what would he have done?

[I LOVE THIS GAME]

what would smarty jones have done in the classic? NOTHING.It just goes to show you that he wasn't much like i have been saying he beat nothing.He would not have been able to beat ghostzapper on his best day. Where was birdstone that piece of garbage? i made a killing on that race.ghostzapper was an overlay. this horse is a train!

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by I LOVE THIS GAME
what would smarty jones have done in the classic? NOTHING.It just goes to show you that he wasn't much like i have been saying he beat nothing.He would not have been able to beat ghostzapper on his best day. Where was birdstone that piece of garbage? i made a killing on that race.ghostzapper was an overlay. this horse is a train!

Hey, Thanks for adding so much to the discussion?

[sq764]

Originally posted by I LOVE THIS GAME
what would smarty jones have done in the classic? NOTHING.It just goes to show you that he wasn't much like i have been saying he beat nothing.He would not have been able to beat ghostzapper on his best day. Where was birdstone that piece of garbage? i made a killing on that race.ghostzapper was an overlay. this horse is a train!

Well, let's compare who did more in their 3 year old year.. Ready??

[peakpros]

Originally posted by sq764
Well, let's compare who did more in their 3 year old year.. Ready??

Let's compare who did more as a 4 year old. <g>


Ready??

[lsbets]

I bet Smarty has more fun at stud as a 4 year old :-)

[sq764]

Originally posted by peakpros
Let's compare who did more as a 4 year old. <g>


Ready??

Let's see, Smarty won $7.5 million, and was syndicated for $48 million..

Let's see where Ghostzapper matches up by the time he retires...

[Valuist]

Since they went the first half and final 4f in similar time, I think a quality speed horse like Smarty would've been in the mix in the final furlong.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I think you are right- SJ may not have done that well because of the track speed. Congratulations to GZ and Beyer's numbers.
But with all the big race winners and champion horses in this Classic, you still had only Smarty Jones referenced in the thread title. Think about it. LOL.

[OTM Al]

It was a great field but it could have been so much the better with Smarty, Medaglia D'Oro and Southern Image. What about Candy Ride or what about Bago had he come over. Can't believe how fast the last 2 were forgotten about. I for one just didn't believe in GZ for the win and paid the price by losing a super ticket that had I flipped him with Funny Cide would have been a winner. It was in retrospect a stupid play, but FC just seemed primed for a good run and physically looked better than he ever has.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe Ghostzapper would have been a much more highly regarded 3yo if the genius Bobby Frankel hadn't fallen in love with Empire Maker. He gave Ghostzapper no chance, because he had Empire Maker and Medaglia d'Oro. He kept Ghostzapper SPRINTING!!! WHY?

If Bobby is the great trainer he is supposed to be, how come it took him until August of this year to stretch Ghostzapper out?

[sq764]

Originally posted by I LOVE THIS GAME
what would smarty jones have done in the classic? NOTHING.It just goes to show you that he wasn't much like i have been saying he beat nothing.He would not have been able to beat ghostzapper on his best day. Where was birdstone that piece of garbage? i made a killing on that race.ghostzapper was an overlay. this horse is a train!

You can speculate all you want and you could be right for that matter.. what I don't get is why take away from what Smarty Jones accomplished? He came within 2 lengths of pulling off one of the hardest feats in all of sports..

He brought excitement to racing, people that never watched a race before... He gave hope for 'the little guy'...

He won $7.5 million and was a multiple grade 1 winner.

Did he beat weak competition? Who knows.. But to say you were the best 3 yo in the world that year says quite a lot.. You can't take that away from him

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
Let's see, Smarty won $7.5 million, and was syndicated for $48 million.. Let's see where Ghostzapper matches up by the time he retires...

Smarty earned 2.5 million with a $5 million dollar bonus, hard to call that career earnings, however, Smarty Jones would likely not have hit the board in this race and would have finished at best third.

[cj]

Didn't Smarty run a 118 Beyer or so winning the Preakness in mid May? If so, he certainly had the talent to compete with Ghostzapper, who reportedly ran a 124 in the Classic, in late October. Who knows if he could have beat him, but who really cares. He's retired, move on.

I'm glad Kitten's Joy lost, Smarty was the best 3yo in the country, and deserved the 3yo award.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by cj
Didn't Smarty run a 118 Beyer or so winning the Preakness in mid May? If so, he certainly had the talent to compete with Ghostzapper, who reportedly ran a 124 in the Classic, in late October.

A dream trip 118 against nothing doesn't constitute he would have been competitive, Midway Road has run a 123 and how well would he have fared? GZ has logged 3 beyers this season above that 118 and has also averaged much higher than Smarty did. He wouldn't not have been competitive, one great race does not a good horse make.

[I LOVE THIS GAME]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
Smarty earned 2.5 million with a $5 million dollar bonus, hard to call that career earnings, however, Smarty Jones would likely not have hit the board in this race and would have finished at b
est third.






thanks for posting some logic. SMARTY JONES is overated period.Where are all the horses he had beaten. Lion heart was the only decent horse he beat, and beat him when lion heart wasn't at his best.SMARTY JONES would have not done anything in the haskel either.

[sq764]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
Smarty earned 2.5 million with a $5 million dollar bonus, hard to call that career earnings, however, Smarty Jones would likely not have hit the board in this race and would have finished at best third.

ok, $2.5 million...

Silver Charm earned $1.64 million as a 3 year old

Cigar earned $89,000 as a 3 year old..

You speak like $2.5 million is a joke..

He was the best 3 YO of his year, plain and simple. You can speculate all you want about what he would have done, etc.. You can't argue with the facts

[sq764]

Originally posted by I LOVE THIS GAME
thanks for posting some logic. SMARTY JONES is overated period.Where are all the horses he had beaten. Lion heart was the only decent horse he beat, and beat him when lion heart wasn't at his best.SMARTY JONES would have not done anything in the haskel either.

You 2 must be phenominal handicappers, considering you know what would happen in races that never occurred...

Maybe you should be using your prognostication skills for profit and not to arguing woulda/coulda/shoulda

[Valuist]

I think it would've been a tremendous battle; along the lines of Sunday Silence/Easy Goer or Alysheba/Ferdinand. A 118 in May of his 3YO year; if you could've made a figure for the Belmont based on 10 furlongs instead of 12, it would've been in the same neighborhood as his Preakness number. 3YOs often keep gaining in the figs.....the pace was definitely on the soft side...Smarty would've been right there at the finish. We were robbed we didn't get to see it.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
He was the best 3 YO of his year, plain and simple. You can speculate all you want about what he would have done, etc.. You can't argue with the facts

I never said he wasn't, he probably was, I would think Kitten's Joy has accomplished more, facing older's etc. and Birdstone's Breeders Cup hardly makes him more distinguished. However, I don't think that it is fair to count the $5 million bonus as part of career earnings and more importantly, Smarty Jones would have been running for at best 3rd in this race and probably, more likely, 5th. Had he ran in this race and lost like he most certainly would have the three year old title would be between where both he and Birdstone finished and who beat whom. Smarty wasn't there though...

[sq764]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
I never said he wasn't, he probably was, I would think Kitten's Joy has accomplished more, facing older's etc. and Birdstone's Breeders Cup hardly makes him more distinguished. However, I don't think that it is fair to count the $5 million bonus as part of career earnings and more importantly, Smarty Jones would have been running for at best 3rd in this race and probably, more likely, 5th. Had he ran in this race and lost like he most certainly would have the three year old title would be between where both he and Birdstone finished and who beat whom. Smarty wasn't there though...
Didn't they count Cigar's bonuses towards his career earnings? I know they were only like $450K, but they still counted..

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
Didn't they count Cigar's bonuses towards his career earnings? I know they were only like $450K, but they still counted..

I don't know how the earnings are broken down with Cigar, however, I don't think you will disagree when I make the point that bonuses shouldn't really count as they aren't really earned like race by race earnings are measured.

[sq764]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
I don't know how the earnings are broken down with Cigar, however, I don't think you will disagree when I make the point that bonuses shouldn't really count as they aren't really earned like race by race earnings are measured.

I don't disagree with your opinion.. I am not sure how I feel about bonuses being counted.. I mean techincally, the horse did 'earn' the money through his/her racing... It's not purse earnings, but it is career earnings..

