NY AG indicts Trump family

[JustRalph]

11:30a Press conference tomorrow

Rumors flying everywhere,

AG release says “National announcement”.

She’s been investigating NRA too.......

Best bets:

Trump and family

NRA

Trump Family businesses

[delayjf]

Demwits never quit. Republicans need to learn how to play hard ball.

[OntheRail]

Hey it could be Cuomo.... his actions did cause those deaths at Nursing Homes. :coffee:

[JustRalph]

Hey it could be Cuomo.... his actions did cause those deaths at Nursing Homes. :coffee:

Never. She’s in bed w Cuomo

[horses4courses]

Teflon Don.

His lawyers love him, and will make this go away until 2021.

[hcap]

Teflon Don.

His lawyers love him, and will make this go away until 2021.But the statute of limitations, no matter how law-erly they may be, will not go away. And in 2021, a sitting president he will not be.

I don't understand why the Trumpites are having a shit fit. The Supreme Court set the stage for the Teflon moron to slip and slide away to Leavenworth.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

Wait...so no?

All that for the NRA?

:pound:

[boxcar]

Wait...so no?

All that for the NRA?

:pound:

Now that the air is leaking out of Hcap's hot air balloon that sits on his shoulders, I wonder if he'll crash land?

[hcap]

Wait...so no?
All that for the NRA?
:pound:The Supremes also allowed Cy Vance to do his thing.
He is doing it.

Next, who in the Trump administration gave Kodak a sweet deal?
Investigations will go on particularity after he is out

https://youtu.be/xu0DX7LtEiU

[JustRalph]

They actually believe this will kill the NRA?

There is already a new organization ready to take over the NRA mission.

They have been around a while

[OntheRail]

Never. She’s in bed w Cuomo

You know I was being facetious... and I know your not. ;)

[OntheRail]

They actually believe this will kill the NRA?

There is already a new organization ready to take over the NRA mission.

They have been around a while

Just think if they spent a 10th of the time looking into the Clinton Foundation.

The NRA is Texas bound...

[jimmyb]

If he's trying to dissolve the NRA for lining it's pockets, I'd suggest he do the same with congress.

[davew]

I did not see the press conference.


Was the NRA making big political donations to all of the R's so they could get more federal funding?

[horses4courses]

They actually believe this will kill the NRA?

There is already a new organization ready to take over the NRA mission.

They have been around a while

Boogaloo?

[xtb]

They actually believe this will kill the NRA?

There is already a new organization ready to take over the NRA mission.

They have been around a while

GOA is a much better advocate of gun rights than the NRA.

[hcap]

They actually believe this will kill the NRA?

There is already a new organization ready to take over the NRA mission.

They have been around a whileThe "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

[OntheRail]

The "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

:lol: stop stop :pound: I can't breath.

Less guns and violence if the Dim's take control... the same fools that want to disband the police... free the thugs... turn a blindeye to anarchy and open the borders.
Oh man your a hoot... :pound:

[woodtoo]

The "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

Quite the opposite will happen, gun sales will SOAR if the dems cheat their way to the WH.

[xtb]

The "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

Obama, that is.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2150311/record-gun-sales-cemented-obamas-conservation-legacy

[JustRalph]

The "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

You are in a dreamland. How does this reduce guns?

In fact there are more guns being sold right now than at any point in history.

I might go buy a new one, in your honor...........

[Mulerider]

The "new"NRA" will not have the same lobbying influence for many years.Especially after the Democrats take back all three branches. Maybe gun violence will be substantially reduced to levels of other western civilized countries with much fewer guns.

How do you predict the "much fewer guns" part will come to pass?

[ElKabong]

How do you predict the "much fewer guns" part will come to pass?

Beta will skateboard up to your front door and pout & demand you hand over your firearms. After you beat his ass he'll do what he always does after fking up.... He'll go cry to his daddy

[fast4522]

You are in a dreamland. How does this reduce guns?

In fact there are more guns being sold right now than at any point in history.

I might go buy a new one, in your honor...........

And all those new gun owners are going to get up and vote commie, third rail is a unmerciful bitch.

[Mulerider]

I might go buy a new one, in your honor...........

Bought a Ruger MPR a couple weeks ago.

Didn't have a black rifle, but they seem to piss off all the right people so I wanted one. Put a Sig red dot on it, went to the range, and enjoyed it immensely.

Only problem is finding ammo!

[fast4522]

Bought a Ruger MPR a couple weeks ago.

Didn't have a black rifle, but they seem to piss off all the right people so I wanted one. Put a Sig red dot on it, went to the range, and enjoyed it immensely.

Only problem is finding ammo!

NATO rounds?

[davew]

Letitia James could be another VP potential for Joe.



64 million in 'fraud' ?


what about the Clinton Foundation with TRILLIONS in fraud and money laundering?

[Mulerider]

NATO rounds?


Yes. Found some online, but local stores are stripped bare.

[fast4522]

Yes. Found some online, but local stores are stripped bare.

A friend who passed on recently and I used to attend gun shows, often hard to find ammo and other items overpriced in store are found. Just saying.

[hcap]

You are in a dreamland. How does this reduce guns?

In fact there are more guns being sold right now than at any point in history.

I might go buy a new one, in your honor...........I did not claim gun sales would go down. I said their lobbying influence, one of the most powerful in DC would be take years to recover. As a thumb on the scale of legislation

The NRA Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association#Elections) for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is its lobbying division, which manages its political action committee (PAC), the Political Victory Fund (PVF). Over its history the organization has influenced legislation, participated in or initiated lawsuits, and endorsed or opposed various candidates at local, state, and federal levels.

The NRA has for decades sought to limit the ability of the ATF to regulate firearms by blocking nominees and lobbying against reforms that would increase the ability of the ATF to track gun crimes
.................................................. ....................

