Tracks due to commence Spring/Summer meets this month

[jameegray1]

So in the next few weeks we were expecting tracks to start opening up for their spring/summer meets: Woodbine, Finger Lakes, Evangeline, Hasting Park, Mountaineer, Belmont are all tracks I enjoy betting at.

Given a handful of tracks continue to race behind closed doors, anyone any idea whether we can expect any of the above to commence any racing?

[therussmeister]

Maybe Belmont, Laurel, and Churchill at some point, but that is cockeyed optimism, but despite the gangbuster business done by Fonner and Will Rogers I don't think it is financially feasible for any track that doesn't own an ADW to run a live meet without spectators. We are a long way away from allowing crowds.

[PaceAdvantage]

We are a long way away from allowing crowds.Which is asinine.

[dilanesp]

Maybe Belmont, Laurel, and Churchill at some point, but that is cockeyed optimism, but despite the gangbuster business done by Fonner and Will Rogers I don't think it is financially feasible for any track that doesn't own an ADW to run a live meet without spectators. We are a long way away from allowing crowds.

No way is Belmont or Laurel opening on time.

Churchill is a possibility though.

[the little guy]

No way is Belmont or Laurel opening on time.

Churchill is a possibility though.

So Churchill, which hasn't opened it's backstretch yet, could open in two weeks....but no chance for Belmont or Laurel.

You're too funny.

[dilanesp]

So Churchill, which hasn't opened it's backstretch yet, could open in two weeks....but no chance for Belmont or Laurel.

You're too funny.

Churchill is in Kentucky, TLG. That makes a big difference in at least two ways.

This story says we will find out on the 14th

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.horseracingnation.com/news/KHRC_trying_to_stay_ahead_of_the_curve_race_dates_ fluid_123

Your track isn't opening anytime soon, that's for damned sure.

[PaceAdvantage]

Your track isn't opening anytime soon, that's for damned sure.LOL

Whatever dude.

[the little guy]

LOL

Whatever dude.

As long as a track is at least 2000 miles away from him, he's an expert in all facets of their business.

Often wrong but never in doubt.

[PaceAdvantage]

I know....SA and GG were still operating at the height of the epidemic, but now suddenly, in no way shape or form will NYRA be running anytime soon....and THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE!

Meanwhile, GP, OP, TAM, RP & LA are still running...and this is DURING "lockdowns."

I wonder what "anytime soon" means to him.

[Elkchester Road]

I know....SA and GG were still operating at the height of the epidemic, but now suddenly, in no way shape or form will NYRA be running anytime soon....and THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE!

Meanwhile, GP, OP, TAM, RP & LA are still running...and this is DURING "lockdowns."

I wonder what "anytime soon" means to him. :ThmbUp:

[castaway01]

So in the next few weeks we were expecting tracks to start opening up for their spring/summer meets: Woodbine, Finger Lakes, Evangeline, Hasting Park, Mountaineer, Belmont are all tracks I enjoy betting at.

Given a handful of tracks continue to race behind closed doors, anyone any idea whether we can expect any of the above to commence any racing?

I'd say for news on these individual tracks, especially those that might not get as much coverage, if the racetrack has a Twitter that can give you an update on what is going on there.

[Elkchester Road]

Which is asinine. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

I would have to think, AT A MINIMUM, once they start lifting restrictions, all tracks scheduled to be running will be up ASAP with no live attendance, such as GP, TAM, OP, RP & LA are doing right now.

Then live attendance will be allowed on a case by case basis, depending on the local situation.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I would have to think, AT A MINIMUM, once they start lifting restrictions, all tracks scheduled to be running will be up ASAP with no live attendance, such as GP, TAM, OP, RP & LA are doing right now.

Then live attendance will be allowed on a case by case basis, depending on the local situation.

If the casinos at the racino tracks don't open back up, we could see 80%+ purse cuts at some tracks. That's a short-term issue, hopefully, but what about states desperate for money going after purses subsides (again in some cases like PA)?

[the little guy]

I know....SA and GG were still operating at the height of the epidemic, but now suddenly, in no way shape or form will NYRA be running anytime soon....and THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE!

Meanwhile, GP, OP, TAM, RP & LA are still running...and this is DURING "lockdowns."

I wonder what "anytime soon" means to him.

At a time when seemingly nobody has any concrete answers, we should be celebrating him shedding his unending wisdom on all topics in question. So what if he has no idea what he's talking about. It's not like that's ever stopped him in the past.

