We are now reliant on the French for Flu Vaccine! [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

sq764

10-17-2004, 10:08 PM

I guess 48 million doses that they were counting on not coming through might cause some scrambling...

"This year, there were two -- until Oct. 5, when one of them, Chiron Corp., announced that it would not be able to deliver 48 million doses bound for the U.S. market. The British government's drug-regulatory agency had impounded all doses made at Chiron's plant in Liverpool, England, because of bacterial contamination of some lots. "

IRISHLADSTABLE

10-17-2004, 10:13 PM

The last time I got a flu shot it worked I got the Flu

Jimmy

Tom

10-17-2004, 10:15 PM

Kerry made sure that was no shortage of botox!
I just though his head was getting bigger!

Equineer

10-17-2004, 10:18 PM

For convenience, here is a link to the beginning of the same story:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38776-2004Oct16.html

This is old news in Europe because Chiron's plant is in the U.K.

Cynical pundits have already asked if this finally explains how our Washington politicians intend to fix Social Security. :eek:

Thankfully, just like 1776, it's France to the rescue again. :)

sq764

10-17-2004, 10:28 PM

I agree with Tom, I'd rather die

JustRalph

10-17-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by IRISHLADSTABLE
The last time I got a flu shot it worked I got the Flu

Jimmy

If you are interested........do a Google search on the "Fallacy of Vaccinations" and do some reading. I got my cat vaccinated a couple months of go and it killed him. Try looking into some of the side effects of vaccinations and the death rates involved and you may never take another shot. I know I won't...........

boxcar

10-17-2004, 10:46 PM

JR, your right on the mark! The Drug Companies and Western Medicine, generally, have done a great job of brainwashing the masses to believe there are drugs (read: harmful chemicals) to cure or prevent just about anything. My mind is boggled by all the drug commercials on the tube these days.

Boxcar

Secretariat

10-17-2004, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by boxcar
JR, your right on the mark! The Drug Companies and Western Medicine, generally, have done a great job of brainwashing the masses to believe there are drugs (read: harmful chemicals) to cure or prevent just about anything. My mind is boggled by all the drug commercials on the tube these days.

Boxcar

Absolutely Boxcar....wouldn't it be nice if those drug companies would save the money from those commericals and pass those savings onto the consumer....bravo

boxcar

10-17-2004, 11:09 PM

Secretariat wrote:

Absolutely Boxcar....wouldn't it be nice if those drug companies would save the money from those commericals and pass those savings onto the consumer....bravo

What would even be nicer is if more people would do their own research into the horrible side effects of very many of these drugs and look into alternative remedies for what ails them. There's nothing like an educated consumer...even in the healtcare field.

Boxcar

ponyplayer

10-18-2004, 12:20 AM

How many of you guys are old enough to remember the "Swine Flu" panic. Remember a bunch of people got sick from taking those flu shots....

I have never taken a flu shot...I have not yet been convinced that it is something that I MUST have...

ljb

10-18-2004, 08:04 PM

from Just Ralph,
If you are interested........do a Google search on the "Fallacy of Vaccinations" and do some reading. I got my cat vaccinated a couple months of go and it killed him. Try looking into some of the side effects of vaccinations and the death rates involved and you may never take another shot. I know I won't...........

Well I guess you are happy Cheney didn't get his way then.
MR. RUSSERT: One of your many tasks in the administration, the point person on bioterrorism; you’ve been spending some time at the Center for Disease Control. Do you believe that all Americans should eventually be vaccinated against smallpox?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: We’re in the middle of improving our capability to do that. A year ago, we had enough vaccine for maybe 15 million people. We’re now well on the way to producing enough vaccine for 350 million people. There is serious consideration now being given to what kind of vaccination program we want. You go to first responders, people who have to deal with this when it first arises. Do you do a broader group than that? Do you do it on a voluntary basis for anybody who would like to have it? These are issues under active discussion, deliberation. Tommy Thompson over at HHS has been actively involved in it as well, too. It’s not a zero sum kind of proposition; that is, it’s not a cost-free operation. There are side effects and consequences for most vaccines. And you have to weigh those against the benefits that would be derived by protecting the population.