So knock yourselves out. Buy an A bomb for all I care, but politically it is an A bomb up right wing politicians rear ends who stand in the way of needed rational gun control legislation.

[stuball]

Are you saying the riots would be much safer if we had gun control?????????????
:lol:

[chrisl]

I did not claim gun sales would go down. I said their lobbying influence, one of the most powerful in DC would be take years to recover. As a thumb on the scale of legislation

The NRA Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association#Elections) for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) is its lobbying division, which manages its political action committee (PAC), the Political Victory Fund (PVF). Over its history the organization has influenced legislation, participated in or initiated lawsuits, and endorsed or opposed various candidates at local, state, and federal levels.

The NRA has for decades sought to limit the ability of the ATF to regulate firearms by blocking nominees and lobbying against reforms that would increase the ability of the ATF to track gun crimes
.................................................. ....................

So knock yourselves out. Buy an A bomb for all I care, but politically it is an A bomb up right wing politicians rear ends who stand in the way of needed rational gun control legislation.

The 60's were real good to you. So in your mind. The NRA is stopping the ATF from stopping gun crime. OK that is why the inner cities are a blood bath. Gotch Ya!

[Tom]

Planned Parenthood has resulted in more deaths in one year then NRA has in its entire existence.

And lobbies....grow up hcap, your third grade behavior is boring.

[davew]

Planned Parenthood has resulted in more deaths in one year then NRA has in its entire existence.

And lobbies....grow up hcap, your third grade behavior is boring.

hcap is representative of the democratic party followers

[hcap]

The 60's were real good to you. So in your mind. The NRA is stopping the ATF from stopping gun crime. OK that is why the inner cities are a blood bath. Gotch Ya!If you mean "inner cities like Chicago, the guns in Chicago are brought in from surrounding areas where gun control laws are non-existent or lax

Where Do Guns Used to Commit Shootings in Chicago Come From?
https://robinkelly.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/where-do-guns-used-to-commit-shootings-in-chicago-come-from

Out-of-State Imports

About six in ten “crime guns” seized by Chicago Police originated from gun shops outside of Illinois, according to a 2017 report issued by the department. Crime guns are defined by law enforcement as those that are “illegally possessed, used, or suspected to be used in furtherance of a crime.”

The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ranks Illinois’ gun laws as the eighth toughest in the country. The state requires citizens to have a permit to buy firearms and to report stolen or lost guns. Residents who want to sell their guns privately are also required to solicit a background check from state officials and to submit documentation of the sale.

No such laws exist in neighboring states such as Indiana, making them a target for traffickers seeking to sell weapons on the black market in Chicago.

[hcap]

Planned Parenthood has resulted in more deaths in one year then NRA has in its entire existence.

And lobbies....grow up hcap, your third grade behavior is boring.Whenever you TRumpites run out of steam on the topics before you , it is either Obama, Hilary, Hilary's emails or abortion:rolleyes:Chimp, you are out of steam and bananas.

Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States protects a pregnant woman's liberty to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction.

[chrisl]

If you mean "inner cities like Chicago, the guns in Chicago are brought in from surrounding areas where gun control laws are non-existent or lax

Where Do Guns Used to Commit Shootings in Chicago Come From?
https://robinkelly.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/where-do-guns-used-to-commit-shootings-in-chicago-come-from

Out-of-State Imports

About six in ten “crime guns” seized by Chicago Police originated from gun shops outside of Illinois, according to a 2017 report issued by the department. Crime guns are defined by law enforcement as those that are “illegally possessed, used, or suspected to be used in furtherance of a crime.”

The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ranks Illinois’ gun laws as the eighth toughest in the country. The state requires citizens to have a permit to buy firearms and to report stolen or lost guns. Residents who want to sell their guns privately are also required to solicit a background check from state officials and to submit documentation of the sale.

No such laws exist in neighboring states such as Indiana, making them a target for traffickers seeking to sell weapons on the black market in Chicago.

You are one funny guy! Still do not get it. Like I said earlier, I think the 60's were real good to you.

[jay68802]

If you mean "inner cities like Chicago, the guns in Chicago are brought in from surrounding areas where gun control laws are non-existent or lax

Where Do Guns Used to Commit Shootings in Chicago Come From?
https://robinkelly.house.gov/media-center/in-the-news/where-do-guns-used-to-commit-shootings-in-chicago-come-from

Out-of-State Imports

About six in ten “crime guns” seized by Chicago Police originated from gun shops outside of Illinois, according to a 2017 report issued by the department. Crime guns are defined by law enforcement as those that are “illegally possessed, used, or suspected to be used in furtherance of a crime.”

The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ranks Illinois’ gun laws as the eighth toughest in the country. The state requires citizens to have a permit to buy firearms and to report stolen or lost guns. Residents who want to sell their guns privately are also required to solicit a background check from state officials and to submit documentation of the sale.

No such laws exist in neighboring states such as Indiana, making them a target for traffickers seeking to sell weapons on the black market in Chicago.

Pretty cut and dried here. Criminals are actively seeking firearms to use in crimes. The gun control has done nothing to reduce crime, and added more crime, by moving the first crime in the sequence to "another state".

[46zilzal]

Let the facts decide....(for a change)

[hcap]

Let the facts decide....(for a change)Did you say facts? That does not work here. I predict maybe a 5 to 10% rejection of Trumpism here after 1/20/2021.

Extreme stupidity is a difficult habit to break.:lol:

[jay68802]

Did you say facts? That does not work here. I predict maybe a 5 to 10% rejection of Trumpism here after 1/20/2021.

Extreme stupidity is a difficult habit to break.:lol:

Is see you have not learned from your personal experience. Keep trying. Old habits die hard.

