Salvatore Mile

[Bullet Plane]

Yep

Thrilling stretch dual. Hot Rod Charlie lays it down. He is game.

[cj]

HRC is pretty clearly a hanger to my eye. Outside of Midnight Bourbon, a horse that couldn't finish a race, he never beats anyone when it matters.

[the little guy]

HRC is pretty clearly a hanger to my eye. Outside of Midnight Bourbon, a horse that couldn't finish a race, he never beats anyone when it matters.

I wouldn't have described him as game:-)

[Andy Asaro]

What we learned: Two excuses for Hot Rod Charlie's loss

Excerpt:

For one, some horses returning from racing in the Middle East need at least one start to get back into the flow of racing on this soil. Whether the runner in question competes in the Saudi Cup or Dubai World Cup, or both, the desert life can prove taxing on horses not based there.

In other words, Hot Rod Charlie likely did not feel 100 percent in his first start back from Dubai after an excellent second in the Dubai World Cup.

The first start back after Dubai excuse is standard, although this rule does not apply to all horses. Each horse that makes the trip is unique. Some of them find their best form right away upon return to this soil.

As for the main reason Hot Rod Charlie lost, for some reason, Mike Smith chose not to use the crop on Hot Rod Charlie, while Mind Control had the benefit of John Velazquez making better use of the crop in the stretch. In fact, the first replay view in the video does not make it clear whether Smith had a crop.

[classhandicapper]

IMO Pratt would have won that race. Great ride by Velasquez seizing control early and finishing much stronger. I wonder if Mind Control is one of those horses that just doesn’t like CD? He hasn’t done his best running there.

[classhandicapper]

IMO Pratt would have won that race. Great ride by Velasquez seizing control early and finishing much stronger. I wonder if Mind Control is one of those horses that just doesn’t like CD? He hasn’t done his best running there.

Prat

[Maximillion]

I think you have to just give Mind Control some credit.Hes not a superstar and maybe not fast enough to lead a top group around 1 turn but he tries hard every time.

[classhandicapper]

I think you have to just give Mind Control some credit.Hes not a superstar and maybe not fast enough to lead a top group around 1 turn but he tries hard every time.

Absolutely. It was one the best races of his career, if not the best.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

I think you have to just give Mind Control some credit.Hes not a superstar and maybe not fast enough to lead a top group around 1 turn but he tries hard every time.

Mind Control is a really nice horse, but HRC is supposedly a serious BC Classic contender.

It was a 5 horse field. HRC has to win that race regardless of any circumstances.

[Maximillion]

Maybe the (real) optimistic way of looking at Mind Control is Black Tie Affair.

He does have a very similar profile,you at least have to give him that.Unlikely but I wouldnt call it impossible.

[PhantomOnTour]

Mind Control has won a Graded Stakes race as a 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6yr old

[GMB@BP]

Someone made a good point on Twitter, before the race that when a horses main rider doesn't show up to ride a 2/5 fav, a horse supposedly targeted for the BC Classic, its generally not a good sign.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Mind Control has won a Graded Stakes race as a 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6yr old

MC is a great horse. Anybody would love to own him.

HRC is on a different level though. HRC is one of the top 4 favorites to win this years BC Classic. He'd be 5/1 or so loading into the gate while MC would be 40/1 in the same field.

I'm not knocking Mind Control at all, he is a fantastic horse. HRC is simply supposed to be better.

[the little guy]

MC is a great horse. Anybody would love to own him.

HRC is on a different level though. HRC is one of the top 4 favorites to win this years BC Classic. He'd be 5/1 or so loading into the gate while MC would be 40/1 in the same field.

I'm not knocking Mind Control at all, he is a fantastic horse. HRC is simply supposed to be better.

He's not a great horse. He's a terrific horse for sure....but not close to great.

Hot Rod Charlie isn't great either.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

He's not a great horse. He's a terrific horse for sure....but not close to great.

Hot Rod Charlie isn't great either.

Well, I think we all found that out yesterday.

[GMB@BP]

He's not a great horse. He's a terrific horse for sure....but not close to great.

Hot Rod Charlie isn't great either.

I used to use the term great a lot back in the day, too much, but compared to these horses I now feel justified.

[Maximillion]

To me the most interesting thing about Mind Control would be if he remains at 2 turns.

[the little guy]

Well, I think we all found that out yesterday.

No, we found it out every time they have run. Nothing about them displays greatness.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

No, we found it out every time they have run. Nothing about them displays greatness.

Only thing I've learned is that our superlatives are vastly different.

You set a much higher standard.

I need to be more careful in my use of terms, and should not lightly present horses as 'great' till just due.

[MJC922]

Exciting stretch battle. I didn't bet on the race but I was rooting for Mind Control to pull another battle back like the Parx mile. As for betting, 2-1 left zero room for error so I wouldn't have wanted much of that anyway.

Digging into the post-race details Mind Control did get six pounds, in fact all of the Lasix horses ran at 118. To me that (6) was the difference. It would be nice to see some incentives to run without Lasix or maybe force then to run at equal top weight if opting in. I thought HRC may have gone to the well one too many times last season but in retrospect he was running without Lasix which I've long suspected allows for a more sustained schedule.

I'd have kept him away a bit longer but I understand they have a roadmap and that's the problem with chasing Dubai.

[classhandicapper]

IMO, greatness is never defined by a single race. Good horses can run “great looking” races if they catch the right surface for them, find the right field, or get the right race development and trip. Sometimes these things are too subtle to measure. Great horses win when the conditions (both the obvious and subtle) are against them and it requires the deepest of reserves and determination to get the job done against other very good horses.

The figures may look the same, but there are huge differences in the horses.

You see greatness. When you find yourself saying “I can’t believe this horse won against that pace, against that bias, with that start, despite that repeated trouble etc… over and over and the wins keep piling up against Grade 1 competition, imo that’s when you know you are watching a great horse. It’s that extra bit of reserve energy and determination to overcome and still put up the number that separates them.

[Tom]

Huge difference.
HRC 2nd 3 times in a row, twice at horrendously low odds.

[Robert Fischer]

IMO, greatness is never defined by a single race. Good horses can run “great looking” races if they catch the right surface for them, find the right field, or get the right race development and trip. Sometimes these things are too subtle to measure. Great horses win when the conditions (both the obvious and subtle) are against them and it requires the deepest of reserves and determination to get the job done against other very good horses.

The figures may look the same, but there are huge differences in the horses.

You see greatness. When you find yourself saying “I can’t believe this horse won against that pace, against that bias, with that start, despite that repeated trouble etc… over and over and the wins keep piling up against Grade 1 competition, imo that’s when you know you are watching a great horse. It’s that extra bit of reserve energy and determination to overcome and still put up the number that separates them.

His 5M in earnings is great

His Belmont was impressive and promising.

I really wanted his Pennsylvania Derby to be a defining moment, and the speed figures were big numbers.

Didn't use him at all in the Classic, but I could have been wrong and lucky.

Dubai was a good placing and earning, but didn't do any big running.

[GMB@BP]

Huge difference.
HRC 2nd 3 times in a row, twice at horrendously low odds.

not only that i think you have to be pretty forgiving looking for excuses.

[Spalding No!]

Hot Rod Charlie is usually a bit sharper 2nd time off a freshening (when he can get one). Won the LA Derby and Meydan race 2nd time after a few weeks off.

He should still be capable of dealing with Mandaloun, Proxy, Express Train, and Stilleto Boy going forward.

No form to go off of, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was also competitive against There Goes Harvard, Dynamic One, Happy Saver, and First Captain.

Fortunately we have Life is Good, Olympiad, Flightline, and Country Grammer...which is like being thankful for having The Wicked North, Master Command, Mazel Trick, and Another Review as your top older horses.

[biggestal99]

Absolutely. It was one the best races of his career, if not the best.

104 BEYER (new top)

Allan

[Maximillion]

104 BEYER (new top)

Allan

Same as the Parx race.My opinion is he can do a little better than that.I know the competition wasnt that great in there except for Silver State,but still not that easy to roll up on that track first time and do something he had not been doing.

If thats his limit as a veteran its not good enough for the top....but this is a new path for him if he stays routing.His gameness certainly cannot be questioned.

[burnsy]

Huge difference.
HRC 2nd 3 times in a row, twice at horrendously low odds.

Yeah. And if you bet and care about winning. That’s all that matters really. The “whose great” talk is kind of ridiculous. As if either of these horses are close. Both horses are “good “ but their form has hot, tepid and cold all over the place. Cmon are people really this bored? How does the word “great” even enter this thread?
:pound: