Who pays the Jockeys?

[rvdude]

How are the Jockey's paid? By the track? A percentage of the win? Just wondering....

[JackS]

10% of the purse value according to their finish position of which the jock is responsible for paying his/her agent which I assume is a non-standard contract depending on the value of the agent.

[JackS]

BTW- I have heard that sometimes a trainer will give a jockey a $100 win ticket on the horse he's riding. I guess this is legal but it sure would be nice to know before the race begins. This could be the ultimate angle/spotplay

[rvdude]

This is very interesting JackS.
So how much control does the Jockey have over the horse's speed other than bringing out the whip?

[LARRY GEORGE]

THE PURSE OF THE RACE IS PAID OUT TO THE FIRST FIVE HORSES
THE JOCKEY RECEIVES 10% OF THAT. ALSO THE JOCKEY GET A MOUNTING FEE EVEN IF THE HORSE FINISHES DEAD LAST.
THE JOCKEYS AGENT RECEIVES ABOUT 20% OF THE JOCKEYS
WINNINGS NOT BAD IF YOU ARE A AGENT FOR A BIG NAME JOCK.

[JackS]

Nothing's fool proof. I'd suspect that many a jock has had to throw away his loosing ticket after the race.
You also have to ask yourself if this is a common routine or is it something that only happens occassionly.
If it's common, how many other jockeys in the same race also have a winning ticket in their pocket?
The implicaton to the jock by the trainer with this $ gesture would be that he expected a top ride, that the horse is capable and ready to win.

[Observer]

Originally posted by LARRY GEORGE
THE PURSE OF THE RACE IS PAID OUT TO THE FIRST FIVE HORSES...

Some tracks pay all the way down to last place.

[gillenr]

I'm not sure the jocks get a piece of minor placings, but they do get a fee per mount. I'm emailing friends who own horses to find out.

[Brian Flewwelling]

I believe the following is pretty standard Jockey Pay:

10% of Win Purse
5% of Place or Show

or a 'loser - fee' of somewhere near $50, depending on the track.

I also understand that the fees are paid to the jockies by the track on a weekly basis. The money comes from the Owners fund held by the track. Payment is made only after all test results are in.

Fleww

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Brian Flewwelling
I believe the following is pretty standard Jockey Pay:

10% of Win Purse
5% of Place or Show

or a 'loser - fee' of somewhere near $50, depending on the track.

I also understand that the fees are paid to the jockies by the track on a weekly basis. The money comes from the Owners fund held by the track. Payment is made only after all test results are in.

Fleww

This is the correct answer, As for a trainer giving a jock a $100 ticket?..Thats a lot of money to give, Would make me think the jock was a cheat!

[saratoga guy]

This is from a recent article by Jennie Rees in the Louisville Courier Journal:

Jockeys

Traditionally get 10percent of the purse earnings of their winning mounts and 5percent for mounts finishing second or third. For finishes of fourth or below, there is a set fee based on a sliding scale depending on the purse of each race. At Churchill Downs, the minimum fee is $50, rising to $100 for races worth $100,000 or more.

Out of their purse commissions and fees, jockeys pay the agents who arrange their mounts between 25 and 30 percent and the valets that saddle their horses and clean their gear between 2 percent and 10 percent. In addition, those who are members of the Jockeys' Guild, the national body that represents riders, pay either $3 or $10 per mount to that organization, the higher amount covering family health insurance that does not include on-track accidents.

Trainers

Usually get 10percent for a top-three finish and sometimes a fourth. They get no purse money if the horse finishes fifth or worse. They do receive training fees that can range from $50-$100 per day for each horse, but out of that they must pay their help, including worker's compensation, and the horses' feed, bedding and tack (saddles, bridles, etc.).

Owners

Get the rest of any purse money their horses make, which includes fourth-place finishes, often fifth-place and sometimes lower. Besides the purchase price of the horse, owners pay daily training fees and veterinarian, blacksmith and transportation costs. Most owners lose money.

— Jennie Rees

[Zaf]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
This is the correct answer, As for a trainer giving a jock a $100 ticket?..Thats a lot of money to give, Would make me think the jock was a cheat!

Here is a better way to cheat. It uses he new wager that will be available at Delaware Park. The one where you get the rest of the field against the favorite. You give the Jockey a $500 ticket on the rest of the field. The Jockey does just enough to earn second (he cashes his ticket, and collects the money for finishing second). The Trainer & Connections pound the rest of the field bet. Everybody wins :eek:

ZAFONIC

[kenwoodallpromos]

There may be side deals where jockes have to work or gallop horses if they want paying rides. I understand the deals vary, as jockeys are independent.
Zafonic- that sounds too easy! I will be keepibg stats on the losing favorite connections if it seems suspicious. Maybe names will pop out.

