Saratoga 2022, will gas prices have an effect on track attendance?

[westernmassbob]

With gas prices averaging about 2.00 more per gallon then in 2021 I wonder if this will be a challenge to get those day trippers coming back to the track ?

I ask this because of a conversation I overheard at a local OTB between some older fellows about going to Saratoga this year. They pretty much were in agreement that unless gas prices went down they weren’t going to make the trek this year.

Anyway I love Saratoga so I will be there but maybe NYRA can come up with some type of gas gift card giveaway. It would make a great promotion for a weekday as I suspect those would be the days attendance could drop off because of the gas prices. It seems a company like “ Stewart’s” might be a good business to work with on this one. Just an idea.

[geroge.burns99]

With gas prices averaging about 2.00 more per gallon then in 2021 I wonder if this will be a challenge to get those day trippers coming back to the track ?

I ask this because of a conversation I overheard at a local OTB between some older fellows about going to Saratoga this year. They pretty much were in agreement that unless gas prices went down they weren’t going to make the trek this year.

Anyway I love Saratoga so I will be there but maybe NYRA can come up with some type of gas gift card giveaway. It would make a great promotion for a weekday as I suspect those would be the days attendance could drop off because of the gas prices. It seems a company like “ Stewart’s” might be a good business to work with on this one. Just an idea.

People are spending thousands to stay , eat, gamble at Saratoga...

Gas prices should be the least of their worries...

:cool:

[Bustin Stones]

"should be" is the operative term.
People will cuss about spending an extra $20 on a tank full on their way to dropping $200 at a restaurant or insisting they have to buy the name brand breakfast cereal instead of the generic.
It's a matter of psychology. Gasoline holds a special place.
While it's true that the price of fuel is important to inflating the price of every thing else, it's not so much to do with the family budget as a gasoline purchase.

[westernmassbob]

People are spending thousands to stay , eat, gamble at Saratoga...

Gas prices should be the least of their worries...

:cool:

Yes of course. This was meant for the day trip crowd that don’t stay overnight. Personally the gas prices won’t keep me away from visiting Toga but obviously it will some. Actually more then you would think. It’s happened before.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe we should move Saratoga Race Course closer to NYC then?

[MooseDog]

People are spending thousands to stay , eat, gamble at Saratoga...

Gas prices should be the least of their worries...

:cool:

A great point!

Honestly curious about the focus on gas prices. I realize a lot of it is political in nature but here's my situation:

~100 mile round trip commute 5x week
drive a 30+ mpg hybrid SUV
Live in CA with among the highest gas prices in the US
don't drive like a maniac but not like an old lady either

I'm not a tech worker with a 6 figure salary and yeah, CA is just about more expensive than anywnere. I track just about every penny and I'm paying about $20/more a week at this point. Seeing those numbers come up on the pump are a little shocking but I'm not having to change my life around it.

[westernmassbob]

Maybe we should move Saratoga Race Course closer to NYC then?

Cmon really ? It’s still a 2 hour drive for a lot of day trippers. All I’m saying is hey all NYRA has to do is revisit 2005 and they won’t need a crystal ball to predict a drop off of attendance for this year. They have the info so they can choose how to handle it. Most people don’t realize it’s not about the handle as it is important for the local businesses that need the people coming in.

[the little guy]

I think we should revisit's Bob's predictions for Saratoga 2001....

Post 1 is a doozy....


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163149

[MonmouthParkJoe]

With gas prices averaging about 2.00 more per gallon then in 2021 I wonder if this will be a challenge to get those day trippers coming back to the track ?

I ask this because of a conversation I overheard at a local OTB between some older fellows about going to Saratoga this year. They pretty much were in agreement that unless gas prices went down they weren’t going to make the trek this year.

Anyway I love Saratoga so I will be there but maybe NYRA can come up with some type of gas gift card giveaway. It would make a great promotion for a weekday as I suspect those would be the days attendance could drop off because of the gas prices. It seems a company like “ Stewart’s” might be a good business to work with on this one. Just an idea.

About 400 miles round trip for me. I generally get about 40+ miles per gallon, so even at $2 more a gallon figure $15-$20 more per trip.

Definitely would not think twice about it when going up there.

Best place on earth.

[geroge.burns99]

About 400 miles round trip for me. I generally get about 40+ miles per gallon, so even at $2 more a gallon figure $15-$20 more per trip.

