Qustion for Charles Ubil, Camptown Races

[karlskorner]

Charles;

After spending 15-20 years of your life developing your method of wagering, why are you willing to sell the system in book form for a few paltry dollars? I can understand selling your selections to a choice few, but to give away the method at which you arrived at these selections, seems ludicrous to me. Certainly by this time you have amassed enough monies that you are not looking to supplement your income. I know that there are members of this board who have developed methods and systems that they wouldn't sell me for 1000 times the cost of a book.

And yes, I visited your site about a year ago, even went so far as to make myself blank charts to take to the track for a period of 2 weeks, I am not saying your method does not work, it's just not my cup of tea.

Karl

[ranchwest]

Karl,

I know you do a lot of observation. Was watching the tote board interfering or distracting you from your other observations during this period? Or was it more a matter of personal preference to not continue doing it?

[karlskorner]

Ranchwest;

I think it was last spring at CRC that I fooled around with it. Does it have merit ? Probably does, but I am not a tote board watcher. I printed out all the examples on the site, took some of it with me to the track, made up a blank chart for each race, so I could follow the changes on the board. Found myself in the paddock running over to the TV monitor to catch any changes etc. and yes if you followed the instructions and examples it "seemed" to work. But after 2 wqeks of following other peoples opinions, I chucked it as it was cutting into my work.

But that has nothing to do with my question. If something works, why would I sell it for a few dollars. I have a stock letter that I answer all the solicitations I receive in the mail, as I am quite sure you do, "Why have you chosen me to be the beneficary of this wonderful "system" that I can purchase for $20.00" have yet to receive an answer.

Karl

[CamptownRaces.com]

This is Charles...

You know, I've been asked that question before.

After seeing that my method did work I guess it was that I had to have others acknowledge my work at first... Then it became about sharing what I found with the few that were interested. Now, I guess it's because when I was struggling with past performance handicapping 20+ years ago a good friend of my fathers showed me a few things that helped me a bunch. I asked him the same question... "why would you show me your secrets?" You just said, "Because you asked!" That has stuck with me from that day on. I will help anyone that asks. There is such a small percentage of people that are willing to even give it a chance, that it's not like it's going to cut into the prices that much. If everyone played my way it wouldn't work. We would all stare at the board waiting for it to change.

I sell the information for one reason... It Works...

I share... I truly believe that everything you do, good or bad, will come back to you in the future. If I can help anybody that needs it, I'm doing nothing less than helping our struggling sport survive!

I was out most of the day in a poker tournament... Didn't finish in the money either... OUCH!!

Until Later,

Charles

[ranchwest]

Originally posted by karlskorner
But that has nothing to do with my question.
Karl

Sorry I went off topic.

About 25 years ago, I ordered a book on handicapping and for years afterward I received sales material in the mail. I never bought any of it, but I'd read everything that came in. I always had the same question. After what appeared to be a lot of effort, why is the knowledge available at a low price?

[Dave Schwartz]

RW,

>>>After what appeared to be a lot of effort, why is the knowledge available at a low price?<<<

That is not really a good argument, for 2 reasons:

1. Price is always based upon what the market will pay rather than what the product is "worth."

2. Education is generally cheap. (If you doubt that, check out the school system and those underpaid wonders that teach our kids.)

Not saying I disagree with your premise, but you'll need better reasons. <G>

Dave

[Tom]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
RW,



2. Education is generally cheap. (If you doubt that, check out the school system and those underpaid wonders that teach our kids.)


Dave

You haven't seen my school tax bill! For what I pay, we shold have a whole lot of rocket scientists graduating this year. But go to a MacDonald's and see your tax dollars at work...for many, this egg macmuffin gig is the pinacle of their careers. And they are struggling with it!
God help us all, 'cause the "outcome- based educationed"
are not prepared to hack it in the real world. Our only hope is that the elderly live longer. What is coming out of the schools today is really sad. Liberal educators took those heads filled with mush and shaped them...into bowls of mush.

Tom

[Dave Schwartz]

Tom,

Now you've done it. You've all but invited me to the soap box. <G>

But I will try to restrain myself... <G>

I'll just say this. (I couldn't help it!)

Educators are underpaid... and the bureaucrats are overpaid and wasteful.

There. I'm done.

Dave

PS: I think my tongue is bleeding. <G>

[ranchwest]

I wasn't referring to the demand side, I was wondering how the supply side originated at all.

[karlskorner]

If educators are to be used as an example of being "underpaid" than certainly Mr. Ubil is being underpaid, as he is also an "educator" of sorts. Most educators I have spoken to who complain about low pay, claim they are teaching because they love it. Mr. Ubil explains his benevolance by explaining that this has become a purpose in his life.

As to "what the market will bear" I reminded of an article I read the other day about a drug companys reply when asked why the cost of a certain drug was so expensive, the answer made sense to me "because it took millions of dollars" to develop. If Mr. Ubil's method really "works" as he claims, than certainly he should charge ten-fold the amount that he is asking for his books, to justify the time and effort spent, or like many other books, methods and systems, was it sent up the pole to see if it would fly.

Karl

[andicap]

As someone who has always fantasized (who hasn't) about quitting my job and playing the horses for much of my income -- I could also fall back on writing to supplement -- I have my own answer to that question: I couldn't bet enough money to make what I need. Ron Ambrose had a term for the maximum amount you could bet before your hand started shaking -- a "Shaker Bet."
Even if you are winning with say a dcent 10-15% ROI there will be a maximum you can bet before your brain kicks in....
To supplement your income, you would want to write books, teach courses, etc.

[GameTheory]

It's a matter of perspective & personal philosophy.

Take academic researchers. They spend lots of time & effort to make all sorts of discoveries... and then they share their knowledge with the world for nothing. This knowledge is often then snapped up by industry and turned into $$$ for someone else. And in most cases the guy that came up with the original idea could care less -- he likes what he's doing.

Now, if all you're interested in is making as much money as possible for yourself, then you'd keep your secrets to yourself or sell them only at high prices. (I'm not trying to imply anything about you, Karl.)

It's a question of fulfillment, not just money.

[karlskorner]

Andicap - Game Theory

To quote Casey Stengal again

"When you come to a fork in the road, take it"

Many years ago I came to that fork in the road. I found that just about everybody was into reading books on 'handicapping" and they went that way, I chose the other fork and decided to learn about the business of horse racing.

Karl