[BillW]

Originally posted by zafonic
Here is a better way to cheat. It uses he new wager that will be available at Delaware Park. The one where you get the rest of the field against the favorite. You give the Jockey a $500 ticket on the rest of the field. The Jockey does just enough to earn second (he cashes his ticket, and collects the money for finishing second). The Trainer & Connections pound the rest of the field bet. Everybody wins :eek:

ZAFONIC

I think this is against the rules in most jurisdictions i.e. a jock caught with a ticket against hit mount is like a trainer getting caught with a needle. Of course like most things, this is hard to police.

Bill

[gillenr]

1st place OWNER gets 60% of purse. JOCKEY gets 10% of 60%
2nd place OWNER gets 20% of purse JOCKEY gets 5% of 20%
3rd place OWNER gets 11% of purse JOCKEY gets 5% of 11%
4th & 5th OWNER gets 0 and JOCKEY gets $65. a ride
other spots JOCKEY gets $50 to $55. per ride

[ratpack]

Originally posted by BillW
I think this is against the rules in most jurisdictions i.e. a jock caught with a ticket against hit mount is like a trainer getting caught with a needle. Of course like most things, this is hard to police.

Bill

This brings up another point about Trainers. Can they bet Serial bets that included other horses than theirs.

[JackS]

I think technically it's against the rules for trainers or anyone else associated with horses and horse racing to make any kind of wager at any track or OTB.
It's one of those rules thats the equivalent of speeding 5mph over the speed limit and is seldom if ever enforced.
Common knowledge tells us that trainers and everyone associated with them bet routinley.
Here's a question..... Has anyone ever noticed a trainer standing in line or at a machine making a bet? Maybe they do and if not, the bet is probably sent in and placed by an obscure runner.

[ratpack]

Originally posted by JackS
I think technically it's against the rules for trainers or anyone else associated with horses and horse racing to make any kind of wager at any track or OTB.
It's one of those rules thats the equivalent of speeding 5mph over the speed limit and is seldom if ever enforced.
Common knowledge tells us that trainers and everyone associated with them bet routinley.
Here's a question..... Has anyone ever noticed a trainer standing in line or at a machine making a bet? Maybe they do and if not, the bet is probably sent in and placed by an obscure runner.

I see trainers betting all the time at Hol and Santa Anita

[JackS]

Ratpack- Thanks. I'm relagated to OTB and seldom ever get to visit a real track. I have noticed trainers and handlers making bets at dog racing though.
I could be mistaken and this practice could be /is perfectly legal.

[ratpack]

I know trainers can bet any race they want if they have no horse in that race and I know that they have to bet their own horse in a race if they bet that race.

My question to anyone who knows is that just a loop hole. So a trainers bets $2 to win on his horse and $500 to win on another horse, is that legal.

What about Exacta's suppose a trainers knows his horse is good but not good enough to beat the Fav. Can he bet a $98 exacta, the Fav to his horse and $2 exacta on his horse in the win spot.

What about Serial Bets can he but other horses in P3 or P6 other than his own?

[rvdude]

I'm not to worried about trainers placing bets, I'm sure their win/loss percentage would equal our own if of course eveything is on the up and up. My concern is focused more on the jockies. They're the ones in the driver's seat. Would a jocky let another jockey take the win if his buddy was having a bad week? Or just maybe trainer so and so is having a hard time paying the hay bill for his horses and needs a few wins to pay off the debt. I've watched too many races to see the horses come barreling down the strech all bunched up together then all of a sudden, one horse comes flying out of the pack to take the win. Just watch the Austrailian races. This happens all to frequently. Long shots, race after race after race. Come on you retired jocks, let us honest gamblers in on a few secrets. I'm sure you might have a story or two to pass along.

[mjdevita]

Originally posted by gillenr
1st place OWNER gets 60% of purse. JOCKEY gets 10% of 60%
2nd place OWNER gets 20% of purse JOCKEY gets 5% of 20%
3rd place OWNER gets 11% of purse JOCKEY gets 5% of 11%
4th & 5th OWNER gets 0 and JOCKEY gets $65. a ride
other spots JOCKEY gets $50 to $55. per ride

Your total for owner equals only 91% what about the other 9%....

CT in WV pays 60%, 20%, 10%, 5%, 3% and 2% to owners

[gillenr]

Since the jock doesn't get a piece of 4th & 5th place, it doesn't matter.

[RXB]

Who pays the jockeys?

The bettors do. I guess now, in a lot of places, the slot machine junkies also pay the jockeys. Bettors also pay the trainers, the owners, the breeders, the managers, and everybody else.

[mjdevita]

Originally posted by RXB
Who pays the jockeys?

The bettors do. I guess now, in a lot of places, the slot machine junkies also pay the jockeys. Bettors also pay the trainers, the owners, the breeders, the managers, and everybody else.

Yep, it is the bettors you pay the way....and yes the slots especially where they have kicked in well...is making a nice purse structure...look at West Virginia in Charles Town $5,000 claimers are racing for between $17,000 and $23,000 per race.

