Stronach calls for fair bidding process on NYRA franchise

[takeout]

Magna Entertainment Corp. will continue to pursue acquisition of the New York Racing Association franchise and "will cry bloody murder" if state officials do not allow a fair process for bidding, Chairman Frank Stronach declared on Friday.
[snip]
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=50302&subsec=1

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm sure now that Mr. Stronach has powerful NY State Senator Joseph Bruno's SON working for him as a PAID LOBBYIST, that everything will be on a TOTALLY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, right Mr. Stronach boy?

YEAH RIGHT.

Let's tell the whole story here folks....

NYRA will probably be screwed before the process even begins due to all the back door deals involving Stronach, Bruno and the Clintons (that's right....oh, don't you know that Bill Clinton, "husband" of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton happens to be GOOD FRIENDS with one Ms. Belinda Stronach, DAUGHTER of Mr. Frank Stronach)?

Yeah, things are setting up quite nicely in Albany when it comes to Stronach, so he should keep his mouth shut about a level playing field.

[takeout]

I thought you would like that one. :D

[Tom]

PA, Bill Clinton is friends with EVERYONE'S daughter!:D

[rrbauer]

Tom wrote:
Bill Clinton is friends with EVERYONE'S daughter!

Comment: Absolutely Classic!

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I'm sure now that Mr. Stronach has powerful NY State Senator Joseph Bruno's SON working for him as a PAID LOBBYIST, that everything will be on a TOTALLY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, right Mr. Stronach boy?

YEAH RIGHT.

Let's tell the whole story here folks....

NYRA will probably be screwed before the process even begins due to all the back door deals involving Stronach, Bruno and the Clintons (that's right....oh, don't you know that Bill Clinton, "husband" of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton happens to be GOOD FRIENDS with one Ms. Belinda Stronach, DAUGHTER of Mr. Frank Stronach)?

Yeah, things are setting up quite nicely in Albany when it comes to Stronach, so he should keep his mouth shut about a level playing field.

PA..Didnt know you had that kind of venom in you, Why do you hate this man so much..

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
PA..Didnt know you had that kind of venom in you, Why do you hate this man so much..

You, of all people, McSchell, should know that...having been the target of same several times! LOL

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
You, of all people, McSchell, should know that...having been the target of same several times! LOL

I get a kick out of you Dancer!!

I just love these Stronach bashers! Tis man has done more for the racing industry then lots of people beleive, Guys are mad because tey have to join his club (express bet) Why not..He owns it and has bought the rights to everything he owns,Just love these guys that do nothing but bash somebody that is trying to do something that has never been done before,Big Frank has given LOTS of jobs,in Canada USA and a broad has given trainers horses, has given to countless charitys, Has bailed out several racetracks that wouldn still be running if it werent for him,Where does it end, He has spend Billions in the racing world,The thing that looks real good on the Frank Stronach bashers,,,He had the last laugh winning the Classic with GhostZapper.

PS..In a few years MAGNA will rule the racing world..Watch this man as he has no limitions

[the little guy]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I get a kick out of you Dancer!!

I just love these Stronach bashers! Tis man has done more for the racing industry then lots of people beleive, Guys are mad because tey have to join his club (express bet) Why not..He owns it and has bought the rights to everything he owns,Just love these guys that do nothing but bash somebody that is trying to do something that has never been done before,Big Frank has given LOTS of jobs,in Canada USA and a broad has given trainers horses, has given to countless charitys, Has bailed out several racetracks that wouldn still be running if it werent for him,Where does it end, He has spend Billions in the racing world,The thing that looks real good on the Frank Stronach bashers,,,He had the last laugh winning the Classic with GhostZapper.

PS..In a few years MAGNA will rule the racing world..Watch this man as he has no limitions Ignorance is truly bliss...at least in your case.

[linrom1]

I am not PA , but, I hate that guy because he screwed up GP. I want him to sell it back to the Orient Corporation.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
PA..Didnt know you had that kind of venom in you, Why do you hate this man so much..

I'm not sure I know what you are talking about. I was just setting the record straight about what is actually going on in upstate NY regarding the politicians and Frank Stronach's Magna Corporation.

There is absolutely no need to give the contract to Magna. NYRA has been doing an excellent job for many, many years.

Have they been perfect? No. Has Magna? I think we all know the answer to that question.

As for the man personally, I admire what Frank Stronach has accomplished in life. This has nothing to do with the man really, but when he goes to the press and speaks about fairness, well then, I just have to speak out as well.

Where exactly in my post do you get that I hate the man? I don't hate anyone. I'm just trying to show that the playing field is not all that level on his side of the fence, so he shouldn't be the first one casting stones in the press about "fairness"

Nothing personal. Strictly business.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I'm sure now that Mr. Stronach has powerful NY State Senator Joseph Bruno's SON working for him as a PAID LOBBYIST, that everything will be on a TOTALLY LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, right Mr. Stronach boy?

YEAH RIGHT.

Let's tell the whole story here folks....

NYRA will probably be screwed before the process even begins due to all the back door deals involving Stronach, Bruno and the Clintons (that's right....oh, don't you know that Bill Clinton, "husband" of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton happens to be GOOD FRIENDS with one Ms. Belinda Stronach, DAUGHTER of Mr. Frank Stronach)?

