Racing has failed miserably in it's attempts to grow the game. Fan Duel/TVG coverage will only get worse. Covering 5 or more tracks just doesn't work at all. The Fox broadcast is 100 times better but how long before they start to change?

[Tom]

I/m not looking at the big picture or the politics behind abything.
Simply, I am a customer who is getting a lesser product than I was two weeks ago.

I don't care about hi def, I had a screen that I watched races on and now that view is not as good, no chicklettes because of the stupi banner. obscured view of the finish at some tracks.

[GMB@BP]

I/m not looking at the big picture or the politics behind abything.
Simply, I am a customer who is getting a lesser product than I was two weeks ago.

I don't care about hi def, I had a screen that I watched races on and now that view is not as good, no chicklettes because of the stupi banner. obscured view of the finish at some tracks.

Yea its not as good a product. I guess then its time to seek out other competitors rather than support them as the alternative.

[the little guy]

Horse Racing has failed miserably in it's attempts to grow the game. Fan Duel/TVG coverage will only get worse. Covering 5 or more tracks just doesn't work at all. The Fox broadcast is 100 times better but how long before they start to change?

Why would we change?

[$w1fT]

Horse Racing has failed miserably in it's attempts to grow the game. Fan Duel/TVG coverage will only get worse. Covering 5 or more tracks just doesn't work at all. The Fox broadcast is 100 times better but how long before they start to change?

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

[Andy Asaro]

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

[Track Phantom]

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

They failed to grow the customer base for one significant reason. They do not really know who their "potential" customers are.

There is something unique about you, me and those of us lifers in this sport. There is something we have (or don't have) that draws us so tightly to this game especially given the myriad of obstacles that would drive normal people out. I don't know what it is but if it was my business to grow the sport, I would know. I would conduct psychological studies to determine the unique traits we posses and where those people congregate.

I've exposed the sport of horse racing to at least 100 people in my lifetime (friends and family) and not a single one of them got hooked on the sport. But I believe there are thousands of people that are predisposed to stick with this game but have never been exposed to it.

Other forms of gambling have become available and many more convenient. I can't see how horse racing can maintain the relevance (if you can call it that) it has at the moment. But the game has survived dozens of near-death events. Maybe it will continue to do so, albeit on life-support.

[classhandicapper]

CDI linking back up with TVG/FANDUEL just in order to be accessible to more sports bettors shows just how clueless they are and the industry is as a whole.

FIX THE GAMBLING PRODUCT. Fix the cheating and the late odds changes. You think a football bettor that gets a million promos during the week is going to stick to betting juiced trainers, five horse fields, and late odds changes?

Casinos were supposed to help attract new fans to racing. Instead they created zombie tracks that dilute the overall industry handle and only exist because they get casino money.

Now they are going to try a similar thing with sports?

This industry is in the ICU on life support but I'm not sure the leaders of it even realize it. Take away the casino money and purses collapse, more trainers and owners leave, the horse shortage gets worse, and you can't put on a good enough show to get the handle you get now that can't even keep up with inflation let alone grow.

The solution is over my pay grade, but it's obvious you have to pull costs out of the system and use free cash to make the product more attractive. A business model where you use tons of high quality potentially profitable land to run an operation that's dependent on other profitable businesses to keep it alive is a pretty bad business model for the long term.

[ScottJ]

They're going where the money is. Horse Racing FAILED grow the Customer base. The strategy should have been to get the twice a year people to come twice a month and then twice a week. Instead they grew the crazy high rebate class (Players with a bankroll, technology, and skill advantage).

If they wanted to fix the Gambling product they would.

They failed to grow the customer base for one significant reason. They do not really know who their "potential" customers are.The key theme being expressed by both posts is that there is not a single marketing strategy that covers all demographics in the game. One strategy is to rebate large players and that does not compete with the conversion of a casual summer time player into a Spring/Autumn or year-round player.

Does the bachelor/bachelorette party in Saratoga's backyard worry about a rebate based on their betting? Does the CAW gambler worry about getting dressed up for the event or an extra cocktail?

I would profer that NYRA in particular does understand its customer types and you are seeing that glacial evolution take place in front of our eyes including the America's Day at the Races and Saratoga Live broadcasts.