[davew]

Grand Jury ends with no charges

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-grand-jury-ending-in-ny-with-no-charges-against-ex-president/ar-AAWL0Cu?ocid=uxbndlbing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cxwH5Ior8

[OntheRail]

Grand Jury ends with no charges

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-grand-jury-ending-in-ny-with-no-charges-against-ex-president/ar-AAWL0Cu?ocid=uxbndlbing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cxwH5Ior8

Have no fear... the witchhunt by the bitter bitch will soldier on... to hell with prosecuting any of the rampant crime that has plagued NY. From Asians being attacked too... subway attacks and car jackings. Let the murders rome free. All available resources must be funneled to get orangey.

Trump ot to sue NY AG for malicious prosecution.... hell all he needs to do is show her campaign ads to substantiate the truth of his claim.

[Elkchester Road]

Grand Jury ends with no charges

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-grand-jury-ending-in-ny-with-no-charges-against-ex-president/ar-AAWL0Cu?ocid=uxbndlbing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cxwH5Ior8

Once again...Oops.

"Narratives" have not done well...at all...the first four months of the year.

[davew]

has Letitia finally found something?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/letitia-james-major-announcement-prompts-trump-fraud-lawsuit-speculation/ar-AA1245hB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8b31b4c15b804e82801997ea18a44489

[jocko699]

has Letitia finally found something?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/letitia-james-major-announcement-prompts-trump-fraud-lawsuit-speculation/ar-AA1245hB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8b31b4c15b804e82801997ea18a44489

She thinks. Like all politicians from New York they are full of shit and get away with it.

Did Cuomo get sued for the killings in the nursing home. Asking for a friend.

[PaceAdvantage]

Civil suit, right? lol

[xtb]

Civil suit, right? lol

Yep, she's keeping a campaign promise. She was going to sue Trump for sumpin.

[mostpost]

Keep whistling past the graveyard boys. This is a civil suit, but it involves crimes on the Federal level. James has already turned over all her evidence to the DOJ.
Of course we also have the classified documents fiasco. Trump’s handpicked Special Master is not as friendly as he thought . FanI Wills is about to bring charges in Georgia. Someone is investigating the Fake electors scheme and who knows what else is out there. You guys are members of a dying cult.

[wisconsin]

Keep whistling past the graveyard boys. This is a civil suit, but it involves crimes on the Federal level. James has already turned over all her evidence to the DOJ.
Of course we also have the classified documents fiasco. Trump’s handpicked Special Master is not as friendly as he thought . FanI Wills is about to bring charges in Georgia. Someone is investigating the Fake electors scheme and who knows what else is out there. You guys are members of a dying cult.



There's always something "brewing" that will finally nail trump.

Keep on holding on to your hope, 'cause it's all you have.

[ElKabong]

Keep whistling past the graveyard boys. This is a civil suit, but it involves crimes on the Federal level. James has already turned over all her evidence to the DOJ.
Of course we also have the classified documents fiasco. Trump’s handpicked Special Master is not as friendly as he thought . FanI Wills is about to bring charges in Georgia. Someone is investigating the Fake electors scheme and who knows what else is out there. You guys are members of a dying cult.

You're the Washington Generals of the PA Off Topic. Never changes

[PaceAdvantage]

It's really embarrassing at this point...luckily people like mostpost have no shame.

[davew]

The more they do now, the worse it will be for the Biden family in a couple years.:lol::lol::lol:

[lex]

Didn't the feds already investigate all of this? And I'm to believe that the IRS isn't all over Trump's taxes on the regular and why not refer to NYS tax and finance? And why aren't the banks responsible at all if this is so terrible.

But if this huge fraud was going on all of this time I should probably not vote for the party that looked the other way as long as he was a donor. If Trump never ran for office and was still writing those campaign checks James would be kissing his butt.

[Tom]

has Letitia finally found something?



Yes, her pathway to an Emmy.

[davew]

I hope Letetia gets MILLIONS so she can give it to demoncrat non-profits so they can help the marxist communist causes like 0bama did. :lol::lol:

[elysiantraveller]

It's really embarrassing at this point...luckily people like mostpost have no shame.

It's pretty problematic for Trump though don't you think?

NY AG isn't bringing a suit it doesn't think it can win. The depositions have already been taken and Trump reportedly pleaded the 5th... a lot.

That's important in this context because he won't be able to counter any arguments NY has against him on those fronts.

[JustRalph]

https://hotair.com/headlines/2022/09/21/dershowitz-trump-should-push-to-disqualify-letitia-james-n498243

Very good points by Dershowitz

[myohmyjustify]

Why is Tish James doing this?

Maybe this is the reason:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/09/13/poll-republican-michael-henry-ahead-letitia-james-new-york-attorney-general-race/


Republican challenger Michael Henry has a slight lead ahead of New York Attorney General Letitia James (D), according to a recent poll (https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/ag-surveys-0913/). Henry is polling (https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/ag-surveys-0913/) at 44.2 percent among likely New York general election voters, compared to James’ 43 percent.
“This is a winnable race. We have to keep our energy high & keep telling our neighbors and friends to vote in November,” Henry tweeted (https://twitter.com/michaelhenry4ag/status/1569807625750994945).

[lamboguy]

i have no idea what the outcome of this case will be other than i am sure that Trump won't be handing over any money at all in the end, something that Ms. James knows ahead of time.

she didn't put up any of her own money, she fleeced the taxpayers of New York out of their money for the past 3 years, probably the cost in the vicinity of $30 million or more. this is happening while the business's throughout the city of New York have to close up early because their workers are afraid to take a subway late in the evening. in turn, because the business has to close early, they don't pay as much in taxes to fund this bullshit. the government wastes your money on garbage.

this lady is using this case to gain headlines in order to get her ass re-elected so that she can do more of the same for another term.

i really don't care if Trump is guilty or innocent of this or any of the other cases against him now. its really time to let go of the past and move on. from what i see, Laticia James is the real criminal in this matter. the people of New York need to place their money into protective custody before the whole state gets carried out and falls down just like Niagra Falls.

