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Maxspa
11-19-2004, 11:59 AM
All,
In my opinion one of the necessary ingredients for software success is a sound methodology. Many software developers are very concerned about the program's operation but fail to include a basic methodology that will give the user a fighting chance to be successful. The buyer who wants to get back some of his or her investment often wastes precious dollars trying to develop a workable approach. Often times the trial is disasterous, money is lost and the software becomes a dust catcher. Just ask any handicapper that fits the above situation and he'll tell you he doesn't want to hear any of the myriads of excuses. The program needs an experienced handicapper to develop a winning approach, The program doesn't pick winners, you do! ETC.
If the program had a basic methodology, just maybe he wouldn't have been in that losing position. Perhaps, he would have gone a step further and improved the basic approach that should have been included with the software!!
I'll conclude relating to you about a necessary Methodology that was for sale a few years ago. When All-Ways first came on the market, it was a complex operation and had many bells and whistles for the handicapper to become familiar with. However, very little info on methodology was included. Lo and behold a person, not associated with Fransden, recognized this need and developed a methodology for that software. It definitely helped handicappers use the program more effectively.
Maxspa

JimG
11-19-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Maxspa
Lo and behold a person, not associated with Fransden, recognized this need and developed a methodology for that software. It definitely helped handicappers use the program more effectively.
Maxspa


Was that the guy that used to run Mr. Pace's Place on the internet?

andicap
11-19-2004, 01:20 PM
Boy, Do I agree with you Max, but it depends on the sales pitch. Those -- like Ken Massa at HTR -- who don't promise to give you a black box or promise you instant profits. He gives you his upgrades for free, is available for consultations, puts out a monthly newsletter, and has a bulletin board so helpful members can support. Oh yes, he holds an annual seminar. Real expensive - something like $25 or $50. He doesn't give you a methodology because
he tells you upfront you still have to handicap and work to learn how to use the software. He warns you you have to spend time with it to be succesful and find out what works FOR YOU. 10 different users play with it 10 different ways.

Now for something completely different.
When I was a younger pup --- and much more gullible -- I got Dick Mitchell's sales pitch in the mail for Four-in One and then Five-in-One. Wish I still had it. Talked about how easy it was to make money, just let the program pick the pacelines and bet the overlays and wait for the $$$ to roll in.
You get the program and of course the overlays don't come in, so you go to a seminar. Ka-ching! Then he tells you you're losing because you're not picking the right pacelines or you're not using your head.
That might be true but nowhere in the sales copy did Cynthia Pub ever say, "You'll make a ton of money -- once you learn to pick pacelines and do some common sense handicapping."
At the seminars, Mitchell said, "The people who do the best with AllinOne are those who don't need it"!
For crying out loud!!! Put that in the sales letter and see how many queries you get.
:mad:

So Mitchell sells you the software then the seminars, then his tapes, then upgrades.
Now you wouldn't mind so much if at the seminars he lays out a clear method of using the program to make money. But no, it's all a lot of sample races, arguments over which lines to pick, arguments over who should be left in as a contender, etc.
When you get into one-on-ones the them, they say, "Pick the right paceline and it all falls into place. And, oh by the way, to pick the right paceline, you should be a pretty good handicapper to start with."

Maxspa
11-19-2004, 01:50 PM
Jim,
I purchased the All-Ways Methodology and it's packed away with other handicapping materials. I'm not quite sure who developed the approach! Somehow I think PA was involved but I'm not sure!

Andy,
I have the utmost respect for Ken Massa as a person and as a software developer. The post was in no way related to his HTR.I could list many other software programs but that is not my intention.
For example the creator of Multicaps on BRIS and Procaps on
TSN lists a simple series of steps he uses, that will help you get aquainted with his program. His 4 step approach is helpful and necessary for most users at least to start with.
In my opinion software developers would increase their credibility if a logical,quality Methodology was included with their software.
Maxspa

kitts
11-19-2004, 03:57 PM
Andy-

Gee. I get the impression you are not happy with the Cynthia Publishing software. I guess it was not much help to you. I have purchased a whole bunch of handicapping softwares over the years. Sometimes the developers made outlandish claims as they often do. I use none of these other softwares any more. I am quite happy to make bettimg decisions with the help of All-In-One V6. Perhaps the issue is whether the user gets satisfactory guidance from the software regardless of any claims made by the developer.

acorn54
11-19-2004, 06:18 PM
imo all a software developer can do is present the info contained in the bris/tsn data file structure in a convienient manner.
to this end i think nathan's equisim is an excellent program and at a very reasonable cost
acorn (guy)

PaceAdvantage
11-19-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by JimG
Was that the guy that used to run Mr. Pace's Place on the internet?

Wow. That's ancient history....LOL

JimG
11-19-2004, 07:41 PM
PA,

LOL. I'm afraid I show my age whether it is in cyberland or real life.

Jim

John
11-19-2004, 08:47 PM
Yes Max, most software are a tool that does the crunch work and if you are like me and you hate the Math.Software is good.

I have a few old paper and pencil methods that have some excellent elimination rules.once I know who has the best pace and speed,then I go to work. Just the other day Dick Dutrow ran a favorite with big figures that was absent from racing since Nov 5, 320 days ago.I have to much for respect for Mr. Dutrow. So I passed the race. This horse finished 4th in a six horse field
[ Horse needed the race.]

A bet saved is a bet won.

Light
11-20-2004, 12:15 AM
This is the $64,000 question isn't it?:Which paceline do you use.The second $64,000 question is which criteria do you use?

With my own software,it picked a $25,000 super last week using 4 of the 5
top speed horses of my system.I just had the winner,not the super.But it's not that simple. Because that criteria did not
pick any more supers for the next week with that criteria. Now you need different criteria
that I could back fit (if you used my program) to pick supers or any other
exotics. I have personally resolved the problem of which paceline to
pick.But I am still working on what criteria is consistetly profitable.It's taken
me a long time to come up with a solution as to which pacelines to pick.Which
criteria to use will require a bit more work.

In regards to Maxspa's point,I
think software developers seriously underestimate these two questions and are more interested
in a working "tool"they can sell.If they did have an approach with their software that procuced profits
with a clear methodical approach to paceline picking and criteria usage,I'm not so sure they would sell
it. Hitting a big super sporadically like mine,would just be bait to entice buyers,knowing that
there is no hard evidence to tell when the program is right about the next big super.

betchatoo
11-20-2004, 06:16 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maxspa
[B]Jim,
I purchased the All-Ways Methodology and it's packed away with other handicapping materials. I'm not quite sure who developed the approach! Somehow I think PA was involved but I'm not sure!

Been an All Ways user for years. Never heard of methodology. Would you please tell me where I can get more info?

JimG
11-20-2004, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by betchatoo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maxspa
[B]

Been an All Ways user for years. Never heard of methodology. Would you please tell me where I can get more info?

A guy named Mike ran a website called Mr. Pace's Place. He got in trouble with Frandsen Publishing as he was selling databases, with the bris data, along with the methodology. As I recall, he was into NY racing. His website was closed.

As for the methodolgy, its been too many years. I truly cannot recall what it was. I no longer have it as I have not used All-Ways consistently for many years.

Jim

betchatoo
11-20-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by JimG
A guy named Mike ran a website called Mr. Pace's Place. He got in trouble with Frandsen Publishing as he was selling databases, with the bris data, along with the methodology. As I recall, he was into NY racing. His website was closed.

As for the methodolgy, its been too many years. I truly cannot recall what it was. I no longer have it as I have not used All-Ways consistently for many years.

Jim

Thanks for the response. Thought it was something recent that I had somehow missed