How About This New Development?

[Figman]

The ultimate pari-mutuel lure for sports bettors to come to Delaware Park in 2005.

Delaware Park will begin offering two new wagers at its 2005 meet, according to officials of the group that developed the bets. One of the wagers, called the Group Bet, will allow bettors to wager against the favorite and receive the rest of the field. The bet will pay off at the inverse of the favorite's odds. For example, a winning wager on the group bet in which the favorite was 1-2 will pay 2-1.

The other wager, the Choose Six, will allow players to choose any six races on a card for a pick six bet.

The bets have both been patented by Cantor Index, a division of the financial services firm Cantor Fitzgerald, and are being marketed by Scientific Games, the totalizator company. Scientific Games and Cantor will receive a small percentage of each bet, according to Joe Asher, a Cantor official.

[Zaf]

This is not good, All it will take is a jockey to decide to stiff a 1-2 favorite, while all his pals pound the rest of the field at 2-1 :eek:

ZAFONIC

[takeout]

Originally posted by Figman
One of the wagers, called the Group Bet, will allow bettors to wager against the favorite and receive the rest of the field. The bet will pay off at the inverse of the favorite's odds. For example, a winning wager on the group bet in which the favorite was 1-2 will pay 2-1.

At first glance it sounds too good to be true. I mean if favorites only win roughly a third of time... What am I missing here?

[toetoe]

it will start as a great bet. soon it will get hammered down to a fair-odds bet. hey, wait a minute. no amount of money will change the price. it will all depend on the fave's price. the pick-6 thing will die stillborn. you'll get a version of those louisiana 5/of/6's that pay $80 with two $30 horses & a $50 horse. no way will enough people play the exact same 6 to reach a pool of decent size. hey, this is a gag, right?

[Overlay]

Is there a website or some other source of information that discusses how the amount bet on the field is reflected in the mutuel pools?

[Dave Schwartz]

This will never fly, at least not as described.

The inverse of 2:1 after the take will be less than 1:2.

I certainly welcome it, however.


Dave Schwartz

[sq764]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
This will never fly, at least not as described.

The inverse of 2:1 after the take will be less than 1:2.

I certainly welcome it, however.


Dave Schwartz

Couldn't there be a massive negative pool at times??

[Pace Cap'n]

A little off track here (so to speak) but I thought this was interesting, from Oaklawn Park Simulcast


The popular Daily Racing Form Pigskins and Ponies Match Game, has returned to the schedule each Sunday through the regular National Football League season.

In the Daily Racing Form Pigskins and Ponies Match Game players receive an entry blank on their arrival at the track. They have until 12:45 p.m. to fill it out and hand it in to the Information Booth across from the main elevator. Players must be present to win later in the day.

Players will be given eight NFL matchups against the point spread and must make a pick from each of those. In addition they will have six horse races with two individual horses matched up from Hawthorne. Players must select which of the two will beat the other. The horses do not have to win the race to win the match.

If a player were to pick all 14 matches correctly, that player would win $2,000. However the best player of each week wins $500. There is a tiebreaker, which requires a prediction on the win price of a pre-selected horse race, that will be used to separate ties.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Sounds good to me!

[hurrikane]

this does not really make any sense.

if the payoff is decided the fav, where does the money go? is it a seperate pool?

And if the fav is 3-1 who would bet a field at 1-3. And at 1-3 I would lthink you could end up with a great pos pool. And if the Fav wins...where does all the money go?

[MikeDee]

We need to know more about how the bet will be implemented. We are thinking in terms of a single race mutual pool, but it does not have to be that way. My guess that the bet will not be available on all races just those where they see there will be a super favorite, where a field bet will most probably loose. The average favorite may win at 30%, but super favorites in selected races win can win at a 50% rate.

As far as what they will do with the money when the fav wins, I don't think this will be a per race mutual pool. I think the money will be set aside to pay the winners when, every now and then the big fav loses. Over a period of days, weeks, or a meet I am sure that have already run a consideravble number of data base studies that shows how this will work for the track to make their take on an overall basis.

Beating this wager may be a little tougher then one might think at first glance.

[Figman]

I found out more about these two new wagers.

Both are proprietary bets of Scientifc Games (Autotote) and the Cantor Index and are called a "Group Bet" and a "Choose Six." Both debut at Delaware Park in 2005. Does this mean that United Tote and AmTote tracks in the future can also use it, I don't know. Probably for a fee!

The "Choose Six" is a pick six bet where you can pick any six races on a given card. As long as there are six races left on the days card, you can always buy back in.

There is just one pick six payout amount for the day. If John and Jayne both chose six winners with some or many of their winners in different races, John and Jayne each receive the exact same payout. Because of the ability of the bettor to buy back into the pool during the course of a day's card, the Choose Six pool continues to grow until there are only five races remaining. With the given parameters of the wager, the single Choose Six payoff is not available until the conclusion of the last race on a day's card.

The Group Bet is a win wager on every horse in the race except one - the morning line favorite. The payout is the same whether a second choice or a longshot wins. As long as the morning line favorite loses the group bet wins.

A group bet does indeed go into the singular win pool. But the money placed on a group bet is apportioned to all horses in the win pool except the morning line favorite in proportion to the amount of money bet on each horse to win. That is, more money from a group bet would be apportioned to a 4-1 second choice than it would be to a 30-1 longshot. The allocation does not occur until the wagering is closed HOWEVER the system will display the probable odds with each betting cycle as if the allocation had already been made, so in the Cantor Index theory there is no risk of serious late odds changes.

If a member of the group bet wins, the payoffs are the same regardless of the closing odds of which member it is that wins. The payout is calculated by multiplying the amount bet on the winning horse by the horse's odds just as with any win payoff. In general, the group bet payout will always be approximately the inverse of the odds on the excluded horse. As an example, a group bet against a 4/5 favorite will pay about 5/4 with the exact correlation dependent upon the takeout.

The difference with the group bet is that the amount actually bet on the winning horse is only a fraction of the total group bet after it has been allocated across all the members of the group. For example, $0.42 may be allocated to a winning 10-1 shot, resulting in a payoff of $4.20 to the holder of a winning group bet ticket.

[toetoe]

figman, okay,so it't like a sharebuilder account , like dollar-cost averaging. the little guy can get (field - 1) for two bucks. the track takes the extra step of redistributing every wager pro rata. a racing rarity -- it makes sense AND i get it. now the pick-6 thing. i'd wait for all the dummies to reinvest, and i'd play only the last six heats.