AOdds & Thoromation (The Dynamic DUO)

[Partsnut]

AOdds & Thoromation (The Dynamic DUO)

In my personal opinion, AOdds and Thoromation was and still are two of the best pieces of software to come out of he Sartin Methodology, they have not and will probably never be surpassed by the newer Sartin software offerings.
One thing is for certain, both of these softwares when used in conjunction with each other and with either BRIS or JCP data files are far less expensive to use with no annual subscriptions and the pace and numerical projections are 1000% far more accurate then what is currently being offered . I also believe that the masterful programming of Randy Kovachs (AOdds) was a work of art and will not be replicated by any current Sartin offerings , past, present or in the future. I believe Thoromation is probably the very best Sartin offering and a personal favorite of mine because when used correctly with Aodds one can come up with some really solid plays.
I am partial to Thoromation because my late friend, Michael Perry freelanced the prorgamming of the animated segment of the software. I also would praise Randy Kovachs for his awesome progamming ability and as being a fine gentleman.

Hopefully, there are those fortunate enough to still have and use these oldies but goodies.
I would like to hear the opinions of some current users of these two software's.

[JimG]

I will comment that Randy Kovach was one heck of a good programmer and a very nice guy to boot! I still own and occasionally look at ( I do not bet the races any longer) both Work Horse Pro and Aodds Super Gold 98 when I want to follow some racing.


Jim

[Partsnut]

Thoromation Example Race AQU 11-22-20 R8

Here's an example of some of the Thoromation read outs.
The RAC file needed by Thoromation was created by AOdds,
The whole process takes 5-10 minutes.

Please view the attached file.

[Partsnut]

I will comment that Randy Kovach was one heck of a good programmer and a very nice guy to boot! I still own and occasionally look at ( I do not bet the races any longer) both Work Horse Pro and Aodds Super Gold 98 when I want to follow some racing.


Jim

Jim, You are an excellent handicapper and whooped my old butt on a few occasions, You had a knack for the turf.

Good choice of software,

Why not play the free contests on "The Sport OF Kings".
I recently placed in the top 10 in 2 finals and received 2 tee shirts, 300 tour points and a $50.00 credit account on "Horse Tourneys",
I invested $12.00 of the $50.00 credit on a PRX contest on 11-11-20 and placed 2nd. I was $1.40 away from first place.
I invested nothing and turned it into nearly $300.00
See attached file.

[JimG]

Bill,


I appreciate the thought but I prefer to follow racing as a fan at this juncture of my life. I have had my share of success and failure both in contests and in real time betting. I have about 7 or 8 pieces of software and I may pull one of them out if I want to follow a particular card for a day.


Only exception to the above is the NHC which I still support a buddy of mine who actually won many years ago. He always seems to qualify so I actually study the races hard one weekend a year. LOL



Continued success.


Jim

[Speed Figure]

I will comment that Randy Kovach was one heck of a good programmer and a very nice guy to boot! I still own and occasionally look at ( I do not bet the races any longer) both Work Horse Pro and Aodds Super Gold 98 when I want to follow some racing.


Jim
Are both of those programs dos?

[JimG]

Are both of those programs dos?


Neither one. Both of them are windows 16-bit (on the install) 32-bit otherwise.


Jim

[Speed Figure]

Never had the chance to use AOdds before! Always thought it was a dos program.

[JimG]

Never had the chance to use AOdds before! Always thought it was a dos program.


There was a dos version a few years prior to the windows version.

[Partsnut]

I will try and project the winner of RPX R-8 using Thoromation
I will go with "Tough" the top listed horse in my attached file.

I am using this projection as an example and will not bet any horse to win below 4-1 odds at post time.

[Partsnut]

I will try and project the winner of RPX R-8 using Thoromation
I will go with "Tough" the top listed horse in my attached file.

I am using this projection as an example and will not bet any horse to win below 4-1 odds at post time.

