Gulfstream Park

[karlskorner]

Frank Stronach giveth and Frank Stronach taketh away.

Both tracks are ready for 1/3/05. FREE PARKING, FREE ADMISSION. There will be 4/5 large tents, 1 for Grandstand and 1 for Club house (not sure why, since admission is Free). BUT....the tent for dining will cost $20.00 bucks to get in, and better yet the tent for wagering will cost $5.00 to get in, as reported by the Sun Sentinal

[JackS]

Karl- It might be because many enjoy the "grandstand" atmosphere over the "clubhouse". I don't but many do.
Since both are going to be in a tent, you'd think both would be pretty much be the same.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by karlskorner
Frank Stronach giveth and Frank Stronach taketh away.

Both tracks are ready for 1/3/05. FREE PARKING, FREE ADMISSION. There will be 4/5 large tents, 1 for Grandstand and 1 for Club house (not sure why, since admission is Free). BUT....the tent for dining will cost $20.00 bucks to get in, and better yet the tent for wagering will cost $5.00 to get in, as reported by the Sun Sentinal
Poor Frank!!
He just cant win~
It wont matter what he does as there will always be someone who isnt happy.

[karlskorner]

I for one am on the Stroanch wagon, delighted with what he has done. The $20.00 for the Dining Tent is for a buffet, for those who are into that. I am going to assume there will be other stands for food, a meet without Chowder is unheard of. If Magna is going to give Free Parking and Free Admission for the meet, which they should for the inconvenience of the construction, than charging $5.00 to get into the wagering tent is rather cheeky.

By me, everything is in place and I am ready for another great meet.

[cj]

After spending a day at Laurel and a day at Pimlico, and seeing the changes that have taken place, I don't see how anyone can be "on the bandwagon!" Nuff said....

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by karlskorner
I for one am on the Stroanch wagon, delighted with what he has done. The $20.00 for the Dining Tent is for a buffet, for those who are into that. I am going to assume there will be other stands for food, a meet without Chowder is unheard of. If Magna is going to give Free Parking and Free Admission for the meet, which they should for the inconvenience of the construction, than charging $5.00 to get into the wagering tent is rather cheeky.

By me, everything is in place and I am ready for another great meet.

Hi Karl, I didnt mean you sir, I meant in general, Im glad to see someone besides me who likes Frank and what he has done, I myself have never won a race at The Gulf, I would love to be able to win a race there.I hope he has a a great meet even know we have the bashers!!

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
After spending a day at Laurel and a day at Pimlico, and seeing the changes that have taken place, I don't see how anyone can be "on the bandwagon!" Nuff said....

CJ, They could hand you a golden spoon and you still woudnt be happy. Enuff said

[cj]

Tom,

How many times have you been to Pimlico since the track was purchased? I seriously doubt you have stepped foot there, so you obviously have NO IDEA what I'm talking about, correct?

[karlskorner]

I personally, have never been to Laurel or Pimlico and haven't the slightest desire to go there. But if you open the site of www.gulfstreampark.com. go to the right of the home page to redevelopment and see the renderings of the new facilites and than skroll down to 11/17 pictures, give me a reason why I and others should not be excited.

As I sit out on the terrace of CRC and someone asks "how you doing ? " I reply, "It don't get any better than this"

[cj]

Originally posted by karlskorner
I personally, have never been to Laurel or Pimlico and haven't the slightest desire to go there.

We have no desire to have you! :D

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
Tom,

How many times have you been to Pimlico since the track was purchased? I seriously doubt you have stepped foot there, so you obviously have NO IDEA what I'm talking about, correct?

To be honest CJ, I have never been to Pimlico, Isnt this place in one of the murder capital's of the world?.What was the track like when he bought it..or?..Is he leasing it?. I know you say the handle is down and it has small fields.Besides the handle being down, wasnt the place sort of tattered when he got it?.Were they not going bankrupt before he bought it?..OR is this one of the properities that he paid way too much for..Tell me please ..What has Frank done wrong here...I am going to have a chat with Andy his son as he is here every winter, I am going to run all of this by him,I am going to tell him how you as the better are very unhappy, and also give him a the high five for a new improved Gulfsteam

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
To be honest CJ, I have never been to Pimlico, Isnt this place in one of the murder capital's of the world?.What was the track like when he bought it..or?..Is he leasing it?. I know you say the handle is down and it has small fields.Besides the handle being down, wasnt the place sort of tattered when he got it?.Were they not going bankrupt before he bought it?..OR is this one of the properities that he paid way too much for..Tell me please ..What has Frank done wrong here...I am going to have a chat with Andy his son as he is here every winter, I am going to run all of this by him,I am going to tell him how you as the better are very unhappy, and also give him a the high five for a new improved Gulfsteam

You make it too easy.

Was the place sort of tattered when he got it? Yes

OR is this one of the properities that he paid way too much for? Not or, but yes. It was tattered and he paid way too much for it.

What has Frank done wrong here? He hasn't done anything, so I guess you couldn't say its wrong. Other than make a total mess of rebuilding Laurel, that is.

Customer service is non existent. You have to drive half way around the world to get in the one gate that was open for entrance. I guess they just can't afford to pay an extra parking attendant or two?

Tellers are clueless, waiters are rude, its awful. I don't smoke, but my brother wanted to buy a pack of cigarettes at the bar. He was told they only carry Wave cigarettes since Stronach took over. Some made in Japan cigarette or something. I mean really, what is that all about?

The place is just awful. Shall I go on, or is that enough?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
You make it too easy.

Was the place sort of tattered when he got it? Yes

OR is this one of the properities that he paid way too much for? Not or, but yes. It was tattered and he paid way too much for it.

What has Frank done wrong here? He hasn't done anything, so I guess you couldn't say its wrong. Other than make a total mess of rebuilding Laurel, that is.

Customer service is non existent. You have to drive half way around the world to get in the one gate that was open for entrance. I guess they just can't afford to pay an extra parking attendant or two?

Tellers are clueless, waiters are rude, its awful. I don't smoke, but my brother wanted to buy a pack of cigarettes at the bar. He was told they only carry Wave cigarettes since Stronach took over. Some made in Japan cigarette or something. I mean really, what is that all about?

The place is just awful. Shall I go on, or is that enough?

Maybe that gate that is the only one open for safty reasons??..As for the rude waiters and waitress's..A tip makes them smile, as for them selling Wave smokes..I would think a smoker wouldnt care as long as he had a smoke,Im sure there are reasons behind his thinking.Did he promise to fix it up, I do know he promised to rebuild Gulfstraem when he bought it, Im also thinking this..What makes pimlico so good..Just because the Preakness is held there?.I would think that may also change.Thanks CJ

[Tom]

Last time I was at Pimlico, it was a dump. I mean, a bottom of the barrel dump. Yellow river in the slanted ground floor of the grandstand. You get what I mean by "yellow?" Great clientel they have there.

And as for GP charging $5.00 to get into the betting tent? Come on!?! Is this guy from earth or what. Frankie is racings worst enenmy. $5 for the privelage to make a bet at a racetrack???? Count me as still on the boycott bandwagon. I did not miss SA or GP one iota last year and will not miss them again this year.

[JackS]

Charging $5 bucks to get into one of the tents with the betting tent free would have been a better way of doing business.
Probably figured " let em in free and they'll pay the five dollars to bet".

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Maybe that gate that is the only one open for safty reasons??..As for the rude waiters and waitress's..A tip makes them smile, as for them selling Wave smokes..I would think a smoker wouldnt care as long as he had a smoke,Im sure there are reasons behind his thinking.Did he promise to fix it up, I do know he promised to rebuild Gulfstraem when he bought it, Im also thinking this..What makes pimlico so good..Just because the Preakness is held there?.I would think that may also change.Thanks CJ

Are you for real? Sometimes I think you live on another planet and just drop by now and then.

Tips come after good service, not before! Not to mention I'm a very polite guy anyway.

Like I said, I don't smoke, but this is America. Why limit people to one foreign choice of cigarettes?

The gate is not closed for safety reasons. Why would you even say that? Do you just make up things to defend Stronach? And of course he promised to fix it up, like he does every track he buys.

As for Pimlico, despite all its problems, the racing is still at least as good as that crap they run at Calder, so spare me.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
Are you for real? Sometimes I think you live on another planet and just drop by now and then.

Tips come after good service, not before! Not to mention I'm a very polite guy anyway.

Like I said, I don't smoke, but this is America. Why limit people to one foreign choice of cigarettes?

The gate is not closed for safety reasons. Why would you even say that? Do you just make up things to defend Stronach? And of course he promised to fix it up, like he does every track he buys.

As for Pimlico, despite all its problems, the racing is still at least as good as that crap they run at Calder, so spare me.

Thats funny CJ.
No I dont thik of things to defend Stronach, What I find interesting is your approach to everything you post!!..So tell me.I guess you only bet the NY horses..cause all of your other so called good tracks in Cali are just as bad off.Too bad you can't be an optimist like me instead of always being pessimistic . I look for the good in everything..Not just the bad!

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Thats funny CJ.
No I dont thik of things to defend Stronach, What I find interesting is your approach to everything you post!!..So tell me.I guess you only bet the NY horses..cause all of your other so called good tracks in Cali are just as bad off.Too bad you can't be an optimist like me instead of always being pessimistic . I look for the good in everything..Not just the bad!

I mostly bet NY, but I bet plenty others, including SoCal. This has nothing to do with betting though, so I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Nearly 5000 posts, trust me, many aren't pessimistic. Stronach seems to bring that out in me, among others.

[PaceAdvantage]

He's a Stronach apologist. Stronach can do no wrong in McSchell's eyes.

That's fine. Doesn't make him a bad person. Doesn't make CJ a bad person either, for telling it like it is.

[bobbytabb]

The GP website notes that in addition to the Wagering tent that will cost $5, there will be 8 wagering huts and walking tellers using the remote devices. So, anyone can make a free wager without paying to go into one of the tents. I would imagine that the wagering tent will have the carrels and seating that can be purchased, so, it should resemble a sports book.
I think the main concern will be creating energy and excitment that can be maintained for the 4 month meet. There will be no concert series and the spartan look and feel may not appeal to everyone, so attendance will be down. I guess we'll find out just how many true horseplayers we have out there.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by bobbytabb
The GP website notes that in addition to the Wagering tent that will cost $5, there will be 8 wagering huts and walking tellers using the remote devices. So, anyone can make a free wager without paying to go into one of the tents. I would imagine that the wagering tent will have the carrels and seating that can be purchased, so, it should resemble a sports book.
I think the main concern will be creating energy and excitment that can be maintained for the 4 month meet. There will be no concert series and the spartan look and feel may not appeal to everyone, so attendance will be down. I guess we'll find out just how many true horseplayers we have out there.

A man after my own heart..A man with the facts.. Thankyou!..I just love it, ANYTHING to do with Mr Stronach or MEC gets eveybody listening, may it be something big or something petty, ALL you Stronach bashers have your ear to the wall and very loose lips, All the bashers are hoping this guy does bad.This man is trying to help everyone by having walk around bettors and also giving you a chance to have a private place with a seat,The concerts will be back with time, Doesnt sound like he is trying to rip anyone off by me.

[PaceAdvantage]

We're not hoping this guy does bad! We're hoping he does GOOD! That's the problem! We're disappointed!

So far, I don't think most would agree that his good outweighs bad. Plus, I would think most of us WOULD agree that one entity owning all these racetracks can't be a positive thing in the LONG run. That's why America has antitrust laws on the books.

[Faster]

I would like to make my own pars for upcoming GP meet, utilizing spreadsheet and results from Equibase.
Does anyone have any great ideas. i.e. copying results to spread sheet and or creating various functions for other reference.

What do you think?

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, I would say Wall Street agrees that the good hasn't outweighed the bad.....if you bought MECA at the end of its first month in existence, you haven't made a dime....(I think you might have made a penny)

[sjk]

Faster,

Everyone will be making new pars for GP which presents either opportunity or risk depending on how you look at it. I wonder how the major data providers will handle the situation.

I will probably be careful in my play from mid to late January as horses which ran early in the meet run for a second time and the pars I use to evaluate their performance are based on very limited data.

On the other hand the opportunity aspect is tempting if some of the data providers make a poor transition.

[sjk]

Faster,

Since I didn't really answer your question as to how, I'll give the steps that I use. This is probably similar to what others would do since the ideas come from the standard literature on the subject.

1). Start with a set of class par values (C10000=80, etc.) for older horses at GP. No reason not to use pars from past meets at GP. I do not use races for horses which are just turning three years old.

2). Take the races for older horses (there will be lamentably few at GP) and use the class pars to adjust the race times to a common figure (80) using the table which converts points to seconds at each distance.

3). Average the times to get a first approximation to the pars.

4). Using these a pars, use your favorite method to calculate daily variants for the races above.

5). Now average the adjusted times to get better pars.

6). Use these pars to recalculate the variants and then the improved variants to recalculate the pars.

The question is when to do this. I will probably wait until 3 weeks into the meet. Even then there won't be much data to work with.

[Faster]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sjk
[B]Faster,


1). Start with a set of class par values (C10000=80, etc.) for older horses at GP. No reason not to use pars from past meets at GP. I do not use races for horses which are just turning three years old.



What distances should one do?

Will GP run enough races for all distances, say, including 71/2, 1 70 yds etc? Probably not.
5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12F might be good enogh. What about 5 1/2 and 6 1/2?

What class levels will GP have?

Will there be C8000? MC less than 20000? Where do you put starter allowance?
(Man, I didn't keep one Form from last year -- everything may change anyway).


6). Use these pars to recalculate the variants and then the improved variants to recalculate the pars.