[Stevecsd2]

When I watched the news this morning the attorney general was claiming fraud on loans using one of Trump's properties as collateral. She said Trump claimed the office or living space was 30,000 square feet, but she said it was really 10,000 square feet. This doesn't even pass the smell test. You don't think banks know exactly how many square feet a property is that they are reviewing for a loan. They would either send an appraiser to the property or use existing ones from a neutral third party. If the appraiser or third party appraiser lied, they would be on the hook for civil or criminal actions.

If the rest of her case is like this she's going to lose.

[JustRalph]

When I watched the news this morning the attorney general was claiming fraud on loans using one of Trump's properties as collateral. She said Trump claimed the office or living space was 30,000 square feet, but she said it was really 10,000 square feet. This doesn't even pass the smell test. You don't think banks know exactly how many square feet a property is that they are reviewing for a loan. They would either send an appraiser to the property or use existing ones from a neutral third party. If the appraiser or third party appraiser lied, they would be on the hook for civil or criminal actions.

If the rest of her case is like this she's going to lose.

Gotta agree. There are built in rules of doing business that should have caught that discrepancy. Unless somebody took a bribe or just plain screwed up……no way a building is misrepresented by that much.

Commercial real estate usually gets more than one appraisal on big deals. How this kind of thing could have happen , who knows?

Insurance inspectors should have it caught it too. Every year my building gets 2 insurance inspections. One at renewal and one at the mid point of the 12 month policy period.

[davew]

only a demoncrat would think a major lender would not follow their fiduciary duty.

Letitia needs bump for her campaign.

[mostpost]

Didn't the feds already investigate all of this? And I'm to believe that the IRS isn't all over Trump's taxes on the regular and why not refer to NYS tax and finance? And why aren't the banks responsible at all if this is so terrible.

But if this huge fraud was going on all of this time I should probably not vote for the party that looked the other way as long as he was a donor. If Trump never ran for office and was still writing those campaign checks James would be kissing his butt.

Geez, Are you dense! The banks were the ones being defrauded.

[davew]

Geez, Are you dense! The banks were the ones being defrauded.

and yet they were not .... alleged loans were paid in full and bankers were not complaining



maybe you could give us the msnbc explanation

[mostpost]

When I watched the news this morning the attorney general was claiming fraud on loans using one of Trump's properties as collateral. She said Trump claimed the office or living space was 30,000 square feet, but she said it was really 10,000 square feet. This doesn't even pass the smell test. You don't think banks know exactly how many square feet a property is that they are reviewing for a loan. They would either send an appraiser to the property or use existing ones from a neutral third party. If the appraiser or third party appraiser lied, they would be on the hook for civil or criminal actions.

If the rest of her case is like this she's going to lose.

Apparently the banks do no such thing.

[mostpost]

and yet they were not .... alleged loans were paid in full and bankers were not complaining



maybe you could give us the msnbc explanation
I don’t know if that’s true or not. The crime is that Trump misrepresented the value of his properties in order to obtain larger loans at more favorable rates. That is illegal. As for the banks doing due diligence, if Trump was a favored customer they may have just taken his word-dumb as that may be.

[baconswitchfarm]

I don’t know if that’s true or not. The crime is that Trump misrepresented the value of his properties in order to obtain larger loans at more favorable rates. That is illegal. As for the banks doing due diligence, if Trump was a favored customer they may have just taken his word-dumb as that may be.






if it is illegal , she would be charging him. If it was a civil issue ,the banks would be suing him. This is the weakest shit anyone has tried yet. Your defense of this is almost as bad as when you said it is no big deal Biden raped his daughter in the shower for years.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's pretty problematic for Trump though don't you think?Everything has been a problem for Trump since he decided to run and win in 2015-2016.

[Tom]

if it is illegal , she would be charging him. If it was a civil issue ,the banks would be suing him. This is the weakest shit anyone has tried yet. Your defense of this is almost as bad as when you said it is no big deal Biden raped his daughter in the shower for years.

Is the bank he allegedly defrauded the STEELE National Bank? :rolleyes:

[MargieRose]

I don’t know if that’s true or not. The crime is that Trump misrepresented the value of his properties in order to obtain larger loans at more favorable rates. That is illegal. As for the banks doing due diligence, if Trump was a favored customer they may have just taken his word-dumb as that may be.There was a time when banks were giving "no-income-verification" mortgages. If one's credit rating was decent, banks took on the risk. A bank loan is always a RISK to the bank. "Rates," more favorable or less so, are based on credit rating; property value usually plays a lesser roll.

Whatever the basis for a bank's decision to grant a loan, their only concern is that the CONTRACT be honored, i.e. paid in full, even if not on time. Banks renegotiate loans, when necessary, and even if ultimately not paid in full, they don't (and can't) bring a "criminal" case against you for a bad debt. Debtors' prison has long been defunct. What they can do is confiscate the "collateral" (the properties) that the loan was based on. The recovery value of the properties would be at present value, not what its value was determined to be at the time of the loan. Real estate values fluctuate almost on a daily basis. That is it!

In reality, James' claim for bank fraud is none of her business, even if true. A contract was agreed upon, the debt was, apparently, paid, and both parties had no complaints, misrepresentations, if any, or not.

[elysiantraveller]

There was a time when banks were giving "no-income-verification" mortgages. If one's credit rating was decent, banks took on the risk. A bank loan is always a RISK to the bank. "Rates," more favorable or less so, are based on credit rating; property value usually plays a lesser roll.