MR. RUSSERT: If you vaccinated 300 million Americans, a thousand would die from side effects.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: I don’t remember the exact numbers, but clearly there would be some people who would be harmed as a result of the vaccination.

MR. RUSSERT: But the risk may be such we may come to that.

VICE PRES. CHENEY: That’s entirely possible.

DJofSD

10-18-2004, 08:35 PM

Here's a test for all you folks: what is it in a vaccine that actively fights you catching the disease?

DJofSD

P.S. This is a trick question.

Steve 'StatMan'

10-18-2004, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by DJofSD
Here's a test for all you folks: what is it in a vaccine that actively fights you catching the disease?

DJofSD

P.S. This is a trick question.

Weakend and/or dead Flu Virus. They have to pick out the strains expected to hit, and keep up with new ones. A new Flu or unexpectedly strong flu hits that wasn't in the vaccine, and you're not going to have built up the immunity needed for it.;)

JustRalph

10-18-2004, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
Weakend and/or dead Flu Virus. They have to pick out the strains expected to hit, and keep up with new ones. A new Flu or unexpectedly strong flu hits that wasn't in the vaccine, and you're not going to have built up the immunity needed for it.;)

It's like wheel of fortune...........you never know if it is going to work. I can't believe people are clamoring for it so much.........

Tom

10-18-2004, 10:04 PM

I have had flu shots for the last four years and have not gotten the flu. Before that, I cannot remember a year I didn't get it.

John

10-18-2004, 10:17 PM

STEVE,

Can you explain so I can understand it.

Thanks

Steve 'StatMan'

10-18-2004, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by John
STEVE,

Can you explain so I can understand it.

Thanks

I'd better first say that I'm not a doctor, nor a vaccine maker. Hopefully I passed DJofSD's test, but I'm pretty confident.

The vaccines put a weak version of the germs/disease into a persons body. Healthy people's bodies overcome colds and disease by making anti-bodies in the white blood cells, and these antibodies stay in our bodies for quite a while.

Think of the vaccine as giving your body a practice fight against an easy but similar opponent, so that it should win the bigger fight if it happens.

That's why it's unusual to get sick twice, seperately, from the same cold, during the same cold season, since once your body knows how to beat it, it can stop it again. But since our familes, co-workers and strangers may not have those antibodies built up in their bodies yet, they can catch a cold from us, and they can give us ones we haven't had yet.

This is also why healthy but potentially physically weaker people like the elderly and childern may benefit from a vaccine. But since the vaccines actually give people a mild version of the cold/sickness, weakend people are at risk to get too sick just from what's in the vaccine.

The vaccines actuallly make people a little sick, so they can keep from getting seriously sick by getting the germs the normal way.

DJofSD

10-18-2004, 11:03 PM

Steve - you passed.

So, we take a vaccine to stimulate the body's natural immunity systems. A practice run as Steve said.

Now, knowing what happens, are you really surprised that sometimes there are symptoms of the flu? You shouldn't be.

Is it unfortunate that no matter how pure the strain and how careful the manufactor is to keep it uncontaminated, there are still people that have severe reactions, catch the d*mn bug instead of becoming innoculated and others die? Please don't be so naive.

There's very few absolutes and the only medical absolute is we die. It would be great if life was risk free - it ain't.

Sorry if this comes across as a lecture.

DJofSD

schweitz

10-18-2004, 11:23 PM

In today's paper:
Every flu shot that goes into an American arm this season will come from the French company's plant (Aventis Pasteur) in Swiftwater, PA.--------This would be an example of insourcing jobs. :)

osophy_junkie

10-19-2004, 12:54 AM

Wouldn't the more people getting the flu vaccine, also increase the chances of the virus mutating? As the virus mutates, our existing anti bodies won't be able to fight the new strain hence needing another flu vaccine. For ever going on until the virus mutates into something not easily curable.

Ed

John

10-19-2004, 09:52 AM

I like Tom have taken the shot for the last three years and have only had mild cases of the flu.