Thanks for detailed answer -- I didn't realize what a loaded question that was. Good thing we've got a bit of time before the meet.

[sjk]

I don't know whether last year's distances will be a good indicator of what will happen this year but in the past they have run 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 7 furlongs, 1m 70, 1 1/16m and 1 1/8 m on the dirt.

There will probably be changes with the new track configuration. I believe 1 1/16m is out.

Last year they ran C8000 and MC16000. You might see if the condition book is up yet on the web site.

[JackS]

For Starter Alw, I would attempt to adjust these types to an appropiate Claiming level.
Even then, I would probably keep the developed pars separate from the regular pars but, your choice.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
We're not hoping this guy does bad! We're hoping he does GOOD! That's the problem! We're disappointed!

So far, I don't think most would agree that his good outweighs bad. Plus, I would think most of us WOULD agree that one entity owning all these racetracks can't be a positive thing in the LONG run. That's why America has antitrust laws on the books.

Thank you PA
Thats the first time ANYONE has said they are disappointed!!..All the other posts about MECA have a lot of venom in them.Dont worry, The Gulf will put MEC back in the good books for all the bashers..you too CJ;)

[freehouse2002]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
We're not hoping this guy does bad! We're hoping he does GOOD! That's the problem! We're disappointed!

So far, I don't think most would agree that his good outweighs bad. Plus, I would think most of us WOULD agree that one entity owning all these racetracks can't be a positive thing in the LONG run. That's why America has antitrust laws on the books. So from what you are saying, it's bad that Stronach has a lot of tracks, but it's ok that Churchill is doing the same exact thing? It sure sounds that you are bashing MEC for doing what CDSN does.



freehouse2002

[Faster]

Originally posted by sjk
Faster,


4). Using these a pars, use your favorite method to calculate daily variants for the races above.



If I were to off the cuff speculate, I would allow up to 10 points for cuppy type drying track, with 20+ m/hr headwinds and -5 points for the fastest, speed favouring 20+m/hr tailwind type day, where each +1 would represent 1 tick slower final par time at distance, on surface. No?

[Faster]

Originally posted by sjk
ILast year they ran C8000 and MC16000. You might see if the condition book is up yet on the web site.

I did look, and the condition book is not yet. It is a fabulous idea and I am sure we will be able to see one sometime in December.

Looking online see if there are detailed instructions on making par figs, variants etc but not finding anything much.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by freehouse2002
So from what you are saying, it's bad that Stronach has a lot of tracks, but it's ok that Churchill is doing the same exact thing? It sure sounds that you are bashing MEC for doing what CDSN does.



freehouse2002

Actually, this is the Gulfstream Park thread, and I was responding to McShell, who was specifically addressing Stronach. I'm not sure why you are bringing CDSN into this, but if you'd like to start another thread, be my guest.

[sjk]

Faster,

As to how you can calculate variants I would refer you back to Beyer's standard reference that many of us learned from. You will also learn enough about making par times that you may wish to ignore my previous post.

My point was that since the track surface and configuration will be different than in the past you will need a means of using fairly limited data to get the par times if you want to have them in time to use at the GP spring meet.

[Tom]

GP-I read on another sire that there will be no turf raing for 4-6 weeks into the meet. Anyone else hear about this?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Tom
GP-I read on another sire that there will be no turf raing for 4-6 weeks into the meet. Anyone else hear about this?

I will see what I can find out for you guys on whether that is true, I will also get a backside update.I havent been there for 2 weeks so a lot can happen. When Tampa put in their new turf course , They didnt use it for a year,Just my thoughts but myself I would think it needs more time to root,I also wouldnt be surprised if they are real carefull this meet with the new turf,No sense having a bad turf course..Just what the Stronach bashers need..More fuel for their fire...By the way Tom..Didnt you say you wont bet Gulfstream..

[Tom]

No bets on GP, but horse do ship OUT to real track, and I bet them there:D

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Tom
GP-I read on another sire that there will be no turf raing for 4-6 weeks into the meet. Anyone else hear about this?


If there's a "really pissed" emoticon, I'd enter it HERE. I like to cut track's Maiden divisions into 3 parts. Sprinters, routers and turfers. Looks like some value is out the window this season.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

This is a shame, but something I s/h been aware of. They'll have to baby that course for a season.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ElKabong
If there's a "really pissed" emoticon, I'd enter it HERE. I like to cut track's Maiden divisions into 3 parts. Sprinters, routers and turfers. Looks like some value is out the window this season.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

This is a shame, but something I s/h been aware of. They'll have to baby that course for a season.

I dont know why youwould be pissed, Takes time to get a nie turf course,If you research my posts I called this several months ago,I was at the Gulf today, I hadnt been there for 2 weeks,I will say this...It looked 100% better then when I last saw it, Looks to me...MEC...is doing a great job..Atta boy Frank;)

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
BTW, I would say Wall Street agrees that the good hasn't outweighed the bad.....if you bought MECA at the end of its first month in existence, you haven't made a dime....(I think you might have made a penny)

Steady as she goes!!

[ElKabong]

mcshell,

I was referring to the probabilty that GeePee will have fewer turf races this season. Kinda puts a wrench in things for me if that's the case.

As for the pro-magna/ anti-magna pissing contest, you and cj are all alone there. I want no part of that nonsense.

[Faster]

Originally posted by sjk
Faster,

As to how you can calculate variants I would refer you back to Beyer's standard reference that many of us learned from. You will also learn enough about making par times that you may wish to ignore my previous post.

My point was that since the track surface and configuration will be different than in the past you will need a means of using fairly limited data to get the par times if you want to have them in time to use at the GP spring meet.

Sjk, I appreciate your help.

Re-reading some of the stuff read long time ago. Always a good idea. Will probably be back before GP meet to talk about my new discoveries! Thanks.
;)

[Rexdale You]

From a Tool & Diemaker in 1964 to King of the hill.

Not a bad success story. Now he jets around the

planet from Austria to Canada to USA. He seems to

know how to play the capitalist game successfully.

Who else was prepared to fix up G.P. & Pimlico.

Do i detect resentment in some posts.

Maybe Arnold shoud be encouraged to play a part.

Both are great success stories from Austria.

Rex You,,,:cool: :cool: :D

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Rexdale You
From a Tool & Diemaker in 1964 to King of the hill.

Not a bad success story. Now he jets around the

planet from Austria to Canada to USA. He seems to

know how to play the capitalist game successfully.

Who else was prepared to fix up G.P. & Pimlico.

Do i detect resentment in some posts.

Maybe Arnold shoud be encouraged to play a part.

Both are great success stories from Austria.

Rex You,,,:cool: :cool: :D

OMG you are setting yourself up, Most of these guys hate MEC and I have been blasted for my veiws about him, I agree with you,I have been told he hasnt done anything at Pimlico but oh my you should see Gulfstream!!

