Reaction to Bush Winning

[sq764]

Boy, Sec and LJB paint a grim picture.. What happened:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/election.world.reaction/index.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, here's another article with Euro leaders gushing with praise for Bush and how we are going to work together now....

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/041103/1/3o8sn.html

[Secretariat]

This isn't my reaction, but it is the reaction of many:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=389&row=0

Greg Palast insists that the Presidency lies in 200,000 UNCOUNTED

In Ohio, he says Blackwell wanted to ban exit polls because he knew they would show Kerry winning. But, the punchcards on the old machines, did the job, going into black districts. Spoilage of the cards as bad as FL..He says that 54% of votes destroyed by punchcard spoilage are black votes.

Also, if you run the cards through several times, the chads beging to fall away and the votes become clear, which is what happened in Jackson County, FL in 2000. The supervisor confirmed that he kept getting more Gore votes each time he ran through the cards. And the same thing now in Ohio.

He says Kerry should have gone after those punchcard votes....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4593347,00.html

[cj]

Sec,

You guys are really pathetic to believe this stuff!

[Tom]

I hope he is not starting 2008 already!:eek:

[sq764]

Originally posted by Secretariat
This isn't my reaction, but it is the reaction of many:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=389&row=0

Greg Palast insists that the Presidency lies in 200,000 UNCOUNTED

In Ohio, he says Blackwell wanted to ban exit polls because he knew they would show Kerry winning. But, the punchcards on the old machines, did the job, going into black districts. Spoilage of the cards as bad as FL..He says that 54% of votes destroyed by punchcard spoilage are black votes.

Also, if you run the cards through several times, the chads beging to fall away and the votes become clear, which is what happened in Jackson County, FL in 2000. The supervisor confirmed that he kept getting more Gore votes each time he ran through the cards. And the same thing now in Ohio.

He says Kerry should have gone after those punchcard votes....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4593347,00.html

Man you may be a bigger loser than Kerry is, at least he conceded... Congrats

[JustRalph]

Hey Sec...........

From the Great State of Ohio...........screw you!
Every person I saw voting was pulling the cards out and making sure the chads were gone. And the poll workers were too. How you can assume that 54% of spoiled votes were "black votes" ?

You are pathetic..............if you would have seen the polls here, you would understand that this state did everything possible to make it right. And it paid off. Oh, BTW, I hear that Mary Poppins actually voted for Bush!

[Tom]

Ever see that Monty Python movie where Sir Lancelot cuts off the other knight's arm and says that's it you're done. The other guy says No I'm not. Then he loses hi other arm and says he didn't, then his legs, and as SL leaves, the torso nad head lies on the ground screaming come back you coward come back! hehehe.
Sec is a movie star.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
This isn't my reaction, but it is the reaction of many:

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=389&row=0

Greg Palast insists that the Presidency lies in 200,000 UNCOUNTED

In Ohio, he says Blackwell wanted to ban exit polls because he knew they would show Kerry winning. But, the punchcards on the old machines, did the job, going into black districts. Spoilage of the cards as bad as FL..He says that 54% of votes destroyed by punchcard spoilage are black votes.

Also, if you run the cards through several times, the chads beging to fall away and the votes become clear, which is what happened in Jackson County, FL in 2000. The supervisor confirmed that he kept getting more Gore votes each time he ran through the cards. And the same thing now in Ohio.

He says Kerry should have gone after those punchcard votes....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4593347,00.html

This isn't your reaction? Then why have you posted it?

[Steve 'StatMan']

We still use punchcards in our reasonably well-off middle-class Chicago suburb. We even have new machines since 2000 that count for dupicate votes and undervotes and warn people of problems, so they can correct them. In places where the process is managed well, there shouldn't be any big whoop about punch cards. Plus I made darn sure I had no hanging chads, and that the important chad numbers were punched.

[Tom]

Anyone who cannot figure out how to push a chad out of a piece of cardboard is not fit to vote. I have no sympathy for these morons. And I think it a bit classless to assume African Americans somehow cannot handle voting. From the breakdonw of the voting, they obviously have problems backing a winner <G> but that is another story.
Hey, here is a thought, maybe if the left spend as much time fighting to improve the system as they trying to tear it down, they might get modern, accurate voting machines in place over the next four years.

[so.cal.fan]

Ralph?
What do you think won Ohio for the President?

[sq764]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Ralph?
What do you think won Ohio for the President?

Ooh, ooh, ooh, I got it:

More people voted for Bush than Kerry??

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
Ralph?
What do you think won Ohio for the President?

Number one reason maybe, We had a Same Sex issue on the ballot. This issue was approved by over 60%, to deny Gay Marriage, and outlaw Civil Unions. Most of those voters probably went for Bush. Remember though, Bush won here in 2000. Who knows? But here is what I have been in tune with.

This State is very much about common sense traditional values. We don't buy off on slick presentation and in fact are offended by it, when it is taken too far. I think the "L" word meant something here in Ohio. When you say "Liberal" in Ohio, often times it is followed by "elite" Kerry tried to portray himself as something other than what he is.

A great example of the slick presentation going too far was when Kerry went Goose Hunting here. People were laughing in the Barber shops and restaurants.

When Edwards told us John Kerry was going to make sure that people like Chris Reeve would be able to walk (if he becomes President) the laughing started again.

The other thing that I heard about was a backlash with the Hollywood types. People in Columbus in the last week were also laughing at Bruce Springsteen. He came to town and really went after the University vote at Ohio State. Kerry and Springsteen on stage at OSU was probably a case of preaching to the choir. They enjoyed Springsteen, but I don't know how much difference it really made.