Ran 4th at 2-1 odds (No Bet):eek:

[fast4522]

AOdds & Thoromation (The Dynamic DUO)

In my personal opinion, AOdds and Thoromation was and still are two of the best pieces of software to come out of he Sartin Methodology, they have not and will probably never be surpassed by the newer Sartin software offerings.
One thing is for certain, both of these softwares when used in conjunction with each other and with either BRIS or JCP data files are far less expensive to use with no annual subscriptions and the pace and numerical projections are 1000% far more accurate then what is currently being offered . I also believe that the masterful programming of Randy Kovachs (AOdds) was a work of art and will not be replicated by any current Sartin offerings , past, present or in the future. I believe Thoromation is probably the very best Sartin offering and a personal favorite of mine because when used correctly with Aodds one can come up with some really solid plays.
I am partial to Thoromation because my late friend, Michael Perry freelanced the prorgamming of the animated segment of the software. I also would praise Randy Kovachs for his awesome progamming ability and as being a fine gentleman.

Hopefully, there are those fortunate enough to still have and use these oldies but goodies.
I would like to hear the opinions of some current users of these two software's.



Just read thread late, agree of course.
There were so many versions, or flavor of the year and thought I beat them all to death. The rendition that I worked was the EXDC, I thought the Paradigm part was expanded to more correct wording for thought. The question is was this the flavor prior to Energy or did a following one have hard copy like Energy did? Before Binders passing I sent him a PM and did not realize he was that ill till I got his response.

[crestridge]

So how does one obtain a copy of these programs? I'm kinda a "semi collector" of old programs. Is there a certain location (other than RDSS) to locate old programs?

[Tom]

Two threads today - this one and bucktron's one about novel ideas
go well together.

I agree that AODDS and T-Mation are great programs, and would add KGEN is my favorite.

The novel idea is to use TIMEFORM's adjusted times in the Sartin programs. I get good results even considering the older programs use fifths of a second. Of course, no program adjustments are needed, unless you make your own based on TF TIMES.

[fast4522]

So how does one obtain a copy of these programs? I'm kinda a "semi collector" of old programs. Is there a certain location (other than RDSS) to locate old programs?

To begin with they are not going to run on today's computers, those who have them "got them back in the day". I don't think many over at Pace 'n Cap are still using much of the old stuff and I think they are allergic to collectors.

[crestridge]

Actually, the only Sartin program I've collected is Phase III, I was a "client" for awhile, but didn't wish to spend $1000 for energy, etc. But I have numerous other old programs from Fast Fred to MPH, Probets, Personal Line Generator Plus, Fig Line, Weighted Speed Calculator, Pace Evaluator, Win Formula, odds and ends of stuff I didn't pay much attention to, but it's fun to check em out once in awhile. Most use Bris files. A couple I still use, Bev's Yeast, it's still good.

[Partsnut]

Two threads today - this one and bucktron's one about novel ideas
go well together.

I agree that AODDS and T-Mation are great programs, and would add KGEN is my favorite.

The novel idea is to use TIMEFORM's adjusted times in the Sartin programs. I get good results even considering the older programs use fifths of a second. Of course, no program adjustments are needed, unless you make your own based on TF TIMES.

Tom,

Hope you are well and feeling better.

I have been recently looking into Formulator with Timeform US and as it appears to me, that if you are willing to pay the price for these data files, it definitely supersedes the need for any software.
Thoromation and AOdds were great in it's day but as with most software. lacks the ability to see things like trainer intent, specific angles and diminishes ones insight and intuitiveness which I believe is paramount in the handicapping process.
Formulator with Timeform US is a one stop shop for the serious handicapper.
I guess that in this case, the price you pay my be relative to the results you get.

[fast4522]

Tom,

Hope you are well and feeling better.

I have been recently looking into Formulator with Timeform US and as it appears to me, that if you are willing to pay the price for these data files, it definitely supersedes the need for any software.
Thoromation and AOdds were great in it's day but as with most software. lacks the ability to see things like trainer intent, specific angles and diminishes ones insight and intuitiveness which I believe is paramount in the handicapping process.
Formulator with Timeform US is a one stop shop for the serious handicapper.
I guess that in this case, the price you pay my be relative to the results you get.

The Adjustment Bureau, it is the answer to the whole game.