Yeah, things are setting up quite nicely in Albany when it comes to Stronach, so he should keep his mouth shut about a level playing field.

PA please explain to me where you are showing your LOVE for Frank..I see a lot of hate in this post for the man. Not only that! You are also bringing his daughter into the act..Has no bearing that Clinton is a friend.Back Door Deals! This is all assumed..If not then please tell me.I have known this man and his son Andy since they had a small farm in Ontario called Beechwood Farms..I have seen him rise to become the mega machine that he is,Frank will own Belmont 1 day whether Newyorkers like it or not...Just Business

[Dancer's Image]

Originally posted by the little guy
Ignorance is truly bliss...at least in your case.

OK, little guy, I'll call you! If you want to call someone ignorant, you must point out what exactly that McSchell said in that post that was ignorant and delineate what exactly was ignorant about it. I've re-read the offending post by McSchell that you cut and pasted, and I can find nothing that is ignorant about it. So put up or shut up, little guy!

[the little guy]

Let's begin with " in a few years MAGNA will rule the racing world...watch this man he has no ( I'll assume he meant " limitations " ).

To act as though having one person or entity ruling racing would be a good thing is naive ( and possibly ignorant ). It is hard to imagine how NO competition in the industry would make for an overall better product for owners or bettors. I can't imagine why we would all like to be at the mercy of one man.

" He has bailed out several racetracks that wouldn't be running if it weren't for him ". I would like some concrete examples of this. And, if this is true, how was this good for racing? Perhaps these tracks would have been better off closed. If this poster thinks paying triple what properties are worth ( absolutely the case in Maryland ) is suggestive of a smart businessman then ignorant or naive would be too kind a description. Stupid would be flat out more accurate. Also, it is pretty much understood that one of the main stumbling blocks preventing Maryland ( and thus Magna ) from getting slots is Joe Defrancis. Churchill refused to make a deal when DeFrancis insisted on remaining involved. Big Frank paid this no mind, and still paid through the nose for these properties, and now look where he stands.

And since we're on slots, let's discuss what's really going on, Stronach is paying excessive prices for racetrack property after property for one main reason....SLOTS. He figures if just a few of these properties can get slots approved, they will more than pay for his mistakes. He may well be correct, but so far this plan hasn't worked out, and he has suffered massive financial losses.

Another very serious issue that this poster has no understanding of ( thus my claim of ignorance ) is what should happen to many of our beloved racetracks ( Santa Anita and the soon to be rebuilt Gulfstream in particular ) when Frank dies. He may love racing and have every inclination to continue operating these tracks, but he is certainly not a young man, and it is FAR from clear that anyone in his family will keep these tracks in existance ( especially without slots ). This is a major potential problem for racing in America and to ignore it is IGNORANT.

Any other questions?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by the little guy
Let's begin with " in a few years MAGNA will rule the racing world...watch this man he has no ( I'll assume he meant " limitations " ).

To act as though having one person or entity ruling racing would be a good thing is naive ( and possibly ignorant ). It is hard to imagine how NO competition in the industry would make for an overall better product for owners or bettors. I can't imagine why we would all like to be at the mercy of one man.

" He has bailed out several racetracks that wouldn't be running if it weren't for him ". I would like some concrete examples of this. And, if this is true, how was this good for racing? Perhaps these tracks would have been better off closed. If this poster thinks paying triple what properties are worth ( absolutely the case in Maryland ) is suggestive of a smart businessman then ignorant or naive would be too kind a description. Stupid would be flat out more accurate. Also, it is pretty much understood that one of the main stumbling blocks preventing Maryland ( and thus Magna ) from getting slots is Joe Defrancis. Churchill refused to make a deal when DeFrancis insisted on remaining involved. Big Frank paid this no mind, and still paid through the nose for these properties, and now look where he stands.

And since we're on slots, let's discuss what's really going on, Stronach is paying excessive prices for racetrack property after property for one main reason....SLOTS. He figures if just a few of these properties can get slots approved, they will more than pay for his mistakes. He may well be correct, but so far this plan hasn't worked out, and he has suffered massive financial losses.

Another very serious issue that this poster has no understanding of ( thus my claim of ignorance ) is what should happen to many of our beloved racetracks ( Santa Anita and the soon to be rebuilt Gulfstream in particular ) when Frank dies. He may love racing and have every inclination to continue operating these tracks, but he is certainly not a young man, and it is FAR from clear that anyone in his family will keep these tracks in existance ( especially without slots ). This is a major potential problem for racing in America and to ignore it is IGNORANT.

Any other questions?

This post really shows me a person who is afraid of change..ALL business's big or small lose money, Buying properties over the price only strengthens his hold.Just because you havent heard what the family plans for these tracks are after he dies,doesnt mean they wont continue.Didnt he bail out Bay Meadows?..Didnt he bail out Pimlico?..Didnt he bail out Santa Anita?..correct me if I am wrong? He may have paid big money but lets face it..If the propteries were stripped of racetracks, They are still worth a fortune.As for Gulfstream he has taken a beatup track that has weathered many a storm and plans to make it a mega place.Im sure the loses he has had arent near to what he had made. Show me someone who comes close to him, This man has NO competition..If he is allowed to buy up these tracks he will rule!

[Observer]

The industry needs to finds ways of uniting .. not ways of being divided .. let each track or corporation be its own entity, but the industry needs to join together for its own benefit .. sort of along the lines of MLB, NFL, NBA.

It's not a matter of being afraid of change. It's having an understanding of what's simply not healthy for the game as a whole.

And when someone uses the history of the Preakness, and threatens that race's future by using it as a bargaining chip, that is sure to ruffle the feathers of those in the industry who care about the sport's history and future.

[Observer]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
..If he is allowed to buy up these tracks he will rule!

Having one organization rule all the properties leaves the entire kingdom in line to come crashing down one day, then where is the sport???

[Dancer's Image]

Thank you both, little guy and McSchell, for your thoughtful replies. While you two obviously disagree, I will state the obvious, which is that neither of you is ignorant. I don't know Frank Stronach or either of you, but McSchell apparently does know FS, and he likes (or at least respects) him, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt until he does something egregiously wrong. I share similar concerns with the little guy about someone (Frank Stronach) or some corporation monopolizing racing, but this is still a free country (although admittedly getting less and less free every day), and he and Magna have a right to pursue their business interests. And given the current state of racing (mis)management, it might actually be an improvement to have King Frank own and control it all!

ps. since we share a nom de plume (at least in my wife's estimation), I will apologize to you McShell, for calling you ignorant and/or stupid.

[PaceAdvantage]

How about a basic question and answer question.

Here's a question:

Which racing entity, on a day in and day out basis, puts out the most desirable racing product in the country?

Answer:

NYRA

Question:

Why should there be any change to the ownership of Aqueduct, Belmont and Saratoga?

Answer:

There shouldn't be.

Question:

Why was there such an uproar when the mid-atlantic states cut off the Belmont signal?

Answer:

Cause NYRA puts out the best racing on a day in, day out basis.


Ask any handicapper in America who puts out the best racing product on a consistent basis and the answer is almost always NYRA.

'Nuff Said.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
PA please explain to me where you are showing your LOVE for Frank..I see a lot of hate in this post for the man. Not only that! You are also bringing his daughter into the act..


What's with the love hate thing? I certainly don't love the man, but I don't hate him either. I thought I expressed that quite nicely in my last reply.

As for his daughter, she is very much a public figure, so I have no guilt in bringing her up in my post. It ties the Clintons in with the Stronachs. Hillary Clinton, as you may know, is a Senator here in NY. Makes for some interesting bedfellows when time comes for NYRA's franchise to come due.

Certainly doesn't appear to be a level playing field when you look at it with a wide angle lens.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
How about a basic question and answer question.

Here's a question:

Which racing entity, on a day in and day out basis, puts out the most desirable racing product in the country?

Answer:

NYRA

Question:

Why should there be any change to the ownership of Aqueduct, Belmont and Saratoga?

Answer:

There shouldn't be.

Question:

Why was there such an uproar when the mid-atlantic states cut off the Belmont signal?

Answer:

Cause NYRA puts out the best racing on a day in, day out basis.


Ask any handicapper in America who puts out the best racing product on a consistent basis and the answer is almost always NYRA.

'Nuff Said.

Just what I thought..A hardened Newyorker!!
PA .Do you really think you have made a fair statment??..Lets be fair!..If ALL the other tracks had the same purses as New york..Do you think it would still rule..Hell Mountaineer has larger purses in their claiming races.The image of the racetrack must come from advertising and making the product ejoyable for both young and old.Frank may be shrewd and may step on some toes but he is succeeding in his plan.Strange bedfellows yes...Just think..Bill Clinton as CEO of NYRA

[PaceAdvantage]

Your last comment only serves to strengthen my point!

There ARE other racetracks in the country with HIGHER PURSE STRUCTURES than NYRA, but they still don't put out the product MOST DEMANDED by bettors across the country.

NYRA puts out the top product. Period. When you are this successful, there is no reason to change course and put Magna in charge, unless some other hanky panky is going on behind the scenes.

And as for Bill Clinton, the fact that he and Belinda Stronach are good friends gives Frank better access to Senator Hillary which in turn gives him access to the upper crust of NY politics. Not that he needs much help given he has Joe Bruno's son working as a paid political lobbyist for his Magna Corp.

Seems like a huge conflict of interest to me, how about you? Level playing? Hardly.

[the little guy]

Your assertion, McSchell_Racing, that Frank Stronach saved Pimlico is flat out wrong. So either you are ignorant about the situation or you are lying ( to yourself only, of course, because virtually everyone knows the truth ). The DeFrances family sold Pimlico and Laurel to Magna for approximately three times what it was worth, plus a minimum of 7% of the slots revenue for perpetuity. Had Magna not come along, the family would still be running Pimlico and Laurel, in virtually the same manner that magna is running it today. Perhaps you have not been to Pimlico...if you had you would have seen that nothing has changed since Magna took it over. Laurel, on the other hand, is undergoing renovations. For some reason, only known to Frank Stronach perhaps, he feels the dirt course needs to accomodate MORE horses. This is funny, because as Maryland has not gotten slots while virtually all surrounding states have, they may well be more likely to need a course that can hold less. Perhaps if Frank Stronach were a little smarter he would have understood that the alliance he formed in Maryland was doomed in its effort to get slots, at least exclusively.

