When does this fiscal waste end?

[Secretariat]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&ncid=584&e=3&u=/nm/20041231/pl_nm/arms_usa_missile_dc

[Buckeye]

Nice picture!

Thanks.

[sq764]

Sec, if you don't like the way it's being run, then vote your own guy in there...

Oh wait, sorry, you tried that :cool:

[46zilzal]

Sec, if you don't like the way it's being run, then vote your own guy in there...

Oh wait, sorry, you tried that :cool:

here's some other good comments from this source:
You're a spineless coward, at least come to terms with it.
Don't have much time to worry about coward losers like yourself..
Your posts are a joke and you cannot be taken seriously. (had to change the spelling of that one)
Don't have much time to worry about coward losers like yourself..
Stay in your dungeon rolling virtual craps, that is where you can do the world most good.

Likes name calling doesn't he???

[sq764]

They're all true, can y ou blame me?

[Tom]

Hey Sec,
You know how many times the Wright Brothers crashed befreo they flew?
How many cars never worked until they did?
How many space shots ended in fireballs before they didn't?
You give up too easily. Everthing faisl in the begining.
Case in point, the last two dems that ran for president failed. Are you questioning when this will stop? :D :D :D :kiss:

[JustRalph]

Great points Tom

[toetoe]

sq,
did you lose another coward? I guess we'll have to organize a search party. hmmph.

[Secretariat]

Hey Sec,
You know how many times the Wright Brothers crashed befreo they flew?
How many cars never worked until they did?
How many space shots ended in fireballs before they didn't?
You give up too easily. Everthing faisl in the begining.
Case in point, the last two dems that ran for president failed. Are you questioning when this will stop? :D :D :D :kiss:


All of those cost peanuts compared to this, and all were about the advancement of science.

You also forgot to mention all those fiscal benefits of the supercollider.

And SQ, I'm talking about fiscal waste. You manage to turn any post into something about party.

When we're cutting VA Hospitals, and saying we can't afford Social Security, and when the Pentagon is going to cut the budget of the Navy, and our deifcit explodes, this Cold War Reagan dream is and has been a complete waste of taxpayer money. Add to that the largest danger of a nuclear attack in the US is via unprotected ports, or if you choose to do any research on this, you'd realize this whole thing is absurd and a totoal waste of taxpayer dollars. Defense contractors like Lockheed Martin love it though.

[46zilzal]

Defense contractors like Lockheed Martin love it though.

and don't forget who sits on the BOARD of that company....MRS. CHENEY!!

[Buckeye]

How about some more picture links please?

[Secretariat]

My God they spent more on this than the tsunami, and got nothing back for it.

I've never seen an adminstration throw away money like this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fbi13jan13,0,4698242,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[JustRalph]

My God they spent more on this than the tsunami, and got nothing back for it.

I've never seen an adminstration throw away money like this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fbi13jan13,0,4698242,print.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Take a look at this guy and his "Great Society" programs. that might refresh your memory.

http://www.floridatoday.com/columbia/futurespace/presidents/johnson.jpg

[ljb]

Sec,
This is not fiscal waste. Many of Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Condi's buddies stand to make a tidy sum of money from this program. Remember Condi was prepared to make a speech on this boondogle on 9/11. During these trying times we should not be so selfish as to concern ourselves with such mundane items as Social Security, environmental protection and college educations for our youth. We must put our emphasis on the Industrial/Military complex. How else do you expect those titans of industry to fatten their wallets? Also, Osama and his buddies like it when we waste money on these items, it lessens the amount we can spend on realistic weapons/programs against terroists. :rolleyes:

[sq764]

You're right LJB... We should follow the SS plan implemented under Clinton's reign, which was, um, damn why can't I remember?

[ljb]

sq,
Is that all you know how to do? Blame Clinton :rolleyes:

[sq764]

I was going to ask you the same about Bush ;)

[boxcar]

Tom wrote:

Hey Sec,
You know how many times the Wright Brothers crashed befreo they flew?
How many cars never worked until they did?
How many space shots ended in fireballs before they didn't?
You give up too easily. Everthing faisl in the begining.
Case in point, the last two dems that ran for president failed. Are you questioning when this will stop? :D :D :D :kiss:

ROFL! :D :D

Too funny! Maybe someone will get the idea to open up a museum devoted entirely to Failed Demo[n]cratic Nominees.

Boxcar

[Lefty]

With more of the world becoming nuclear every day this is a very necessary approach. Maybe your grandkids will live to thank Bush for "staying the course" on this one.