[Niko]

I wasn't happy with Stronach pulling the plug last winter on Brisbet and I chose not to bet his tracks during the winter, BUT I understood the business decision behind it. He took a gamble (as he has before) and ended up ticking a lot of people off.
However I wouldn't be upset about what he's doing to Gulfstream. He's upgraded the facility, built a state of the art training facility and put in a new training track. I'm sure he knows a lack of turf racing will hurt his handle a bit but it's the best business decision in the long run. When the new turf course is up and full fields are running due to everything that's happening down there I don't think many will complain (but I know I'm wrong about that)

[karlskorner]

Frank Stronach spent $80 million creating the training track at Palm Meadows, according to trainers and owners the best in the country, another $150 plus million rebuilding Gulfstream, again probably the best in the country. With the coming of "slots" there is little doubt in my mind that that S. Florida will become the premier racing site for the country. He sees the future.

You become a Billionaire with foresight.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by karlskorner
Frank Stronach spent $80 million creating the training track at Palm Meadows, according to trainers and owners the best in the country, another $150 plus million rebuilding Gulfstream, again probably the best in the country. With the coming of "slots" there is little doubt in my mind that that S. Florida will become the premier racing site for the country. He sees the future.

You become a Billionaire with foresight.

A "Toast" to my friend Karl..Thankyou...

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by karlskorner
Frank Stronach spent $80 million creating the training track at Palm Meadows, according to trainers and owners the best in the country, another $150 plus million rebuilding Gulfstream, again probably the best in the country. With the coming of "slots" there is little doubt in my mind that that S. Florida will become the premier racing site for the country. He sees the future.

You become a Billionaire with foresight.


yep, and they are just one decent hurricane away from losing it all.........

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
OMG you are setting yourself up, Most of these guys hate MEC and I have been blasted for my veiws about him, I agree with you,I have been told he hasnt done anything at Pimlico but oh my you should see Gulfstream!!

Come on dude. Blasted? I think that's a little bit harsh. You weren't blasted. You were debated.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Come on dude. Blasted? I think that's a little bit harsh. You weren't blasted. You were debated.

I dont call being called ignorant or a village idiot being debated!!

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by JustRalph
yep, and they are just one decent hurricane away from losing it all.........

Here is a post that seeths jealousy.
One of the classiest yet!

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Here is a post that seeths jealousy.
One of the classiest yet!

jealousy? where do you get that? After the year Florida had, and I know you are well aware, my comment was stating the obvious. If I was going to put 80 million into an investment, I don't think Florida would be my first choice. But that is just me.

[Tom]

Did Franky replace the obviously flawed timer system that has made GP a laughing stock in recent years? That would have been a major improvement....accurate times.

[karlskorner]

The "official" hurricane season is between June 1 and Dec. 1, ( they have that narrowed down) I am certain Mr. Stronach took that in consideration before he put the first dollar in the ground, GP's dates are 1/3 to 4/24.

Palm Meadows received some slight damage from the past 4 hurricanes, GP and CRC nothing. The last hurricane damage at CRC was back in the late 70's , window blew out on the west end and tore out a window on the east end, I was sitting about 20' away, roared through like a freight train. scared the hell out of me. There are a "few" of us left who remember that, the shade of the replaced windows is different so we have something to point too as a memory. Hialeah got hit hard one season, but who cares. GP and CRC are on the same latitude. I guess it pays to have the "right" people on the payroll.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by JustRalph
jealousy? where do you get that? After the year Florida had, and I know you are well aware, my comment was stating the obvious. If I was going to put 80 million into an investment, I don't think Florida would be my first choice. But that is just me.

South Florida is the place Ralph..Its warm, Thousands of people, MONEy, Yes we can have a hurricane,There may be some damage, BUT The old grandstand withstood all them years, Im sure it will be built to withstand hurricanes.If MEC builds like he runs his stables and farms, This place will be grand and withstand the elements of time.Jump on Frankies bandwagon and come see, I hear its cold in ohio this time of year!!

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Tom
Did Franky replace the obviously flawed timer system that has made GP a laughing stock in recent years? That would have been a major improvement....accurate times.

Tom I have a serious question for you..When you cash a ticket do you care how fast the time of the race was?..I will see what I can find out about the imer, Didnt know it was bad, Hell every race I ran in the timer worked fine.

[karlskorner]

What Tom is referring to is a couple of years back the timers were not working properly, hell what do you expect from something that was put in the ground in 1939. Fortunately Toby Callet and Richie the Beard "hand timed" for Equibase, so there really wasn't a problem.

Do you realize how cold and how much colder it's going to get in Canandaigua, New York, the man has to vent. Besides that it's still a "full moon", put your shorts on and go outside to view "moon over Miami" hanging on the horizon, you can almost touch it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Tom I have a serious question for you..When you cash a ticket do you care how fast the time of the race was?..I will see what I can find out about the imer, Didnt know it was bad, Hell every race I ran in the timer worked fine.

You're not putting down handicappers who place a premium on pace and speed, are you? That would be bashing (or to use your term, blasting), wouldn't it?

We'll leave the training expertise to you, you leave the handicapping expertise to us.....:)

[Suff]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
You're not putting down handicappers who place a premium on pace and speed, are you? That would be bashing (or to use your term, blasting), wouldn't it?

We'll leave the training expertise to you, you leave the handicapping expertise to us.....:)

They do say:

Only two people make money who work on the backside.

1. The guy who sells the Ice

2. And the backside Bookmaker.


Backside workers , including Trainers and Jockeys, generally are lousy handicappers.

[JustRalph]

I have been to Florida. Can you say humidity? Ok...it's a nice area. But not my kind of area. To each his own. I prefer the desert much more.

On the trip to Gulfstream.......yeah maybe someday. I have nice touring bike and might do that someday. But I have a few others on my list before Gulfstream. You know, like Finger Lakes.........:D

[Tom]

Cold is a given up here. I can live with that. I can take about a week of Florida humidity and I am ready to come up North. Last time I was there, it was 94 F at 2am.....and wringing wet. I went swimming and saw a shark not 10 feet away! And back at home, the back yard was full of lizzards and the kitchen full of palmetto bugs. And come nightime, Lord knows what those things flying around the porch ligth were! At least in Canandaigua Lake, nothing is going to eat me!
Seriously, Franky did what made business sense to himm, and those of us who he totally and completely had no regard for and ingnored are now just doing the same thing back at him-ignoring him. Fair enough?

And McShell, about pace times.....what is YOUR win %....mine is 31% using pace:D
What is yours ignoring it? :confused:

[takeout]

I think the timing fiasco turned out to be human error.

[karlskorner]

First and foremost on your "MUST DO TODAY" list is get rid of your Travel Agent. It is apparent you haven't been here for quite a while, it's against the law to sleep on the beach in a bedroll.

[cj]

Originally posted by takeout
I think the timing fiasco turned out to be human error.

It was human, but not necessarily error, probably intentional.

[cj]

Originally posted by Suff
They do say:

Only two people make money who work on the backside.