Whatever the basis for a bank's decision to grant a loan, their only concern is that the CONTRACT be honored, i.e. paid in full, even if not on time. Banks renegotiate loans, when necessary, and even if ultimately not paid in full, they don't (and can't) bring a "criminal" case against you for a bad debt. Debtors' prison has long been defunct. What they can do is confiscate the "collateral" (the properties) that the loan was based on. The recovery value of the properties would be at present value, not what its value was determined to be at the time of the loan. Real estate values fluctuate almost on a daily basis. That is it!

In reality, James' claim for bank fraud is none of her business, even if true. A contract was agreed upon, the debt was, apparently, paid, and both parties had no complaints, misrepresentations, if any, or not.

That's not how literally any of this actually works.

Not directly entirely at you but there is a serious lack of understanding on display here on how lenders and the lending process in general works.

[MargieRose]

That's not how literally any of this actually works.

Not directly entirely at you but there is a serious lack of understanding on display here on how lenders and the lending process in general works.Actually, since you are involved with bank loans, I was thinking of what your input would be, when I wrote this. Please explain how it does work.

[elysiantraveller]

Actually, since you are involved with bank loans, I was thinking of what your input would be, when I wrote this. Please explain how it does work.

If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.

[davew]

If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.

How about if a couple pages of a disclaimer is included basically saying that we have valued our assets as we consider their worth. Many of these properties are unique and difficult to get comparables on. Please have your lawyers and appraisers do your own evaluations.

[elysiantraveller]

How about if a couple pages of a disclaimer is included basically saying that we have valued our assets as we consider their worth. Many of these properties are unique and difficult to get comparables on. Please have your lawyers and appraisers do your own evaluations.

Sure there could be some interpretation on the disclosures. That's a fair point but generally speaking the most boilerplate disclosures are going to have affidavits stating the values being used are consistent with other financial records like taxes, other lines, etc. If they aren't the lender itself is creating some exposure for itself.

I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.

Also that Trump pleading the 5th a lot makes it significantly harder to prove criminal liability but vis a vis makes it much easier to prove a civil case.

[jay68802]

I own some storage units, 5 buildings have a total of 100 separate units. This year I am going to pay property taxes on a valuation of $300,000.00. I have been offered $550,000.00 for the same property. The bank said they would loan me $610,000.00 with the property as collateral. What is the value of my property?

[MargieRose]

If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.IF any of which you listed actually occurred, why aren't the "hurt" parties being deposed (assuming they haven't been)? Wouldn't they have to provide the actual documents that were submitted to them as evidence?

Maybe this is the real impetus for the FBI raid of Trump's Mar-a-largo residence. They did take his tax records; probably all of his personal business records, including privileged records, as well.

Whatever! In the grand scheme of things, this whole debacle is clearly petty revenge.

[elysiantraveller]

IF any of which you listed actually occurred, why aren't the "hurt" parties being deposed (assuming they haven't been)? Wouldn't they have to provide the actual documents that were submitted to them as evidence? :1:

Maybe this is the real impetus for the FBI raid of Trump's Mar-a-largo residence. They did take his tax records; probably all of his personal business records, including privileged records, as well. :2:

Whatever! In the grand scheme of things, this whole debacle is clearly petty revenge.

I would assume most have been deposed. We know for a fact most in Trump's orbit have been.

[Poindexter]

If I request documents and am provided with false ones you've committed fraud.

Regardless of repayment fraud has been committed.

Regardless of whether or not I did my due diligence fraud was committed.

I'm too lazy to look in to the specifics of what happened here but if tax returns were provided to lenders that differ from the ones provided to the IRS thats as open/shut as it gets.


Now I am using the assumption that the loan was paid in full as was supposedly claimed by Donald Trump.

To bring up a case of fraud, doesn't somebody have to be wronged? If Trump took out loans and paid them back as he claims, who was wronged? Are you going to argue that they only received 4% interest instead of 6% interest? Has anyone ever heard of someone commiting fraud on a satisfied debt. Or is this the get Donald Trump rule? By the way, I wonder how many prominent wealthy democrats are out there that may have fudged numbers on some loans. My guess is quite a few.

Two other allegations were that he received benefits of lower insurance premiums and suposedly tax advantages by overstating his assets. Not really understanding the insurance company aspect at all so I won't comment on it. Regarding taxes, isn't that between him and the IRS. Moreover why is NY entitled to 250 million dollars. Are they the new mob or maybe they want to be reimubursed for the amount of money they wasted so they can try and make Trump look bad?

Regarding NY AG bring up a case she doesn't think she can win. They already won. Doesn't matter what the outcome of the case is. When it is the lead story on ABC nightly news that Donald Trump is a fraud that sinks into a lot of heads. You are appearently oblivious to the games that the Demoncrats have been playing since the day he shocked them and became president. To this man's credit he remained incredibly strong throughout it all. Half the folks dishing out the dirt would have killed themselves if they were subjected to half of what he was subjected to.

[xtb]

I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.



Letitia James doesn't have to win this case, it just has to last until the election. She promised to "get Trump" during her last campaign and to date, has failed. Time is running out and she is behind in the polls.

[Tom]

If Trump actually did shoot someone in Times Square, BY wouls let him out without bail and let him keep the gun.

That is all you need to know about Letitiia. That and she ran on nailing Trump.

:popcorn:

[JustRalph]

Letitia James doesn't have to win this case, it just has to last until the election. She promised to "get Trump" during her last campaign and to date, has failed. Time is running out and she is behind in the polls.

Ding!

[elysiantraveller]

Now I am using the assumption that the loan was paid in full as was supposedly claimed by Donald Trump.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.

