huge increase in horse racing handle

[dilanesp]

Good news!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/gambling/sns-actnet-horse-racing-betting-handle-surge-coronavirus-20200510-kndtve6elrhnjcbge6wc6kpz4e-story.html%3foutputType=amp

[dilanesp]

One player who might have not been new to horse racing but was a new customer for NYRA Bets, opened an account, deposited $400 and won $500,000.

Love that.

[ronsmac]

Huge increase? I was under the impression that it was money redirected to the few tracks that are still running and that total handle has been down roughly 25% over the last two months. I may have been reading the reports incorrectly.

[thaskalos]

Huge increase? I was under the impression that it was money redirected to the few tracks that are still running and that total handle has been down roughly 25% over the last two months. I may have been reading the reports incorrectly.

There were TWO tracks running yesterday...instead of the twenty that usually run on a Saturday. If these two tracks were able to attract 75% of the usual Saturday handle...then this is an AMAZING development, IMO.

[classhandicapper]

This is basically proving that consolidation would work in terms of making the survivors much more profitable so they could use the extra free cash flow to invest back in the sport (which could theoretically include some combination of a lower take, better drug testing, higher purses, better maintained tracks, more advertising etc..)

It's just that no one one wants to deal with pain and downside of consolidation.

[thaskalos]

Imagine the mutuel pools if you replaced Will Rogers and Fonner with Belmont and Churchill.

[classhandicapper]

Imagine the mutuel pools if you replaced Will Rogers and Fonner with Belmont and Churchill.

Monster.

Imagine that and if many of the horses that are scattered around the country now were filling up fields at those tracks like they were at Oaklawn.

[thaskalos]

Is the "essential" racetrack crowd still allowed to bet on-track? It would be interesting to know how much money the "insiders" are betting.

[thaskalos]

Monster.

Imagine that and if many of the horses that are scattered around the country now were filling up fields at those tracks like they were at Oaklawn.

If the racing industry is smart (a wild exaggeration), then they will now realize the huge effect that the field size has on the mutuel handle. But...I won't be holding my breath. :bang:

[classhandicapper]

If the racing industry is smart (a wild exaggeration), then they will now realize the huge effect that the field size has on the mutuel handle. But...I won't be holding my breath. :bang:

The industry must have the data on that. It's too easy to track and control for class, distance, surface, track etc...

1. We aren't going to solve the horse shortage leading to small fields if most owners are losing more money than they are comfortable with given their finances, the pleasure they get from it, and other things that go into the decision.

2. We aren't going to increase handle unless we get bigger, more competitive, and higher quality fields that interest bettors (and preferably a lower take).

It almost seems like the industry is hell bent on self destruction or the economics can't work.

I know very little about the economics of breeding, but if you want more people to buy horses they have to be cheaper or the purses bigger. That way at least the up front and operating costs are easier to make back and the losses more limited.

But breeder's are trying to maximize prices and some owners are willing to bid up horse prices to levels that seem to guarantee large losses over the long haul. I can't see how that leads to more horses being bred or more owners wanting to get into the game.

Consolidation would probably reduce breeding further, but at least there would be fewer tracks and the quality would remain high. No amount of consolidation is going to stop the very best stallions and mares from keeping fully busy. It's the 2nd, 3rd, and lower tier stuff that might take a small hit.

This is a perplexing industry to me. The economics just don't seem to work.

[dilanesp]

Is the "essential" racetrack crowd still allowed to bet on-track? It would be interesting to know how much money the "insiders" are betting.

I don't think they are at Gulfstream, according to their protocols.

But, of course, anyone can bet with a smartphone.

[thaskalos]

2. We aren't going to increase handle unless we get bigger, more competitive, and higher quality fields that interest bettors (and preferably a lower take).


After witnessing the ongoing experiment at Will Rogers and Fonner Park...I am forced to believe that the "higher quality field" isn't a top priority as far as betting handle is concerned. The size and competitiveness of the fields are the key factors...IMO.

[Magician]

horse racing is doing well because there are no other sports to wager on. i suspect this could go on for a long time. professional sports, except maybe the nfl, are likely to see huge drop offs in wagering. watching the nba, nhl, or mlb with no fans is going to be like watching a bad scrimmage. totally unwatchable with zero energy.