As much as it pains me to say it, revisualizing Belmont Park is part of that process. The long game is to create an event destination at Belmont Park to appeal to the in-person demographic on Long Island and in the New York region while continuing to expose the product via television.

And make no mistake, NYRA is doing both virtually on their own.

The NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL succeed as national leagues. In horse racing, the game is either local or at best, a state-wide endeavor. Imagine the waste over the last two decades of ineffective local marketing dollars that could have been better directed at the broader sport in consideration of those varied demographics.

[ScottJ]

There is something unique about you, me and those of us lifers in this sport. There is something we have (or don't have) that draws us so tightly to this game especially given the myriad of obstacles that would drive normal people out. I don't know what it is but if it was my business to grow the sport, I would know. I would conduct psychological studies to determine the unique traits we posses and where those people congregate.

I've exposed the sport of horse racing to at least 100 people in my lifetime (friends and family) and not a single one of them got hooked on the sport. But I believe there are thousands of people that are predisposed to stick with this game but have never been exposed to it.

Other forms of gambling have become available and many more convenient. I can't see how horse racing can maintain the relevance (if you can call it that) it has at the moment. But the game has survived dozens of near-death events. Maybe it will continue to do so, albeit on life-support.Great post! How and when you learn about the game is so critical.

Like many of you on this board, I started to learn the game when I was seven years old and I was taught by my father - who learned about racing from his family and so forth. As a mathematician (which I was not at the time obviously), the numbers, statistics, calculations, toteboard, and likely compulsive desire to be right all drew me to the animals circling the oval in front of me. The challenge of handicapping was always first in my mind; the sport was second.

Why do we try to teach algebra to eighth and ninth graders? Why do you struggle to learn a new language in your fifties? Research shows that those pathways to learning are most fertile before you are 18 years old. If you have not mastered algebra by the time you head to college, chances are you never will.

And what does that have to do with anything? Well, come back to me making my first visit to Aqueduct when I was 8 years old; add in Roosevelt and the cool vibes of "night racing" when I was 12.

There were not a million youth sports leagues competing for my time. Distractions from a Mattel Intellivision or Atari gaming system were still years away. Mom and Dad were still a one-wage earner family and aside from mowing the lawn on Friday night or Saturday morning, household tasks were largely done during the week. Weekends were made for racing in my life. (And I have made it this far without using the expression "halceon days" even once.)

I learned the game while in my formative years. My guess is that many of us did. Moreso, I guess is that at least some of us can remember being at the track with our Dads. Effectively, it became part of our DNA. Our families did the marketing to us.

Looking through today's prism, these parameters have changed. The entire lifecycle of creating a fan has changed. At its core, that is what we are discussing. The education cycle has been placed at the doorstep of marketing. My decade long childhood experience is getting compressed into a 60-second commercial on television.

[Sheffwed]

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)

2) do what you can to make wagering profitable for the average player - why do the big players get these enormous rebates? I'm a small player and have my successes and am a small owner - this is the way to bring in more casual bettors who just want to have some fun - I don't see how helping the big guns helps anyone - it's like carried interest in private equity helped Boston become a boomtown, who is that helping and not exactly

3) and the thing that isn't happening is cracking down on corruption in the game - HK does this well and is a model for how this can work (for all of their other challenges as a region these days), here in the US you have to pick your spots knowing a race may not be on the level at a given moment

Very tired of the doomsayers, racing is dead or dying - no its not, not in the face of record handle and record crowds this summer

There is too much low level racing - I don't mean Mountaineer, which I love, I mean New Mexico and Arizona and those abusive off the radar Georgia tracks, lots of work to be done, but not a dead sport, in fact in some ways the sport has more potential now than it has in my life, and I'm in my early 60s

[$w1fT]

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)

2) do what you can to make wagering profitable for the average player - why do the big players get these enormous rebates? I'm a small player and have my successes and am a small owner - this is the way to bring in more casual bettors who just want to have some fun - I don't see how helping the big guns helps anyone - it's like carried interest in private equity helped Boston become a boomtown, who is that helping and not exactly

3) and the thing that isn't happening is cracking down on corruption in the game - HK does this well and is a model for how this can work (for all of their other challenges as a region these days), here in the US you have to pick your spots knowing a race may not be on the level at a given moment

Very tired of the doomsayers, racing is dead or dying - no its not, not in the face of record handle and record crowds this summer

There is too much low level racing - I don't mean Mountaineer, which I love, I mean New Mexico and Arizona and those abusive off the radar Georgia tracks, lots of work to be done, but not a dead sport, in fact in some ways the sport has more potential now than it has in my life, and I'm in my early 60s

100% Agreed.