[fast4522]

I don’t know if that’s true or not. The crime is that Trump misrepresented the value of his properties in order to obtain larger loans at more favorable rates. That is illegal. As for the banks doing due diligence, if Trump was a favored customer they may have just taken his word-dumb as that may be.

You have zero knowledge about big money and banks, most big bank deals are done in the last couple of months at the end of the year. Much can be said about the sweetheart deals put together by the banker just to move a larger note. There is big trouble for the people who do not move enough money. Banks are the absolute last sector that I feel sorry for.

[JustRalph]

I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.

You’re exactly right. The fraud occurs at application and signing.

For you Bravo fans, this is exactly what put Teresa Juidice and her Husband in prison.

[MargieRose]

I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I don't want to spend a ton of time on it but to give you a brief response;

What happens to the loans is largely irrelevant. Trump may claim he paid them and maybe he did maybe he didn't... doesnt matter... the fraud is the act prior to the loan being executed if that occurred.

Simple non-finance example; I claim to be a doctor but I'm not. I Tell you I'm a doctor and then perform a surgery. No matter the outcome of the surgery, live, die, heal, get sicker... you can sue the hell out of me because I lied to you.

Fraud works on the same principles and even if the lenders don't bring the suit the state reserves the right to bring them as well. At least they could in Michigan and finance is significantly more regulated in New York.Bottom line: no bank, most especially at the level of the types of loans that someone like mega-builder Trump would be requesting, would not cross every *t* and dot every *i* when making the deal, and of all banks, certainly not a bank like Deutsche Bank (The bank's network spans 58 countries with a large presence in Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank)).

How many banks have ever sued Trump for fraud? Zero!

AG James can attempt to pull off this persecution because NY has a law on the books that allows her intervene at her discretion, even when no one else is interested. This is not the case in all states. She is clearly a bitter bitch with an agenda!

Bottom-bottom line...it is stupid to believe that this is anything more than just another gross witch-hunt. Will you ever learn??

[MargieRose]

You’re exactly right. The fraud occurs at application and signing.

For you Bravo fans, this is exactly what put Teresa Juidice and her Husband in prison.Who initiated the law suit?

I don't see the comparison...

Why Teresa and Joe Giudice Are Being Sent to Jail (https://people.com/crime/teresa-joe-giudice-sentenced-to-jail-why-theyre-going-to-prison/)

[davew]

I don't have a lot to say on this case just I find it hard to believe NY AG brings this suit if they don't think can win.



This was her campaign advertisement 4 years ago. What do they call it when they convict someone before they find a crime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yj0NKSsuU

[garyscpa]

This was her campaign advertisement 4 years ago. What do they call it when they convict someone before they find a crime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yj0NKSsuU

She sounds like a domestic terrorist. I think Biden said something about that.

[elysiantraveller]

Bottom line: no bank, most especially at the level of the types of loans that someone like mega-builder Trump would be requesting, would not cross every *t* and dot every *i* when making the deal, and of all banks, certainly not a bank like Deutsche Bank (The bank's network spans 58 countries with a large presence in Europe, the Americas, and Asia. Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank)).

How many banks have ever sued Trump for fraud? Zero!

AG James can attempt to pull off this persecution because NY has a law on the books that allows her intervene at her discretion, even when no one else is interested. This is not the case in all states. She is clearly a bitter bitch with an agenda!

Bottom-bottom line...it is stupid to believe that this is anything more than just another gross witch-hunt. Will you ever learn??

The due diligence part is irrelevant. The lender should do it but can still be lied to.

Story time;

Several years ago I attended a closing for a borrower of mine. Standard loan with regular documentation, W2s, Paystubs, IDs, asset statements. All the normal stuff. Super easy loan everything is all good.

We're at the closing and I ask the borrower if he was happy his commute to work would now be shorter and he enthusiastically replied yes.

Lenders on regular W2 employees always perform a verbal verification of employment within 48 hours of closing. (Business owners we do something different) This isn't my responsibility and for some reason it wasn't done on this transaction until a few hours after we'd closed.

And he'd been fired 10 days prior.

So we'd done all of our due diligence except for one item. Been lied to. Funded and closed on the loan... it was done. Wires sent and checks cut.

Needless to say I wasn't pleased having been lied to directly to my face. My bosses instructed me to relay 2 options to the guy; get a job within the next 48 hours that paid at least as much as his previous one... or get a lawyer...

I did have fun making that call though. :)

[elysiantraveller]

This was her campaign advertisement 4 years ago. What do they call it when they convict someone before they find a crime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yj0NKSsuU

Are politics at play? Probably some.

But Trump pled the 5th... a lot... in his deposition. The burden of proof for civil suits is significantly lower than a criminal case.

It's gets extremely low when you continually plead the 5th under oath.

Two things can be possible at once; you not liking the NY AG and Trump being civilly and/or criminally guilty.

[MargieRose]

The due diligence part is irrelevant. The lender should do it but can still be lied to.

Story time;

Several years ago I attended a closing for a borrower of mine. Standard loan with regular documentation, W2s, Paystubs, IDs, asset statements. All the normal stuff. Super easy loan everything is all good.

We're at the closing and I ask the borrower if he was happy his commute to work would now be shorter and he enthusiastically replied yes.

Lenders on regular W2 employees always perform a verbal verification of employment within 48 hours of closing. (Business owners we do something different) This isn't my responsibility and for some reason it wasn't done on this transaction until a few hours after we'd closed.

And he'd been fired 10 days prior.

So we'd done all of our due diligence except for one item. Been lied to. Funded and closed on the loan... it was done. Wires sent and checks cut.

Needless to say I wasn't pleased having been lied to directly to my face. My bosses instructed me to relay 2 options to the guy; get a job within the next 48 hours that paid at least as much as his previous one... or get a lawyer...