[Secondbest]

horse racing is doing well because there are no other sports to wager on. i suspect this could go on for a long time. professional sports, except maybe the nfl, are likely to see huge drop offs in wagering. watching the nba, nhl, or mlb with no fans is going to be like watching a bad scrimmage. totally unwatchable with zero energy.

Unwatchable does not mean unbettable

[biggestal99]

Only a fool can say losing 25% of the handle.

And ALL of the on track handle is good news.

It’s terrible news.

It’s like cover feces with sugar and calling it a donut.

Allan

[Tom]

After witnessing the ongoing experiment at Will Rogers and Fonner Park...I am forced to believe that the "higher quality field" isn't a top priority as far as betting handle is concerned. The size and competitiveness of the fields are the key factors...IMO.

Agree 100%!

BUT, if we had far fewer tracks and filled up the allowance and handicap fields with quality horses, that would be something to see.

Who gives a crap about 5 horse field at Belmont? that will likely scratch down to 4?

Big fields, competitive fields.

And as this "experiment: shows, we DO NOT NEED TRACK ATTENDANCE to have huge handles.

Running 4-5 tracks at a time, scattered throughout the day and week, can only be good for the bettors.

And who else matters?

[Track Phantom]

Only a fool can say losing 25% of the handle.

And ALL of the on track handle is good news.

It’s terrible news.

It’s like cover feces with sugar and calling it a donut.

Allan
If it was projected, at the time all the tracks shut down, that the overall hit to handle would be 75% (i.e. with just a few tracks going, normal wagering at those tracks, the reduction in national handle would be 75%) than being at a reduction of "just" 25% would be considered good new. Keep your donut.

[cj]

If it was projected, at the time all the tracks shut down, that the overall hit to handle would be 75% (i.e. with just a few tracks going, normal wagering at those tracks, the reduction in national handle would be 75%) than being at a reduction of "just" 25% would be considered good new. Keep your donut.

Especially considering most other sports have lost ALL revenue currently.

[JerryBoyle]

After witnessing the ongoing experiment at Will Rogers and Fonner Park...I am forced to believe that the "higher quality field" isn't a top priority as far as betting handle is concerned. The size and competitiveness of the fields are the key factors...IMO.

This makes sense to me and is definitely how I feel about racing. I don't watch so much racing and follow it so closely that I notice or care how good a horse is in absolute terms. As long as it's running in a competitive race with 7+ runners, that's all I need.

[airford1]

Shut down ALL Gaming and Horse Racing is back to the Golden Age. Wont last long and for those who want bigger field size, well that wont last long either. Enjoy while you can.

[airford1]

Agree 100%!

BUT, if we had far fewer tracks and filled up the allowance and handicap fields with quality horses, that would be something to see.

Who gives a crap about 5 horse field at Belmont? that will likely scratch down to 4?

Big fields, competitive fields.

And as this "experiment: shows, we DO NOT NEED TRACK ATTENDANCE to have huge handles.

Running 4-5 tracks at a time, scattered throughout the day and week, can only be good for the bettors.

And who else matters?

The Owners need to be able to have a chance to make some money or break even or the horse population will continue to shrink.

[biggestal99]

If it was projected, at the time all the tracks shut down, that the overall hit to handle would be 75% (i.e. with just a few tracks going, normal wagering at those tracks, the reduction in national handle would be 75%) than being at a reduction of "just" 25% would be considered good new. Keep your donut.


What does the average ADW pay the tracks

On site wagering is 0.

It worse than the handle numbers.

Allan

[thaskalos]

What does the average ADW pay the tracks

On site wagering is 0.

It worse than the handle numbers.

Allan

We have Will Rogers and Fonner Park going today, Al. What would the mutuel handle have to be so you could consider it "Good News"?

[biggestal99]

We have Will Rogers and Fonner Park going today, Al. What would the mutuel handle have to be so you could consider it "Good News"?

Again how much of the increased handle is ending up in the tracks hands.

And the answer is not as much as you think.

Allan

[thaskalos]

Again how much of the increased handle is ending up in the tracks hands.

And the answer is not as much as you think.

Allan

This might be the catalyst that the tracks need in order to negotiate a better deal for themselves in their "profit-sharing" business with the ADWs. If the game officially opens up without any on-track bettors...don't you think the tracks will get a much better split than what they are getting now? And...who knows? This might eventually put an end to the rebates, and those irksome "Whales".