1. The guy who sells the Ice

2. And the backside Bookmaker.


Backside workers , including Trainers and Jockeys, generally are lousy handicappers.

WOW, this is funny. I have a friend at Pimlico works for Scott Lake's Maryland division. Hadn't seen him in years, but saw him before the last race on Saturday. He tells me, we can't lose, and the 5 had a real tough trip last out, use him in the tri with our horse. "Our horse" was the 1, and even money or so.

I do a quick glance at the PPs and tell him the 5 must have had a whole bunch of bad trips, not just the last one. And that Lake's horse was a contender, but a huge underlay that I wouldn't bet with his money.

Short version, Lake's horse ran a bad 3d, and the 5 might still be out there he was so far behind. "Let It Ride" should have had Trotter running around the backside crossing off horses instead of the grandstand. Those guys, for the most part, can't cap.

[cj]

Originally posted by karlskorner
First and foremost on your "MUST DO TODAY" list is get rid of your Travel Agent. It is apparent you haven't been here for quite a while, it's against the law to sleep on the beach in a bedroll.

A lot of things are against the law, that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
You're not putting down handicappers who place a premium on pace and speed, are you? That would be bashing (or to use your term, blasting), wouldn't it?

We'll leave the training expertise to you, you leave the handicapping expertise to us.....:)

Ill tell you why I asked that question!, You must remember I am not thinking like a capper would!! I have a very easy system that I do when the form comes out on my horses race,If the numbers dont match,I get the hell out of the race,I can look at all the times of the other horses and I look for only 1 thing.highest beyer for the distance..All the other beyers to me mean nothing as its a different distance,When you run you want to run your horse at his best distance.Therefor if you relly think about it..Time means nothing..When my horse wins..I always have to ask how fast the race went..It doesnt mean a thing to me

[andicap]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I have been to Florida. Can you say humidity? Ok...it's a nice area. But not my kind of area. To each his own. I prefer the desert much more.

On the trip to Gulfstream.......yeah maybe someday. I have nice touring bike and might do that someday. But I have a few others on my list before Gulfstream. You know, like Finger Lakes.........:D

Your thinking about the summer. I'm not the biggest fan of Florida, but when I've gone in mid-March, the weather has been beautiful. Not too hot, not too much humidity. Great looking women at the bars.

Im disappointed that it looks like my annual trip to GP will be canceled because there doesn't appear to be a nice restaurant to spend the day at relaxing. (My cousin is not a hard-core player so he's not going to sit in a wagering "hut"). We have a great time at the restaurant that's outside at the far end of the clubhouse turn. Very nice place.

[cj]

Tom,

When you look at Beyers, you are looking at time, just in a different, and better, format. Your reasoning is good. Is it that easy to scratch just because you think your horse is overmatched?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
It was human, but not necessarily error, probably intentional.

Yeah well least you cant blame FRANK.LMAO

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
Tom,

When you look at Beyers, you are looking at time, just in a different, and better, format. Your reasoning is good. Is it that easy to scratch just because you think your horse is overmatched?

If I wanted to scratch Im sure it could be done,In ll honesty I do place my horse in the best possible spot and I have never had to scratch.But yes you can scratch but they dont like it, In a place like Tampa I had to enter 5 times to get in, If you scratched you lost your date,Thats why it better to place them properly rather then wasting a a race

[cj]

He wasn't even the owner back then. I actually had a very long letter printed in the "Letters to the Editor" in DRF back when this happened. I wish I still had it.

As far as Frank goes, I think its great he is fixing up Gulfstream and making it a nice racing facility. Its about time he did something at all the other tracks he made grand promises though. Of course you guys are happy, he is helping you down there. Ask people in Maryland, Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, SoCal, and NoCal what he's done. That's all I'm saying about the man. I'm not trying to knock what he IS doing in Florida.

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
If I wanted to scratch Im sure it could be done,In ll honesty I do place my horse in the best possible spot and I have never had to scratch.But yes you can scratch but they dont like it, In a place like Tampa I had to enter 5 times to get in, If you scratched you lost your date,Thats why it better to place them properly rather then wasting a a race

Just a tip...in DRF Simulcast Weekly, they list Beyer Speed pars for the different classes of race at most tracks. You can also find out whatever Beyer Speed Figures you want (especially your horses) to know before the PPs come out. It would have to be a help in the placement of your horses.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by andicap
Your thinking about the summer. I'm not the biggest fan of Florida, but when I've gone in mid-March, the weather has been beautiful. Not too hot, not too much humidity. Great looking women at the bars.

Im disappointed that it looks like my annual trip to GP will be canceled because there doesn't appear to be a nice restaurant to spend the day at relaxing. (My cousin is not a hard-core player so he's not going to sit in a wagering "hut"). We have a great time at the restaurant that's outside at the far end of the clubhouse turn. Very nice place.

Wanna hear some gossip????..

I heard at Hollywood Beach, Some guy wants to open a bar with wagering.Is that possible?..Was there checking out some vacant land on johnson st??? Maybe its Franks son..Andy,,Who knows.. Anything is possible with FRANK in town. Stay tuned,,Welcome to MEC land, Home of Hallandale Beach

[Equineer]

I think everyone here loves good racing.

So does Mr. Stronach.

He reads the PA Board religiously.

Mr. Stronach is demonstrating in Florida what he is willing to do for supportive PA members like Karlskorner and McSchell.

However, Mr. Stronach is very proud and sensitive at the same time... a characteristic shared by other great Austrian achievers like Freud, Mozart, and Schwarzenegger. Therefore, instead of exhibiting petty jealousy, the voices of the anti-Austrian minority should consider what the majority of us want... good racing!

If everyone with ties to Maryland, Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, and California would stop their hateful bashing, I am sure Mr. Stronach would respond positively. In the meantime, Stronach-bashers are selfishly penalizing all horseplayers by continuing to antagonize Mr. Stronach. :)

[Larry Hamilton]

What floors me is that you think your reputation is sufficient to support ANYONE or sway any conduct.

Another thought-- A self-made successful business man sits around with his Remy Martin whimpering about what a bunch of horse players think or say about him. The image does not compute.

And finally, your signature "fair and balanced"--my ass!

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
What floors me is that you think your reputation is sufficient to support ANYONE or sway any conduct.

Another thought-- A self-made successful business man sits around with his Remy Martin whimpering about what a bunch of horse players think or say about him. The image does not compute.

And finally, your signature "fair and balanced"--my ass!

VetScratch.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Equineer
[B]
If everyone with ties to Maryland, Ohio, Texas, Oklahoma, and California would stop their hateful bashing, I am sure Mr. Stronach would respond positively. In the meantime, Stronach-bashers are selfishly penalizing all horseplayers by continuing to antagonize Mr. Stronach. :)

What an assanine statement. If he's a good businessman, he'll do what's best for the bottomline, not knee-jerk his decisions to fit his emotions.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I think Equineer/VetScratch is just having some fun, possibly at the expense of anyone taking the comments seriously. :cool:

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
I think Equineer/VetScratch is just having some fun, possibly at the expense of anyone taking the comments seriously. :cool:

Yup. Those emoticons are such a dead giveaway.