As far as Bay meadows and Santa Anita, I don't know their situations as well ( though likely better than you do ), but I don't believe they were " bailed out ". Frank just made them the proverbial " offer they couldn't refuse " i.e. way too much money. And if they were in fact going to fold, certainly not the case for Santa Anita, then perhaps there were good reasons for that. And since it is you who suggests that if the property is stripped of racetracks that they are still worth, in your words, a fortune ( whether or not that " fortune " is more or less than Frank paid is open to discussion ) then you are openly admitting that he is NOT good for racing, as he may shut these places down. You said...not me.

Then you make an outrageously IGNORANT statement ( ignorant because you have continually displayed an absolute lack of knowledge about FACTS ) by saying he has made much more than he has lost. If you are speaking about racing, and I have to believe you are since that is what this entire conversation is about, then, once again, your are either ignorant or stupid.

Perhaps some coherent facts and less waving of Pom Poms would give you some credibility. Because the more you type, the more ignorance you display.

[Observer]

Taken from a Thoroughbred Times article dated 4/10/04:

Spurred by the prospect of the legalization of expanded gaming for California’s racetracks, Bay Meadows Land Co., which has leased Bay Meadows to Magna since 2001, might opt to run the racetrack upon expiration of Magna's lease on December 31, Bay Meadows Land Co. President Terry Fancher told the board in March.

There's also been much discussion of Bay Meadows being shut down for development:



Racing season is set to start April 7, but with plans in the works to demolish the track and develop office, retail and housing in its place, many wonder whether this year could be the last chance to see horse racing in San Mateo. - Oaklawn Tribune, March 27, 2004

[takeout]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Just think..Bill Clinton as CEO of NYRA
Or maybe even Joe DeFrancis. :D

We may see some pretty strange bedfellows develop when the bidding starts. Now THAT might be a horse race.

What’s the early line on TVG versus Magna? I’ll put $2 on Frank in the future book but I’m expecting a whole boatload of shenanigans from ALL sides between now and then. If we’re lucky some of the details along the way may even be disclosed to us lowly customers. What a treat that would be. Do I sound cynical? I can’t imagine why.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Observer
Taken from a Thoroughbred Times article dated 4/10/04:



There's also been much discussion of Bay Meadows being shut down for development:

The lease definitely is not being renewed. I can't locate the primary article, but this one mentions it in passing:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/search/searchdetail.asp?Section=&RecordNo=47821

Bill

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by the little guy
Your assertion, McSchell_Racing, that Frank Stronach saved Pimlico is flat out wrong. So either you are ignorant about the situation or you are lying ( to yourself only, of course, because virtually everyone knows the truth ). The DeFrances family sold Pimlico and Laurel to Magna for approximately three times what it was worth, plus a minimum of 7% of the slots revenue for perpetuity. Had Magna not come along, the family would still be running Pimlico and Laurel, in virtually the same manner that magna is running it today. Perhaps you have not been to Pimlico...if you had you would have seen that nothing has changed since Magna took it over. Laurel, on the other hand, is undergoing renovations. For some reason, only known to Frank Stronach perhaps, he feels the dirt course needs to accomodate MORE horses. This is funny, because as Maryland has not gotten slots while virtually all surrounding states have, they may well be more likely to need a course that can hold less. Perhaps if Frank Stronach were a little smarter he would have understood that the alliance he formed in Maryland was doomed in its effort to get slots, at least exclusively.

As far as Bay meadows and Santa Anita, I don't know their situations as well ( though likely better than you do ), but I don't believe they were " bailed out ". Frank just made them the proverbial " offer they couldn't refuse " i.e. way too much money. And if they were in fact going to fold, certainly not the case for Santa Anita, then perhaps there were good reasons for that. And since it is you who suggests that if the property is stripped of racetracks that they are still worth, in your words, a fortune ( whether or not that " fortune " is more or less than Frank paid is open to discussion ) then you are openly admitting that he is NOT good for racing, as he may shut these places down. You said...not me.

Then you make an outrageously IGNORANT statement ( ignorant because you have continually displayed an absolute lack of knowledge about FACTS ) by saying he has made much more than he has lost. If you are speaking about racing, and I have to believe you are since that is what this entire conversation is about, then, once again, your are either ignorant or stupid.

Perhaps some coherent facts and less waving of Pom Poms would give you some credibility. Because the more you type, the more ignorance you display.

Little Guy
Lets get something straight!! I am not a liar and FAR from stupid, Guess you think you have the upper hand belittling me,I see you have all the facts .I havent said he wasnt good for racing??..I think the man is great..see my other posts..All I know is a man and his family,Guess im naive on these facts. I guess Im the ass for defending someone I thought I knew.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Little Guy
Lets get something straight!! I am not a liar and FAR from stupid, Guess you think you have the upper hand belittling me,I see you have all the facts .I havent said he wasnt good for racing??..I think the man is great..see my other posts..All I know is a man and his family,Guess im naive on these facts. I guess Im the ass for defending someone I thought I knew.

