The Kentucky Derby this past year!

[Vinnie]

I just wanted to make some comments about this past years Kentucky Derby and I hope that many of you will as well, because just thinking about how the race evolved still blows me away in so many different ways. I don't know what you guys think but, when I see the replay(s) of this past years Derby the enormity of the race itself and the way that it unfolded just captivates me each and every time that I see it! As Awesome and Beastly a horse as Point Given is and was, I don't know if on the Very Best day of his short racing career he could of beaten Monarchos on that very day in May. Almost without question, I believe that Point Given was the most gifted horse in the field of all of the three year olds this past year, and maybe, just maybe, he should have won the Derby. He easily won the other two legs by taking the Preakness and the Belmont with seeming ease. However, on that day when the Run for the Roses was set into motion and the most torrid fractions ever were set for the quarter, half and 6 furlong marks in the races history, where "in the ideal sense" could Point Given have been setting in relationship to the rest of the field to give himself the very best opportunity to win that race?

I don't know if there was anywhere on the track that he could have been to get it done on that day. Those horses running so "insanely fast" on the front end in Song and a Prayer, Balto Starr and Congaree set up the race for Monarchos in the finest way possible. Of course it allowed him to run 4 ticks off of Secretariat's phenomenal 1:59 and change. WOW! I can remember it like it was just yesterday with Monarchos flying up through the bunch with such a rush it's as if the rest of the horses were setting still.

Of course, Point Given clearly showed how outstanding and versatile he was in winning the next two events in comfortable fashion. Monarchos is the type of pony who unfortunately needed to have the race set up for him in such a manner as was in the Derby to put forth his most remarkable effort.

That was something else that race, wasn't it?! :>)

[Observer]

It was an incredible race, but it leaves an empty feeling when a horse fails to repeat that kind of performance. I mean, he never even came close to making things interesting when meeting Point Given in the Preakness and Belmont. Okay, so he had turned in the same kind of tremendous move in the Florida Derby, but came up flat in the Wood Memorial prior to the Kentucky Derby. So maybe that flat Wood was more by Ward's design, but to never again come close to running such a brilliant race after the Kentucky Derby is discouraging.

As for the time of the Kentucky Derby .. if memory serves correct .. wasn't Churchill Downs a paved highway on Derby day 2001 with all the times exceptionally fast that day??

[Vinnie]

Observer,

I know exactly what you are saying. It is a shame that we will never see Monarchos ever again retain that same form. Hasn't he been retired? And, yes, the track was like I-80 on that day because it was incredibly fast. Those fractions set by the early speed burners were simply outrageous, weren't they? Those are some nice observations about the move that Monarchos displayed in the FL Derby last year. I guess we will never know as Paul Harvey says "the rest of the story"!

[Observer]

After a lackluster return from his layoff, Monarchos was injured while training for the Donn Handicap and retired. And yes, I totally agree .. the pace they threw down in Derby 2001 was absolutely insane, but then again, if the track was playing a few ticks faster than usual .. it may not have been that far off the norm. The Derby typically gets a pace set-up faster than what it should .. with a half going in about :46 and change. That's a lot to ask of any horse, let alone a young horse going 1 1/4 miles for the first time in the biggest field it will probably ever face.

[cj]

I don't recall the exact figures, but I do pace numbers for every race, and the Derby was in fact only slightly over par when adjusted for the track speed. Point Given was done in not by the pace, but by being hung very wide on both turns from the 17 hole. The other front runners have proven to just be not very good. Songandaprayer, Millinieum Wind, Balto Star, and Congaree have not won another race between them other than maybe ALW type for Balto Star. I've always felt Baffert and Stevens blew the Triple Crown. Baffert by taking the 17 post when the 1 was still available, and Stevens by pushing hard out of the gate and getting caught wide on both turns.


CJ

[Observer]

I don't really think the 17 hole is that bad, as long as you work yourself into the right spot before the turn. Let's face it, there is plenty of time before that first turn comes up, and there have been several horses to win in recent years from the auxilary gate. Thunder Gulch, Point Given's sire, won from post 16 in 1995, while Charismatic (1999) and Monarchos (2001) also won their roses from post 16. Grindstone (1996) won from post 15. Fusaichi Pegasus (2000) won from post 15, after originally drawing post 16 (Globalize, after drawing post 1, was scratched after his pony kicked him.).

The two biggest losses of Point Given's career came when they tried to alter his running style. Instead of just allowing the monsterous chestnut to settle into his own rhythm, they (Baffert and Stevens) decided to take him completely out of contention early in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile, only to fall short with a big florish by a rapidly diminishing nose, to a tiring and drifting Macho Uno, after going wide turning home. His other loss came when hustled through the opening stages in the Derby, like CJ says. Sometimes, the horse really does know best, and the humans get in the way!

