Software Question

[mikesal57]

What program(s) do you use that can create daily files that is database quality to do extensive research with?

I know HSH & JCapper & RDSS can create a CSV file...

I also know Handifast can create one too, but the factors are limited(too few)

I figure the big commercial ones can do some sort of a database quality file...

What about the forgotten or the small fries still out there ?


Thxs Guys...

[Tom]

HTR has multipel export files - 6 or 7 of them,and also daily comma charts for all tacks.

Aside from a powerful program, the exports and charts alone are worth the monthly fees.

[ChartingHorseValue]

HTR allows you to export data files for the time that you are a member. Perhaps you can go back and purchase the files for the time you aren't a member but got to be expensive to do that.

[mikesal57]

I had a hunch HTR would be able to do it too....but didnt know how intense it was...

with the big boys out of the way..

None of the other small fries can do it?

[LongShot_Louie]

What program(s) do you use that can create daily files that is database quality to do extensive research with?

I know HSH & JCapper & RDSS can create a CSV file...

I also know Handifast can create one too, but the factors are limited(too few)

I figure the big commercial ones can do some sort of a database quality file...

What about the forgotten or the small fries still out there ?


Thxs Guys...


Post Time Daily (PTD) software outputs raw data files in cvs format. Their software puts out a Past Performance file, an Entrant File, a Race File, Classification File (Full description of entrant requirements text file) and a WorkOut File for each day's card. For an extra $.50 a card, you can download the results file. The daily cards are $1.50. BTW I am a database programmer (retired). There are things I wish they did differently, but overall the files are pretty good.

[mikesal57]

Post Time Daily (PTD) software outputs raw data files in cvs format. Their software puts out a Past Performance file, an Entrant File, a Race File, Classification File (Full description of entrant requirements text file) and a WorkOut File for each day's card. For an extra $.50 a card, you can download the results file. The daily cards are $1.50. BTW I am a database programmer (retired). There are things I wish they did differently, but overall the files are pretty good.

Thxs Louie...

But it not quite what I was looking for....


I'm looking for software that can take information and the developers factors for each horse with ranks and results and mesh them together for intense research.

EX:

Horse ....Rank early......Rank Late...........Rank Class.........ETC............ORDER

a...............5.................2............... ............3..................................... 2
b...............3.................4............... ............2..................................... 3
c...............1.................3............... ............4..................................... .4
d...............4.................5............... ............5..................................... .5
e...............2.................1............... ............1..................................... .1

[MJC922]

Thxs Louie...

But it not quite what I was looking for....


I'm looking for software that can take information and the developers factors for each horse with ranks and results and mesh them together for intense research.

EX:

Horse ....Rank early......Rank Late...........Rank Class.........ETC............ORDER

a...............5.................2............... ............3..................................... 2
b...............3.................4............... ............2..................................... 3
c...............1.................3............... ............4..................................... .4
d...............4.................5............... ............5..................................... .5
e...............2.................1............... ............1..................................... .1

In my case a lot of work went into getting things setup to be like that. It's all automated now but it's a lot of code. When a race gets 'processed' I have another excel worksheet that contains ranks like what you've shown. Each race with ranks and other details gets written to a sheet, When all races are processed from every card that total output eventually gets written to a csv file and emailed to me at midnight. At some point usually months later I will take all of those emails and combine them into one large csv file, bring that back into a new excel workbook and match up everyone with their eventual finish positions / odds in those races. Then it's time for some actual research like what you want to do. Good luck finding software that can do what you want.

[mikesal57]

In my case a lot of work went into getting things setup to be like that. It's all automated now but it's a lot of code. When a race gets 'processed' I have another excel worksheet that contains ranks like what you've shown. Each race with ranks and other details gets written to a sheet, When all races are processed from every card that total output eventually gets written to a csv file and emailed to me at midnight. At some point usually months later I will take all of those emails and combine them into one large csv file, bring that back into a new excel workbook and match up everyone with their eventual finish positions / odds in those races. Then it's time for some actual research like what you want to do. Good luck finding software that can do what you want.

Actually , HSH ,JCApper,HTR, RDSS does it already but at a high cost...

My post is asking if any other software does this at a nominal cost

RPG Optimun does some factor analysis but cant print it out....that program is something in the $200 range
With some ingenious work on my part I got something like below..
But the work is tedious getting to it...

[MJC922]

There should be a way for you to buy six months or so worth of races and do some research with it. It seems like you're open to using any software that can create the output if it's affordable. Don't they have differences in accuracy? I mean garbage in garbage out. No truer words were ever spoken. You use class rank one with junk software and you get the horse with the highest avg earning per start and a 20% WR or you use my top rank on class and get a 30% WR. Honestly if I didn't do all my own stuff and settle for nothing less I'd be looking at HSH.

[mikesal57]

There should be a way for you to buy six months or so worth of races and do some research with it. It seems like you're open to using any software that can create the output if it's affordable. Don't they have differences in accuracy? I mean garbage in garbage out. No truer words were ever spoken. You use class rank one with junk software and you get the horse with the highest avg earning per start and a 20% WR or you use my top rank on class and get a 30% WR. Honestly if I didn't do all my own stuff and settle for nothing less I'd be looking at HSH.

Dont be too keen jumping to HSH......I had it for 18 months

You say "garbage in garbage out"

that is exactly what I'm researching here ....the thing is at a "affordable price"...

The big commercial software goes thru HDW so that their files get encrypted..
The prices range $124-$140 per month..

Files I have, CSV providing programs I dont...

With a CSV file with the appropriate info can be using in "R" or Excel to determine if it is garbage.

[headhawg]

Files I have, CSV providing programs I dont...