[46zilzal]

This is not fiscal waste. Many of Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Condi's buddies stand to make a tidy sum of money from this program.

Yes POOR old Brown Kellogg Root, Bectel, And Cheney's wife's company LOCKHEED need ALL the help the taxpayer can muster. Then there were the ones that got away (Enron) but I forgot THEY were big campaign contributors to the TURNIP!

[46zilzal]

Maybe your grandkids will live to thank Bush for "staying the course" on this one.

History will put this furitcake in the bottom drawer of the dustbin where he so reichly deserves to be FORGOTTEN...Well Bad examples need to remembered too.

[boxcar]

46zilzal wrote:

History will put this furitcake in the bottom drawer of the dustbin where he so reichly deserves to be FORGOTTEN...Well Bad examples need to remembered too.

Maybe so. But remember this: History (and all those Red States, of course) has put The Has Been,Self-Made Loser Kerry there already.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Case in point, the last two dems that ran for president failed. Are you questioning when this will stop Roxcar
Could just as easily quote the SIX Republicans who lost in a row and would be JUST as reolevant

[sq764]

Well if Bush is the worst prez in your opinion, what does that make of the guy who lost him??

[46zilzal]

Who lost him???? His brother? his dad?

And yes without a doubt he ranks BELOW Tricky Dick, Warren G. Harding (who had the good sense to die on the presidential yacht in Canada before returning to get impeached), "Cool" Calvin Coolidge, Herbert (trickle down ) Hoover and good old Harrison who caught a cold on his inauguration day and died a month later.

[Secretariat]

Take a look at this guy and his "Great Society" programs. that might refresh your memory.

http://www.floridatoday.com/columbia/futurespace/presidents/johnson.jpg

At least people GOT something out of those Great Society programs. Ask any senior if he'd enjoy giving up his Medicare. I hated Johnson because of Nam, but he was a Texas Southerner who had the courage to push civil rights, Medicare and welfare programs that helped the poor. This Texas Southerner beleives in slashing Medicare and Medicaid, refuses to even meet with civil rights groups, BUT has created the largest corporate welfare program the world has ever seen.

The two programs I posted were Star Wars which can't even hit one target in a test much less a Cold War invasion. Billions of dollars wasted. Now a half a million wasted on an FBI computer system with NOTHING to show for it. NOTHING. The head of the FBI stated directly to the 911 commission he thinks all the kinks are worked. He should be fired immediately!

I'm sicking of worrying about overpaying a welfare mother with 5 kids making less than the poverty level, compared to this horrific million and billion dollar waste under this adminstration.

[sq764]

Who lost him???? His brother? his dad?

And yes without a doubt he ranks BELOW Tricky Dick, Warren G. Harding (who had the good sense to die on the presidential yacht in Canada before returning to get impeached), "Cool" Calvin Coolidge, Herbert (trickle down ) Hoover and good old Harrison who caught a cold on his inauguration day and died a month later.
Didn't think you would answer that... how sad..

[sq764]

I'm sicking of worrying about overpaying a welfare mother with 5 kids making less than the poverty level, compared to this horrific million and billion dollar waste under this adminstration.
Then don't.. Either move to France and take LJB, Equiqueer and mr zilzal with you, or put some effort into nomintaing a bright, encouraging Dem candidate.. Otherwise, if you don't like the way it's going, take some responsibility for putting a weak stiff up against Bush..

[Lefty]

Sec, i'm one Senior who wishes Medicare had remained just a bad idea and something sane like medical savings accts had been substituted.

[Secretariat]

Sec, i'm one Senior who wishes Medicare had remained just a bad idea and something sane like medical savings accts had been substituted.

Lefty, if you wre relying on medical savings accounts, you'd be dead by now. I had one as a consultant and they are a pain. You have to put your own money up front into the savings account before you can use it. It's very bureaucratic. So if you don't have anything in it and you get sick, tough luck. With Medicare you've at least got a chance. And Med Savings Accounts don't even come close to addressing catastrophic care. Think you can save up for a bout with cancer on Social Security. Think again Lefty.

[Tom]

With more of the world becoming nuclear every day this is a very necessary approach. Maybe your grandkids will live to thank Bush for "staying the course" on this one.

Maybe not. I think this guy is against the war because the war is against HIM.

[Tom]

Who lost him???? His brother? his dad?

And yes without a doubt he ranks BELOW Tricky Dick, Warren G. Harding (who had the good sense to die on the presidential yacht in Canada before returning to get impeached), "Cool" Calvin Coolidge, Herbert (trickle down ) Hoover and good old Harrison who caught a cold on his inauguration day and died a month later.

And you have the gall to put down some of SQ's comments?
Good sense to DIE in Canada, Died a month later?
Man, you are serioulsy one sick individual. I would tell you to seek help, but you aren't worth the bother. Never though we would get one that would make AMAZIN look respectable.

[boxcar]

46zilzal wrote:

46er, methinks you're playing host to far too many parasites. It's evident they've eaten into your grey matter. The quote below is not mine:

Originally Posted by boxcar
Case in point, the last two dems that ran for president failed. Are you questioning when this will stop Roxcar

Where did you pull the above quote out of -- your nether regions?

Could just as easily quote the SIX Republicans who lost in a row and would be JUST as reolevant

And and what period of time was this, and who were the six Repubs?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

miscounted FIVE actually: Hoover, Landon, Wilke, Dewey times two

[boxcar]

46zilzal wrote:

miscounted FIVE actually: Hoover, Landon, Wilke, Dewey times two

In your case, I can see how this could easily happen. Once you get beyond the fingers on your hand, any 'ol count could happen.

But you still didn't answer my question as to what period this took place. And, specifically, who where the presidents who beat these Repubs?

Also, you list Hoover above. Was this good ol' Herb, or some other Hoover?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

46zilzal wrote:
But you still didn't answer my question as to what period this took place. And, specifically, who where the presidents who beat these Repubs?
Boxcar

intuitively obvious to even the most CASUAL observer.

[sq764]

miscounted FIVE actually: Hoover, Landon, Wilke, Dewey times two

continuing your losers in a row - Gore, Kerry, <fill in your Dem choice here>

[JustRalph]

continuing your losers in a row - Gore, Kerry, <fill in your Dem choice here>

continuing your losers in a row - Gore, Kerry,Hillary

[JustRalph]

returning to Wasteful Spending and reforms..........

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17328

[Tom]

Wilke?
Wow! You gotta go waaaaaaaaaay back to make a point.

[Lefty]

sec, if I had to rely on medical savings accts i'd be dead? Surely you kid? If Johnson had given us msa's instead of straight Medicare when I was in my 20's, how much do you think i'd have in my msa? Bet it'd take care of more medical than medicare and be cheaper cause it brings in the free mkt, allowing us to doctor shop for the best deal.

[Secretariat]

sec, if I had to rely on medical savings accts i'd be dead? Surely you kid? If Johnson had given us msa's instead of straight Medicare when I was in my 20's, how much do you think i'd have in my msa? Bet it'd take care of more medical than medicare and be cheaper cause it brings in the free mkt, allowing us to doctor shop for the best deal.

I don't kid Lefty. Ever had an MSA Lefty? I have. I know. Don't tell me MSA's are better than Medicare. You have no idea. Your MSA has no provision on how to deal with catastrophic illness. You couldn't even begin to save enough money in an MSA to address leukemia, a major heart attack, AIDs, or tuberculosis. You're living in a fantasy whrere you can save up enough to pay for regular doctor visits. Yuo have no idea what you're talking about.

[Lefty]

sec, you're telling me that an msa accruing over 40+ yrs is still worse than medicare? Give me a brk. Medicare is the worst social prgm ever conceived.

[Secretariat]

sec, you're telling me that an msa accruing over 40+ yrs is still worse than medicare? Give me a brk. Medicare is the worst social prgm ever conceived.

I can guarantee that a MSA accruing over 40+ yrs is worse than Medicare. Even if you deposited 3000 of your money EVERY year for 40 years WITHOUT ever using those funds for doctors appointments and NEVER getting sick, you'd only have 120,000 saved for medical expenses. This is a pittance compared what Medicare will cover due to catastrophic illness.

I can tell you that not EVERYONE can equally contribute 3000 a year. Again MA's punish the poor earner toward health care whereas Medicare protects everyone regardless of income equally. That is fundamental human value. Richer people can save more. Medicare insures that health care for the elderly is not class conscious.

I can tell you that people do sick and they need to use that money along the way. You've no concept of what an MSA even is.

[Lefty]

sec, you forgot the interest. Look how much Medicare has cost. I don't think you have any idea how bad it is, or maybe you sdon't care since it was foisted upon us by the Dems.