You may not be a liar, and you may not be stupid, but you could easily be very guilty of something you accuse ME of being, and that's a "hardened Floridian" who will back his man (Stronach) till the bitter end. Just like you are accusing me of being a "hardened NewYorker" who will back NYRA to the bitter end.

Nothing wrong with that. You lay your facts on the table, and we'll lay ours.

[the little guy]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Little Guy
Lets get something straight!! I am not a liar and FAR from stupid, Guess you think you have the upper hand belittling me,I see you have all the facts .I havent said he wasnt good for racing??..I think the man is great..see my other posts..All I know is a man and his family,Guess im naive on these facts. I guess Im the ass for defending someone I thought I knew. If I was unfairly nasty, I apologize, but you have, at the very least, displayed a substantial lack of understanding and reality as it concerns Magna and their acquisitions. I was really responding to another poster who dared me to explain why I felt your statements displayed an ignorance of the facts. In that regard, I stand by what I've said.

You want to love Frank Stronach, go ahead, it's still almost a free country. But if you think Frank Stronach is the be all and end all for the future of racing, expect a heated argument, at least from me.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
You may not be a liar, and you may not be stupid, but you could easily be very guilty of something you accuse ME of being, and that's a "hardened Floridian" who will back his man (Stronach) till the bitter end. Just like you are accusing me of being a "hardened NewYorker" who will back NYRA to the bitter end.

Nothing wrong with that. You lay your facts on the table, and we'll lay ours.

If you come south this winter, Maybe this Hardened Floridian (Canadian ) will buy that hardened New Yorker a beer or two at the beach.! The offer is for any PA member

[Equineer]

If NYRA isn't likely to be granted renewal, let's face it, racing without the NYRA tracks wouldn't be worth our attention and devotion!

I know wisdom and politics seldom mix, but a lot is riding on slots to fund education... a critical public service.

If a clean-sheet departure or phased strategy were really feasible, it seems to me that New York should move towards consolidating the traditional lottery, tracks, OTBs, and slots in a state government agency (as existing licensed rights expire).

Given the enormous magnitude of tax revenue expectations, why not realize economies of scale and make the whole "shebang" a responsibility for elected politicians. The voting public certainly isn't keen to pay increased direct taxes for education.

Why should Stronach or any non-governmental interest be given a chance to botch public education funding... seems like survival-conscious politicians would necessarily be motivated to steer a better course than outsiders.

Current NYRA employees could become state employees, with some time-in-service benefit conversion scheme. One thing is sure, politicians always protect civil service employees, so the NY "racino" industry would be protected.

[dave999dave]

I'm coming in late to this discussion so forgive me if I'm repeating earlier points.

Stronach's MEC has just posted another money-losing quarter (http://www.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=25212) , on top of a year that lost $100 million, and there's no reason to believe things will turn around any time soon. Given that, it's hard to argue that he has shown good stewardship of the tracks he already owns, and you'd have to make a very compelling argument to me to convince me that it's good business sense to turn over more tracks to him. Here's MEC's latest financial statements (http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/98/98631/110204pr.pdf) if you're curious. He lost money operating his tracks last year and it looks like he'll lose even more this year.

Yes, he has sunk money into renovating some tracks, but often he seems to have done so reluctantly, and not always rapidly or competently. As a result local racing officials have lost much of their confidence in Magna. Here's a few links on that issue:
Maryland Officials Fed Up With Magna (http://www.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24305)
Wellman's Presentation to California Board (http://davidhinman.com/public/wellman_presentation.pdf)

I find it odd that someone would point out Stronach as a successful businessman in the horse racing industry, and then use as evidence all the valuable real estate he has acquired. As far as I know, he bought his tracks with the stated purpose of fixing them up for racing, not for building apartment complexes or shopping malls. A cynical person might suggest that Stronach is even intentionally dragging his feet on many of his promised renovations. When the tracks inevitably fail because of his neglect he'll have a great excuse to either force the issue of slots or pack it in and bulldoze the tracks for Wal-Marts. He's already doing something like that at Gulfstream. (http://www.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=22040)

I couldn't find the financial statements for the NYRA, but I did find news reports about indictments, fraud and a few other things that didn't instill confidence in me. Perhaps NYRA needs some competition to get its act together, but I doubt you'll find the answer in Stronach.

Why does he want to control every major track in the country anyway? So far all it's done is lose him over $150 million. He's gotta have a hidden agenda somewhere.

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA has been described as a quasi-governmental entity which is entirely NOT-for-profit.

I'm not sure if they are even required to release financial statements, at least publicly.

[dave999dave]

You're right, I did discover that they are required to turn over all net profit as taxes to the state of New York. Some groups, Magna among them, are trying to force the NYRA to open their books.

I also found one article which talked about how the NYRA lost $20 million last year. (http://www.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=23435)

Churchill Downs Inc. has done okay with their tracks. At least they're not losing money. Here's their latest publicly available statement. (http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/20212/000118070604000011/f10ka0403a.htm#Consolidated)

Maybe they'd be a good organization to take over?