I did have fun making that call though. :)That was your boss, the lender, who initiated the ultimatum. Had he not, would have the AG of your state gotten involved?

[elysiantraveller]

That was your boss, the lender, who initiated the ultimatum. Had he not, would have the AG of your state gotten involved?

If they hadn't the state could/would have.

In life post Consumer Financial Protection Bureau/Dodd Frank/9-11/AML (name one they all would apply) the state can operate as a plaintiff. I have issues with the CFPB and other regulatory bodies but this isn't one of them. It's actually a good thing.

If ABC Bank fucks me over the odds are I don't have the financial juice to take them on in court... but the CFPB and the State of Michigan do.

[MargieRose]

If they hadn't the state could/would have.

In life post Consumer Financial Protection Bureau/Dodd Frank/9-11/AML (name one they all would apply) the state can operate as a plaintiff. I have issues with the CFPB and other regulatory bodies but this isn't one of them. It's actually a good thing.

If ABC Bank fucks me over the odds are I don't have the financial juice to take them on in court... but the CFPB and the State of Michigan do.The bank or loan institution would have the financial "juice" to take your client on in court (insurance ??); otherwise, why make the threat? Or, maybe he would have himself gotten the AG involved. Still, not the AG sniffing around and acting on his own from which ever direction an offense occurred.

[JustRalph]

Who initiated the law suit?

I don't see the comparison...

Why Teresa and Joe Giudice Are Being Sent to Jail (https://people.com/crime/teresa-joe-giudice-sentenced-to-jail-why-theyre-going-to-prison/)

They falsified loan applications. She says he filled the forms out and she just signed them at his direction. That led to a bunch of other shit….including him being deported. They took a plea bargain. They could have been in much more trouble

[myohmyjustify]

Tell us who did Trump (and his Family) commit fraud against?

The banks? Other similar financial institutions?

FWI: All these Trump loans in question were paid off by Trump to these same banks and financial institutions he borrowed from and to whom Tish claim he defrauded.


Amazing, simply amazing... this stupidity never ends.

[MargieRose]

They falsified loan applications. She says he filled the forms out and she just signed them at his direction. That led to a bunch of other shit….including him being deported. They took a plea bargain. They could have been in much more troubleHere, too, who initiated the law suit? Was it the state AG sniffing around for some "juicy" crimes?

[chrisl]

When I purchased my last home. A red flag went up, because of deposits to my bank account from Xpressbet. They thought it was a source of income, I was not declaring. Thank you very much HTR...LOL

[xtb]

Tell us who did Trump (and his Family) commit fraud against?

The banks? Other similar financial institutions?

FWI: All these Trump loans in question were paid off by Trump to these same banks and financial institutions he borrowed from and to whom Tish claim he defrauded.


Amazing, simply amazing... this stupidity never ends.

And on top of that, Trump personally guaranteed the loans.

[myohmyjustify]

Here, too, who initiated the law suit? Was it the state AG sniffing around for some "juicy" crimes?


A state AG is supposed to look after and protect injured parties in civil cases. Everyday citizens injured by big, bad companies, to put it simply.

Looks to me that Tish James has failed to show who was injured.

Plus, it also looks like she is protecting the interests of big banks and Wall Street institutions. And better still, despite that, the Trump loans he received from these banks, etc., that he "defrauded" were all paid off.

Tish is a partisan hack who is on the verge of losing her race in November.

[myohmyjustify]

And on top of that, Trump personally guaranteed the loans.

Yes.

And I bet you are not a know-it-all and boring mortgage banker who has been lecturing us on this very thread and never mentioned that fact once.

[elysiantraveller]

When I purchased my last home. A red flag went up, because of deposits to my bank account from Xpressbet. They thought it was a source of income, I was not declaring. Thank you very much HTR...LOL

That would have been AML. (Anti-Money Laundering)

We have to source any deposit greater than 50% of Gross Monthly Income if it's going to be used in a transaction.

That's the baseline rule.

Some lenders are more rigorous than others on that though. The lender can just deduct it from the funds necessary to close. A UW could also ask for a letter of explanation if there were several and they were curious.

Mine wouldn't but we have a different thing we ask for that annoys the shit out of me.

[elysiantraveller]

The bank or loan institution would have the financial "juice" to take your client on in court (insurance ??); otherwise, why make the threat? Or, maybe he would have himself gotten the AG involved. Still, not the AG sniffing around and acting on his own from which ever direction an offense occurred.

The AG is literally tasked with doing this by law.

They would in my state and NY is waaaay more regulated than Michigan. NY-CA-TX then everyone else when it comes to regulations.

This clearly was a criminal investigation that they decided to go the civil route instead because of the lower bar.

As I said before they already have the depositions and Trump can't do anything about since he chose to plead the 5th.

He likely increases his criminal exposure if he wants to amend them to defend himself in this case.

[elysiantraveller]

Tell us who did Trump (and his Family) commit fraud against?

The banks? Other similar financial institutions?

FWI: All these Trump loans in question were paid off by Trump to these same banks and financial institutions he borrowed from and to whom Tish claim he defrauded.


Amazing, simply amazing... this stupidity never ends.

And on top of that, Trump personally guaranteed the loans.

I've already covered this. It's irrelevant to a fraud case.

Even Ralph and I agree on that.

I'm a lender. He's a cop.

[xtb]

I've already covered this. It's irrelevant to a fraud case.

Even Ralph and I agree on that.

I'm a lender. He's a cop.

Isn't a civil suit about proving damages? What were the damages? There was no risk. $250 million??? Looks good in the headlines for Tish, "See, I'm gettin' Trump!"

[MargieRose]

The AG is literally tasked with doing this by law.

They would in my state and NY is waaaay more regulated than Michigan. NY-CA-TX then everyone else when it comes to regulations.

