Nice Call Hollywood Management!!

[Tee]

Taking the races off the turf with 20 minutes to post for the 5th race - after the first leg of the pick six had been run.

[cj]

Was it even raining at the time? If not, what a bad call!

[BillW]

It was the jocks call. There was no rain - clear and dry. I heard they had a problem with the surface which was rated good the day before, but the grounds crew was working hard on the surface after each race on the turf to repair the damage (I was there).

Bill

[The_Knight_Sky]

The Hollywood Park turf crew in action yesterday:http://www.hoc-board.de/phpBB2/smilies/zwinker/zwinker.gif

http://www.unitedresponse.co.uk/public_html/pix/lawn_mowing.jpg
photo courtesy: unitedresponse.co.uk


But seriously folks -
The jockey colonies have way too much leverage
when it comes switching surfaces and race card cancellations.

While safety for the horses and riders is important,
repeated episodes of blatant disregard for the betting public continues
on a national level.

[Dancer's Image]

This is the third complaint I've heard about this situation, (both Las Vegas radio shows complained also), and I still don't get it! Sure there was a pick-6 carryover and and the bettors would like to know if the race is going to be run on the turf or the dirt, but what do you want Hollywood mangement to do? Whatever they do, whether they cancel all turf racing at 0700 or 1000 or 1230 or right before the race, they are not going to please everybody. Yesterday, they obviously thought that they could get the turf course safe and ready for racing by the 5th race. But they have to get it safe and ready to the jockeys mind also, and when the jockeys would not ride on the turf, what could Hollywood do other than cancel turf racing and run on the dirt?
What's the big deal anyway? In both cancelled turf races, the favorite won so the pick-6 bettors won with all the scratched horses anyway. It seems to me that some people, many people it seems, just like to complain. Jerry J was really incensed by this and promised to come on the Raceday LV show tomorrow to discuss this some more so maybe he will explain whay he is so outraged, but until he or anyone else does, I just don't get it.

[mikekk]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
What's the big deal anyway? In both cancelled turf races, the favorite won so the pick-6 bettors won with all the scratched horses anyway. It seems to me that some people, many people it seems, just like to complain. Jerry J was really incensed by this and promised to come on the Raceday LV show tomorrow to discuss this some more so maybe he will explain whay he is so outraged, but until he or anyone else does, I just don't get it.

Plus, it's a CD track. Let's save all our vitriol for when it happens ay an MEC location.

Mikekk

[the little guy]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
This is the third complaint I've heard about this situation, (both Las Vegas radio shows complained also), and I still don't get it! Sure there was a pick-6 carryover and and the bettors would like to know if the race is going to be run on the turf or the dirt, but what do you want Hollywood mangement to do? Whatever they do, whether they cancel all turf racing at 0700 or 1000 or 1230 or right before the race, they are not going to please everybody. Yesterday, they obviously thought that they could get the turf course safe and ready for racing by the 5th race. But they have to get it safe and ready to the jockeys mind also, and when the jockeys would not ride on the turf, what could Hollywood do other than cancel turf racing and run on the dirt?
What's the big deal anyway? In both cancelled turf races, the favorite won so the pick-6 bettors won with all the scratched horses anyway. It seems to me that some people, many people it seems, just like to complain. Jerry J was really incensed by this and promised to come on the Raceday LV show tomorrow to discuss this some more so maybe he will explain whay he is so outraged, but until he or anyone else does, I just don't get it. Your post shows a shocking disregard for horseplayers and a complete lack of understanding of Pick-6 players and their stategies. What happened at Hollywood yesterday ( I don't bet there ) was just another example of management allowing riders to have WAY too much say with an absolute disregard for what is in the best interests of the betting public, without whom there is NO racing. The jockeys complain because they're unappreciated yet they continually act with complete disdain for the horseplayers.

There is a solution, and NY is about to put it in play, if a race is taken off the turf after the Pick-6 betting, that race becomes an all race. That is the fairest thing for everyone. Saying, like you did, that the favorite won both off the turf races is essentially irrelevent, as while this time, in some ways, bettors weren't hurt, the result does in no way justify the decision. Also, those Pick-6 players, that put up their money have a right to have their best shot with their selections on the course they were betting for. What if you used two horses, and they both would have been around 8-1, didn't you earn the right to take your chance with them, instead of having the favorite, who after scratches was probably 30% of his win odds in the Pick-6?

The bottom line is that it seems like all race day decisions made at racetracks repeatedly screw the horseplayers. This isn't an isolated example, it's one of many, and we're sick of it. To suggest that you " don't get it " or wonder what " the big deal is " shows you aren't a horseplayer ( which is fine ) but you also have ZERO understanding of the plight of the horseplayer.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Taken off the turf in So Cal- How often does that happen?
I agree with ensuring the track safety and not messing up the track surface.
Some people think jocks should ALWAYS ride on ice and lots of slippery water at 40 MPH with smooth aluminum contacting the water, not just 99%+ of the time.
I'll bet a low % of betting public on this board would even want to WALK on very wet grass! LOL!

[socantra]

Jockeys' call, as it should be. We're risking a few bucks, they're risking their lives.

Mark it down as one of those factors beyond your control and move on.

socantra...

[the little guy]

Originally posted by socantra
Jockeys' call, as it should be. We're risking a few bucks, they're risking their lives.

Mark it down as one of those factors beyond your control and move on.

socantra... And who exactly is forcing them to " risk their lives"?

[socantra]

No one. That's why they moved the race off the turf.

socantra...

[Tom]

What was so different when they switched the race to dirt than an hour before? Bad timing by the jocks. They don't have a lot of creditbility when they do things like this. Was the last minute refusal a ploy to make sure replacement riders weren't called in?
Someone needs some lessons on running a race track.

[cj]

Tom hit the nail on the head. Its all about the timing! If the turf course was in poor condition when they cancelled, it was certainly in poor condition before the P6 betting closed, and even more certainly before Post for the 1st race. Its common sense to cancel early if there is going to be a question.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
Tom hit the nail on the head. Its all about the timing! If the turf course was in poor condition when they cancelled, it was certainly in poor condition before the P6 betting closed, and even more certainly before Post for the 1st race. Its common sense to cancel early if there is going to be a question.

I do agree with you CJ, If they (management) knew they were going to take the races off the turf before post time,Because of track conditions, You (The Bettor) should be informed in plenty of time so you may ajust your picks for the day.I myself as a trainer would be very upset if I had to wait with my horse and then find out it was taken off the turf.If the jocks knew beforehand, Its the head of the jocks guild at that track to inform management of whats going on.

[Tee]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
In both cancelled turf races, the favorite won so the pick-6 bettors won with all the scratched horses anyway. It seems to me that some people, many people it seems, just like to complain.

Do u know how much difference in wagered $$$$ determined the favorite in the 5th? I for one like my handicapping, wagering skills & a little luck to determine my fate, not someone placing a $2 win bet.

Sure the favorites won both races & to quote "So the pick-6 bettors won with all the sratched horses anyway." Yeah way more tickets were cashed than probably should have been thus diluting the payouts - that's just fan phucking-tastic!!!!!!!!

It was a bad call that led to many bettors money dangling by the betting public's decisions.

Hollywood Park got their takeout on a $1,269,925 pick 6 pool & I'm beginning to think that's all that really matters.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Tee
Hollywood Park got their takeout on a $1,269,925 pick 6 pool & I'm beginning to think that's all that really matters.

If you are track management..........that is all that matters

[Tee]

What was the turf course like on Friday afternoon?

Did that racing tear up the turf course to make it un-safe on Saturday?

More rain or were the sprinklers left on?:D :D

[so.cal.fan]

http://www.rogerstein.com/radio/archive.asp

They talk about it right away on today's archived show...Dec. 12

[BillW]

Originally posted by Tee
What was the turf course like on Friday afternoon?

Did that racing tear up the turf course to make it un-safe on Saturday?

More rain or were the sprinklers left on?:D :D

There was a lot of grounds crew activity repairing divots in the course after each race. Of course 10 guys with manual tools working for 15 mins is like going after an elephant with a bb-gun. I don't imagine they had much effect.

BTW the course was rated "good" and didn't look dry enough to be moved to fast anytime soon.


Bill

[Observer]

I was also suprised by the announcement with 20 minutes to go til the running of the 5th race .. that Race 5 & 9 were being taken off the turf .. which had been listed as good .. and with a bright sun shining down on the track.

However .. according to announcer Vic Stauffer .. after running on the turf for Race 3 (field of 5) .. the jockeys decided the course to be unsuitable .. so .. that puts the track in a tough spot.

These types of situations are always lousy .. from all aspects.

[Observer]

Just wanted to add ..

In the grand scheme of things .. there really isn't a whole lot of time between the finish of Race 3 .. and the running of Race 5 (or in this case 20 minutes to Race 5) .. especially not when a decision like this has to be made .. people need time to talk things out.

Again .. these kinds of situations are rough on everyone.

I'm still a fan of the "alternate " selection .. and would like to see that brought back.

[Zman179]

The alternate selection wouldn't have done any good in this case unless you had made your alternates SOLELY in the event of a surface transfer.

Doubtful that it would have done any good. Especially if the horse that you loved on turf has absolutely no shot whatsoever on the dirt...and it's still entered to run.

[Observer]

I think providing the option of selecting an alternate is a good idea. Obviously it's up to the player on whether to actually throw an alternate in .. and in which direction to go with that alternate choice. But having that option is nice.

And in this case .. yes .. many players would still probably have gotten hurt .. because if they ran the 3rd on turf on Saturday .. and ran two races Friday on the turf .. who would have thought Races 5 & 9 with the beautiful weather on Saturday would be in jeopardy of coming off .. so most probably would not have made an alternate if the choice was available .. and hardly any horses came out when the races were moved to dirt.

Basically my comment on the "alternate selection" was just a statement that I liked that idea .. not that it would have been the perfect solution in this case.

[Valuist]

You SoCal bettors don't know how good you have it. The races come off the turf, what, 10 times a year?? Those of us who play Midwest and Northeastern tracks deal with this all the time. I've seen races come off the turf plenty of times halfway thru a Pic 4.

[Tom]

But they did nothing from the end of the third race until after the fourth?
The fourth should have been delayed and an decision made immediately.
HOL is not looking out for its paying customers.