[dilanesp]

At a time when seemingly nobody has any concrete answers, we should be celebrating him shedding his unending wisdom on all topics in question. So what if he has no idea what he's talking about. It's not like that's ever stopped him in the past.

Andy, I don't claim to be an expert on this. But I do claim to be a reasonably intelligent person who knows something about the political actors involved, and someone who hasn't had his head in the sand about the virus as several people on this board have.

I really don't understand your dislike of me. Don't you have better things to do than follow me around waiting to pounce when you think I say something wrong? (Especially since I actually have a very high opinion of you as a handicapper and spokesperson for the sport.)

At any rate, since you guys are playing dumb, I will spell this out.

New York has a Democratic governor who takes the social distancing regulations VERY seriously. NYRA is also a part of the government, which means it answers to the State of New York in a way that few other racetrack operators do.

(By the way, since Andy is so obsessive about me, I might add that I was totally right and he was totally wrong in a discussion of NYRA that we had on this board. It has been held, BY COURT CASES, several times, to be a "state actor", i.e., part of the government. But he chastised me for saying it. So this narrative that he has that I am always wrong and he is always right is false. End of digression.)

Belmont's opening day, in theory, is April 24, 2020. There's no way Belmont Park opens on April 24, 2020. New York State is assuredly still under lockdown until at least May 1, 2020, and probably May 15 or later, and NYRA had positive tests for coronavirus on site, which is why Aqueduct had to shut down.

In contrast, Churchill has two things NYRA doesn't have. It is in a red state, where there has been less social distancing, and it is in a state that bends over backwards for its racing industry, unlike New York.

That doesn't guarantee that Churchill will be able to open on time, and if you notice, I didn't say it did. It does, however, make the odds more likely than it does from TLG's employer, which will be shut down for a while yet to come.

Oh well, I guess that will give him more time to come on this board and trash me.

[dilanesp]

By the way, here's the Bloodhorse, not exactly a critic of NYRA, 16 hours ago:

it seems a foregone conclusion that the Elmont oval will open no sooner than May

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/239532/orourke-discusses-nyras-challenges-as-covid-19-rages

But hey, continue to tell me how I don't know what I am talking about. :)

[thaskalos]

Andy, I don't claim to be an expert on this. But I do claim to be a reasonably intelligent person...


You've always been prone to exaggeration...

[the little guy]

This is a time of insane uncertainty. NOBODY knows the answers to questions you constantly answer here with virtual certainty. It's not personal, we don't know each other at all, but it's as though you are the only one here that doesn't see this. You essentially have reveled in being negative at a time when we could all use at least some optimism. Nobody is looking for saccharine insincerity, but the constant negativity, about things you really can't possibly know anything about is tiresome, and ( at least for me ) the best way to deal with that is to laugh about the absurdity of it all.

I hope everyone on this board, and all their loved ones, stay safe. I hope that everyone in the racing ecosystem is able to do the same. I look forward to being able to race again in some reasonably short period of relative time. It's nice that people have an oasis like this to go to at any time, but especially at times where distractions are at a premium, and I guess we will all have to learn to accept that different people deal with that in differing ways.

[Jeff P]

...I hope everyone on this board, and all their loved ones, stay safe. I hope that everyone in the racing ecosystem is able to do the same. I look forward to being able to race again in some reasonably short period of relative time. It's nice that people have an oasis like this to go to at any time, but especially at times where distractions are at a premium, and I guess we will all have to learn to accept that different people deal with that in differing ways.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:


-jp

.

[ReplayRandall]

You've always been prone to exaggeration...And that's a huge understatement....:cool:

[Clocker]

Meanwhile, GP, OP, TAM, RP & LA are still running...and this is DURING "lockdowns."




Also FON and WRD. At the risk of bringing up politics other than in off-topic, how many of those are in red states? Florida is often called a purple state because it flip-flops back and forth between blue and red in the long term. In 2016, Florida went red, for Trump.

[ReplayRandall]

Also FON and WRD. At the risk of bringing up politics other than in off-topic, how many of those are in red states? Florida is often called a purple state because it flip-flops back and forth between blue and red in the long term. In 2016, Florida went red, for Trump.What is your point?

[Clocker]

What is your point?


My point is that politics is an important factor in racing and the regulation thereof. Who makes the ultimate decision on go or no-go for racing?

[ReplayRandall]

My point is that politics is an important factor in racing and the regulation thereof. Who makes the ultimate decision on go or no-go for racing?So what is the solution that would stop political interference, which leads to the detriment of horse racing?

[PaceAdvantage]

Andy, I don't claim to be an expert on this. But I do claim to be a reasonably intelligent person who knows something about the political actors involved, and someone who hasn't had his head in the sand about the virus as several people on this board have.