Definitely would not think twice about it when going up there.

Best place on earth.

:ThmbUp:

[the little guy]

About 400 miles round trip for me. I generally get about 40+ miles per gallon, so even at $2 more a gallon figure $15-$20 more per trip.

Definitely would not think twice about it when going up there.

Best place on earth.

and here I was hoping if there was one guy....

[Suff]

https://i.ibb.co/HqJ7SJd/2022-06-21-15-29-58.png (https://ibb.co/yq3093S)

[alhattab]

With gas prices averaging about 2.00 more per gallon then in 2021 I wonder if this will be a challenge to get those day trippers coming back to the track ?

I ask this because of a conversation I overheard at a local OTB between some older fellows about going to Saratoga this year. They pretty much were in agreement that unless gas prices went down they weren’t going to make the trek this year.

Anyway I love Saratoga so I will be there but maybe NYRA can come up with some type of gas gift card giveaway. It would make a great promotion for a weekday as I suspect those would be the days attendance could drop off because of the gas prices. It seems a company like “ Stewart’s” might be a good business to work with on this one. Just an idea.

Oil was a topic in the 70s- not so much due to pricing but due to availability. The NY Times ran a piece in January 1974 with the headline "Saratoga Shutdown Is ‘Inconceivable,’ Governor Assures Racing Interests". The piece said, in part "...rumors of possible shutdown had continued. State law provides that upstate action can be transferred to a downstate track in time of emergency, and there was talk of a switch this year because of the energy crisis. Upstate Republicans, whose party controls both houses of the Legislature, have never found that kind of talk acceptable. Governor Wilson issued his position paper to “correct any misconception” that might have developed."

I saw a few other interesting pieces. One was a letter or Op-Ed written in February 1979 with the headline "Saratoga Is Forever, No Matter What the Racing Board Says"- apparently the NYSRWB felt August in Saratoga had a detrimental effect on revenues because downstate players migrated to The Meadowlands (3 years old at the time) with their wagering dollars. TLG maybe you recall this but not sure if you were in Saratoga at this time.

Another one talked about how Saratoga was going to bid on the Hambletonian, to be run at the racecourse, not the harness track, because the Hambletonian Society required the race to be run on a one mile oval (before the Hambo was at The Meadowlands, it was run at DuQuoin at I believe the Illinois State Fair.

And finally there was a travel column written with restaurant recommendations in 1979, and no mention of Mother Goldsmith's or The Country Gentleman (Hatties, and Mrs. London's- of those that remain- where)

[alhattab]

About 400 miles round trip for me. I generally get about 40+ miles per gallon, so even at $2 more a gallon figure $15-$20 more per trip.

Definitely would not think twice about it when going up there.

Best place on earth.

40 MPG?! What do you drive?

I made I think 5-6 round trips last year and got there for say 20 cards. All else being equal, no chance I would do same this year.

[geroge.burns99]

40 MPG?! What do you drive?

I made I think 5-6 round trips last year and got there for say 20 cards. All else being equal, no chance I would do same this year.

Either it's 6 ,5 or 1 trips ...

People shouldn't deny themselves of something special....

We are too old to worry about things we can't control...

Mike

[Suff]

New profile picture

[geroge.burns99]

New profile picture

Well, Hello Big Boy....


:lol:

[geroge.burns99]

PS....

If your so worried about gas prices ....

Use an electric vehicle.....


I'll honk while passing you when your stuck on the side of the road with no power



:lol:

[Redboard]

The big shutdown were the WW2 years. SPA was closed with excuse being gas rationing. Less drive for people to the "down state" tracks.

Some thought this was BS and NYRA was just doing it because the "down state" tracks got more attendance. This led to the NY state legistrators passing a bill requiring a certain amount of racing days in Saratoga. My how times have changed..

[westernmassbob]

I think we should revisit's Bob's predictions for Saratoga 2001....

Post 1 is a doozy....


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163149

Yeah and I wasn’t far off with those predictions. Remember though that was all covid related. Nobody would have ever predicted that Saratoga would be shut down to fans because of a virus. It wasn’t extreme thinking at that time. Covid restrictions seemed to change daily.

Anyway the gas crisis and inflation is a different topic. I don’t need to give you the specifics about 2005 as you already know. The point is that this year mimics that year with some of the same challenges. How is NYRA preparing for this and what are they doing to mitigate an almost guarantee of a decrease in attendance ? My suggestion is gas gift card giveaway days. What is your suggestion?