[46zilzal]

Speculator beat the pants off of any Sartin program that came before it

[Vinnie]

Speculator was outstanding, however, I enjoyed Synthesis as well.

[Ted Craven]

RDSS = Speculator ++

[shoelessjoe]

As long as your talking about older Sartin programs I thought Synergism
was the best especially version 3 which has TPR numbers.

[Partsnut]

As long as your talking about older Sartin programs I thought Synergism
was the best especially version 3 which has TPR numbers.

Jeff,

Bob Purdy's Synergism 3 was a good program in it's day, but in my opinion manual input, is time consuming and cumbersome and would not be an option for me. TPR is only one factor in ones decision making process.

G. Wadsworth's Speculator was also a fairly decent piece of software but
was very similar and redundant as most, if not all of the Sartin software's are, both past and present. There certainly was a lot of them. In my opinion, there was very little difference in any of them.They also lacked any insight into angles trainer intent and connections and use the same numbers everyone else has access to.

Unfortunately a lot of the older software is no longer available due to obsolescence issues.

[fast4522]

These programs have something in common with us, yet we still seem to work.
A member Elliott Sidewater did a superb rendition a few years back around the Early Late designations that are also used in these programs. I found his logic / lesson very sound for today's use. Looking hard at these programs specifically when they fail after using them as you should as intended obviously the adjustment is the weakest link. Some attention to that combined with what Elliott Sidewater laid out might be the trick.

[shoelessjoe]

Hi Fast

I have talked talked to Elliott very nice guy, he laid out something in one the follow ups for using Synergism that works well.

Jeff

[hracingplyr]

Hi Jeff, where did Elliot lay this out? In the follow-up? I use syn myself alot.

Bob

[shoelessjoe]

Hi

It is in Follow Up issue 19

Jeff

[Tom]

Thanks, Jeff.
I'll have to go reread that!

[46zilzal]

These programs have something in common with us, yet we still seem to work.
A member Elliott Sidewater did a superb rendition a few years back around the Early Late designations that are also used in these programs. I found his logic / lesson very sound for today's use. Looking hard at these programs specifically when they fail after using them as you should as intended obviously the adjustment is the weakest link. Some attention to that combined with what Elliott Sidewater laid out might be the trick.

Elliot contributed positively to the Yahoo group (Sartin Alums) I moderated for over 10 years

[46zilzal]

Jeff,

Unfortunately a lot of the older software is no longer available due to obsolescence issues.

Unless you have copies of almost every one of them including the prototypes

[46zilzal]

Actually, the only Sartin program I've collected is Phase III, I was a "client" for awhile, but didn't wish to spend $1000 for energy, etc. .

I never paid a single time anywhere CLOSE to a grand EVER.

[crestridge]

When I first became a client (can't remember the year) but when I first became a client, the offer, if you qualified, for Energy was $1000.00 I don't have the advertisement for proof now, but I remember because another gentleman I wagered with, was contemplating a purchase. I must admit, it's been many years ago.

[keenang]

Yes back in the 80s it was a $ 1000. I never bought it but I knew a couple that did.

Geno

[shoelessjoe]

Hi Tom

Hope you are feeling better

[Partsnut]

Actually, the only Sartin program I've collected is Phase III, I was a "client" for awhile, but didn't wish to spend $1000 for energy, etc. But I have numerous other old programs from Fast Fred to MPH, Probets, Personal Line Generator Plus, Fig Line, Weighted Speed Calculator, Pace Evaluator, Win Formula, odds and ends of stuff I didn't pay much attention to, but it's fun to check em out once in awhile. Most use Bris files. A couple I still use, Bev's Yeast, it's still good.

Today I used a combination of 2 software products that are obsolete, one of them can no longer be replaced or copied and will not work on any operating system above Windows XP and in my opinion is the best piece of software ever written. I have these oldies but goodies on a great 500GB Dell XP Latitude computer. In comparison and in my opinion, it dwarfs all available software products I have seen, used or am aware of.

See the attached file.