[ElKabong]

Well, he got me, Steve! LOL.

As I've said before, LS is better off with magna as opposed to the original ownership.

The downside is that the simo monitors are in need of replacements nowdays. About 33% of the monitors in the non-smoking carrels have to go. It's not like they don't have the funds.., they do.

One of Duhon's owners walked into Purple Power's office late last year and made the comment that LS had simo'd out more $$ the previous month than any other building in north America. Hell, if that's the case, replace the monitors with bad video or missing volume/ channel controls. Put that money back into the damn bldg.

I sure don't want that $$ to go to Fla so they can build "betting huts" for old wrinkled up farts feasting on the AYCE applesauce buffet ;)

[cj]

Originally posted by ElKabong

I sure don't want that $$ to go to Fla so they can build "betting huts" for old wrinkled up farts feasting on the AYCE applesauce buffet ;)

Why'd you have to go and drag a couple of our board members into this? :D :D :D

[karlskorner]

Looking into Frank Stroanch's mind, Gulf Stream is the most logical of the 14 tracks he owns to rebuild, using his own money, what with the coming of "slots". From that point on he will be using "other peoples" money. The success of anyone in business is the use of "other peoples" money.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Gulfstream Park 2007 ...I can just see Hallandale and Hollywood beach is a couple of years,Beautiful ladies walking around in their bikini's taking your bet as you watch the race from a monitor hanging from a palm tree,watching your wife and kid frolic in the ocean as you cheer your horse home, Is that paradise??. South Florida racing!! Be a part of it!

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Gulfstream Park 2007 ...I can just see Hallandale and Hollywood beach is a couple of years,Beautiful ladies walking around in their bikini's taking your bet as you watch the race from a monitor hanging from a palm tree,watching your wife and kid frolic in the ocean as you cheer your horse home, Is that paradise??. South Florida racing!! Be a part of it!


I can see nothing but retirees and immigrants walking around aimlessly in the heat studying their "Fla Voter's '08 guides"..... I can envision Texas passing slots....I can envision Frank stopping construction immediately on GeePee, and serving a wealthier population base that towers over miami.....I can envision GeePee resembling Delta Downs or the original EVD, while LS thrives......I can BS with teh best of em... ;)

Magna's new priority s/b to see if they can keep the better geepee horsemen's attention (those from KY, NY) longer than mid MARCH. Seems they turn their backs on geepee and look towards Keeneland. Right now geepee is a 2 and a half month meet, quality-wise.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ElKabong
I can see nothing but retirees and immigrants walking around aimlessly in the heat studying their "Fla Voter's '08 guides"..... I can envision Texas passing slots....I can envision Frank stopping construction immediately on GeePee, and serving a wealthier population base that towers over miami.....I can envision GeePee resembling Delta Downs or the original EVD, while LS thrives......I can BS with teh best of em... ;)

Magna's new priority s/b to see if they can keep the better geepee horsemen's attention (those from KY, NY) longer than mid MARCH. Seems they turn their backs on geepee and look towards Keeneland. Right now geepee is a 2 and a half month meet, quality-wise.

Im sure the whole reason isnt the lure of the ractracks in the north from a nice winter, Lots of these tracks want you in their stalls before the meet starts, Dont get me wrong, Im sure the money has a lot to do with it also.

[bobbytabb]

I believe they have rescheduled the Florida Derby for the first w/e in April, for just that reason. It will also make it a better spot for trainers since it will be a month before the Kentucky Derby. They ran a stakes race last year in April to replace Hialeah's Flamingo, but, the Fla Derby would obviously be the main draw for the heavy hitters. I wonder if they will let me set up my own tent, just like we do at Dolphin tailgates?

[cj]

As with most Stronach attempts, this one doesn't seem to be working out too well.

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=61163&subs=0&arc=1

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
As with most Stronach attempts, this one doesn't seem to be working out too well.

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=61163&subs=0&arc=1

What a funny guy you are CJ, ALL year long you have preached how bad and weak the 2yo's are,SO now you want to blame Frank just because there are ony 98 EARLY entries for the Florida Derby.Just because Nick Zito doesnt have anything doesnt mean it Franks fault.Its the fact the 2y's are weak and owners dont want to pay the fee's!

[cj]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
What a funny guy you are CJ, ALL year long you have preached how bad and weak the 2yo's are

Could you please point me to a single post I've made about the quality of the 2yos? Just one, refresh my memory, because I seriously doubt I ever said anything like that. Stop making stuff up to support Frank.

The reason the nominations are down is simple. The Fla Derby used to be the premier event in early March for 3yos. Nothing else was even close.

Now, its fighting with the SA Derby, Ill Derby, Ark Derby, Blue Grass, Wood, etc., etc. Even a non-billionaire like myself can figure that out.

[toetoe]

cj, didn't maryland's slide into the abyss begin when frank defrancis died?

[toetoe]

cj, speaking of bad trips, i see that zakocity, under normal circumstances a stretch as a 3yo in tomorrow's 8th, has 3 horrendous trips in his last 5 races. the other 2 are impressive wins. i know only vs. 3yo's. still food for thought.

[karlskorner]

An article in DRF "Lets get rid of arrogrance"

http://www.drf.com/news/article/61256.html

clearly points out that Frank Stronach has his people in place in Albany.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by karlskorner
An article in DRF "Lets get rid of arrogrance"

http://www.drf.com/news/article/61256.html

clearly points out that Frank Stronach has his people in place in Albany.

I've been saying this for many moons....NY State Sen. Majority Leader Joe Bruno's son is a paid lobbyist for MAGNA, last time I checked. Not too shabby, considering Bruno used to be THE champion for NYRA in the NY Legislature.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I've been saying this for many moons....NY State Sen. Majority Leader Joe Bruno's son is a paid lobbyist for MAGNA, last time I checked. Not too shabby, considering Bruno used to be THE champion for NYRA in the NY Legislature.
Like I said in "other' posts, MEC will rule racing!!. Ill bet all you guys are just shi--ing yourselves,Wait till you see "Bubba" as NYRA's main guy! ,For Magna to be able to purchase ALL of the NY tracks would indeed put him in top cammand,Would make Magna stock soar!!

[JimG]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Like I said in "other' posts, MEC will rule racing!!. Ill bet all you guys are just shi--ing yourselves,Wait till you see "Bubba" as NYRA's main guy! ,For Magna to be able to purchase ALL of the NY tracks would indeed put him in top cammand,Would make Magna stock soar!!

As a horseplayer, why would this be important to me? With all the exclamations used, I know there must be extreme signifigance. I just don't see it.

