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JustRalph
10-19-2004, 01:39 AM
Interesting Article on an official response from the Catholic Church

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32830

Kerry said to be excommunicated

Los Angeles, Oct. 18 (CWNews.com) - A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.

The consultant made his statement in a highly unusual letter to Marc Balestrieri, a Los Angeles canon lawyer who formally sued John Kerry in ecclesiastical court for heresy.

Balestrieri, who launched his case earlier this year by filing a heresy complaint in Kerry's home archdiocese of Boston, told EWTN's "World Over" program on Friday that he had received an unusual, indirect communication from the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding the pro-abortion stance.

That communication provides a basis, he said, to declare that any Catholic politician who says he is "personally opposed to abortion, but supports a woman's right to choose," incurs automatic excommunication. It also provided a basis for Balestrieri to broaden his canonical actions and file additional complaints against four more pro-abortion Catholic politicians: Democrat Senators Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts and Tom Harkin of Iowa; Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine; and former New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat.

The current action could be significant as it could undercut the entire debate over denying Communion to pro-abortion politicians. An excommunicated Catholic may not receive any of the sacraments of the Church, including the Eucharist, marriage, and even Christian burial. The type of excommunication outlined in the new information is called latae sententiae, which means that it occurs automatically and does not require a formal pronouncement by any Church official.

Balestrieri said he went to Rome in late August to discuss his canonical case with experts, including an official of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Less than 10 days later, he received a letter from Father Basil Cole, a Dominican theologian and consultant to the congregation based in Washington, DC, who said he had been "delegated" by Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation, to give an unofficial response to the question that Balestrieri had submitted.

"I went to Rome in person to submit two critical questions to the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith," said Balestrieri. "The first: Whether or not the Church's teaching condemning any direct abortion is a dogma of Divine and Catholic Faith, and if the denial and doubt of the same constitutes heresy. The second: Whether or not a denial of the Church's teaching condemning every right to abortion also constitutes heresy. Father Cole, an expert theologian who studied the matter carefully, responded in the affirmative on both counts."

Father Cole wrote, "If a Catholic publicly and obstinately supports the civil right to abortion, knowing that the Church teaches officially against that legislation, he or she commits that heresy envisioned by Can. 751 of the Code [of Canon Law]. Provided that the presumptions of knowledge of the law and penalty and imputability are not rebutted in the external forum, one is automatically excommunicated ...."

Balestrieri said the response was unusual in several respects: that a response was provided to a layman at the request of the undersecretary in only 11 days, that the response was in writing, decisively clarifying the matter, and that it was in far greater detail than a typical official reply. "Normally, only a bishop may request such clarification of doctrine from the CDF, such responses usually take a much longer time to be received, and they are rarely made public," he said.

He also said that the original canonical complaint of heresy against Kerry had received so much response from the public that the tribunal of the Archdiocese of Boston has been deluged with thousands of letters from ordinary Catholics who wish to add their names to the complaint. The head of the archdiocesan tribunal reportedly told him that the case had not been rejected and was "now in the hands of the archbishop," that is, Archbishop Sean O'Malley of Boston.

Balestrieri, a self-identified political independent, says that his actions come as a defender of the faith and Holy Eucharist from sacrilege and scandal, not as one focused on an electoral outcome. "Our victory can come as early as today: It would be for Sen. Kerry, who publicly calls himself a Catholic and yet in violation of Canon Law continues to receive Holy Communion, to repent of his grave sin and publicly recant his abortion advocacy."

The complete text of Father Cole's response as well as other details of the pending cases are available on the DeFide.com web site.

Equineer
10-19-2004, 02:09 AM
A consultant to the Vatican...C'mon JR, this is heresy... the Pope is infallible. :)

ljb
10-19-2004, 09:40 AM
This type of action stimulates the thought of eliminating tax exempt status for churches. Perhaps they should be listed as 527 groups or something in that line.
Now I don't know if I should tithe the church or just eliminate the middle man and give the money directly to the RNC?

PaceAdvantage
10-19-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Equineer
C'mon JR, this is heresy... the Pope is infallible. :)

That's one way to spin it. Who's next?

boxcar
10-19-2004, 12:45 PM
At the very best Kerry is but a nominal Catholic. Don't forget: By his own admission he basically confessed that he's a politician who just happens to be a Catholic -- which means that his religious faith means nothing in his public life (and probably in his private one either).

Soo...he gets booted out of the church. So what? He'll find a way to wear that as a badge of honor, and then go join some black church so he can rub elbows with the Jessse Jackasses and the Al-Not-So-Sharptons of the world.