[Macdiarmadillo]

Magna did not bail out Bay Meadows. The previous board sold off all the land the track sits on, paid themselves huge bonuses, and left. Magna only bought operating rights. That contract expired and likely was allowed to expire so the land company could take over and make a play for slots in the past election (lost badly).

A large chunk of the backside and the training track has been replaced by offices and condos. The new stable area placed in the infield had to be built otherwise there wouldn't be enough horses to run. No other improvements made, but you wouldn't expect MEC to put in money for something they don't own or won't last. So what was the plans about an entertainment complex, etc. for BM all about, the plan proposed for just about all of MEC's tracks?

So now BM's life is predicted to be about 3 years, the time it will take for the permits to clear.

MEC is all about wanting slots, even though Stronach himself has said otherwise, but has been so stated by MEC publicists. Notice that NYRA became interesting to them when slots were coming, like all the other tracks they've bought. And when slots come in, McSchell, you might be happy to be running in 6-horse fields in front of a couple hundred people like in Delaware and other tracks. We ain't going there, we ain't going to bet there.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Macdiarmadillo
Magna did not bail out Bay Meadows. The previous board sold off all the land the track sits on, paid themselves huge bonuses, and left. Magna only bought operating rights. That contract expired and likely was allowed to expire so the land company could take over and make a play for slots in the past election (lost badly).

A large chunk of the backside and the training track has been replaced by offices and condos. The new stable area placed in the infield had to be built otherwise there wouldn't be enough horses to run. No other improvements made, but you wouldn't expect MEC to put in money for something they don't own or won't last. So what was the plans about an entertainment complex, etc. for BM all about, the plan proposed for just about all of MEC's tracks?

So now BM's life is predicted to be about 3 years, the time it will take for the permits to clear.

MEC is all about wanting slots, even though Stronach himself has said otherwise, but has been so stated by MEC publicists. Notice that NYRA became interesting to them when slots were coming, like all the other tracks they've bought. And when slots come in, McSchell, you might be happy to be running in 6-horse fields in front of a couple hundred people like in Delaware and other tracks. We ain't going there, we ain't going to bet there.

" We" you must have worms..yes you will bet!! why?...Cause you love betting..Wont matter who owns the track..If there is a chance to cash a ticket...YOU will be there. As for me liking 6 horse fields..From a owners point..I love it..less horses to beat..As for having lots of people..Wont matter as long as they have internet and otb bettors like you

[the little guy]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
" We" you must have worms..yes you will bet!! why?...Cause you love betting..Wont matter who owns the track..If there is a chance to cash a ticket...YOU will be there. As for me liking 6 horse fields..From a owners point..I love it..less horses to beat..As for having lots of people..Wont matter as long as they have internet and otb bettors like you Now you've added insulting to your resume ( to go along with ignorance ). You claim people who see the Magna situation for what it is to be " Magna Bashers " which is in no way what we are. What we are are people who understand the situation and take it for what it really is - a man spending ridiculous amounts of money in the desperate hopes of garnering slot profits, period.

You are the opposite of actual " Magna Basher ", you are truly a " Magna Cheerleader ". What's funny is that Frank has done nothing to increase the paltry purses at Gulfstream, yet you claim to be an owner and love Frank. Perhaps insulting and ignorant are not your only attributes.

[melman]

Yes NYRA run the best day in and day out racing programs. No doubt about it in my mind so I can hardly be called a NYRA basher. However they are running NY tracks so does that not give them a great head start?? Let's look at the other factors involved here. This taken from today's NY Post. "The association (NYRA) indicted last December for its complicity in tax fraud by mutuel clerks, is operating under the guidance of a federal monitor, appointed as part of a deferred-prosecution agreement that lasts until July." Does this sound like a well run business to you?? Part of that agreement was for NYRA to be more "transparet" yet in two items that the public is aware of, the TVG deal and the Mid-Atlantic deal, we here that details of the terms are to remain "secret". What I am NOT saying is that I would like to see Frank take over, what I am saying is that I would like to see NYRA become more "transparent" just as they were instruted to by the federal moniter.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just because you or someone else says these two items should be more transparent, does not mean they aren't complying with the demands of the court appointed monitor.

Believe me, NYRA has been more than complicit with the demands of this court appointed monitor, so I will assume that their deals with TVG and the mid-atlantic states were approved by this monitor as well as whatever was or was not disclosed publicly.

And really, does it matter if the public knows the details of the TVG deal or the mid-atlantic deal? What difference would it make one way or the other to the guy going to track to place a bet? Or the owners, trainers or jockeys for that matter?

NYRA can't even sneeze without asking permission first. All this because a couple of tellers were using shorts in their cashbox as tax write offs, while a supervisor looked the other way. Doesn't sound like a reason to dispand the entire entity to me, but hey, what the hell do I know?

[the little guy]

The chasm between the truth at NYRA and people's perception of the situation is almost immeasurable. I don't understand how people buy this " criminal enterprise " crap because a few guys were betting out of their tills ( like this doesn't, or at least didn't, go on everywhere ). I'm not condoning the situation, but I'm also not overreacting, like so many others.