I really don't understand your dislike of me. Don't you have better things to do than follow me around waiting to pounce when you think I say something wrong? (Especially since I actually have a very high opinion of you as a handicapper and spokesperson for the sport.)

At any rate, since you guys are playing dumb, I will spell this out.

New York has a Democratic governor who takes the social distancing regulations VERY seriously. NYRA is also a part of the government, which means it answers to the State of New York in a way that few other racetrack operators do.

(By the way, since Andy is so obsessive about me, I might add that I was totally right and he was totally wrong in a discussion of NYRA that we had on this board. It has been held, BY COURT CASES, several times, to be a "state actor", i.e., part of the government. But he chastised me for saying it. So this narrative that he has that I am always wrong and he is always right is false. End of digression.)

Belmont's opening day, in theory, is April 24, 2020. There's no way Belmont Park opens on April 24, 2020. New York State is assuredly still under lockdown until at least May 1, 2020, and probably May 15 or later, and NYRA had positive tests for coronavirus on site, which is why Aqueduct had to shut down.

In contrast, Churchill has two things NYRA doesn't have. It is in a red state, where there has been less social distancing, and it is in a state that bends over backwards for its racing industry, unlike New York.

That doesn't guarantee that Churchill will be able to open on time, and if you notice, I didn't say it did. It does, however, make the odds more likely than it does from TLG's employer, which will be shut down for a while yet to come.

Oh well, I guess that will give him more time to come on this board and trash me.Head in the sand...LULZ

Funny how all these figures are being MAJORLY REVISED DOWN...HUGELY INFLATED figures that had SOCIAL DISTANCING ALREADY BAKED INTO THEM NO LESS....yeah...some of us have our heads in the sand alright...

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way, here's the Bloodhorse, not exactly a critic of NYRA, 16 hours ago:



https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/239532/orourke-discusses-nyras-challenges-as-covid-19-rages

But hey, continue to tell me how I don't know what I am talking about. :)MAY?!?!

The way you were talking IN THIS THREAD ("Your track isn't opening anytime soon, that's for damned sure."), it sounded like SARATOGA was in serious jeopardy.

May is NOTHING....it's only a few weeks away....when you said NOT ANYTIME SOON FOR DAMNED SURE I had no idea you meant May....

Now that I know this, I take back everything I said.

[mountainman]

Nothing here to report. But then again, I exist far outside Mnr's loop and utterly refuse to make phone calls and burrow my way in. My superiors have more important concerns than holding my hand and telling me bedtime stories. I am the undisputed heavyweight champ when it comes to minding my own business.

I do, however, think that us conducting a race meet presents certain issues that major tracks won't have to face-or at least to the same degree.

But I am ITCHING to resume work.

[SandyW]

This is a time of insane uncertainty. NOBODY knows the answers to questions you constantly answer here with virtual certainty. It's not personal, we don't know each other at all, but it's as though you are the only one here that doesn't see this. You essentially have reveled in being negative at a time when we could all use at least some optimism. Nobody is looking for saccharine insincerity, but the constant negativity, about things you really can't possibly know anything about is tiresome, and ( at least for me ) the best way to deal with that is to laugh about the absurdity of it all.

I hope everyone on this board, and all their loved ones, stay safe. I hope that everyone in the racing ecosystem is able to do the same. I look forward to being able to race again in some reasonably short period of relative time. It's nice that people have an oasis like this to go to at any time, but especially at times where distractions are at a premium, and I guess we will all have to learn to accept that different people deal with that in differing ways.

God bless you Andy you always make a lot of sense with your observations,
this is something that almost all of us have never experienced before and there are no reasons that any of us should be fighting with each other. We all have to say a pray and stick together until this is over. I can't wait until I see you on the set handicapping the races for us. There is no reason anybody should have anything bad to say about you as you have always shown kindness in your conversations and actions.

[dilanesp]

This is a time of insane uncertainty. NOBODY knows the answers to questions you constantly answer here with virtual certainty. It's not personal, we don't know each other at all, but it's as though you are the only one here that doesn't see this. You essentially have reveled in being negative at a time when we could all use at least some optimism. Nobody is looking for saccharine insincerity, but the constant negativity, about things you really can't possibly know anything about is tiresome, and ( at least for me ) the best way to deal with that is to laugh about the absurdity of it all.

