book advice

[foul]

I am looking to buy two books: Handicapping Magic and Winning Without Thinking. Any advice pro or con. Always looking for new ideas or angles.

[PaulB]

I've spent a lot of time trying to make Handicapping Magic work and haven't been able to.
I don't know anything about the other book.

[Buckeye]

I like the idea of winning without thinking, sounds like it would be easier for me. :rolleyes:

The Handicapping Magic book is a waste of time.

I can boil it down for you:

If you like a horse and the odds are high, bet it if the public should not like the horse.

If you like a horse at high odds that the public should be betting, it's a trap.

I don't think it's healthy to assume too much. HM makes what I consider a fatal mistake: underestimating your opponent. In this day and age, it's not so simple to assume the motives of the crowd.

[Blackgold]

The best book for the money is Barry Meadows's "Money Secrets At The Racetrack."

I didn't get much out of Handicapping Magic when I bought the book, like everyone else, I already knew everything.

But one day I got a flyer in the mail about the software and it illustrated one of the disciples taking an entire superfecta pool.

I bought the software,and again, I already knew everything and began boxing the top numbers, with some success.

Then the summer of '03 I made a complete effort to understand everything, went over eveything again.

I've been making money ever since.

[midnight]

Winning without thinking is a conglameration of systems that I believe are geared towards U.K. racing.

I didn't care for Handicapping Magic. The idea of the fulcrum pace doesn't seem realistic---good in theory, doesn't work in practice. I'm sure there are others who make money with it, same as with anything.

If you want books on pace handicapping, try Modern Pace Handicapping by Brohamer or Pace Makes the Race by Schmidt/Hambleton, both of which I've read in the past month or two. In fact, Dick might have some copies of PMTR laying around.

[Jake]

"Winning without Thinking is a conglameration of systems that I believe are geared towards U.K. racing."

True, but this is a very good book. I really enjoyed his approach to handicapping, and worked to find and purchase his older books that he had written in England. This guy loves racing and handicapping. If I had known he was going to be at Saratoga with Suff's group, I would have gone just to spend a couple hours talking with him. Very readable, but it does requires an understanding of English racing.

I think handicapping has become strictly about system play these days--finding your spots, either high ROI or win percentage. System play like this requires a particular mental approach, which isn't for most players , but certainly pays off in the long run. Highly intelligent book.

[foul]

Thanks for the responses. I have the books that have been mentioned and am still looking. Appreciate the advise....I may look into Handicapping Magic.

[kingfin66]

I haven't heard of Winning Without Thinking, so can't comment on it. I have, however, heard of Handicapping Magic and have made numerous comments about it in various threads. Do searches for both "Handicapping Magic" and "The Master Magician" and you will find a wealth of info - pro and con.

[Zaf]

I read Handicapping Magic twice and thoroughly enjoyed it. I have the Handicapping Magician software but I do not use it.
I have my own database which produces the numbers that I am interested in.


I use many of the elements from the book in my handicapping. I do not like the PBS numbers as they are based on the DRF Speed rating. I still use the fulcrum pace concept and PPF as part of my handicapping.

ZAFONIC

[First_Place]

"The Handicapping Magic book is a waste of time.

Merely your opinion, Buckeye--nothing more. In spite of what this naysayer says, Handicapping Magic is one of the best handicapping books I've ever read. It's definitely in the Top 10, in my opinion.

"I like the idea of winning without thinking, sounds like it would be easier for me."

So finally we meet. You're one of the guys that contribute to my coffers on a regular basis. Thanks pal! Just keep on betting those high speed figure horses or whatever non-thinking method you use and I'll keep on smiling all the way to the bank.

FYI, your summary of Handicapping Magic is way too oversimplified. There's more to it than that. And you know it.

Your comments indicate to me that you just don't get the handicapping philosophy contained in Michael's book. That's okay. The less people using Michael Pizzolla's methods--in full or in part--the better it's for us that do.

By your hostile response it indicates to me you were looking for some 'magical' system--perhaps the title misled you--a black box method that'll pick winners automatically without using any personal judgement or requiring any talent on your part. Michael Pizzolla flat out states in the beginning of his book that there's no such thing as what you're after.

I'd have more respect for you--and others like you--if you politely said that HM wasn't your cup o' tea and leave it at that.

First Place

[kingfin66]

No need to get into a pissing match with Buckeye FP. I lost interest in his comments after his treatment of Bill Cullen in one of Bill's threads. He has also ripped HM in prior threads. Nothing new here. Give him credit though, he hasn't come into the other HM thread and caused trouble.