[Vinnie]

Cjmilkowski, Observer,

Thanks a bunch for the input you guys. Through your own personal insights you have afforded me the opportunity to really look at that race from a standpoint of positioning, and so forth that I had never thought about prior to reading your posts. I really appreciate your thoughts on this race. I tell you what, there is some awfully knowledgeable people on this board and I am just beginning to post a lot more often.

Cjmilkowski, aren't you in the OKC area? I used to live in Mustang, OK, and I miss that area a great deal.

Take it EZ you guys!

[cj]

Vinnie...
When I'm in the States, I live in Moore, just outside of OKC, but I'm deployed right now.

As for last year's Derby, I agree that the outside isn't that bad, it was just the combination of getting caught wide while pressing the pace. Most of the winners Observer noted dropped in and saved ground before making a big move late. So I guess I should place most of the blame on Stevens, who I've never thought much of anyway. Also, Point Given also lost the GI Champagne while being inexplicably placed on the lead!

CJ

[Vinnie]

Cjmilkowski,

Thanks for the post. I used to know the Moore area pretty well because I had some friends that once lived out that way. I used to work at the Federal Transfer Center located at the Will Rogers Airport. I was out there when it activated in 1995. I miss it because it is about the closest I have been to home in a while. I am from Omaha, NE, but my job has taken me all over the United States. I really loved the OKC area. I know it is a bit off topic but, did you ever get over to Remington Park on occasion? I regret it that I never made it over there to watch a few races. You know, I was just getting started in my interest in horse racing before I transferred to New Jersey from OKC!I would have loved to watch a few races or more over there.

You are absolutely right about those horses that came from the far posts to the outside of the track. Most had put themselves in a decent position for a move well in advance in their races. Like yourself or Observer had said earlier, often I believe that horses are taken out of their appropriate style of running and because of this and far too many times the outcome reflects such actions.

You are overseas in Saudi? Be careful and take good care of yourself over there. I am a former Marine, so I know what it is like to be away from home for extended periods of time.

[Observer]

Out of my own curiosity, I went back to see what exactly Songandaprayer, Balto Star, Millennium Wind and Congaree all did after the 2001 Kentucky Derby.

Songandaprayer - 13th in the Derby, returned after a 2 month break to be 3rd in the Jersey Shore Breeders' Cup Classic. He never raced again and is retired.

Balto Star - 14th in the Derby, came back to run 8th in the Belmont. He then returned to win a Saratoga turf allowance in September, followed with a 2nd in the Ky Cup Classic, 12th in the BC Mile, 2nd in the Queens County and 5th in the Aqueduct Handicap.

Millennium Wind - 11th in the Derby, was off until November when 7th in the Skywalker and has not run since.

Congaree - 3rd in the Derby, came back to run 3rd in the Preakness, then 1st in the Swaps, and finally 3rd in the Jim Dandy. He has not run since.

In my opinion, most horses don't go on to do much after the Kentucky Derby, because most are in over their heads that day anyway. Songandaprayer and Balto Star didn't have many supporters for the Derby because of their running styles and apparent distance limitations.

Millennium Wind seemed to be a legitimate contender, however, had been plagued by chronic foot problems and a persistant rash all through his career. I would like to see him try turf.

Congaree may have pushed the envelope. After debuting as a 2yo in September 2000, he didn't start again until February 2001, when he broke his maiden. He came back to take an allowance event, then swept to victory in the Wood Memorial, giving him three wins in a row going to the Derby, which was just his fifth career start. If this horse does return at his best, he could be a serious threat in, at this point, a very thin older horse division.

[cj]

Observer:

I agree with most of what you said, except about Millinuem Wind...he never really ran a fast race except in the Blue Grass at Keeneland, and going wire to wire on that paved highway is hardly a ringing endorsement for future prospects. Many horses who can't close there come back to do well, but the frontrunners are usually big time overrated.

CJ

[Observer]

CJ,

Okay, maybe I was a little biased because I watched Millennium Wind from the day he debuted and always thought he had talent. First of all, he's by Cryptoclearance, out of Bali Babe, making him a half-brother to Charismatic. The day I saw his debut I was already thinking this horse was Derby material. Oh, and he had sold for a ton of money as a yearling .. something over a million.

Anyway, after overcoming a bit of a slow start to win his 7 furlong debut with an impressive move leaving the backstretch, he stretched out for his first try going two turns matching up against Point Given in the Hollywood Futurity, falling short by only a length. Not bad for a little horse light on experience. In his next three starts, he won the Santa Catalina and Blue Grass, with a second in the Louisiana Derby coming between those starts, so he went into the Derby having never finished worse than second in his 5 starts. Having been so lightly raced seemed to me to be the one major factor working against him, along with the physical issues.

I also have to admit, from a fan standpoint, I was really hoping to see Laffit Pincay, Jr. back in the Derby winner's circle at Churchill.

[cj]

No argument here, I just meant speed and pace figure wise, he never really matched up to the upper echelon.

CJ