Just for your record I love Saratoga and the racing venue. I want them to be successful. I will continue to support them year after year.

[$w1fT]

Yeah and I wasn’t far off with those predictions. Remember though that was all covid related. Nobody would have ever predicted that Saratoga would be shut down to fans because of a virus. It wasn’t extreme thinking at that time. Covid restrictions seemed to change daily.

Anyway the gas crisis and inflation is a different topic. I don’t need to give you the specifics about 2005 as you already know. The point is that this year mimics that year with some of the same challenges. How is NYRA preparing for this and what are they doing to mitigate an almost guarantee of a decrease in attendance ? My suggestion is gas gift card giveaway days. What is your suggestion?

Just for your record I love Saratoga and the racing venue. I want them to be successful. I will continue to support them year after year.

I'm sorry, but you were way off with your predictions.

Saratoga was at 100% capacity last year, no restrictions on attendance.

Masks were not required to be worn.

I don't remember there being a shortage of workers or concessions/betting stands closed.

The layout of the picnic tables was not changed to accommodate "social distancing".

[westernmassbob]

I'm sorry, but you were way off with your predictions.

Saratoga was at 100% capacity last year, no restrictions on attendance.

Masks were not required to be worn.

I don't remember there being a shortage of workers or concessions/betting stands closed.

The layout of the picnic tables was not changed to accommodate "social distancing".

Saratoga didn’t change to 100% capacity until June ...before that it was going to be 90%. Like I said covid restrictions changed almost weekly.

Non vaccinated patrons were still required to wear a face mask. Well documented fact. I will say that would be hard to enforce unless they checked for vaccination status which they ended up not doing.

There was a shortage of help at Saratoga and there was a reduction of tellers and less food service workers etc. Well documented fact.

Saratoga did implement new social distancing areas but it didn’t effect the picnic tables.

[the little guy]

Yeah and I wasn’t far off with those predictions. Remember though that was all covid related. Nobody would have ever predicted that Saratoga would be shut down to fans because of a virus. It wasn’t extreme thinking at that time. Covid restrictions seemed to change daily.

Anyway the gas crisis and inflation is a different topic. I don’t need to give you the specifics about 2005 as you already know. The point is that this year mimics that year with some of the same challenges. How is NYRA preparing for this and what are they doing to mitigate an almost guarantee of a decrease in attendance ? My suggestion is gas gift card giveaway days. What is your suggestion?

Just for your record I love Saratoga and the racing venue. I want them to be successful. I will continue to support them year after year.

You were way off on everything. No harm done. it's just funny.

You love Saratoga. You knock NYRA non-stop. Fine. You are certainly allowed to. Just be honest for a change. We'll be OK.

Stop by and introduce yourself this year. I think you will find that in person people get along much better than they do on the internet:-)

[westernmassbob]

You were way off on everything. No harm done. it's just funny.

You love Saratoga. You knock NYRA non-stop. Fine. You are certainly allowed to. Just be honest for a change. We'll be OK.

Stop by and introduce yourself this year. I think you will find that in person people get along much better than they do on the internet:-)


I get along just fine with everyone Andy .....geez just because people don’t want to agree with facts and or opinions doesn’t mean we aren’t getting along. I like to offer resolutions and ideas when I see opportunities. Andy can you please just answer two questions for me without being snarky?

1. Do you think there is a possibility that track attendance will be down @ Saratoga 2022 because of the gas prices/ inflation ?

2. If you believe that is a possibility what would you have for an idea to mitigate ?

BTW I’m not saying overall handle will be down but we all can agree how important on track attendance is for Saratoga.

[$w1fT]

Saratoga didn’t change to 100% capacity until June ...before that it was going to be 90%. Like I said covid restrictions changed almost weekly.

Non vaccinated patrons were still required to wear a face mask. Well documented fact. I will say that would be hard to enforce unless they checked for vaccination status which they ended up not doing.

There was a shortage of help at Saratoga and there was a reduction of tellers and less food service workers etc. Well documented fact.

Saratoga did implement new social distancing areas but it didn’t effect the picnic tables.

The meet didn't start until July, so what does June capacity requirements have to do with anything?

I don't know where those new social distancing areas were at the track. You will have to refresh my memory on that one.