Boxcar

Dave Schwartz
10-19-2004, 12:47 PM
LJB,

>>>This type of action stimulates the thought of eliminating tax exempt status for churches. Perhaps they should be listed as 527 groups or something in that line.
Now I don't know if I should tithe the church or just eliminate the middle man and give the money directly to the RNC?<<<


Yes, heaven forbid that a church should be able to take a moral stand on anything. What are they thinking here?

And there you have it folks. The "new America" take on the constitution... Freedom from religion.


Dave Schwartz

Secretariat
10-19-2004, 01:07 PM
JR, Why do you keep posting CWNews? They are like the Globe or National Inquirier. Get real. At least watch Jerry Springer or something.

sq764
10-19-2004, 01:16 PM
http://www.excommunication.net/

better?

chickenhead
10-19-2004, 01:22 PM
I'm curious whether the Church automatically excommunicates all who support the Death Penalty as well......or gay marriage.....

I support the right of the Church to take this sort of action, I would just hope that they apply these standards across the entirety of their teachings....but as someone who grew up in the Catholic Church, I am well aware that consistency is not their strong point....

Secretariat
10-19-2004, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by sq764
http://www.excommunication.net/

better?

Please post news. This is the Saint Stanislaus Committee formed in 1989 who are an ad hoc political group. This isn't the Catholic church and JFK has not been excommunicated. Pick up the Globe SQ. It's more accurate.

ljb
10-19-2004, 01:35 PM
From Dave Schwarz
Yes, heaven forbid that a church should be able to take a moral stand on anything. What are they thinking here?

I have no problem with the church taking a moral stand on anything. I do have a problem with the church using it's influence to sway our elections. Seperation of church and state.
If you feel differently fine. Keep in mind the true evangelists also want to ban alcohol and gambling. Much like the NRA fears any laws dealing with firearms, I fear any laws creeping towards theocracy.
Think about what you may be giving up by following the disguised directions of the christian coalition.

ljb
10-19-2004, 01:37 PM
From Chickenhead
I'm curious whether the Church automatically excommunicates all who support the Death Penalty as well......or gay marriage.....

Yes and what about birth control???

RXB
10-19-2004, 02:13 PM
I think that getting kicked out (or, better yet, kicking yourself out) of any religion is one of the best things that could happen to a person.

Equineer
10-19-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
That's one way to spin it. Who's next? JR's article began, "A consultant to the Vatican has said..."

The Vatican has no need for a consultant on ecclesiastical matters. When the stated source for JR's article was a consultant, good Catholics immediately recognized that the article must be the clever work of the Devil. Anyone who read beyond the first sentence should go to confession.

I seldom curse, but in this case my admonition to JR is, "Go multiply your issue!" :D

JustRalph
10-19-2004, 04:01 PM
Toss a little religion around and you get some serious responses. Interesting theories in this issue. The Catholic Church is now saying that there was "no official response" to this guy anyway. Either way.........it is an interesting issue all things considered.

LJB wants to revoke the Tax exempt status of churches. I have been for that for years. I guess we should start with that Church here in Columbus Ohio, you know, the one that Kerry spent this last Sunday preaching to.

ljb
10-19-2004, 04:08 PM
From Jr
LJB wants to revoke the Tax exempt status of churches. I have been for that for years. I guess we should start with that Church here in Columbus Ohio, you know, the one that Kerry spent this last Sunday preaching to.


Ok Ralph,
Then let's get into the Pat Robertson gang and Jerry Falwell and Tammy Faye Baker oops she may be out.

Secretariat
10-19-2004, 05:53 PM
I'm totally in favor of ALL churches losing their tax status. I would think Repubs would be for that as a stimulus to the economy.

Most churches that engage in political processes should be losing that exemption anyway, dem or repub.

JustRalph
10-19-2004, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by ljb
Ok Ralph,
Then let's get into the Pat Robertson gang and Jerry Falwell and Tammy Faye Baker oops she may be out.

No problem......... I think they are rip off artists...........Falwell is a flake.........

Secretariat
10-19-2004, 09:51 PM
JR,

You may be interested in what the Vatican actually said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405749.htm

JustRalph
10-19-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Secretariat
JR,

You may be interested in what the Vatican actually said.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405749.htm

yeah, I saw it. Mentioned it in earlier post.

Tom
10-19-2004, 11:12 PM
Kerry is not a Catholic. He is no Amercian. His place in Hell is certain. He is a war criminal. The Church is right to lick him out. And this will definately affect the election. The lib spin on this thread is truly enlightening into the lack of character they have.
I love to watch them dance.