However, I feel the bettor should NOT be jealous of the owners, trainers or jocks.....but they do have the right to demand a good product and a fair chance.

Is Pedro Martinez really work 50 Million plus....Carl Parvano worth 40 million plus....is a yankee seat really worth $90 a game....but we pay our teachers, firemen and cops....absolutely nothing in comparasion to the entertainment industry.

America is a great country but something is out of whack ...somewhere....

Have a GREAT DAY!!

Mike

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ratpack
I know trainers can bet any race they want if they have no horse in that race and I know that they have to bet their own horse in a race if they bet that race.

My question to anyone who knows is that just a loop hole. So a trainers bets $2 to win on his horse and $500 to win on another horse, is that legal.

What about Exacta's suppose a trainers knows his horse is good but not good enough to beat the Fav. Can he bet a $98 exacta, the Fav to his horse and $2 exacta on his horse in the win spot.

What about Serial Bets can he but other horses in P3 or P6 other than his own? :)

You bring u a good point sir!!,Somewhere in the rules of racing it states a trainer may not bet any other horse in the race,Only his own horse on top, Yes its illegal as hell if you were to get caught betting on another horse to win if you are in the race.If I were a bettor and did see another trainer bet on another horse on top besides his own I would report him!, BUT, Then comes the question, Was the bet for him or someone else...

[Suff]

years ago... Jockeys only got paid for wins,,,, That was it,


A winnning Jock got a % of a winning purse. 2ND PLACE AND BEYAND ONLY GOT A FLAT FEE!!!!!! In 1988.. Nyra jocks went on strike to change all that. Now theY get 5% of 2nd and 3rd,


But They struck for that. Heres A little history with a few links. JOHN GIOVNIA , PETE BORNIOUS, JERRY BAILEY AND PAT DAY They decided that a FLAT fee for 2nd, 3rd ,,,4th et all was not enough,

so In 1988 they struck, They used to meet everyday at thE marriot hotel in NYC, Right acrosss from JFK airpoort. About 3 miles from the BIG A. WILLIE SHOEMAKER and Angel Codero. These 2 guys used to show up at the Hotel in the AM and Write PERSONAL checks,,, 2 grand,, 3 grand,,,4 grand,,, and say "MAKE SURE THESE GUYS CAN PAY THIER RENT AND BUY FOOD.
RIGHT OUT OF THIER POCKET.!!!!!

As racing in New York shifted from Belmont to Aqueduct, the most significant battle for the jockey fee increase was waged. Growing dissatisfaction with New York's reluctance to approve the increase resulted in the jockeys brandishing picket signs instead of whips for the beginning of the Aqueduct fall meeting of 1988. Most of the big name jockeys refused to ride until they were granted the new pay scale, which was already in place in most of the other states. The more successful jockeys were walking the picket line to improve the lot of those that were least successful in the riding colony. Initially, no one believed that the sentiment was legitimate, but when a strike fund was established and jockeys were donating out-of-town riding fees to their needy colleagues—it became clear that the jockeys were sincere. The strike came to a critical juncture on October 22 with the carding of the $500,000 inaugural running of the NYRA Mile. Laffit Pincay, Jr., based in California, shipped in to New York to ride prohibitive race-favorite, Forty Niner, for trainer, Woody Stephens. As the jockeys huddled in the jockeys' room before the races to discuss the situation, someone declared, "Well, what do we do?" As everyone's eyes turned to Pincay, he calmly proclaimed, "I'm going shopping!" As Laffit was walking the sidewalks of New York, Forty Niner waltzed in the NYRA Mile with a scab-jockey on his back.

The jockeys were resolute and they were rewarded for their unanimity. Since attendance and handle in New York decreased due to the lack of fan interest in betting on sub-par racing with second-class jockeys, NYRA eventually capitulated and granted an increase in the pay scale. Steve Crist wrote the following in the Thoroughbred Times,
They (the Jockeys' Guild) won an important legal opinion when the New York State Supreme Court, denying a bully boy motion by the New York Racing Association, said that the riders had a right to organize and picket. That decision, coupled with the emergence of strong organizers and negotiators, gave the jockeys their strongest organized labor position ever. Their Jockeys' Guild national director, John Giovanni, has brought that organization into the modern era of labor relations. The jockeys now also have a strong collective bargaining unit, the Jockeys' Organizing Committee, which includes skilled attorneys and lobbyists.
Within two days of the return of the regular jockeys, the betting handle was exceeding the previous year's daily totals.

As Bill Shoemaker planned a farewell tour for his retirement from riding, the Jockeys' Guild held an election in December 1989 to fill the unexpired term. Jerry Bailey was elected as the new president. Bailey had served as vice president of the Guild representing the eastern section. A native of Dallas, TX, Bailey began riding Quarter Horses in 1974 before he moved to the Midwest and then on to NY/FL circuit.