[the little guy]

I get along just fine with everyone Andy .....geez just because people don’t want to agree with facts and or opinions doesn’t mean we aren’t getting along. I like to offer resolutions and ideas when I see opportunities. Andy can you please just answer two questions for me without being snarky?

1. Do you think there is a possibility that track attendance will be down @ Saratoga 2022 because of the gas prices/ inflation ?

2. If you believe that is a possibility what would you have for an idea to mitigate ?

BTW I’m not saying overall handle will be down but we all can agree how important on track attendance is for Saratoga.

On track attendance is a mediocre measure of success and weather will play a far more important role than gas prices. That's fairly obvious. I can't predict weather. I don't try to predict weather. I hope for the best. It's clear Saratoga is wildly popular. Any attendance number means little to me one way or another. I have very different concerns. To each their own.

I don't make predictions outside of trying to figure out who will outrun their odds. It's easier that way.

[westernmassbob]

The meet didn't start until July, so what does June capacity requirements have to do with anything?

I don't know where those new social distancing areas were at the track. You will have to refresh my memory on that one.

Saratoga changed the original capacity limits in June when the Governor lifted restrictions,.before that the planned capacity was 90%. By June the vaccination rate went way up so that’s why the change.

The new social distancing area was the drive-up tailgate area located at the first turn adjacent to the 1863 club.

[westernmassbob]

On track attendance is a mediocre measure of success and weather will play a far more important role than gas prices. That's fairly obvious. I can't predict weather. I don't try to predict weather. I hope for the best. It's clear Saratoga is wildly popular. Any attendance number means little to me one way or another. I have very different concerns. To each their own.

I don't make predictions outside of trying to figure out who will outrun their odds. It's easier that way.

I got the response I was expecting and at least you are consistent. I guess on track attendance is not important as long as NYRA is making its money. Forget about all the other connections...to the food truck workers and waitstaff counting on tips...there is a domino effect..I could go on and on.

[the little guy]

I got the response I was expecting and at least you are consistent. I guess on track attendance is not important as long as NYRA is making its money. Forget about all the other connections...to the food truck workers and waitstaff counting on tips...there is a domino effect..I could go on and on.

I won't make the mistake of responding to you again. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

You just can't help yourself. Can't be easy being you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Can't we find a way to blame NYRA itself for the price of gasoline?

[Speed Figure]

Can't we find a way to blame NYRA itself for the price of gasoline?
Gas stations were forced to raise the price of gas because of the short fields in stake races!

[JustRalph]

Gas stations were forced to raise the price of gas because of the short fields in stake races!

The $11 beers have nothing to do with it :lol:

[judehaz]

I think this does bring up an interesting point. I was an econ major in college, and one of the funny things about people is their individual utility function. A utility function basically represents how much satisfaction you receive from consumption. This is a mass oversimplification, but here's an example...

I used to NEVER buy the clubhouse exchange at Saratoga. I'm thinking, I get to roam the grounds, see the people, what's the point of paying "extra" for the clubhouse. As I got older, I realized I'm paying maybe $10 to park in someone's yard (or $30+ to Uber to the track), how much in ice, beer, food, etc., extra for the DRF program, and have probably dropped $50 by the first few races in bets.

So yeah, I decided the extra few bucks to have less, and generally more well behaved, people around and stand in the Jim Dandy in front of a fan every so often is a good deal.

But there are some people who will park downtown and walk a mile to the track to save on the cost of parking, then drop $20 on the first race. People are weird.

Man, I can't wait for Saratoga...

[burnsy]

I got the response I was expecting and at least you are consistent. I guess on track attendance is not important as long as NYRA is making its money. Forget about all the other connections...to the food truck workers and waitstaff counting on tips...there is a domino effect..I could go on and on.

I think they are nicely trying to say you are nit picking. I don’t work for NYRA or the track but I’m there at least 30 of the 40 days. Last year I couldn’t tell the difference between that year and any other year. Yeah, they were short some food service but the food there isn’t really a highlight for me. As for tellers. People that really bet regularly don’t really need them.

Finally, people that love Saratoga and racing for the most part are not going to abandon it for 10 or 20 bucks. Maybe a few family types will or cut back . But the regular customer makes it a point of being here. There’s people that wait all summer for opening day! I don’t see there being a dent in attendance or handle unless the weather is unbearable. People think everyone travels from far away. And many do. But the Capital District and surrounding areas around here contributes greatly. The local contingent will probably be in full force. Will a few people cut back? Possibly. But the business owners around here are already jacked up and predicting another banner year.