[Secretariat]

sec, you forgot the interest. Look how much Medicare has cost. I don't think you have any idea how bad it is, or maybe you sdon't care since it was foisted upon us by the Dems.

Feel free to add in the interest. It doesn't even come close to what Medicare provides, and in lieu of spiraling medical costs it is onyl going to get worse. MSA's are not the solution for the reason outlined in my previous post.

As to being foisted by Dem's, Nixon, Reagan, Ford, and Bush Sr. chose to do nothing about it, but embraced Medicare. Medicare is not just a Repub or Dem issue. It's about providing minimal health care coverage to seniors of either party in the twilight of their life. It doesn't care what party you are or how rich you are? That's pretty amazing.

[Lefty]

sec, you fail to realize that if Johnson had embraced MSA's the medical costs wouldn't have spiraled out of control. The free mkt and no way for fraud to creep in would just about have guaranteed that. The free mkst works, govt control always justs leads to fraud and out of control spirals. I know i'll never convince a lib that govt can't solve everything, but I try, I try.

[ljb]

Lefty,
You fail to see there is no free market no matter what. A simple example is the recent medicare bill passed by the republicans. We cannot purchase lower priced medications in Canada. You see the government is/will be involved in all aspects of our lives. The difference being the republicans tend to slant the laws favoring the rich folks and/or corporate interests at the expense of the lower class folks. In today's Orlando paper there is a story about Jeb Bush trying to get tax cuts for corporations and wealthy folks. This will result in lowering medicare benefits for the poor, the elderly and the disabled. I told the seniors sitting around the table this morning that I think it is only right that I should pay more for my medicine so Jeb and his associates would have enough money to buy gas for their yachts. Don't you agree? ;)

[sq764]

Lefty,
You fail to see there is no free market no matter what. A simple example is the recent medicare bill passed by the republicans. We cannot purchase lower priced medications in Canada. You see the government is/will be involved in all aspects of our lives. The difference being the republicans tend to slant the laws favoring the rich folks and/or corporate interests at the expense of the lower class folks. In today's Orlando paper there is a story about Jeb Bush trying to get tax cuts for corporations and wealthy folks. This will result in lowering medicare benefits for the poor, the elderly and the disabled. I told the seniors sitting around the table this morning that I think it is only right that I should pay more for my medicine so Jeb and his associates would have enough money to buy gas for their yachts. Don't you agree? ;)
Maybe I was misreading before, but didn't Canada decide not to sell medications to Americans?

[Secretariat]

Maybe I was misreading before, but didn't Canada decide not to sell medications to Americans?

THat's incorrect. A few states have already decided to buy from Canada. Bush said during the debates he'd be looking into it in December and make a decision. Guess we know what that decision is. Nothing again.

[Lefty]

There is a free mkt although you libs fail to recognize it. If we had had MSA's 40 yrs ago, people wouldn'tve used it for every sniveling excuse to run to a dr like they use insurance now. They would have pd their own docs for the small stuff and for the most serious stuff they wouldv'e shopped for the best price and competition wouldve heldf medical prices in check and then there would be no need to run to Canada for medicine or anything else.
BTW, if people alreasdy shopping in Canada why do you need Bush to do anything? Ship there at your own risk.
I'd rather have that $150,000 or so sitting right now in my MSA than be paying $70 or so every month to the flawed Medicare Insurance like i'm doing.

[ljb]

Lefty,
The only true free market in our economy is the underground market. This market is used by drug dealers, flea markets yard sales etc. The rest of our economy has various government restrictions and rules. Age limits on purchases and sales taxes come to mind. Now please admit we do not have a free market in our normal daily comerce.

[Lefty]

lbj, reread the part about msa's and the free mkt. Then if you get my point(at last)you'll understand why Medicare is a bad idea.

[Secretariat]

There is a free mkt although you libs fail to recognize it. If we had had MSA's 40 yrs ago, people wouldn'tve used it for every sniveling excuse to run to a dr like they use insurance now. They would have pd their own docs for the small stuff and for the most serious stuff they wouldv'e shopped for the best price and competition wouldve heldf medical prices in check and then there would be no need to run to Canada for medicine or anything else.
BTW, if people alreasdy shopping in Canada why do you need Bush to do anything? Ship there at your own risk.
I'd rather have that $150,000 or so sitting right now in my MSA than be paying $70 or so every month to the flawed Medicare Insurance like i'm doing.

Lefty,

MSA's have been here for self employed consultants for a long time. I used one as a tax break, but it was a pain, and only really addressed regular doctor visits, not emergencies. That's what people are mostly concerned with.