Hard for every track to follow the Saratoga model because of the location and time of year. But tracks need to be less concrete monstrosities and more of events places.

Coolers, cheap admission, something for all ages to do. Give a family of 4 a reason to go to the track and spend $100 instead of $300 at a baseball game.

[classhandicapper]

the way to promote the game is as Scott says

1) make racing a positive social outing - it is why Saratoga and Del Mar had great seasons, they are fun places to visit - the more of this the better for the sport, I'd check out the success some local steeplechase meetings have also - stop having racing run in racetracks that look like factories and make it a fun place to visit and the sport will be fine and can build from there (hint: given record handle this year, the sport is fine in this country and many others)




I've been saying things along these lines for the longest time.

The most successful tracks have been the ones that offer high quality racing and that can be part of a pleasant overall vacation experience.

People don't need to go to the track anymore to bet. To get the casuals and even serious players out there it has to be enough of a positive experience relative to just betting from home to make it worthwhile.

There are only a handful of tracks in the country that offer high quality racing, a great on track experience, and that can part of a nice overall vacation experience.

But when you say things like this people start freaking out about losing industry jobs, breeding, etc... We have a patient suffering from severe heart issues and we are still giving him baby aspirins and watching him slowly deteriorate instead performing the major surgery that's required.

(On your last point, it's all a mirage in the US. Handle is WAY down from its peak in inflation adjusted dollars despite the country being at an economic peak with high employment and free money from the government. That economic tail wind is not going to last, especially with the Fed tightening to fight inflation. There's an old saying. "You don't know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out". When the tide goes out (and it will - maybe soon), we are going to see that a lot of tracks are naked).

[elhelmete]

Very little can be done to compensate for the precipitously declining foal crop. The YOY numbers from 2020 to 2021 are sobering.

[Zydeco]

They just showed a harness race labeled as "Charlestown 1" was very confused. Going to bed. lol

[GMB@BP]

Very little can be done to compensate for the precipitously declining foal crop. The YOY numbers from 2020 to 2021 are sobering.

yea the numbers are pretty staggering.

[classhandicapper]

The foal crop numbers are less frightening as long as horses like Into Mischief, Curlin, Gun Runner, Tap It and the entire 1st and 2nd tier of sires keep breeding at the same rate. If horses of much lower quality (like some 3rd and 4th tier state bred programs) are breeding less, it's less of a problem because they are less likely to produce the kind of offspring that will populate major races at major tracks. After that, the number of races (or more importantly tracks!) has to match the foal crop. However, talk like that puts everyone into a tizzy fit. The only other alternative is figuring out a way to increase demand for horses so breeders breed more of them. That takes you right back to the economics of horse ownership. They tend to be pretty bad. That's why there isn't huge demand for horses except at the top end.

[lamboguy]

The foal crop numbers are less frightening as long as horses like Into Mischief, Curlin, Gun Runner, Tap It and the entire 1st and 2nd tier of sires keep breeding at the same rate. If horses of much lower quality (like some 3rd and 4th tier state bred programs) are breeding less, it's less of a problem because they are less likely to produce the kind of offspring that will populate major races at major tracks. After that, the number of races (or more importantly tracks!) has to match the foal crop. However, talk like that puts everyone into a tizzy fit. The only other alternative is figuring out a way to increase demand for horses so breeders breed more of them. That takes you right back to the economics of horse ownership. They tend to be pretty bad. That's why there isn't huge demand for horses except at the top end.there is plenty of demand for horses that used to sell for $10,000 now $40,000. the Koreans and Vietnamese are the buyers of those horses and bring them back home with them.

[classhandicapper]

there is plenty of demand for horses that used to sell for $10,000 now $40,000. the Koreans and Vietnamese are the buyers of those horses and bring them back home with them.

I'm not familiar with the economics of racing overseas, but there must be a reason for that.

[elhelmete]

The foal crop numbers are less frightening as long as horses like Into Mischief, Curlin, Gun Runner, Tap It and the entire 1st and 2nd tier of sires keep breeding at the same rate. If horses of much lower quality (like some 3rd and 4th tier state bred programs) are breeding less, it's less of a problem because they are less likely to produce the kind of offspring that will populate major races at major tracks. After that, the number of races (or more importantly tracks!) has to match the foal crop. However, talk like that puts everyone into a tizzy fit. The only other alternative is figuring out a way to increase demand for horses so breeders breed more of them. That takes you right back to the economics of horse ownership. They tend to be pretty bad. That's why there isn't huge demand for horses except at the top end.

This from the JC website:

Number of Mares Reported Bred to Thoroughbred Stallions in 2021

Stallion Mares
Practical Joke 231
Goldencents 230
Authentic 229
Vekoma 222
Maclean's Music 221
Munnings 219
Into Mischief 216
Omaha Beach 215
McKinzie 214
Mitole 208

[BarchCapper]

After that, the number of races (or more importantly tracks!) has to match the foal crop.]

How's that fewer and fewer tracks working out for dog racing?

[classhandicapper]

]

How's that fewer and fewer tracks working out for dog racing?

Dog racing had problems that horse racing is trying to avoid as we speak.

I'd way rather the industry be booming, handle growth be outpacing inflation, old tracks investing in infrastructure, new modern tracks opening, breeding numbers rising, new owners chasing after bigger purses, enough free cash to do all that and lower the take etc..

The problem is no one has been able to figure out a way to increase demand across the industry while simultaneously paying the bills. The best they've been able to do is keep the doors open by taking casino money.

At some point math wins.

The revenue has to keep up with inflation because the costs certainly will.

If you can't find a way to increase revenue you have to find a way to take costs out of the system and consolidate revenue. That at least gives you the free cash to invest and try to turn this vicious cycle into a virtuous one.

If someone has a better idea, I'm all for it. The solutions are over my pay grade. I've just seen this story play out in dozens of industries over the last 35-40 years from watching the action on Wall St. Rapid consolidation is very painful, but it beats a slow death.

Again, I'm all ears. I'm just an observer that doesn't want to see the game die because the leadership refuses to accept math and doesn't have a better idea.

[BarchCapper]

If someone has a better idea, I'm all for it. The solutions are over my pay grade. I've just seen this story play out in dozens of industries over the last 35-40 years from watching the action on Wall St. Rapid consolidation is very painful, but it beats a slow death.



Many, many fair points in your comments. I know you want to see the sport thrive, as I do.

My one comment to the particular point you make above is that IMO rapid consolidation likely leads to more rapid elimination in a sport/industry that doesn't NEED to exist. If the consolidation results in tracks located in states without a lot of other horse "presence" - it makes total elimination that much easier.

[rastajenk]

Casinos were supposed to help attract new fans to racing. That's not the way I remember it. Casinos hooked up with racetracks to attract fans to casinos in areas that didn't have them yet.

[elhelmete]

That's not the way I remember it. Casinos hooked up with racetracks to attract fans to casinos in areas that didn't have them yet.

For decades racing was the only venue outside of NV where one could bet legally. In many cases the tracks were able to leverage that in making deals with casinos in other states. As time goes on that leverage is waning.

[GMB@BP]

That's not the way I remember it. Casinos hooked up with racetracks to attract fans to casinos in areas that didn't have them yet.

I thought Casinos hooked up with race tracks to circumvent state laws that prevented them being placed on other property, I dont think Casinos cared one way or the other about racing players or fans.

[Redboard]

It's a nothingburger for me. First, only these states can you bet on the NFL: AZ, CO, CT, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, MI, NJ, NY, PA, TN, VA, WV & WY. I don't live there.
Second, my ADW is TVG.com, but I never watch TVG. I only bet on the big days and Saratoga or when I visit a racetrack in person. I do have to watch TVG today because of the Parx big day. It does suck.

[ronsmac]

It's a nothingburger for me. First, only these states can you bet on the NFL: AZ, CO, CT, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, MI, NJ, NY, PA, TN, VA, WV & WY. I don't live there.
Second, my ADW is TVG.com, but I never watch TVG. I only bet on the big days and Saratoga or when I visit a racetrack in person. I do have to watch TVG today because of the Parx big day. It does suck.
You can bet on the NFL legally in Maryland but only at the casinos.