I hope everyone on this board, and all their loved ones, stay safe. I hope that everyone in the racing ecosystem is able to do the same. I look forward to being able to race again in some reasonably short period of relative time. It's nice that people have an oasis like this to go to at any time, but especially at times where distractions are at a premium, and I guess we will all have to learn to accept that different people deal with that in differing ways.


I hope you are safe too.

But "you aren't being optimistic enough" is a different critique from "you are wrong" or "you are always wrong".

NOTHING I have said here about the virus has been a product of anything other than obvious publicly available information + basic reasoning skills. And I have been right. I haven't "reveled" in it at all- it's just super-obvious that (1) we aren't having sports events with spectators for awhile and (2) horse racing's solution, running without spectators, requires both a pliant government (which 3 tracks in California didn't have) plus some luck on the virus front (which you guys didn't have in NY). For the record, I think Gulfstream's rules are reasonable and am happy they are still racing, although I think even restrictive rules have proven a tough sell in blue states.

[dilanesp]

MAY?!?!

The way you were talking IN THIS THREAD ("Your track isn't opening anytime soon, that's for damned sure."), it sounded like SARATOGA was in serious jeopardy.

May is NOTHING....it's only a few weeks away....when you said NOT ANYTIME SOON FOR DAMNED SURE I had no idea you meant May....

Now that I know this, I take back everything I said.

May is not the scheduled opening.

That's a very pro-industry publication, so of course they aren't going to say July. My point was even the honks at the Blood Horse have written off Belmont opening on time, which means that prediction is safe.

[NTamm1215]

The ironic thing about this conversation is that the date for the CD backstretch to open has now been postponed twice, and the governor of KY basically scoffed at the idea of racing resuming anytime soon. He didn’t acknowledge the possibility of racing with no spectators, the president of Churchill Downs Racetrack did. And Kentucky is not expecting a peak in deaths until closer to the end of April.

Whatever track opens next is likely to be one with an additional revenue stream like an ADW and/or a purse account that’s not heavily reliant on slots. I’m sure NYRA would love to re-open at Belmont ASAP, even with no fans. Hell, Cuomo seemed perfectly happy to allow racing to continue at Aqueduct until a backstretch worker tested positive. At that point NYRA stopped racing without the state having to be involved.

That seems to be the issue that is often overlooked when the virus’ effect on racing is discussed on this board. If you’re getting hung up on fans being there, you’re going to envision it never happening for the rest of 2020. There will have to be major racing without fans. It’s quite simple. I don’t know how long it’ll last and, quite honestly, prognosticating about it is boorish (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157083&page=4). When it is done so on this board with regularity in such an authoritative fashion, it is tiresome. Reference post #51 in the hyperlink.

[classhandicapper]

From what I gather, one problem with CD opening again is that a lot of the trainers and backstretch workers will ship in from out of state. So no matter how well Kentucky is doing controlling the spread of the virus now and how friendly the state is to racing, that adds risk and complicates the situation.

I guess because of the season, the same would be true of Belmont even if not as many ship in.

Does anyone know if there have been any more positives among backstretch workers in NY?

[classhandicapper]

If the casinos at the racino tracks don't open back up, we could see 80%+ purse cuts at some tracks. That's a short-term issue, hopefully, but what about states desperate for money going after purses subsides (again in some cases like PA)?

This is probably not as easy a calculation as people realize.

Assume I have a horse with some ALW or Claiming conditions. I can give him a break on a farm and save money waiting for things to return to some level of normalcy or deal with much higher daily expenses keeping him in training only to potentially blow some of my conditions at a very depressed purse levels when racing returns.

[clicknow]

I was hoping for Prairie Meadows? I know their casino is closed now, maybe in next few weeks they will open racing? I always play that track right after Oaklawn ends......

[Afleet]

Oaklawn casino set to open 4/30 per their website. Ark derby open to the public?

[dilanesp]

The ironic thing about this conversation is that the date for the CD backstretch to open has now been postponed twice, and the governor of KY basically scoffed at the idea of racing resuming anytime soon. He didn’t acknowledge the possibility of racing with no spectators, the president of Churchill Downs Racetrack did. And Kentucky is not expecting a peak in deaths until closer to the end of April.

Whatever track opens next is likely to be one with an additional revenue stream like an ADW and/or a purse account that’s not heavily reliant on slots. I’m sure NYRA would love to re-open at Belmont ASAP, even with no fans. Hell, Cuomo seemed perfectly happy to allow racing to continue at Aqueduct until a backstretch worker tested positive. At that point NYRA stopped racing without the state having to be involved.

That seems to be the issue that is often overlooked when the virus’ effect on racing is discussed on this board. If you’re getting hung up on fans being there, you’re going to envision it never happening for the rest of 2020. There will have to be major racing without fans. It’s quite simple. I don’t know how long it’ll last and, quite honestly, prognosticating about it is boorish (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157083&page=4). When it is done so on this board with regularity in such an authoritative fashion, it is tiresome. Reference post #51 in the hyperlink.

1. We're bettors. We prognosticate.

2. The idea that NYRA, which is itself a government agency, made it's decision to shut down independent of the government is just obviously wrong.

3. I never said CD would reopen, just that it has a better shot at reopening sooner than Belmont.

4. There's nothing wrong with Gulfstream's protocols for running without fans. But (1) owners and VIP's have to accept them, and (2) political appointees in blue states have been unsympathetic. So far it has been a difficult task.

[dilanesp]

Oaklawn casino set to open 4/30 per their website. Ark derby open to the public?

Any government official that allows a live casino to fully reopen on 4/30 is reckless.

[clicknow]

Oaklawn casino set to open 4/30 per their website.

That message has been up for a while from when they first decided to close the casino which was on March 30th ...actually there was a directive before that on March 16th for 2 weeks, then it was changed again:
https://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/images/uploads/pdf/ADH_Casinos_Directive.pdf

The message actually does not say it is "set to open."
It says "Oaklawn's casino will remain closed until April 30th."

Not the same thing if you parse it. Read those 2 statements and realize that they do not actually say the same thing. ;)


Cella basically says they will continue to monitor on a day to day basis. Since IHME predicts the peak of covid will hit AR between April 25th and April 30th, I suspect the date will be amended again, either by the health department or the governor......who knows.

Just my thoughts. school was only supposed to be closed for 2 weeks too and now it's the rest of the year.

[Blenheim]

This is probably not as easy a calculation as people realize.

Assume I have a horse with some ALW or Claiming conditions. I can give him a break on a farm and save money waiting for things to return to some level of normalcy or deal with much higher daily expenses keeping him in training only to potentially blow some of my conditions at a very depressed purse levels when racing returns.

On the other hand, if you keep said ALW or claiming conditions horse in training and in sharp condition while dealing with "much higher daily expenses," the horse will have a conditioning edge over the competition when racing resumes and if well placed, may pick off several races while in top condition.

Take the chance, keep em' sharp and fit, when the opportunity arises, and it will, you'll have the horse w/the conditioning edge; you can capture the purse[s] and may get some good odds at the windows. :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

2. The idea that NYRA, which is itself a government agency, made it's decision to shut down independent of the government is just obviously wrong.



The NYRA is not a government agency, it is a private corporation.

The New York Racing Association, Inc. (NYRA) is the not-for-profit corporation that operates the three largest Thoroughbred horse racing tracks in the state of New York, United States: Aqueduct Racetrack in South Ozone Park, Queens; Belmont Park in Elmont; and Saratoga Race Course in Saratoga Springs.

The New York Racing Association is the successor to the Greater New York Association, a non-profit racing association created in 1955. NYRA is separate from the governing body that oversees racing in New York, the former New York State Racing and Wagering Board (now the New York State Gaming Commission).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Racing_Association

While I assume that the New York State Gaming Commission has the authority to shut down racing, it doesn't have the authority to tell a private corporation that it can't shut down.

[HHE10]

I wouldn’t mind if they started up racing again, but still without the fans. At least it would keep the place more secure and not spread the virus even more. I’m hoping at least 1 track opens up in Canada as all of them are still shut down, probably until the end of summer. My 3 y/o I like is missing out on a lot of races this summer and not sure how they will make up those races. Maybe if the races are cancelled for the entire summer, you can host them next year (maybe like half of what the purse is) so if a race is $1 million, they split it for the 3yo who missed it and are now 4yo and have the rest of the 1/2 million for the “real” 3yo that can still race in that race.

Hopefully I can see my local racetrack Grand River open up and have some fun for my inaugural 18th birthday of betting :ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

On the other hand, if you keep said ALW or claiming conditions horse in training and in sharp condition while dealing with "much higher daily expenses," the horse will have a conditioning edge over the competition when racing resumes and if well placed, may pick off several races while in top condition.

Take the chance, keep em' sharp and fit, when the opportunity arises, and it will, you'll have the horse w/the conditioning edge; you can capture the purse[s] and may get some good odds at the windows. :ThmbUp:


I agree. The flip side to what I said is that since some barns have opted to take some of their horses to a farm to save money, there might be some easy spots when racing resumes. But again, "if" the purse is much lower you are burning through a condition you can't get back for much less money than if you waited and won later for a lot more money.

That's why I said it's not so easy to decide.

My partners and I sent 1 to a farm and kept 1 in training. The 1 that's still in training is unraced and needs the work anyway. He hasn't even had his first breeze since coming back off a minor injury. So we have plenty of time to see what happens with him. The other was probably due for a freshening anyway even though we had turf in mind if they didn't cancel. It could be a blessing in disguise giving him some time off.

[therussmeister]

I agree. The flip side to what I said is that since some barns have opted to take some of their horses to a farm to save money, there might be some easy spots when racing resumes. But again, "if" the purse is much lower you are burning through a condition you can't get back for much less money than if you waited and won later for a lot more money.



If the purses are drastically lower, then when we get back to normal they can simply say those reduced purse races don't count regarding conditions.

[Tom]

By the way, here's the Bloodhorse, not exactly a critic of NYRA, 16 hours ago:



https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/239532/orourke-discusses-nyras-challenges-as-covid-19-rages

But hey, continue to tell me how I don't know what I am talking about. :)

Which is about when it always opens.
Last few days of April, first few of May.

Great insight! :headbanger:

[Tom]

So what is the solution that would stop political interference, which leads to the detriment of horse racing?

There is none.
Hose racing is not on anyone's list of essential businesses.
Even with out pandemics.

[Tom]

After May 5, Ark Derby Day, I don't really see any new tracks running.
GP, of course, Tampa - maybe extend?

Mth I heard July 4th, but nothing else for sure.
I am prepared for next to no racing for a while.
GP is not on my list to play even it is the only track running. :puke:

MY predictions -

CD cancels the spring meet and opens for the fall.
Bel opens in July
FL opens in July
Parx opens in July
WO opens in July
No clue as to anyone else.

All with no live attendance.

[Robert Fischer]

MAY?!?!
he dropped the hammer w/ that quote

unintentional comic relief :pound:


Dilanesp isn't way off base, but the tired shtick has already been well covered in this thread. :ThmbUp: On a positive note, there's obviously some geniune care involved, about the safety of the participants and fans w/ the social distancing concerns voiced.:ThmbUp:

(we're all) Hoping for the best. Continuing to follow what is offered. Everybody is trying to adapt and regain some normalcy, and we're all doing the best we can.

[Rackon]

From what I gather, one problem with CD opening again is that a lot of the trainers and backstretch workers will ship in from out of state. So no matter how well Kentucky is doing controlling the spread of the virus now and how friendly the state is to racing, that adds risk and complicates the situation.

I guess because of the season, the same would be true of Belmont even if not as many ship in.

To add to Class’s point, while KY is definitely a red state, it has a Democratic governor, and he’s serious about social distancing:

https://www.newsweek.com/kentucky-governor-says-person-churchgoers-will-have-license-plates-recorded-forced-quarantine-1497380

[Jeff P]

So what is the solution that would stop political interference, which leads to the detriment of horse racing?

In my opinion:

The 'solution' requires qualities horse racing has not really demonstrated since (I don't know) the end of World War II.

Of course I'm talking about leadership, vision, and a willingness to think outside the box.

After the peak, after stats for new cases daily and new hospitalizations daily are clearly trending downward:

Government officials are going to try opening up various sections of the economy.

However, I don't think government officials will likely risk doing that all at once.

Instead, I think they will do it cautiously - one individual piece of the economy at a time.


From a high level --

What if industry decision makers and government health officials were to work together and develop a plan to conduct 6-9 months of live racing (essential personnel only) at a track or tracks away from major population centers where the stated objectives are to prove you as a plant operator can in fact:


Put protocols in place to create and maintain a secure perimeter.


Enforce your protocols.


Quickly deal with any pockets of outbreak within your secure perimeter by testing, contract tracing, and isolating those who have tested positive.


Produce a quality product while adhering to the above.

The details/ground level stuff will need to be hashed out with government health officials beforehand.

But in my opinion, after the number of new cases peaks and it looks like the worst may be behind us:

Something like this may not only be workable at a track or two away from major population centers -- but government officials in some states may even jump at the chance to get behind such an effort.

I say that because government officials ARE going to need examples they can point to where individual companies have proven it is in fact possible to operate a plant or plants successfully in a post covid-19 world.

Can thoroughbred racing rise to the occasion and be one of those examples?

Color me naive but I think the answer might be yes.


-jp

.