[cj]

Tom,

I guess you haven't found that info you made up that I said the 2yos were weak? As if that has anything to do with the nominations for the Florida Derby anyway...:rolleyes:

Can I borrow your Magna pom poms the next time I go to the track? Just please, no cheerleader outfit!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Like I said in "other' posts, MEC will rule racing!!. Ill bet all you guys are just shi--ing yourselves,Wait till you see "Bubba" as NYRA's main guy! ,For Magna to be able to purchase ALL of the NY tracks would indeed put him in top cammand,Would make Magna stock soar!!

It would not be a good thing. Much like Magna's stock price, Magna's cumulative performance to date (and he's been at this many years now) has been at best a push.

NYRA has had its share of woes very recently, but if we are to talk about cumulative performance, as I just did regarding Magna, we will see that NYRA has been running the show since the early 1970s. To this very day, just as they have been for most of their tenure, NYRA is STILL putting on the best LIVE RACING product in the nation. This alone should keep NYRA in charge, unless of course some underhanded dirty dealings were to take place. But, since Frank says he wants an even playing field when it comes to the NYRA franchise, I'm sure he'll play by the rules.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Ill bet all you guys are just shi--ing yourselves,

The only reason I'd shit myself is if MEC were to go bellyup and leave all those racetracks to fend for themselves. How many might be shut down? How many people might lose their jobs?

You think one entity owning all those racetracks is a good thing? I don't. And don't tell me MEC can never go out of business. They said the same thing about Enron once....

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
Tom,

I guess you haven't found that info you made up that I said the 2yos were weak? As if that has anything to do with the nominations for the Florida Derby anyway...:rolleyes:

Can I borrow your Magna pom poms the next time I go to the track? Just please, no cheerleader outfit!

No Cj I havent, I cant look at 2k plus thread, All I am saying is you cant blame Stronach for that!

[karlskorner]

Frank Stronach sort of reminds me of Maj. Winchester in M*A*S*H and I quote " I do one thing at a time, I do it well and than I move on ".

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
The only reason I'd shit myself is if MEC were to go bellyup and leave all those racetracks to fend for themselves. How many might be shut down? How many people might lose their jobs?

You think one entity owning all those racetracks is a good thing? I don't. And don't tell me MEC can never go out of business. They said the same thing about Enron once....

Enron was full of crooks looking out for themselves,MEC at least had a mission, That mission is to have the best possible racing in the USA, They have given countess jobs and have tryed to build a racing establishment. IF Mec ever did purchase the NY tracks that would insure revenune and give racing more exposure, as MEC will promote.He will then be the power.Going bellyup is a good point!..I mean how much can you spend..How much do you lose before you say..hey!

[PaceAdvantage]

So you think one company owning all those racetracks is a good thing? Does anyone have an accurate count as to how many tracks MEC owns, as well as CDI?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by karlskorner
Frank Stronach sort of reminds me of Maj. Winchester in M*A*S*H and I quote " I do one thing at a time, I do it well and than I move on ".

??????

What did he do well at Golden Gate or Bay Meadows or Remington or Thistledown, or most of the other tracks he's purchased?

[karlskorner]

As I tried to point out earlier, which is the most "logical" of the 14 tracks he owns to invest "his" money in ? The one's you pointed out or Gulfstream ? Do you really think he should start improvaing all the 14 tracks at the same time ? When GP is done and "slots" are in place he will move on using "other peoples" money. Name one other track he owns that he can turn into a "premier" racecourse and get a "return" on his investment. I am not sure anymore how many tracks are owned by Churchhill Downs, but I know one thing, they haven't spent 250 Million making improvements to one of their tracks. This year they spent a few bucks replacing seats on the 4th floor terrace with benches at CRC, which are the most uncomfortable I have ever sat on, they are made of aluminum with a 10" seat, when you lean back to get confortable you ass slides off the seat.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by karlskorner
Frank Stronach sort of reminds me of Maj. Winchester in M*A*S*H and I quote " I do one thing at a time, I do it well and than I move on ".


Simply not the case. He bought about a dozen tracks in warp-speed time. Only one of those tracks have had any capital put back in them.

Maybe if he bought ONE TRACK AT A TIME, improving the racing product and facility before buying the next, then your comment would ring true. Obviously it doesn't, as is.

Look at all the tracks MEC has bought and is currently over-seeing. Thistledown, Portland Meadows, Suffolk, Gulfstream, Pimlico, Golden Gate, Lone Star, Remington, Bay Meadows, Laurel....Be specific and tell me which track(s) Frank's improved the quality of the product on the track?

I'd say "none". If you want to say one (gee pee), I'd say that meet has always been THE premier meet on the east coast in the winter. (as opposed to Calder's 8 month meet, which sucks)... MEC has done nothing to improve the rating of gee pee, MEC can only fork it up.

[cj]

Originally posted by ElKabong
...Be specific and tell me which track(s) Frank's improved the quality of the product on the track?

I'd say "none". If you want to say one (gee pee), I'd say that meet has always been THE premier meet on the east coast in the winter. (as opposed to Calder's 8 month meet, which sucks)

GP racing has declined in my opinion since Stronach took over. Its not what it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by cj
GP racing has declined in my opinion since Stronach took over. Its not what it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

CJ, I think EVERY track has declined insome way or another,You cant blame Frank for the rising cost of shipping and feeding horses in S Florida not to mention outragous day rates for owners,The small guy doesnt have a shot, not to mention the big guys going broke,The caliber of horses coming to Florida must be worth the shipping,You would not believe how owners get padded bills!!..You have to pay them or you dont race.The small owner is what racing needs to fill the cheaper races!!

[cj]

Maybe if Frank hadn't continually played games with the Gulfstream signal the last couple years, the handle wouldn't have dropped, and the purses would have went up. Wouldn't that help the little guy? Frank doesn't care about you, I'm not sure why you are on his bandwagon.

Your average horse can now stay in New York and race for more money than he used to at Gulfstream during the winter. That hasn't helped either.

[garyoz]

Pace Advantage wrote:

I've been saying this for many moons....NY State Sen. Majority Leader Joe Bruno's son is a paid lobbyist for MAGNA, last time I checked. Not too shabby, considering Bruno used to be THE champion for NYRA in the NY Legislature.

Is Bruno's son's name Kojo by any chance? In all seriousness, I've heard alot of different opinions about Magna's likely success in taking a run at NYRA. I think Magna is the single greatest threat to the wonderful tradition of New York racing. I hope that I am proven wrong by a developments at Gulfstream. I'm going to try to keep an open mind.

[RXB]

Originally posted by ElKabong
Simply not the case. He bought about a dozen tracks in warp-speed time. Only one of those tracks have had any capital put back in them.

Maybe if he bought ONE TRACK AT A TIME, improving the racing product and facility before buying the next, then your comment would ring true. Obviously it doesn't, as is.

Look at all the tracks MEC has bought and is currently over-seeing. Thistledown, Portland Meadows, Suffolk, Gulfstream, Pimlico, Golden Gate, Lone Star, Remington, Bay Meadows, Laurel....Be specific and tell me which track(s) Frank's improved the quality of the product on the track?