[classhandicapper]

There are a lot of moving parts in handle, but there has to be some correlation to economic activity. If food, gasoline, other energy, interest payments on loans etc.. are all going up and the market is going down, for many people that means there's less money available for other things. How much of that comes out of vacationing in Saratoga, handle, etc.. is anyone's guess. But it can't be zero. To be clear, handle could be up anyway, but less than it otherwise would have been. I don't think it's knowable.

I think we are too close to Saratoga now to worry about jobs. But if (or should I say when) the current tightening starts impacting economic activity enough to cause job losses, that will also be a factor. Maybe that will hit Belmont fall or AQU winter, but that's a guess. I can't predict the Fed's moves. I can only predict they will screw it up. :lol:

[westernmassbob]

I think they are nicely trying to say you are nit picking. I don’t work for NYRA or the track but I’m there at least 30 of the 40 days. Last year I couldn’t tell the difference between that year and any other year. Yeah, they were short some food service but the food there isn’t really a highlight for me. As for tellers. People that really bet regularly don’t really need them.

Finally, people that love Saratoga and racing for the most part are not going to abandon it for 10 or 20 bucks. Maybe a few family types will or cut back . But the regular customer makes it a point of being here. There’s people that wait all summer for opening day! I don’t see there being a dent in attendance or handle unless the weather is unbearable. People think everyone travels from far away. And many do. But the Capital District and surrounding areas around here contributes greatly. The local contingent will probably be in full force. Will a few people cut back? Possibly. But the business owners around here are already jacked up and predicting another banner year.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I’m not nit picking because all I did was ask a question and offer a possible remedy to mitigate what could happen. I based it on history....especially Toga 2005...even though things are far worse off now economy wise. The loss could be as low as 3-5% of on track attendance not counting weather. Like I said I hope Saratoga has a banner year but with things like this you need to be proactive. They have history to go by. I’m calling it now...Saratoga will have some type of promotion based on the current price of gas which by the way could be up to 7.00 a gallon by August. Hopefully not. Typically Saratoga can take attendance for granted as it’s a special place to be...this year will be different. Best wishes for a huge season at the track Burnsy!

[Elkchester Road]

Can't we find a way to blame NYRA itself for the price of gasoline?

:lol::lol::lol:

[Suff]

Third floor. TURF CLUB TERRACE. vip, big shots, fancy people.

https://i.ibb.co/myywk6V/IMG-0074.jpg (https://ibb.co/Jpp4V5w)




I have coffee & 420 up here, 7am. Watch some workouts. The floor creeks like an old attic. Not a little, every step is creek, creek creek. 😆

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Me hanging @ Siros w/smoke show after races.




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.

Information
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[Suff]

Looking out of Turf Club , a good look at the Copper roofing on the new 1863 clubhouse.

https://i.ibb.co/WPTyycC/IMG-0072.jpg (https://ibb.co/k9d88hZ)







There's another level hidden up here.

You see it up in the top left of this image.

White glove full dining up here. Waiters in tuxedos, champagne table service. New Yorkers know how to do this shit well.


https://i.ibb.co/CVddRkM/IMG-0076.jpg (https://ibb.co/bNhhcS2)

[biggestal99]

But there are some people who will park downtown and walk a mile to the track to save on the cost of parking, then drop $20 on the first race. People are weird.
...

we just park in the back for free and school bus it in, easy exit too.

do they still have that service, they did the last time i was there. (pre covid)

Allan

[burnsy]

I park on Fifth ave , Madison ave or Ludlow for free every day! The year I had a parking pass was freaking Covid! But I never pay. My cooler has wheels! I buy a Club House pass every year. There are ways! Just use your head.

See Suff knows where it’s at! See you August ! :headbanger: Spleef!

[andicap]

This has nothing to do with gas prices, but about 20 years ago I'm at Saratoga the same time as a certain music festival was going on. I'm walking into the track along one of the side streets; a car sidles up next to me and the driver asks, "Is this Woodstock?"

:D:D

[Tom]

Gas stations were forced to raise the price of gas because of the short fields in stake races!

That's the spirit! :lol::lol::lol: