Hidden Scroll

[cj]

Obviously a bit disappointing last year, but that was a very visually impressive comeback just now and fast on the clock too.

[Suff]

Didn't try either.

[classhandicapper]

I thought his race was fast and visually impressive, but I'm not convinced he's anything special yet.

His first race was on a very speed favoring sloppy surface. He was probably a "bet against" in the FOY off that race (I know I did).

His FOY was a legitimately very good race setting that blazing pace, putting away the chasers, and hanging around well, but I don't think it was a spectacular performance given the track was mildly kind to speed.

I'd be way more forgiving of his poor race in the Florida Derby (where he seemed to dislike being rated), but he followed it up with another poor race. So I'm less apt to give him a full pass for the Florida Derby. Rating or not, I think he probably just wasn't very good that day either.

Yesterday's race was in about as weak a field as you are ever going to see.

He's unquestionably a very fast horse, but I'm more apt to think he's still a question mark until he shows he can face a tougher trip on an honest track against quality horses and still run fast.

[Suff]

Hidden Scroll has had behavioral issues from what I understand. He was a gate scratch on Jan 17th - Extreme fractious in/at the gate.

Friday 28th , two days prior to this start, I caught him being schooled in the Paddock.



Paddock schooling @ 4, & having raced at GP 4 times --- matches up to the misbehave problem.


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2568031&postcount=214

[Suff]

fwiw, Noon Time Gem, ran 2nd, was claimed 35K by Sweezy.

[Spalding No!]

Hidden Scroll sold for over $500K at the Keeneland sales and apparently will be turned over to Brad Cox. Not sure what condition the horse is in, but there's certainly time to win an allowance by daylight and then the Pegasus Cup in track record time.

Juddmonte culled a few horses at the sale.

Not sure if Tacitus was one of them.

[the little guy]

Hidden Scroll sold for over $500K at the Keeneland sales and apparently will be turned over to Brad Cox. Not sure what condition the horse is in, but there's certainly time to win an allowance by daylight and then the Pegasus Cup in track record time.

Juddmonte culled a few horses at the sale.

Not sure if Tacitus was one of them.

I could be wrong, but I don't think we will see him for at least six months.

[Spalding No!]

I could be wrong, but I don't think we will see him for at least six months.
You're probably right. I should backtrack and say the Oaklawn Handicap in track record time.

At any rate, the last published workout was 6 weeks ago.

[classhandicapper]

I think my original comment in this thread was spot on. He’s a very fast horse without the quality to carry it against good horses when his reserves are challenged. The only adjustment I’d make is to say I now think his FOY was overrated by most people too, myself included.

Horses like him can put up big speed figures when they catch the right surface, pace, or field. They can fool speed handicappers for awhile, but they eventually get exposed, as he was.

If Cox turns this horse around like he did with Knicks Go (another very fast horse without the quality to carry it against good horses) I’m going to request the magic formula for myself.

[Someday Silent]

The poor critter just needs a lobotomy.... errr, to be gelded.

[GMB@BP]

Pretty big trainer upgrade today, probably wins by 10.

[Robert Fischer]

Hidden Scroll such a handsome horse! Professional effort today. Great to see him back in the winner's circle.

[dryrunguy]

And it wasn't like he had a good trip, either. He got shuffled back at least twice. He behaved perfectly and showed a new dimension.

[ubercapper]

Very reasonable people on PA. Not sure why the venal attitude on Twitter about the horse or Cox when it's fairly easy to see (IMO) they tried two turns and stakes early and that hurt then they appeared to lose confidence in him so tried turf.



Back to one turn and dirt and VOILA (regardless of the name of the person putting the tack on).

[GMB@BP]

Very reasonable people on PA. Not sure why the venal attitude on Twitter about the horse or Cox when it's fairly easy to see (IMO) they tried two turns and stakes early and that hurt then they appeared to lose confidence in him so tried turf.



Back to one turn and dirt and VOILA (regardless of the name of the person putting the tack on).

Horses just improve for Cox, its a given at this point, the reasons are kind of moot are they not, from a betting standpoint. He is the "next" Baffert or Pletcher in terms of sustained high level success.

[Tom]

:sleeping:

Allowance race.
Call me wen he beats something.

[classhandicapper]

To me, he's always looked like a very fast horse without much quality and with some mental issues on top of that. He needed the right track or the right field to carry his speed to a big final time number.

He caught the right field yesterday and maybe the off going helped also, but at least this time he relaxed better, finished really well, and had something left in reserve at the end. If it was anyone other than Cox, I'd probably take a stab against him next time. But unless he draws really tough and gets bet heavily I'm not as anxious to bet against him as I have been a few other times. The Cox "magic" probably has him going in the right direction now.

[cj]

To me, he's always looked like a very fast horse without much quality and with some mental issues on top of that. He needed the right track or the right field to carry his speed to a big final time number.

He caught the right field yesterday and maybe the off going helped also, but at least this time he relaxed better, finished really well, and had something left in reserve at the end. If it was anyone other than Cox, I'd probably take a stab against him next time. But unless he draws really tough and gets bet heavily I'm not as anxious to bet against him as I have been a few other times. The Cox "magic" probably has him going in the right direction now.

Was a pretty slow race IMO, I passed yesterday but I'd go against him in pretty much any big track stakes race. Maybe he'll show up in the Hot Springs on Rebel day, King Cotton comes up in only two week so probably a little quick there.

[classhandicapper]

Was a pretty slow race IMO, I passed yesterday but I'd go against him in pretty much any big track stakes race. Maybe he'll show up in the Hot Springs on Rebel day, King Cotton comes up in only two week so probably a little quick there.

I hate keying against certain trainers. Their horses will sometimes look overbet on figures etc.. but when you check their ROI you'll see that the extra money they take is justified. That's because their horses are more likely to run their "A" race and more significantly jump up to a new high than for other trainers. Cox is kind of in that category now.

I've been a bear on this horse from early on, but my gut is not going to allow me to key against him unless he's so obviously overbet even a passhandicapper has to let the moths out. ;)

[jay68802]

Really did not see many signs of "huge" improvement. Won a race where he was the logical favorite. Winning while not on the front was a improvement. A earlier Starter Allowance race for horses that had started for $10,000 was faster on the clock. I could see him improve slightly more at distances up to a mile. Maybe ungraded Stakes competition is where he lands next.

[GMB@BP]

What was more amazing than actually winning was how he did it, with trouble then from behind the pace.

This horse with adversity has not found ways to win, albeit in tough races.

[Spalding No!]

What was more amazing than actually winning was how he did it, with trouble then from behind the pace.

This horse with adversity has not found ways to win, albeit in tough races.
Agreed, he was actually pulling throughout the race after breaking awkwardly, but was obviously up on the heels of the horses in front of him. Don't think he was actually rating or relaxing so much as being under stout restraint.

Despite that and a 6-wide sweep to reach contention, the jock never cocked his whip and only urged him on a couple of times down the lane.

You're 10-length win prediction might have panned out with a clear trip.

[classhandicapper]

Agreed, he was actually pulling throughout the race after breaking awkwardly, but was obviously up on the heels of the horses in front of him. Don't think he was actually rating or relaxing so much as being under stout restraint.




That's the way I saw it, but he wasn't rank or flailing away like a lunatic either. It wasn't a strong field and the race wasn't very fast, but he looked like a different horse.

[Tee]

Entered 12/18/21 at Turfway Park going 6 1/2 furlongs

Race #7, post position 3.