FYI, Only 29% of Ohio residents have a college degree.

I would say one visit by the Bush Girls and the first lady probably outweighed the Springsteen visit by far. They played very well here in Ohio. Both events on Tv at night, the Girls and Lady Bush I am sure connected with many more voters. Especially moms.

Here is one other note that I have observed listening to local talk radio etc. The Teachers Union's in Ohio (Ohio Teachers Assoc. etc) took out thousands of ads on Radio. Every ten minutes you heard a commercial on how bad President Bush is for Schools. The ads all ended with "brought to you by the Ohio Teachers Union" etc........... The Teachers in the State of Ohio are loathed by a large majority of residents. You can't pass a school levy in 90% of this state. Home Schooling is very popular and very successful. The Teachers Union didn't help Kerry, in my opine. Backlash?

I can tell you this......... Kerry won the inner city per the State Tally by 54-46. He lost 60-40 in the Suburbs. He lost 62-38 in the rural sections of the state. Just one more note. Hamilton and Belmont County in the Cincy area are very conservative. Belmont County and Cincy are growing like crazy. A ton of those newly minted Ohio residents are moving across the river from Kentucky. They are working in Cincinnati. Or they drive across the bridge back to Kentucky for work. You are basically importing Kentuckians and they are now voting in Ohio.

In Cincy the Minority community is also loathed by the suburbanites. If you haven't heard about the Riots in Cincy and the "boycott" you may not be aware. Kerry started showing up in black churches in Cincy and Dayton.............major mistake. He already had most of those votes..............and he probably lost some in the burbs without realizing it.

[Tom]

I understand Bush is giving theses away FREE to liberals.....

[JustRalph]

http://www.homehorseplayer.com/polls.jpg

[so.cal.fan]

Facsinating analysis, Ralph.
I wasn't aware of the situation in Ohio.
It makes a lot of sense, and I'm sure you are right.
Makes me wonder why California and New York are so liberal.
Your comment about the liberal "elite" struck me.........here in the small town I live in, I don't know how the vote went, but I am sure Kerry got the most votes, but probably not the high percentage as statewide.
We are a small community of homes, priced much higher than you would expect. We are a safe community, and have a large percentage of church goers, but not all are fundamentalist Christians.
People have an average higher education and higher income.
I have worked on city elections and environmental issues here in town, and know most of the voters.
There is a large group of what you would call liberal "elitists".
Most are professional people, many are quite wealthy.
Knowing them well, they care deeply about issues, but not really about people. It's very interesting.
I know Chris Matthews on MSNBC has been really scratching his head over the map of all the red states, bordered by the blue states on each coast.
He likens it to two separate countries. I don't know about that, but it is interesting. You should send Chris Matthews your rundown on Ohio.......he would probably be very interested in your take on it.

[kenwoodallpromos]

2008 there will will be red states, and black and blue states. LOL.

[highnote]

I was born in 1959 and raised in Ohio in a little town called Salem, near Youngstown. After I graduated from Kent State I moved to Darien, Connecticut.

Ironically, for me, northern Ohio used to be owned by Connecticut. It was called the Northwest Territory. Land south of the Ohio River was claimed by Virginia and called the Virginia Territory.

I grew up near the border of the Northwest Territory and the Virginia Territory. The next town east of mine is called Canfield. It looks very much like where I live in Darien, CT. Very quaint. Lots of gingerbread molding on the houses. Architecturally, Hudson, Ohio, farther north near Cleveland, is also a good example of a transplanted New England town.

In my hometown of Salem, the houses were simpler -- not nearly as ornate. More Appalachian style -- bucolic. My county, Columbiana County, was reclassified as Appalchia a few years back. It's very poor. Very rural -- foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Some industry. Some farming.

The dialects of my border town where also split. It seemed that people either had a "northern" accent or a "southern" accent.

If you're from the Virginia Territory, you're more likely to have an accent more closely resembling the accents south of the Mason Dixon line and you'll probably identify more with Bush. And if you're from the Northwest Territory, you're more likely to speak with more of a "standard American" dialect and identify with Kerry. I use standard American dialect to describe the way newscasters speak in the North and Northeast.

Also, having grown up in Ohio, I know that new ideas that arise in the coastal cities take time to move inward to Ohio and become accepted. I think Same Sex Civil Unions is a classic example. I think someone wrote on PA that Ohioans voted against Gay Marriage rights and Same Sex Civil Unions. Eventually, all states will accept Same Sex Civil Unions of some sort. I have heard Bush say that he supports some sort of rights for Same Sex Civil Unions.

That said, it can also work the other way. Ohio is progressive in some ways. Rights for the disabled took root in Ohio before they did in the coastal states.

Now also, if you draw a line down the middle of Ohio. To the west, it is very flat farmland. Traditionally, farmers and individuals from the small towns in the farming communities are going to be conservative. Almost all of those counties in western Ohio went to Bush. The bigger cities, of course, went to Kerry.

So Florida and Ohio are very similar in that Southern Florida is a lot like Northern Ohio and Northern Florida is a lot like Southern and rural Ohio. It's easy to see why they are both important swing states.

Also, did you know that after Virginia, Ohio has produced the most presidents -- 8, I think? That's an important fact. It's just as important to be able to relate to country folk as city folk. You've got to be as comfortable eating bar-b-q with Billy Bob as discussing finance with J.P. Morgan. I think Kerry only felt comfortable with 1/2 the equation. Bush might not be comfortable with either one, but he came a lot closer to both -- hence he got more votes.

So it just dawned on me that since I'm from Ohio, but work in New York City, you should vote for me as your next president. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.