[Afleet]

Any government official that allows a live casino to fully reopen on 4/30 is reckless.

my mistake didnt mean to spread misinformation-there is enough of that going around

[NorCalGreg]

I'd gladly settle for thoroughbreds at Los Alamitos

[dilanesp]

The NYRA is not a government agency, it is a private corporation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Racing_Association

While I assume that the New York State Gaming Commission has the authority to shut down racing, it doesn't have the authority to tell a private corporation that it can't shut down.

Sigh. We have been through this. Whether an agency is part of the government is determined by the courts, based on whether it weilds government power. Not based on whatever it's official propaganda is.

Here's Stevens v. NYRA, one of SEVERAL cases to hold NYRA is part of the government:

the Court is persuaded, after reviewing the parties' memoranda, affidavits, and depositions, as well as the relevant authorities, that it is likely that plaintiff will establish state action under the symbiotic relationship test at trial.

In Halpern v. Lomenzo, supra, 81 Misc.2d at 472, 367 N.Y.S.2d 653, the court determined that under the symbiotic relationship test defendant NYRA's conduct constitutes state action primarily because defendant's "ability to purchase and improve its physical plants and conduct its day-to-day business activity was and is completely dependent upon state action, indeed, upon the benevolence of the Legislature." The court examined the early legislative enactments which authorized tax deferrals and increases in defendant's share of the wagering pool in order to discharge defendant's indebtedness. Justice Stecher concluded:


"The symbiosis between the State and the NYRA is thus apparent: the New York Racing Association was created under a law whose purpose, in part, was to enable the State to `derive a reasonable revenue for the support of government' (N.Y. Const, art I, § 9, par 1); indeed the NYRA is substantially the only vehicle through which the State procures revenue from thoroughbred horse racing; and the State's deferral and relinquishment of tax revenues to which the State was and is entitled is the principal source of the NYRA's ability to finance both its capital and operating expenses. `The State has so far insinuated itself into a position of interdependence with [the business establishment] that it must be recognized as a joint participant in the challenged activity, which, on that account, cannot be considered to have been so "purely private" as to fall without the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment' (Burton v. Wilmington Parking Auth., 365 U.S. 715, 725 [81 S. Ct. 856, 862, 6 L. Ed. 2d 45], supra; see also Cooper v. Aaron, 358 U.S. 1, 4 [78 S. Ct. 1401, 1403, 3 L. Ed. 2d 5 (1958)])."
Id. at 473, 367 N.Y.S.2d 653.

The interrelationship between the state and defendant is in fact even closer than that described by the court in Halpern. In a real sense, defendant is merely a conduit through which money passes from the betting public to the state's coffers. Defendant is a non-profit association which the legislature has prohibited from distributing money to its shareholders. Thus, after defendant covers its expenses, all of defendant's putative "profits" are transferred to the state in the form of a "franchise fee." Viewing defendant as a conduit for state revenues is consistent with the legislature's declared purpose in creating defendant of providing "reasonable revenue for the support of government." N.Y.Racing Law § 208(9) (d) (4).[4] Moreover, by authorizing the creation of defendant, the legislature appears deliberately to have placed the power, prestige, and good name of the state behind defendant in order to assure the betting public that racing and wagering are conducted legitimately. As Judge Weinfeld recognized in the area of harness racing:


"The owners of the raceways, no less than the state and its official agency, the State Racing Board, have a great stake in maintaining and protecting the sport's integrity against those who would despoil it. The state's interest essentially reflects the public interest that sports be honestly conducted, which extends to the avoidance of even the appearance of impropriety in connection with pari-mutuel betting. The state also has a substantial monetary interest since it receives vast *173 sums from the proceeds of racing meets."
Gilmour v. New York State Racing & Wagering Bd., 405 F. Supp. 458, 460 (S.D. N.Y.1975). Thus, in enacting defendant's enabling law, the legislature declared that defendant must utilize its facilities and revenues to establish "thoroughbred racing and pari-mutuel betting on such racing in New York State on such footing that it will command the interest as well as the confidence and favorable opinion of the public." N.Y.Racing Law § 208(9) (d) (4).[5] In keeping with the legislative purpose, it is not surprising that the State Tax Commission maintains a tax office at defendant's tracks in order to audit the pari-mutuel handle. In addition to placing its imprimatur on defendant, the state is entangled with defendant's board of trustees and its property. The Racing Board must approve and may remove defendant's trustees. The state granted the board of trustees the authority to appoint special policemen a power typically reserved to cities and states. See Fitzgerald v. Mountain Laurel Racing, Inc., 464 F. Supp. 263, 267-68 (W.D.Pa.1979) (holding that racing association's conduct in evicting plaintiff constituted state action under Jackson v. Metropolitan Edison Co.'s "nexus" test because, inter alia, state conferred on racing association power to employ security personnel with powers and duties of peace officers), aff'd on other grounds, 607 F.2d 589, 600 n. 14 (3d Cir.1979) (expressing no opinion on delegation factor). Upon dissolution of defendant, the governor is required to distribute defendant's net assets.