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
I don't disagree with your opinion.. I am not sure how I feel about bonuses being counted.. I mean techincally, the horse did 'earn' the money through his/her racing... It's not purse earnings, but it is career earnings..

Better definition.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by Valuist
Smarty would've been right there at the finish. We were robbed we didn't get to see it.

If Smarty were to repeat his 118, which from his career is a fluke race, against much steeper competition (Highly Unlikely), he still finishes third behind RIM.

[Valuist]

I didn't say he'd repeat. I said he could move forward. Most horses speed figures don't peak in May of their 3YO year. And that pace was soft. They went the first half in :47 and the final half in :47 and change.

[chickenhead]

two words for some of you.......player haters.

[cj]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
If Smarty were to repeat his 118, which from his career is a fluke race, against much steeper competition (Highly Unlikely), he still finishes third behind RIM.

He would be expected to improve between 1 and 1.5 points per month, which makes him right there with GZ. Maybe Smarty Jones had already peaked, maybe he hadn't, we'll never know. There is no way to know what could have happened, but you guys kill me with this "beat nothing" BS! The Kentucky Derby is a bigger race than the BC Classic will ever be. Many horses are ruined trying to make the Derby, let alone winning it.

This horse was less than a length from being an undefeated Triple Crown champion. He lost to a very good Birdstone horse, who had zero shot in the Classic with the pace. When the 1-2 horses ran 1-2 all the way around the track, I don't need pace figures to know they weren't exactly burning up the backstretch.

Move on ILTG, and maybe post a race BEFORE it happens for a change!

[RXB]

So then, Archie Griffin was the greatest running back in football history?

After all, he's the only player ever to win the Heisman back-to-back. And there are more college football players than pro players, so it's a greater accomplishment, right?

But you see, college football is not pro football. And equally, early season 3YO's as a group are vastly inferior to older horses. So while winning the Kentucky Derby might make you more popular, it's not as great an achievement as winning the Breeders Cup Classic, where you are running against the very best dirt horses in the world.

Frankly, if the choice is between Smarty (never ran after the Belmont, only won two Grade I's) and Ghostzapper (won the best race, but still only ran four times, and also only won two Grade I's) then I'd say it's a pretty sad commentary on the state of top-class racing these days.

[cj]

As for your football analogy, whatever...

The Triple Crown is bigger than the Breeder's Cup in the USA, like it or not. If you don't believe me, then look at syndication fees for Kentucky Derby winners, then look at those of BC Classic winners. There is no comparison.

I'm not going to knock a horse who won 2 of 3, barely losing the 3d, then turn around and praise a horse who ran in only four races all damn year. Smarty almost doubled that total in half a year. Does anyone really think if GZ was in last year's Triple Crown grind he'd be winning the BC Classic and running 125 or so speed figures? I tend to doubt it.

And by the way, the BC Classic isn't the toughest race to win, the Kentucky Derby is. You only get one shot, not so for the BC.

[RXB]

I love the brushoff, "As for the football analogy, whatever..." It's the same thing. Pro players are better than college players, and older horses run faster than 3YO's by a large margin.

You put the Kentucky Derby winner straight up four weeks later against the best older horse-- who wins?

I'm not interested in syndication rights or whatever, I'm interested in who wins the races.

[Valuist]

3YOs beat older horses quite often, especially in the final quarter of the year. One of my favorite angles is the LONE 3YO going against older horses. The old saying "3YOs can't be older" is a myth. It happens. And often.

[chickenhead]

3 yo's have faired pretty well in the Classic....something like 7 winners in 20 years. If your argument is that they can't win, you're obviously wrong.

<<oops, posted on top of valuist.>>

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by RXB


I'm not interested in syndication rights or whatever, I'm interested in who wins the races.

As opposed to who actually runs in them?

[RXB]

Re-reference my post and you'll see that I was talking about 3YO's in the first half of the year.

Yes, 3YO's can win the big races late in the year, but rarely if there's a legit top-rate older horse in the race.

I'm not really high on Ghostzapper being HOY. Four starts, two Grade I wins doesn't enthuse me. I'm just pointing out that older horses are clearly superior to 3YO's in general-- especially early in the year-- and that those who put so much emphasis on the Triple Crown should recognize that fact.