I read yesterday that you should wash your hands frequently to help avoid the flu. the germ is contacted when your fingers touch your eyes or noise. [ unless someone coughs in your face.] Also read you should drink plenty of water during the flu season and cut down on alcohol.

Anybody got any home remedies.....I'll start.

If you are in a public place and use the rest room use paper towel to open inside door handle.

JOHN

CryingForTheHorses

10-19-2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by JustRalph
If you are interested........do a Google search on the "Fallacy of Vaccinations" and do some reading. I got my cat vaccinated a couple months of go and it killed him. Try looking into some of the side effects of vaccinations and the death rates involved and you may never take another shot. I know I won't...........

I cant beleive how easy the USA people are brainwashed,Growing up in Canada, working and playing in sub-o temps, I never got a flu shot, As a matter of fact, I had never heard of it till I came to florida, If it is anything like when you give a horse a shot, Id rather fight the cold.My wife and I laughed the other day at ALL the people (300) waiting and fighting for their place in line..25 bucks a shot..What a farce, Guess the drug companies will make lots of money

Secretariat

10-19-2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I cant beleive how easy the USA people are brainwashed,Growing up in Canada, working and playing in sub-o temps, I never got a flu shot, As a matter of fact, I had never heard of it till I came to florida, If it is anything like when you give a horse a shot, Id rather fight the cold.My wife and I laughed the other day at ALL the people (300) waiting and fighting for their place in line..25 bucks a shot..What a farce, Guess the drug companies will make lots of money

And a French one to boot. I would love to see Tom standing in line to get a Flu Shot provided by a French company.

Secretariat

10-19-2004, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by schweitz
In today's paper:
Every flu shot that goes into an American arm this season will come from the French company's plant (Aventis Pasteur) in Swiftwater, PA.--------This would be an example of insourcing jobs. :)

Is this the new Bush economic plan? Hire French companies to come to America?

DJofSD

10-19-2004, 06:39 PM

Is this the new Bush economic plan? Hire French companies to come to America?

Just like BMW in South Carolina and Honda in TN.

DJofSD

schweitz

10-19-2004, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Secretariat
Is this the new Bush economic plan? Hire French companies to come to America?

Not sure what you are after here---kind of a strange way to phrase it----Bush doesn't hire companies. Don't know but I imagine this company has been in the US longer than four years, but either way I'm all for foreign companies employing US workers---if you are not you don't have to work for one.

Tom

10-19-2004, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I cant beleive how easy the USA people are brainwashed,Growing up in Canada, working and playing in sub-o temps, I never got a flu shot, As a matter of fact, I had never heard of it till I came to florida, If it is anything like when you give a horse a shot, Id rather fight the cold.My wife and I laughed the other day at ALL the people (300) waiting and fighting for their place in line..25 bucks a shot..What a farce, Guess the drug companies will make lots of money

Could it be that is just to damn cold in Canada for the flu virus to live?:D

Equineer

10-25-2004, 02:40 PM

Washington is abuzz with rumors that a Chiron coverup bombshell will be exploded by a leading syndicated columnist with multiple sources that confirm intelligence agencies believe the flu vaccine failure may have been caused by terrorists.

The loss of all 48-million vaccines produced by Chiron easily ranks as the largest pharmaceutical failure in history. This alone sparked demands for a thorough investigation to determine how 100% of the vaccines became contaminated.

If the terrorist story is confirmed, sources say it has been suppressed since initial intelligence concerns were raised. In terms of terror impact, it has been noted that the shortfall of 48-million vaccines will cause many more deaths than the 9/11 attack on America.

Much of the buzz concerns timing... will the columnist scoop formal investigations that have been launched... and how might coverup allegations impact voters during the final days before the election... and what if the election is influenced but the story cannot be absolutely confirmed months later by formal investigations?SAN FRANCISCO(AP 10/14/04) -- A federal grand jury is investigating Chiron Corp.'s failure to supply the nation with half the needed flu vaccine this year, the company said Tuesday in a regulatory filing.