There are many things at NYRA that went on IN THE PAST that I find objectionable, but the current hierarchy has nothing to do with that. It is hard to imagine a stronger group of people in charge of a racing entity than Charlie Hayward, Bill Nader and Steve Duncker. These are not the typical " racing establishment " people, with their own personal agendas, that have too often infiltrated racing management throughout the country. There are many reasons to be optomistic, at least to me, about the NY racing situation.

[melman]

Guys the NYRA business side continues to bleed red ink. Can we agree on that?? And is the current NYRA team getting this corrected?? What I would like to see is the racing side of NYRA continue as they present the best day to day racing product. The question I have is who best to do this. The business side of NYRA appears to me an admitted outsider to be lacking.

[takeout]

Originally posted by the little guy
What's funny is that Frank has done nothing to increase the paltry purses at Gulfstream
Sure he has. He’s been trying to get slots. What else is increasing purses anywhere these days?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by the little guy
Now you've added insulting to your resume ( to go along with ignorance ). You claim people who see the Magna situation for what it is to be " Magna Bashers " which is in no way what we are. What we are are people who understand the situation and take it for what it really is - a man spending ridiculous amounts of money in the desperate hopes of garnering slot profits, period.

You are the opposite of actual " Magna Basher ", you are truly a " Magna Cheerleader ". What's funny is that Frank has done nothing to increase the paltry purses at Gulfstream, yet you claim to be an owner and love Frank. Perhaps insulting and ignorant are not your only attributes.

I am a owner sir,Im just giving my opinion..as for me being insulting and ignorant..YOUR crossing that line..

[Macdiarmadillo]

McSchell, you've got nothing but contempt for the bettors who ultimately put money in your pocket. So you don't like gamblers? If the anti-gambling people have their way, and there are plenty of those, you'd be done.

The California tracks get pretty much nothing from me, I'm at a simulcast site operated by the racing fairs organization, thank you, and I am playing other tracks. It's getting crowded from all the folks who used to go to the tracks. And it's not convenience, it's the tracks driving customers away. I talk to these folks; sounds like you wouldn't give them the time of day much less ask them what's up.

And I'm playing large fields, not fields of 5 or 6. I love betting where I have a fair shot and I can pick and choose my spots, besides. You may not care if your purse money comes from slots or not, but like Maryland figured out, you don't need horses to run slots. Other states will find a way to work this out over time and cut out racing. When Lotto was approved in Calif. and NO racetrack fought it, all the bodies disappeared from the tracks and never came back.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Contempt??..Dont like bettors????..What the hell are you talking about????
Havent had a bettor yet come to me and give me anything...Wouldnt you make money if I ran a horse and won and you bet???..I make nothing unless I hit the board! I just dont understand your post!!...Englighten me please

[the little guy]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Contempt??..Dont like bettors????..What the hell are you talking about????
Havent had a bettor yet come to me and give me anything...Wouldnt you make money if I ran a horse and won and you bet???..I make nothing unless I hit the board! I just dont understand your post!!...Englighten me please Well, if there's one thing you CLEARLY need, it's enlightenment. Unfortunately, for you, you really don't think about what posters try and tell you,

Who the hell do you think funds the purses that your horses run for? Can you possible be this unknowledgable ( i.e. ignorant ) to not realize this money comes from wagering? When your beloved Frank Stronach cuts purses at Gulfstream did you not think it was because of poor handle? Remember in the mid 90s when purses always went up late in the Gulfstream meet? That was because handle was strong. That was also before Frank bought the track.

[RXB]

Gulfstream had one tough meeting where they had to cut purses. But the next year, they had an excellent meeting and purses went up again.

Also, the main reason that Gulfstream's purses skyrocketed in the '90s is the same as the main reason why Fair Grounds' purses shot up: simulcasting. Fair Grounds in recent years has declined, and there was no ownership change there during the quick turnaround from feast to famine. Just a matter of simulcasting having basically hit its peak potential for those tracks.

[the little guy]

I'm well aware that simulcasting is the reason purses went up. But what is Simulcasting?


BETTING!

[RXB]

I'm aware of that, and I agree with you on that point. But you then went on an "it's Frank's fault" rant regarding the relative flattening of Gulfstream's revenues, and that isn't really the reason.

Churchill Downs is another place that experienced huge gains due to simulcasting in the '90s. As with GP and FG, the pace of growth has slowed in the past couple of years because simulcasting is pretty much everywhere now. Has nothing to do with the ownership/management suddenly going stupid.

[the little guy]

I was of the opinion that purses were cut last year due to lost revenue most likely as a result of Stronach's decision to put Magna tracks exclusively on Youbet. Perhaps I am mistaken. Regardless....rant? Trust me, I can rant, but that was hardly one.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by the little guy
Well, if there's one thing you CLEARLY need, it's enlightenment. Unfortunately, for you, you really don't think about what posters try and tell you,

Who the hell do you think funds the purses that your horses run for? Can you possible be this unknowledgable ( i.e. ignorant ) to not realize this money comes from wagering? When your beloved Frank Stronach cuts purses at Gulfstream did you not think it was because of poor handle? Remember in the mid 90s when purses always went up late in the Gulfstream meet? That was because handle was strong. That was also before Frank bought the track.