[peakpros]

Originally posted by cj
He would be expected to improve between 1 and 1.5 points per month, which makes him right there with GZ. Maybe Smarty Jones had already peaked, maybe he hadn't, we'll never know. There is no way to know what could have happened, but you guys kill me with this "beat nothing" BS! The Kentucky Derby is a bigger race than the BC Classic will ever be. Many horses are ruined trying to make the Derby, let alone winning it.

This horse was less than a length from being an undefeated Triple Crown champion. He lost to a very good Birdstone horse, who had zero shot in the Classic with the pace. When the 1-2 horses ran 1-2 all the way around the track, I don't need pace figures to know they weren't exactly burning up the backstretch.

Move on ILTG, and maybe post a race BEFORE it happens for a change!

CJ..

First... I would like to ask a favor....


Can you give us your pace and speed figs for Funny Cides Preakness last year along with SJ for this year.

Second...

I think SJ is a fine horse but I think GZ is exceptional. But I can't prove my opinions because Smarty Jones connections decided to stop running him. In JUNE of his 3 YO season, when the blank check arrived at the Chapmans door. Think of that...stopping your horse, the people's horse...a horse being compared to the best of all time (with the media hype) in June of his sophomore season. (please don't tell me about the injury stuff in August. I don't believe a word of it).


third.....

Watching GZ race in the Iselin sent a chill down my spine. Even before the figs were calculated I knew I was watching a phenominal racing performance. To me this is how you capture fans. You give them performances on the track.

Yes the KD is the biggest race of the year but ten minutes after it's over the casual racing fan tunes out of the sport for another year. This year it was different because of SJ. For 5 weeks he captured the interest of the non-racing fan. But that interest stopped for most fans when the Chapmans took the money (as is their right).

But us die hard racing fans are truly lucky.... we get to prorate his figs and discuss his syndication value in our attempts to judge and defend his greatness.

[JustRalph]

Why is it that every year after a horse wins 2 out of 3 of the Triple Crown the crowd comes out and berates the horse right up to the end of the year? It amazes me that these Rich owners and Trainers and thousands of others hang their entire racing involvement on winning the Kentucky Derby. Then after the races are run, their prestige and value is downplayed to the points in this thread. Ask Frankel if he would trade some of Ghost Zappers wins for the KY Derby...............I bet I know his answer

[RXB]

Might have something to do with the fact that a lot of them recently (Silver Charm, Real Quiet, Charismatic, Smarty) didn't see the races again for the rest of the year (and with the latter two, never again.)

Also, there's a big difference between "berating" them and putting their accomplishments into the proper perspective.

Yes, I'm sure a lot of people would rather win the Derby. And that's why we have all of these horses being pushed for too much too soon and breaking down earlier and earlier in their careers, which is not a good thing in my opinion.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by cj
Move on ILTG, and maybe post a race BEFORE it happens for a change!

I have moved on but if you honestly think that 118 against a nothing field shows his worth you need some help. The only horse to come out of that field with a future Grade 1 win was the distance limited Lion Heart. The other Grade 1 horse he faced in Birdstone did beat him. You can argue all day that the Derby is a more prestigious race but you have to be defined by who you beat and Smarty beat nothing. By the way I do post before races, just not frequently on this forum, you should try DRF. I said I like Perfect Drift and Birdstone. I did play them along with GZ when he was at 5-1 as a saver. I was right about Perfect Drift to some extent also when I pointed out I thought he would make up ground on Pleasantly Perfect which he did from the Pacific Classic, not enough but he did.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by JustRalph
Ask Frankel if he would trade some of Ghost Zappers wins for the KY Derby...............I bet I know his answer

Frankel is training the best horse we have seen in a long while, I would bet the jury is still out on that one.

[sq764]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
I have moved on but if you honestly think that 118 against a nothing field shows his worth you need some help. The only horse to come out of that field with a future Grade 1 win was the distance limited Lion Heart. The other Grade 1 horse he faced in Birdstone did beat him. You can argue all day that the Derby is a more prestigious race but you have to be defined by who you beat and Smarty beat nothing. By the way I do post before races, just not frequently on this forum, you should try DRF. I said I like Perfect Drift and Birdstone. I did play them along with GZ when he was at 5-1 as a saver. I was right about Perfect Drift to some extent also when I pointed out I thought he would make up ground on Pleasantly Perfect which he did from the Pacific Classic, not enough but he did.