This clearly was a criminal investigation that they decided to go the civil route instead because of the lower bar.

As I said before they already have the depositions and Trump can't do anything about since he chose to plead the 5th.

He likely increases his criminal exposure if he wants to amend them to defend himself in this case.You're not getting my point. How do AsG, any AG, know of a potential case/crime unless it is somehow brought to his or her attention; someone complains like your boss could have in your "story," or like you could have in your hypothetical account.

Is it typical for AsG to go sniffing around for crimes to keep them busy? AG James admitted during her campaign that she would be committed to FINDING a crime against a man that she despises so that she could get off on prosecuting him.

She is a disgusting disgrace to the whole legal profession and should be prosecuted for the intentional perversion of truth herself.

[JustRalph]

Here, too, who initiated the law suit? Was it the state AG sniffing around for some "juicy" crimes?

It wasn’t a lawsuit. It was a criminal complaint. They were indicted by a grand jury.

Her husband Joe was involved in lots of shady shit and some of the money was used to finance his construction business, which was being investigated for fraud if I remember right. Once they get into your books, and your bank records…..you’re toast

[elysiantraveller]

Isn't a civil suit about proving damages? What were the damages? There was no risk. $250 million??? Looks good in the headlines for Tish, "See, I'm gettin' Trump!"

Maybe... maybe not. I don't know NY law.

That said if he overvalued assets for loans and undervalued on tax documents NY can sue for the latter since the local, state, federal taxing authorities were damaged.

One number, at least according to Trump would have to be the correct number and would thus create exposure for the penalties associated with the other one.

It's also not just financial damages being sought here.

[elysiantraveller]

You're not getting my point. How do AsG, any AG, know of a potential case/crime unless it is somehow brought to his or her attention; someone complains like your boss could have in your "story," or like you could have in your hypothetical account.

Michael Cohen.

[Tom]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5994d06915d5db843587ce50/1592317867342-GF7GTEC5YR9NLD5XBNYE/lucy+and+charlie+gif.gif?format=500w

[nuckman]

If the New York AG, Letitia James, wants to investigate someone that would end up benefitting her personally, she should investigate Jenny Craig.

[jocko699]

If the New York AG, Letitia James, wants to investigate someone that would end up benefitting her personally, she should investigate Jenny Craig.

:lol::lol::lol:

[JustRalph]

If the New York AG, Letitia James, wants to investigate someone that would end up benefitting her personally, she should investigate Jenny Craig.

Classic!:lol:

[myohmyjustify]

I've already covered this. It's irrelevant to a fraud case.

Even Ralph and I agree on that.

I'm a lender. He's a cop.

There is and was no fraud. Even a lender and cop should know this, but you don't.

Who was injured by Trump in this "fraud" case again?

Again: There is and was no fraud committed by Trump, his family and his company.

[MargieRose]

Michael Cohen.Once a liar (in court) always a liar (in court) or, at least, perceived to be...even Judge Judy said so.

[lex]

Thinking a NY AG wouldn't bring a suit she/he couldn't win would be forgetting the history of that position. I think Spitzer was probably the best at it. Sue, settle because it's cheaper for the business and claim victory.

The only reason she would really let this get to court is because she can probably get a jury to convict him of anything. I wouldn't be shocked to find she wouldn't settle originally because she wanted this show and she could still settle after the election.

[davew]

Maybe... maybe not. I don't know NY law.

That said if he overvalued assets for loans and undervalued on tax documents NY can sue for the latter since the local, state, federal taxing authorities were damaged.

One number, at least according to Trump would have to be the correct number and would thus create exposure for the penalties associated with the other one.

It's also not just financial damages being sought here.

What states allow property owners give them property values for taxation??


TRUMP has said he will not settle because it would be like admitting he did something wrong.

[jay68802]

What states allow property owners give them property values for taxation??


TRUMP has said he will not settle because it would be like admitting he did something wrong.

Every year I get a property valuation from the state of Nebraska. Every year I appeal it. The State uses the size of the lot or lots, square footage of any buildings, and what they think the current price per square foot for like properties is.

The State wants a high valuation, I want a low one. We negotiate that valuation every year.

[elysiantraveller]

Once a liar (in court) always a liar (in court) or, at least, perceived to be...even Judge Judy said so.

You asked. I answered.

He did go to prison and opened Trump up to criminal exposure resulting in this suit.

[elysiantraveller]

What states allow property owners give them property values for taxation??


TRUMP has said he will not settle because it would be like admitting he did something wrong.

I'm not referring to property taxes.

[chrisl]

That would have been AML. (Anti-Money Laundering)

We have to source any deposit greater than 50% of Gross Monthly Income if it's going to be used in a transaction.

That's the baseline rule.

Some lenders are more rigorous than others on that though. The lender can just deduct it from the funds necessary to close. A UW could also ask for a letter of explanation if there were several and they were curious.

Mine wouldn't but we have a different thing we ask for that annoys the shit out of me.


I did have to write a letter of explanation. It seemed like no one had a clue about horse racing or betting on horses.

[elysiantraveller]

I did have to write a letter of explanation. It seemed like no one had a clue about horse racing or betting on horses.

Yeah...

Honestly, it's not terribly surprising. Had nothing to do with you personally just draws the underwriters curiosity and they want something in the file for if/when the lender goes to sell it.

Most of my underwriters wouldn't ask for it. Our favorite is a letter of explanation for increasing income. Freddie requires it if pay has increased by 10% from the previous calendar year. However, most of the time that is bonuses/commissions/etc.

Whenever possible I qualify people on their base salary/hourly wage so it's irrelevant... I'm not using the extra income.

Doesn't stop them from making me asking the dumb question back to my borrower and annoying the fuck out of me/them.