I'd say "none". If you want to say one (gee pee), I'd say that meet has always been THE premier meet on the east coast in the winter. (as opposed to Calder's 8 month meet, which sucks)... MEC has done nothing to improve the rating of gee pee, MEC can only fork it up.

I don't think Magna has improved the quality of racing at its acquired tracks. But then, which tracks can you think of that have improved their racing product in recent years, without the addition of slots or some other form of subsidy from gaming? Tampa is the only one that comes to my mind.

Churchill Downs has acquired Calder, Hollywood, Ellis and Arlington in recent years. Has the racing product improved at any of those venues? No. I played 'em all in the pre-Churchill days, and there's been no positive movement. Churchill itself did a good job of riding the simulcast wave in the 90's, but it hasn't done anything great for the racing at its acquired tracks.

The problems in racing run deep. Breeders, owners, trainers, track management and legislators have all played their part in the decline. It's a lot bigger than just the missteps of one man or one organization.

So, I would have to say that while Frank's gang hasn't delivered like it said it would, perhaps the only thing Magna is really guilty of is creating unreasonably high expectations. (Okay, and botching the Laurel rebuild.)

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by RXB
I don't think Magna has improved the quality of racing at its acquired tracks. But then, which tracks can you think of that have improved their racing product in recent years, without the addition of slots or some other form of subsidy from gaming? Tampa is the only one that comes to my mind.

I agree completely. But when you have cheerleaders saying Frank can basically do no wrong, you have to balance that with a little truth.

Nobody is really saying that any organization out there is heads and tails above Magna when it comes to improving the product.

But, conversely, Magna ain't doing a markedly better job than anyone else. It's a dead heat. They all kind of suck. But since NYRA is considered the best racing product out there on a consistent basis, I'll give them the nod as the best in the game.

[RXB]

I'd say the pro-Magna contingent on this board has a membership of one (McSchell). The anti-Magna contingent is bigger. So I think that any balancing with truth is required at least as much in the opposite direction-- thus my post.

NYRA, or anyone else for that matter, would have to take incompetence to a new level to ruin New York racing. And let's be honest-- NYRA hasn't exactly been a well-oiled machine itself in recent years.

One last point: New York purses have always been bigger than Florida purses. That's not a post-Magna phenomenon. Gulfstream has a better stakes schedule than the Aqueduct winter meet, but the maiden/allowance and claiming purses at Aqueduct have always been superior.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by RXB
I'd say the pro-Magna contingent on this board has a membership of one (McSchell). The anti-Magna contingent is bigger. So I think that any balancing with truth is required at least as much in the opposite direction-- thus my post.

NYRA, or anyone else for that matter, would have to take incompetence to a new level to ruin New York racing. And let's be honest-- NYRA hasn't exactly been a well-oiled machine itself in recent years.

One last point: New York purses have always been bigger than Florida purses. That's not a post-Magna phenomenon. Gulfstream has a better stakes schedule than the Aqueduct winter meet, but the maiden/allowance and claiming purses at Aqueduct have always been superior.

I just had to bump this to the top..Im LMAO at what you say RXB..I really think KARL is offended as you didnt include him in your magna comment.Im also wondering RXB if you do bet magna tracks from Vancouver? Isnt that where you are, I think you also posted about Hastings park?..He may own them one day!!.It really boils down to this, IF MEC did buy the NY tracks it wouldnt matter, you as the better will still bet the best racing has to offer,IT wont matter what you will have to join

[garyoz]

It really boils down to this, IF MEC did buy the NY tracks it wouldnt matter, you as the better will still bet the best racing has to offer,IT wont matter what you will have to join

The question is will it still be the best that racing has to offer if Magna begins to operate the facilities? I don't bet Santa Anita much anymore. And you're right, it is not because Magna owns it, but because the racing is not particularly compelling. But is there a cause and effect implied here? I used to bet Santa Anita almost every day pre-Magna.

[RXB]

California racing was in full-decline mode long before Magna got involved.

[RXB]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I just had to bump this to the top..Im LMAO at what you say RXB..I really think KARL is offended as you didnt include him in your magna comment.Im also wondering RXB if you do bet magna tracks from Vancouver? Isnt that where you are, I think you also posted about Hastings park?..He may own them one day!!.It really boils down to this, IF MEC did buy the NY tracks it wouldnt matter, you as the better will still bet the best racing has to offer,IT wont matter what you will have to join

Sorry, I don't follow you. What precisely made you laugh your ass off?

[karlskorner]

OFFENDED ? How could I be offended, sitting on the terrace at CRC in 80 degree weather, whilst the gentleman from Canada is trying to remember where he put his snow shovel. Hit my goal for the day by the end of the 8th race and went home early and there are only 26 more days before GP opens.

[RXB]

Actually, I need an umbrella in the winter, not a snow shovel.

Since you left after the 8th, I can lord it over you that I caught the $21.60 winner on the grass in the 9th. Ha!

[karlskorner]

I am happy for you, reminds me of a plaque that was at the entrance to GP, a quote from Joe E. Lewis ( I hope I break even, I need money )

[garyoz]

California racing was in full-decline mode long before Magna got involved.

Makes you wonder why Magna got involved. In purchasing an asset in a downward spiral, I would assume a savy businessperson would have had a turnaround strategy and you would expect the purchase price to have been deeply discounted to reflect the turnaround risk. Neither seems apparent me. BTW, I'm really not a Magna basher, just a frustrated fan.

I really like the job that management at Tampa, Mountaineer, and as of late Oaklawn have been doing. I think NYRA is holding its own. I am also interested to see what Phillie and Pen Nat are going to do with their slot subsidies. What these tracks have in common is they aren't owned by Churchill or Magna. Maybe the idea of economies of scale through the establishment of race track networks and seasonal revenue offset by owning tracks running at different times of the year don't make that much sense. The fact is that state regulation make race track management and race track economics track specific to some extent. Plus the cash flow of the industry is not as predictable as it used to be. For example, ten years ago, who would have thought that offshore rebate shops would be as key as they are.

Personally I hope the best for Magna, CDSN and the rest. However, I think consolidation through the closure of tracks (e.g. exiting the industry thorough economic failure) is long overdue.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Just wanted to let you guys know,Horseman are very pleased with the track..Wont be too much longer and you MEC haters will be able to bet with both hands, Frank is waiting!!

[Tom]

I'll be betting with both hands on Florida races soon.....Tampa Bay, and i might even take a trip down there this year. TB is one of my favorite tracks.

[Rpd]

Tom,

I just moved down to Tampa a month ago. If you are in the area, please send me a message. I would enjoy a day at the races with someone that's from near Victor, NY.

[slihawk]

Here comes TAMPA ....And look at the size of them fields!!! 8 of the 12 races have 12 or more entries!!

Rpd
Welcome to the area. Your going to love this track. IMHO the best little track in the country. Check out the picnic area, it's the best place to hang out. You can bring a cooler of "adult Bevs." and get a suntan to boot.
Regards
Hawk