I have great respect for the bettors..that said I feel you are only partly right,Maybe the bettor's put the bread and butter on the table..BUT you did forget this!..What about the billions that HORSEMAN and OWNERS spend in this game to give you the bettor a good product..Here you cry about MEC spending billions on worthless acquisitions (YOUR opinion ),Im sure your a M GILL hater as well,I dont hear you squawking about CDI losing money last year, (or are you ignorant on those facts) Havent seenyou post them?? Plain and simple..YOU have NO respect for either horseman or the people that try to make something better.YOU are afraid of change..Every business loses money. MEC is still a mega machine..

[the little guy]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I have great respect for the bettors..that said I feel you are only partly right,Maybe the bettor's put the bread and butter on the table..BUT you did forget this!..What about the billions that HORSEMAN and OWNERS spend in this game to give you the bettor a good product..Here you cry about MEC spending billions on worthless acquisitions (YOUR opinion ),Im sure your a M GILL hater as well,I dont hear you squawking about CDI losing money last year, (or are you ignorant on those facts) Havent seenyou post them?? Plain and simple..YOU have NO respect for either horseman or the people that try to make something better.YOU are afraid of change..Every business loses money. MEC is still a mega machine.. You're hilarious. I'm not sure I've ever had so many words put in my mouth in such a short period of time. Once again, you just spew without any regard to reality or the truth.

1) I answered your remark suggesting bettors NEVER gave you money. That was what I was responding to. It is a fact that you were completely off base on this subject. Even you just agreed to that.

2) I NEVER made any general remarks about owners and horsemen, so anything and everything you are saying about me in this regard is a complete and total fabrication. I do believe Owners are an integral part of the game and never have and never would say otherwise. As for horseman, I have great respect for the hard working people of the backstretch, whomever they are, but they are employees paid by bettors and owners.

3) " Here you cry about MEC spending billions on worthless acquisitions (YOUR opinion ),"

When and where did I say that? NEVER, as usual. What I said was Stronach grossly overpaid for properties, which he has universally lost money on, in the hopes of getting slots at least somewhere. If you have an argument for that ACTUAL thought of mine I would be happy to entertain it.

4) Whether or not Churchill Downs Inc. lost money is not part of our discussion. I am well aware of the difficulties facing the industry. My comments regarding Magna were once again in response to yours, how Churchill fits into that specific situation is beyond me. But then again, so is virtually everything you say.

5) In the same vein as #4, you throw in a Michael Gill reference, just making an irrelevant assumption and comment. Whether or not I like him has nothing to do with what I was saying. But hey, you are proving the king of the non-sequitor.

6) You continually say about me and others here that we are afraid of change. You can say all sorts of things, completely irrelevant things, but that doesn't make them true. I try hard to get the industry to change, sometimes successfully, and I will continue to as much as possible.

7) One of my favorites..." Every business loses money ". They do? Are you sure you don't mean every business YOU have ever been involved with loses money? Because, and feel free to correct me on this one, I don't think this is the case.

Otherwise, as usual, great post!

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by the little guy
You're hilarious. I'm not sure I've ever had so many words put in my mouth in such a short period of time. Once again, you just spew without any regard to reality or the truth.

1) I answered your remark suggesting bettors NEVER gave you money. That was what I was responding to. It is a fact that you were completely off base on this subject. Even you just agreed to that.

2) I NEVER made any general remarks about owners and horsemen, so anything and everything you are saying about me in this regard is a complete and total fabrication. I do believe Owners are an integral part of the game and never have and never would say otherwise. As for horseman, I have great respect for the hard working people of the backstretch, whomever they are, but they are employees paid by bettors and owners.

3) " Here you cry about MEC spending billions on worthless acquisitions (YOUR opinion ),"

When and where did I say that? NEVER, as usual. What I said was Stronach grossly overpaid for properties, which he has universally lost money on, in the hopes of getting slots at least somewhere. If you have an argument for that ACTUAL thought of mine I would be happy to entertain it.

4) Whether or not Churchill Downs Inc. lost money is not part of our discussion. I am well aware of the difficulties facing the industry. My comments regarding Magna were once again in response to yours, how Churchill fits into that specific situation is beyond me. But then again, so is virtually everything you say.

5) In the same vein as #4, you throw in a Michael Gill reference, just making an irrelevant assumption and comment. Whether or not I like him has nothing to do with what I was saying. But hey, you are proving the king of the non-sequitor.

6) You continually say about me and others here that we are afraid of change. You can say all sorts of things, completely irrelevant things, but that doesn't make them true. I try hard to get the industry to change, sometimes successfully, and I will continue to as much as possible.

7) One of my favorites..." Every business loses money ". They do? Are you sure you don't mean every business YOU have ever been involved with loses money? Because, and feel free to correct me on this one, I don't think this is the case.

Otherwise, as usual, great post!


What Im trying to say sir is that MEC is trying hard to put on a good show, I made the statment about M Gill as he is also a hated person in the racing world because he likes to claim horses and nobody wants to give him stalls.I do understand the bettor is the guy who puts money in our pools but was trying to explain that the owners and trainers are equal in their commitment for the bettor.Seems to me that you guys love "Anything MEC" so you can throw him in the garbage can. Handles may be down but what if he never bought them...WOULD they still be in operation today?