[fast4522]

Today I used a combination of 2 software products that are obsolete, one of them can no longer be replaced or copied and will not work on any operating system above Windows XP and in my opinion is the best piece of software ever written. I have these oldies but goodies on a great 500GB Dell XP Latitude computer. In comparison and in my opinion, it dwarfs all available software products I have seen, used or am aware of.

See the attached file.

The lone speed in that race wired the field.

The nice thing about Dell's is they would sell you the reinstall operating system disk and a resource disk that had the drivers that came with your computer. I got Norton Utility's and it came with Ghost. Perfect for the XP computer that is for racing.

[crestridge]

Parts

I assume, you have models, for your energy profiles? Back when I was starting to be a client of Sartin, I utilized Phase III for my handicapping. I was able to model the energy # to establish which paceline to pick for analysis. Then I modeled the results of winners to the energy #'s. But man, it was SO time consuming, but for awhile, with 8F races @ Hollywood, Santa Anita, I was getting great results, and not with "chalk", but with substantial results. Then I hit Del Mar, and everything fell apart, I couldn't figure out what went wrong. Moved on to less time consuming software. But I must admit, it was so much fun for awhile.

[hracingplyr]

Bill, i recognize Randy gills software but where does the pace line report come from?


Bob

[Partsnut]

Bob,

The paceline comes from the contender report of "The Amazing Capper" which was and in my opinion still is probably the best handicapping tool that was ever written but is no longer accessible or available.
A registration key is need for each computer it is installed on. Being as the provider of this software and the registration codes one would need to install this software passed away in 2016. This software is extinct.

The software will not work on any operating system above Windows XP.

I am reasonably sure there few are still a very of us left that have and use this software. I would love to hear from those few users that still exist, if any???

[crestridge]

A.C. was an expensive piece of software for 2006, around $800, according to the thread about the program, here @ PA. Some heated words back then, also.

Do you, Parts, still keep a model for your energy #'s in the Sartin program?

[Partsnut]

A.C. was an expensive piece of software for 2006, around $800, according to the thread about the program, here @ PA. Some heated words back then, also.

Do you, Parts, still keep a model for your energy #'s in the Sartin program?

First and foremost let me wish all a very merry Xmas.

Every so often I play around with the old Sartin software and test new methods which never seem to work out for me or have any consistency. It keeps my mind active but I am really not a fan or proponent of the methodology. I always come to the same conclusion that Sartin, his methodology, software, and thinking are better served and reserved for his fixated, uniformed and diminishing group of followers. The Sartin Methodology is completely useless to me but if it works for you then keep using it.

I find modelling to be a fruitless endeavor.

I use BetMix, PaceAppraiser and The Amazing Capper exclusively when I am seriously handicapping.

[crestridge]

Very good Parts, I don't really use the Sartin either, but was just curious. You also have a Wonderful Christmas, enjoy this season of hope!!

[SMITHMW]

Does anybody know what result files this program uses to import into the program?

[Ted]

I used this method several years ago and it worked.



http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36096


As I remember there was another change which had to be made.


Race number 10 was listed a J, Race number 11 was K and so forth.


The J would have to be changed to 10 and the K to 11.


It was very time consuming.

[harry]

Hello
YES i totally agree with your comments.I live in Australia and have been studying Dr. Sartin's work for many years. Andy is a great programmer i remember him when he wrote Work Horse.
Do you have any idea where i can get or buy a copy of Jim Bradshaw's AODDS SILVER program. I had a copy for many years but somehow it got lost on my computers.
I wish you all the best for the future.


Regards


Harry Langford

[geroge.burns99]

Hello
YES i totally agree with your comments.I live in Australia and have been studying Dr. Sartin's work for many years. Andy is a great programmer i remember him when he wrote Work Horse.
Do you have any idea where i can get or buy a copy of Jim Bradshaw's AODDS SILVER program. I had a copy for many years but somehow it got lost on my computers.
I wish you all the best for the future.


Regards


Harry Langford

Dam....

Bringing 20 year old threads back to life I see...

:lol:

PS- With the stuff your looking for its best to go to paceandcap.com

plus half these guys don't need horses any more...they have wings now