I'd be happy to let people opt out of Medicare for MSA's providing they do not get rid of Medicare. I'll chose Medicare, you can choose MSA's. You better keep Medicaid around though, cause you'll need it.

[ljb]

Lefty,
You are confusing me. Are you saying we would have entrusted our serious health care problems to the lowest bidder under what you call msa?

[Tom]

"Lefty,
You are confusing me. "


That is logic he is using. Ergo the confusion.
:D

[Lefty]

sec, since MSA's weren't the thrust at the gitgo instead of medicare, they can now only help the young. Us seniors, unfortuately are now stuck with SS and medicare but the young can enjoy the fruits of partial privatization of SS and MSA's. Ah, to be young now.

[Lefty]

lbj, I wouldn't be confusing you if you fully understood the concept of capitalism and the free mkt.

[Equineer]

Lefty,

The politicians have some bitter "medicine" in mind for you.Washington Post
Monday, January 17, 2005; Page A02

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) said yesterday that Americans might need to "take some medicine" to fix Social Security, and said he would consider a plan being floated by the White House that would reduce scheduled benefits.The proposed change is to tie indexing for annual benefit adjustments to wages rather than inflation.

Since wage growth has lagged behind inflation, and is projected to lag further as more outsourcing and illegal workers are embraced by a Congressional majority that owes its allegiance to special interests, the purchasing power of Social Security recipients will decline with each passing year.

The shame is that both political parties have sold their souls to special interests that don't give a damn about you.

[ljb]

Special to SO. Calfan,
I posted a question and got disparaging remarks from both Tom and Lefty. Am I now allowed to reply in kind?

[toetoe]

Ljb,
I'm not sure you're up to it. None can disparage like those two.

[Tom]

Special to SO. Calfan,
I posted a question and got disparaging remarks from both Tom and Lefty. Am I now allowed to reply in kind?
Yes, but only if you deliver your reply in person, at the Black Tie and Boots ball tonight. You did get invited, dind't you?

[Lefty]

lbj, what disparaging remarks? I said you don't understand and i'm unanimous in that. If you want to disparage me, fire away. I give you logic and I get nothing but tomfoolery from you.
Eq, scheduled benefits would be reduced anyway. There's a law that says if SS falls below a certain point benefits have to be cut. So let's get something done instead of handwringing.

[Secretariat]

lbj, what disparaging remarks? I said you don't understand and i'm unanimous in that. If you want to disparage me, fire away. I give you logic and I get nothing but tomfoolery from you.
Eq, scheduled benefits would be reduced anyway. There's a law that says if SS falls below a certain point benefits have to be cut. So let's get something done instead of handwringing.

Can we start with cutting your benefits?

[Lefty]

sec, stupd question. I don't blve Bush has any notion to cut benefits of anyone now on SS, instead he's trying to preserve them. Reread my last post.
My benefits and everyone's benefits suffer because of the flawed medicare plan. Instead of having a couple hundred thou to work with (as per an MSA that could have started 40+ yrs ago)I have to pay.

[Equineer]

sec, stupd question. I don't blve Bush has any notion to cut benefits of anyone now on SS, instead he's trying to preserve them. Reread my last post.
My benefits and everyone's benefits suffer because of the flawed medicare plan. Instead of having a couple hundred thou to work with (as per an MSA that could have started 40+ yrs ago)I have to pay.You still don't get it? Reread my last post. The White House began floating the proposal to diminish your benefits several weeks ago. Senator Frist is not the only member of Congress who has revealed Bush's re-indexing scheme to the Washington press...

So you don't hold Bush accountable for his campaign promise that he would not cut benefits for existing recipients?

In countless campaign stops, he promised seniors already on Social Security that he would not tamper with their existing statutory benefits.

Those seniors lived up to their end of the bargain during their working lives. Do you think they deserve to be victimized by Bush's duplicity?

[Lefty]

EQ, why should I hold him accountable for something that hasn't happened?
Don't get your knickers in a twist over conjecture.

[Tom]

Yeah, like the draft you keep saying he is going to institute.
Come back and whine when something happens. Unitl then, you are offering nothing but your fears and insecurites. Pull that wedgie out and loosen up.

[JustRalph]

Do you think they deserve to be victimized by Bush's duplicity?

Calling the Kettle Black Alert! Yahoo!!!!! Kettle Black Alert! (think daffy duck here) Kettle Black alert!!