All I want to know is the biggest idiots of all must be the breeders who paid $48 million for Smarty.. I mean if he beat NOTHING, then what a freaking ripoff!!

[RXB]

It is true that the rest of the 3YO division this year was somewhat weak. However, Smarty beat them consistently and soundly, so he was obviously a legitimately good horse.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by RXB
Re-reference my post and you'll see that I was talking about 3YO's in the first half of the year.

Yes, 3YO's can win the big races late in the year, but rarely if there's a legit top-rate older horse in the race.


Holy Bull won the Met Mile in May against the best older horses in training.

[RXB]

Holy Bull was a tremendous talent, the older horses were rather weak that year, and rarely do "the best horses in training" run in the Met Mile. The best horses in training run in the 9-furlong and 10-furlong races.

Conquistador Cielo and Dixie Brass won the Met Mile as 3YOs, too. I never said it doesn't happen. But if anyone wants to argue the point that 3YO's are as good as older horses... well, what can I say?

[chickenhead]

some 3 yo are better than older horses, I think that is the point.

you made a football analogy, 2 big problems with that. One it's a team sport, Two pros never play college guys.

how's about a better analogy, track and field. The best collegiate athletes are at a disadvantage with older more well developed athletes. They do compete, and yes, sometimes there are collegiate athletes that pound the older athletes. Much better analogy to horses than football.

[RXB]

Yes, I think I've already said that sometimes 3YO's are better than older horses. But when you have a legitimately first-rate older horse, it will beat a legitimately first-rate 3YO almost without fail, even in the fall. Seattle Slew beat Affirmed twice; the next year Affirmed beat Spectacular Bid. As good as all three of them were as 3YO's, they were even better as 4YO's.

And yes, track is probably a better analogy than football, but I'm a football fan, damnit... The basic point is the same.

Since older horses are generally the best horses, I think that they should be the stars. I think they should run for the best purses; it only seems right. And if they did, it would almost certainly halt the increasingly harmful breeding and training practices that favour precociousness and early speed above all else, the things that result in short fields and short careers that are bad for the health of the game.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by RXB
the things that result in short fields and short careers that are bad for the health of the game.


Ahh, then I can assume you applaud what Paulson has done with Azeri this year? Keeping a star in healthy competition at the highest levels of the game.....good for the health of the game indeed!

Bravo!

[RXB]

I should also add that older horses give significant weight concessions to 3YO's; if they ran at equal weights, things would tip even more dramatically toward the older horses.

[cj]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
I have moved on but if you honestly think that 118 against a nothing field shows his worth you need some help. The only horse to come out of that field with a future Grade 1 win was the distance limited Lion Heart. The other Grade 1 horse he faced in Birdstone did beat him. You can argue all day that the Derby is a more prestigious race but you have to be defined by who you beat and Smarty beat nothing. By the way I do post before races, just not frequently on this forum, you should try DRF. I said I like Perfect Drift and Birdstone. I did play them along with GZ when he was at 5-1 as a saver. I was right about Perfect Drift to some extent also when I pointed out I thought he would make up ground on Pleasantly Perfect which he did from the Pacific Classic, not enough but he did.

I need some help? Please explain that one!

I never said Smarty Jones would win, just that it was possible. Every year its the same thing, the 3yos were weak.

We'll never know if SJ would have developed further or not, but to say he wouldn't have had a chance is silly. When Ghostzapper won the Iselin with a 128, was it because he beat "nothing" or because he was a genuinely great horse?

Smarty showed the potential to run a very fast race. Could he have run 120s late in the year and next year? Probably, and to think otherwise is a little short sighted. Horses that run 118 Beyers in mid May as 3yos tend to make the opposition look pretty weak.

[RXB]

I love Azeri. Wonderful horse. And yes, I applaud what Paulson did, bringing her back, but only because he went about it the right way and took every precaution in the book.

When it was first announced that she was going back into training, I have to admit that I wasn't in favour of it because if the tendon really is bowed, it's rare that the horse comes back sound and able. But when I thought about it a little more, I decided that as long as they were absolutely convinced that she would not be endangered and would still be a top performer, it was a great idea. That's one reason I thought so highly of his dear old Dad-- he bred 'em to race 'em, not to run a horse three times and then send it to the shed. So kudos to the Paulson family.