Beyond these factors which the court in Halpern did not discuss, the symbiotic relationship between the state and defendant has grown closer since Halpern was decided in 1975. For example, in 1977 the Racing Law was amended to require the governor to appoint three members to defendant's 20 member board of trustees. More significantly, in 1983 the legislature created the Thoroughbred Racing Capital Investment Fund, a state agency which loans money to defendant to improve defendant's racing facilities and thereby increase the state's revenues. See L.1983 ch. 1007, § 1 (statement of legislative findings and purpose). Since defendant's capitalization is $1,000, it does not pay off the loans it receives from the Fund itself. Rather, the loans are discharged using monies that would, in the absence of capital improvements, go to the state treasury in the form of a franchise fee. Thus, defendant is not only loaned state funds to conduct capital improvements, but the capital improvements are paid for with the state's money. See L.1983, ch. 1007, § 1 (state intends to accomplish objective of improving thoroughbred racing industry through capital fund "by dedicating a portion of the revenues derived from the conducting by [defendant] of high quality thoroughbred racing at such facilities to the financing of capital improvements at such facilities"). Based upon the foregoing factors and authorities, it appears probable that plaintiff will establish state action at trial.

"NYRA is not part of the government" needs to die a painful death here.

[dilanesp]

Which is about when it always opens.
Last few days of April, first few of May.

Great insight! :headbanger:

It says specifically that the 2020 scheduled opening isn't happening.

[JohnGalt1]

At least many of you can bet on your home tracks from home.

Here in Minnesota we can't bet Canterbury or Running Aces from home, but only at the tracks.

So unless they change the rules, Minnesota tracks probably won't open with empty stands.

Thanks to the managements at OP and GP my betting life has changed very little.

[dilanesp]

At least many of you can bet on your home tracks from home.

Here in Minnesota we can't bet Canterbury or Running Aces from home, but only at the tracks.

So unless they change the rules, Minnesota tracks probably won't open with empty stands.

Thanks to the managements at OP and GP my betting life has changed very little.

That's a pretty dumb rule.

[Appy]

With specific exceptions a majority of tracks run most of the time with very few fans in attendance. Nothing new about that. There's a reason we don't get many camera shots of the stands.
Toga, Kee, Del Mar, and OPX are the most notable exceptions that draw large crowds throughout their meet.
ADW/online wagering has changed racing and extended the longevity of it's lifetime. For me it makes playing the races possible when it would otherwise would not be.

[jahura2]

In contrast, Churchill has two things NYRA doesn't have. It is in a red state, where there has been less social distancing, and it is in a state that bends over backwards for its racing industry, unlike New York.

.

Wow I dont see how you figure Ky. is a RED state. We have a Democrat as Governor and save for a few short stints in my lifetime Ky. has been BLUE historically.
This particular governor is also relishing government intervention in the current scenario and has pounded social distancing (correctly) from the beginning and was one of the first to do so. So your statement on this is incorrect.
His current stance by no means indicates that Churchill or any other track in the state of Ky. will be operating anytime soon.

[dilanesp]

Wow I dont see how you figure Ky. is a RED state. We have a Democrat as Governor and save for a few short stints in my lifetime Ky. has been BLUE historically.
This particular governor is also relishing government intervention in the current scenario and has pounded social distancing (correctly) from the beginning and was one of the first to do so. So your statement on this is incorrect.
His current stance by no means indicates that Churchill or any other track in the state of Ky. will be operating anytime soon.

I agree about your governor, but you are still a red state (e.g., Mitch McConnell) and horse racing has a lot of power there

[Tom]

It says specifically that the 2020 scheduled opening isn't happening.

This is what you quoted from it.....

Quote:
it seems a foregone conclusion that the Elmont oval will open no sooner than May

[Tom]

That's a pretty dumb rule.

As are about 99% of ALL rules pertaining to off track betting - always has been. Always will be.

Game is run by greedy morons.

[dilanesp]

This is what you quoted from it.....

Yep. And since Opening Day was set for the third full week of April....

[castaway01]

As are about 99% of ALL rules pertaining to off track betting - always has been. Always will be.

Game is run by greedy morons.

That's for sure. Every time I want to complain about the restrictive rules in NJ, I see other posts and have to be glad we're allowed to wager at all!