[biggestal99]

This might be the catalyst that the tracks need in order to negotiate a better deal for themselves in their "profit-sharing" business with the ADWs. If the game officially opens up without any on-track bettors...don't you think the tracks will get a much better split than what they are getting now? And...who knows? This might eventually put an end to the rebates, and those irksome "Whales".

I will agree with that with zero handle and all their revenue coming from the ADW. The content provider ie the track in question needs a better deal and prolly can NOT survive alone on ADW handle at the going rate. See the just concluded Oaklawn. They took a loss by running without people at the track.

Allan

[jay68802]

Shows why all the tracks need to get together. Create their own ADW, and cut out the any one else.

[biggestal99]

I will agree with that with zero handle and all their revenue coming from the ADW. The content provider ie the track in question needs a better deal and prolly can NOT survive alone on ADW handle at the going rate. See the just concluded Oaklawn. They took a loss by running without people at the track.

Allan

And viola bloodhorse ran an article this past Saturday.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/240030/does-the-adw-business-model-need-a-rehaul

”Fonner routinely sells out its Saturday cards but lost that significant on-site business because of COVID-19. With no fans allowed on site, Fonner CEO Chris Kotulak was delighted to see ADW-based fans across the country embrace the track, sparking record wagering that has averaged $2.43 million and reached $7.26 million April 5.

Despite those record figures, Kotulak noted that with the loss of on-track wagering—which generates a higher percentage of money from handle for the track and purses—Fonner is not exactly rolling in cash. With no in-state ADW wagering, the track doesn't benefit from source-market fees (based on wagers made in a certain radius of tracks). ADW handle of $2 million on Fonner racing generates just $30,000 for purses and the same amount for the track”

They get a whole 3%.

So 2,000,000 ADW handle generates a whole 30,000 for the horsemen at Fonner. That’s not a good business model for the track.

Allan

[thaskalos]

And viola bloodhorse ran an article this past Saturday.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/240030/does-the-adw-business-model-need-a-rehaul

”Fonner routinely sells out its Saturday cards but lost that significant on-site business because of COVID-19. With no fans allowed on site, Fonner CEO Chris Kotulak was delighted to see ADW-based fans across the country embrace the track, sparking record wagering that has averaged $2.43 million and reached $7.26 million April 5.

Despite those record figures, Kotulak noted that with the loss of on-track wagering—which generates a higher percentage of money from handle for the track and purses—Fonner is not exactly rolling in cash. With no in-state ADW wagering, the track doesn't benefit from source-market fees (based on wagers made in a certain radius of tracks). ADW handle of $2 million on Fonner racing generates just $30,000 for purses and the same amount for the track”

They get a whole 3%.

So 2,000,000 ADW handle generates a whole 30,000 for the horsemen at Fonner. That’s not a good business model for the track.

Allan

Old news. No one is saying that running without on-site bettors is a "good business model" for a track. But, no one also expected that Will Rogers and Fonner Park would generate this type of wagering interest nationwide. With only a few tracks remaining in action...even an idiot could figure out that the overall U.S. mutuel handle would decline drastically during this pandemic. But...how many people would have guessed that the national mutuel handle decline would be only 25%?

Given the circumstances...these are "good news" indeed, IMO.

[biggestal99]

Old news. No one is saying that running without on-site bettors is a "good business model" for a track. But, no one also expected that Will Rogers and Fonner Park would generate this type of wagering interest nationwide. With only a few tracks remaining in action...even an idiot could figure out that the overall U.S. mutuel handle would decline drastically during this pandemic. But...how many people would have guessed that the national mutuel handle decline would be only 25%?

Given the circumstances...these are "good news" indeed, IMO.

If it’s the only thing available to bet on bettors will bet.

Exchange handle was just 331,000 on the 4th at WRD.

Betfair is extremely happy with both PM and exchange markets.

At 3% to the track it’s almost free money.

Allan

[castaway01]

If it’s the only thing available to bet on bettors will bet.

Exchange handle was just 331,000 on the 4th at WRD.

Betfair is extremely happy with both PM and exchange markets.

At 3% to the track it’s almost free money.

Allan

Yeah, I'm sure Betfair is thrilled with their revenue plummeting.