And kudos to Mott, Mandella and the other few trainers who don't try to rush every promising young horse in their barns into the Derby chase.

[cj]

Originally posted by peakpros
CJ..

First... I would like to ask a favor....


Can you give us your pace and speed figs for Funny Cides Preakness last year along with SJ for this year.



Funny Cide
Wood Mem 109-110
Ky Derby 120-107
Preakness 116-108

Smarty Jones
Rebel 99-114
Ark Derby 104-109
Ky Derby 114-106
Preakness 118-113

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by RXB
And kudos to Mott, Mandella and the other few trainers who don't try to rush every promising young horse in their barns into the Derby chase.

Mott? Does he EVER have a good 3yo Derby prospect? Strange, isn't it?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
All I want to know is the biggest idiots of all must be the breeders who paid $48 million for Smarty.. I mean if he beat NOTHING, then what a freaking ripoff!!

I have wondered the same thing, he isn't going to be worth the stud fee they ask, his father at much cheaper would be a better buy in my book.

[RXB]

About the only early season 3YO Derby prospect of any repute that I remember in Mott's barn was Favourite Trick, who landed there after Patrick Byrne decided to try training exclusively for Stronach.

I'm sure if Mott wanted to have Derby prospects, he could. I suspect that he just doesn't think it's really the right way to go.

[Buckeye]

What would he have done?

I don't know, probably try to run them all into the ground.

Most of the time that's what happened.

Ghostzapper didn't beat Smarty Jones to state the obvious, and like it or not, we'll never know if he could have.

[peakpros]

Originally posted by Buckeye
What would he have done?

I don't know, probably try to run them all into the ground.

Most of the time that's what happened.

Ghostzapper didn't beat Smarty Jones to state the obvious, and like it or not, we'll never know if he could have.

Looking at the figs I don't think SJ could have outrun Roses in May nor GZ early. I see him laying third and then backing up in the stretch.

But you are right. I'll never know if SJ could have caught GZ in the stretch. But running them into the ground. This group?

Hardly.

He might have finished ahead of Birdstone. Maybe.

[sq764]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
I have wondered the same thing, he isn't going to be worth the stud fee they ask, his father at much cheaper would be a better buy in my book.

So you already seem to know where Smarty would have finished on Saturday in the race AND you know he won't recoup his syndicate fee..

Do you base any of your thoughts on actual events or just purely on conjecture and speculation?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by cj
Horses that run 118 Beyers in mid May as 3yos tend to make the opposition look pretty weak.

Of course they do because they face subpar competition. Take Funny Cide's Preakness for example getting a 114 for that effort against nothing. Now lets fast forward and look at Midway Road's 123 effort this year only to drop back off into oblivion. You can't base the highlight performance of a single 3yo race as a just of their true ability, Smarty Jones ran one impressive race in his career, against nothing. Ghostzapper has ran three impressive races this year, much better than Smarty, against next to nothing fields, but also some of the best dirt fields around. Your comparison is idiotic, the animal couldn't have won and wouldn't have been close to the winner, 3rd best as I have said.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally posted by sq764
Do you base any of your thoughts on actual events or just purely on conjecture and speculation?

No, just from a purchasers standpoint paying tens of thousands more for Smarty Jones, an unproven sire doesn't make sense when you can save that money and put it towards a good broodmare and his father. That is nothing against Smarty as he may turn out to be a great sire, however, his father is a much better deal right now, kind of along the lines of paying 35k for MDO or paying 15k for Congaree, Congaree just seems to offer better value.

[Buckeye]

Originally posted by elysiantraveller
the animal couldn't have won and wouldn't have been close to the winner, 3rd best as I have said.

I wonder if Smarty Jones "the animal" understands the truth of what you said, especially since it never happened on the racetrack, eyeball to eyeball.

Numbers only tell part of the story, the animals themselves never met.

[Valuist]

The "subpar competition" argument for Smarty is ludicrous if you look at the field (do 4 horses count as a "field?) that Ghostzapper beat up on in the Iselin.....in the slop. That 128 was fraudulent.