The Emeryville-based company said it received a subpoena from the U.S. Attorney in New York, the same office that recently prosecuted Martha Stewart and former star investment banker Frank Quattrone in unrelated financial scandals.

The subpoena demanded documents and other information related to British regulators prohibiting Chiron from shipping about 48 million Fluvirin vaccine shots from its Liverpool plant because of contamination concerns, the company said in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing. Officials with Chiron and the U.S. Attorney's office declined comment.

PaceAdvantage

10-26-2004, 11:13 PM

Actually, the real question is, why are counting on the French to provide our Flu shot, when there are many American companies more than capable?

Maybe this is why?

The major pharmaceutical companies in the US provided almost 90% of the nations flu vaccine at one time. They did this despite a very low profit margin for the product. Basically, they were doing us a favor.

In the late 80's a man from North Carolina who had received the vaccine got the flu. The strain he caught was one of the strains in that years vaccine made by a US company. What did he do? He sued and he won. He was awarded almost $5 million! After that case was appealed and lost, most US pharmaceutical companies stopped making the vaccine. The liability out weighed the profit
margin. Since UK and Canadian laws prohibit such frivolous law suits UK and Canadian companies began selling the vaccine in the US.

By the way...the lawyer that represented the man in the flu shot law suit was a young ambulance chaser by the name of John Edwards.

betchatoo

10-26-2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Actually, the real question is, why are counting on the French to provide our Flu shot, when there are many American companies more than capable?

Maybe this is why?

Another Urban Legend perpetuated by someone who didn't bother to check the facts
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_flu_shots.htm

To quote a famous show and a famous poster
"The truth is out there"

PaceAdvantage

10-27-2004, 12:59 AM

How does what you posted refute the e-mail?

As yet, I haven't been able to determine whether Democratic presidential candidate (and former trial lawyer) John Edwards ever filed a liability lawsuit against a flu vaccine manufacturer, but it's a moot point because no knowledgeable sources attribute the current U.S. vaccine shortage to "frivolous litigation."

This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that it ISN'T TRUE, now is it?

How about this:

And while it's true that there used to be more U.S.-based pharmaceutical companies making influenza vaccines, it's not true that the ones who stopped did so because they feared litigation. The fact of the matter is that compared to producing drugs or other kinds of vaccine, making flu vaccine is an exceedingly high-risk, low-profit, labor-intensive enterprise. Pharmaceutical companies dumped the product because, in the words of a recent Washington Post article, it "has simply become too much trouble."

Hmmmm...this paragraph sounds quite similar to the supposed bogus email I posted to start this thread!!! The drug companies stopped making flu-vaccines because it is low profit, HIGH RISK (why is it high risk....LITIGATION?), low profit!

Too much trouble? Why. Could it be the fear of litigation?

I don't really see where your link disproves this post, but maybe it's just me.

Equineer

10-27-2004, 12:22 PM

PA,

You posted email was word-for-word the same as the mass e-mailed flier identified as an email hoax by About.Com. Did you even check from, to, and other properties before believing it?

Link: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_flu_shots.htmText from the hoax email (matches yours):

The major pharmaceutical companies in the US provided almost 90% of the nations flu vaccine at one time. They did this despite a very low profit margin for the product. Basically, they were doing us a favor.

In the late 80's a man from North Carolina who had received the vaccine got the flu. The strain he caught was one of the strains in that years vaccine made by a US company. What did he do? He sued and he won. He was awarded almost $5 million! After that case was appealed and lost, most US pharmaceutical companies stopped making the vaccine. The liability out weighed the profit margin. Since UK and Canadian laws prohibit such frivolous law suits UK and Canadian companies began selling the vaccine in the US.

By the way...the lawyer that represented the man in the flu shot law suit was a young ambulance chaser by the name of John Edwards.And About.Com further pointed out that "the enactment of the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the late 1980s significantly reduced the industry's burden by providing an alternative to litigation. Congress passed a bill earlier this year adding influenza vaccine to that program, though President Bush has yet to sign it into law."