[First_Place]

"The idea of the fulcrum pace doesn't seem realistic---good in theory, doesn't work in practice.

Aw, come on now! What nonsense! I'm living proof that it does!

Just keep on thinking and saying that. Like I said: The less people using Michael Pizzolla's methods--in full or in part--the better it's for us that do.

First Place

[First_Place]

I didn't know that, Kingfin66. However, I'm not phased by the Buckeyes of the internet. I've out-pissed (and pissed-on) his type more than once. I'm very well versed in taking these trolls apart--both in and out of cyberspace.

I've spoken my mind and won't waste any more time responding to this thread.

First Place

[midnight]

Originally posted by First_Place
"The idea of the fulcrum pace doesn't seem realistic---good in theory, doesn't work in practice.

Aw, come on now! What nonsense! I'm living proof that it does!


And I'm liviing proof that it doesn't. It might work for you. It doesn't seem realistic to me.

There is more than one way to beat this sport, and no one way is the end-all and sole path to profits. Like the part of my post that wasn't quoted says, I'm sure there are guys out there making oney with fulcrum pace, the same as there are guys making money with "the sheets", 40 different software programs, trip handicapping, paddock/post parade inspection, trainer analysis, form cycles, etc. There might even be a few guys using the old Dot System and making money. It's all what works for the individual.

[andicap]

There are people who make millions on options trading.
Others have lost their shirts.

Some made a fortune in the market in the 90s. Others got crushed

Some do well with mutual funds. Others say the feeling isn't mutual

Some kick ass with bonds. Others kick themselves.

Some are real estate mavens. Others buy swampland.

Some specialize in metals. Others lack the mettle.

Some have a keen eye for buying downtrodden businesses and fixing them up. Others take a Bradley's, Jamesway, Caldor, Ames, etc., and turn their stocks into wallpaper.

Why should it be any different in horse race handicapping?

Substitute Pizzolla and HM for say, options.

Make the "Sheets" a mutual fund.

Etc.

[Lefty]

andicap, EXCELLENT!

[Buckeye]

I know what the word 'magic' means, and no, I didn't expect to receive any further understanding of it other than to see how MP would use this word as a marketing tool. What do you want me to say, go ahead and read it? Ok, read it. Maybe it won't hurt you and maybe it will. I'm not trying to win a popularity contest.

[andicap]

I read HM and do not use the software, PBS or PPF numbers, but still got some things out of it. I rejected the stuff I disagreed with and enjoyed the rest.

1. The fulcrum method -- I don't 'use it per se but learning it allowed me to fashion my own method that is similar in spirit.

2. Betting overlays. Buckeye glibly left out one of the most important betting paradigms Pizzolla recommends. Basically Pizzolla is saying some overlays are too good to be true which I think many handicappers ignore. This is a critical point.
Simply Pizzolla recommends looking at the three factors most people use -- speed figs, class and form -- and fashioning a quick opinion on how the public will bet based on a cursory look at the DRF.

-- Horses that look on paper that they should be one of the favorites but are not bet on the board are throw-outs.
-- Horses that look bad on paper -- those the public should hate -- but have positive attributes hidden to the public and are long odds are good bets.
AND the one Buckeye left out..
-- Horses that on paper the public should NOT be liking, but are being bet down AND have a good chance of winning by his methods should be bet with both hands.

3. Attitude -- I forget the exact formula but MP lays out sound advice for not obsessing on losing races.

4. The book also has good chapters on identifying different pace scenarios in a field and how to play them based on a horse's early and late figures.


For $35 is it worth it? That's certainly arguable, but the book can't be dismissed THAT easily.

On the downside, I wasn't happy with all the commercials for his ITS Handicapping Daily software. I did feel some of the book was an ad for his past performance program which is really no better -- and in some ways worse -- than BRIS or DRF.

[maxwell]

I think one can gleem a nugget or two from most 'capping books. Sometimes it is nothing more than a page or two, or even a paragraph or two.

I read Tom Ainslie's book," The Complete Guide to Handicapping Thoroughbreds".

While I got a lot out of it, the biggest nugget I got from him was an article in the Racing Form's "Handicapping Page". I guess he found new insight after he wrote the book. :D

When I have good weekend at the track, I reward myself by heading to the track store and check out the book section.

I hope I can buy a book or two this weekend. :D

[keenang]

First Place

I've spoken my mind and won't waste any more time responding to this thread.


Thank You Jesus!

Gene :)