With a CSV file with the appropriate info can be using in "R" or Excel to determine if it is garbage.From a developer's POV, exporting to csv is tantamount to giving away the store for free. I had serious thoughts about selling my programs, but the amount of money to be made isn't worth my time or the hassle. If I did, the programs wouldn't export to csv not because it's hard to do, but it doesn't make financial sense. Good luck Mike, but it is very unlikely to find a paid product that does a .csv export. It's hard enough to find new software that's any good regardless of the export capabilities because it's very difficult to justify the development time/cost to sales ratio.

[mikesal57]

From a developer's POV, exporting to csv is tantamount to giving away the store for free. I had serious thoughts about selling my programs, but the amount of money to be made isn't worth my time or the hassle. If I did, the programs wouldn't export to csv not because it's hard to do, but it doesn't make financial sense. Good luck Mike, but it is very unlikely to find a paid product that does a .csv export. It's hard enough to find new software that's any good regardless of the export capabilities because it's very difficult to justify the development time/cost to sales ratio.

Brian....

Why would you say "giving away the store for free" ?


SAy you coded 6 factors.....

EARLY LATE FORM CLASS SPEED CONNECTIONS(JKY/TRN)


They each come up with a value for each horse in each race......

So say after 1000 races , I put all this info into Excel with results
and come up with a system that uses...

(83% of SPEED) + (62% of EARLY) + ( 49% of CLASS) + (33% of CONNECTIONS) + ( 22% of LATE)

and I find your FORM rating non-significant...So that is out

what do you see as giving the store away?
your factors are proprietary and cant be deciphered
If not for the public ..Why wouldnt you want this info for yourself?

Mike

[headhawg]

I was trying to be subtle but I will be more direct: The csv file obviously contains the program's output. It would be near impossible to stop the sharing of the csv file which would mean fewer software sales.

And to your other question -- the research on what factors work should be done before the software is coded, not after (with the exception being fine-tuning).

[mikesal57]

I was trying to be subtle but I will be more direct: The csv file obviously contains the program's output. It would be near impossible to stop the sharing of the csv file which would mean fewer software sales.

I'm a little stumped here.....

The programs out put is

EARLY LATE FORM CLASS SPEED CONNECTIONS

What will the .csv file do in my hands if I dont have the software?

[headhawg]

Person A buys the software. He has the docs that explain the fields of the csv output. Person B likes things for free. He knows Person A and asks for the csv file and the doc describing the fields. Person B obtains this information and loads the csv file into Excel or Google Sheets. Person B now has the program's output without paying for it. Person B has friends that have the same thoughts about free stuff. Pretty soon it gets to be like this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCjmDI4AJlk

[mikesal57]

Person A buys the software. He has the docs that explain the fields of the csv output. Person B likes things for free. He knows Person A and asks for the csv file and the doc describing the fields. Person B obtains this information and loads the csv file into Excel or Google Sheets. Person B now has the program's output without paying for it. Person B has friends that have the same thoughts about free stuff. Pretty soon it gets to be like this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCjmDI4AJlk


Do you know what "proprietary" means ?


And YES....Person A buys program......and gives it to B C D E F G H etc..

You cant do anything about it....unless to register each one and stop the sharing...

But as to know what your coded factors are...they cant do that...

[headhawg]

Do you know what "proprietary" means ?


And YES....Person A buys program......and gives it to B C D E F G H etc..

You cant do anything about it....unless to register each one and stop the sharing...

But as to know what your coded factors are...they cant do that...Clearly you don't get it but yet you are implying that I am stupid and don't understand big words like "proprietary". Let me spell it out for you -- why in the f**k would a programmer want to do anything to reduce sales for a program that he/she has put tons of time into to provide unprotected output that anyone could share? You can't effing register a csv file -- it's unencrypted and not password-protected so it can be used in other software. Even if the program needs to be registered or has some other form of copy-protection the csv file cannot be protected as it would be unusable!!! Geezus, I'm done.

[mikesal57]

Clearly you don't get it but yet you are implying that I am stupid and don't understand big words like "proprietary". Let me spell it out for you -- why in the f**k would a programmer want to do anything to reduce sales for a program that he/she has put tons of time into to provide unprotected output that anyone could share? You can't effing register a csv file -- it's unencrypted and not password-protected so it can be used in other software. Even if the program needs to be registered or has some other form of copy-protection the csv file cannot be protected as it would be unusable!!! Geezus, I'm done.

Dont know why your getting in a tizzy here....

If your worried about sales , then dont sell it....but you cant stop people that want to improve their ROI's...

And for a fact , each of the big commercial guys commend users using their csv files for their research...

In JCapper , Jeff created a module to use info from "R" into his program...and wrote a detailed document.
If they aren't worried , then why are you....

[headhawg]

"I would like to raise two points..." (1:37)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJvqSbsPRj8

[mikesal57]

"I would like to raise two points..." (1:37)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJvqSbsPRj8

Do you want to talk about MISSILES?

[fast4522]

Clearly you don't get it but yet you are implying that I am stupid and don't understand big words like "proprietary". Let me spell it out for you -- why in the f**k would a programmer want to do anything to reduce sales for a program that he/she has put tons of time into to provide unprotected output that anyone could share? You can't effing register a csv file -- it's unencrypted and not password-protected so it can be used in other software. Even if the program needs to be registered or has some other form of copy-protection the csv file cannot be protected as it would be unusable!!! Geezus, I'm done.

This is a very interesting line in the subject matter, in the case of Handifast there are no sales. The persons ability to use the data only hurts people who have a business and are selling software and systems. The exported data from handifast I don't see useful from one user to the next because I thing everyone uses the program differently. I think the market for horse racing is so small that it is owned by HSH & HTR outright. Unless there is new light between the two mayor vendors there will be no business, all that is left is betting at the windows.