SARTIN METHODOLOGY - Pros and Cons

[First_Place]

Any arguments in favor of learning the Methodology? Any against it?

Any thoughts?

FP

[DJofSD]

It's one approach to learning pace handicapping.

The big problem is there's no viable organization to get plugged into. For myself, the greatest benefit was the seminars and workshops. If you can get hooked up with some others in your area, that'll help. But don't think that reading Modern Pace Handicapping is going to teach you what's called the Sartin Methodology.

There is a group on Yahoo called Sartin Alums but to my surprise I find my bookmark to it has gone missing. D*mn.

IMO, this is what Doc tried to teach: (1) pattern recognition, (2) thinking outside the box, (3) learn about yourself when it comes to handicapping and betting.

The pattern recognition piece can be as easy has keeping a Brohamer model. You can go from there.

One thing that Doc would often rail against is trying to take different handicapping ideas not taught in the methodology and to layer his approach and tools on top of them. It doesn't work.

I believe the greatest thing Doc had to offer was "that psychology crap." I don't know how that will ever be duplicated.

DJofSD

[JimG]

If your interested in the Sartin methodolgy as it stands today, I recommend the following board hosted by our very own Binder.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VDCMessengerService/?yguid=81506536


Jim

[Binder]

I have started a Sartin Methodology
theme group on Yahoo Sports named V/DC messenger

We are a small but strong based group
As of today we have 114 members
What we are trying to do is continue Docs work. Its true we have so strong leader like Doc. But as a group working together
We are moving ahead.
Mostly that means just following Doc's directions and learning to believe in ourselves. We share Email messages or post on the group home page. From The Emails I get I know those messages have really helped me and some members stay focused. I have improved my wagering since starting V/DC messenger
By discussing race cards and the Sartin advanced programs
Pl4, Synthesis and the Validator series. and looking at example races posted in our files section It has jump-started my confidence in the Methodology Recently we have been able to provide our newer members
Some Pdf's of Doc BI mouthly Journal The Follow Up. So I have been reading all "that psychology crap" once again
I really enjoy working with our new members who are just
starting out

I have been very lucky to have some real helpful members
post regularly. I learn more and more everyday
Our group slogan is Friends helping Friends WIN
Its a real nice way to learn and meet and hang out with some real sharp Sartin clients
This is a link to V/DC Messenger
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VDCMessengerService/join

Good Skill
Binder

[Tom]

The benifits I saw from being a Sartinista were:

1. Structured approach
2. Focus on few factors
3. Emphasis on record keeping (wagering, models, profiles)
4. Exposure to some very helpful people - Dick Schmidt, Tom Brohamer, Micheal Pizzola, Tom Ainsle, Mark Cramer.

[sq764]

I agree, the best benefit (for me) has been limiting factors.. It's pretty cut and dry.. You don't get lost in layoffs, trainers, angles, biases, etc..

[Tom]

A guy at HTR a while ago used only the last line-lived and died by it. Did his research on last out and that was that. Now, not only was he a pretty decent player, look at all the money he saved printing out PPs!:)

[Binder]

Hi Tom


[OUOTE]The benifits I saw from being a Sartinista were:

1. Structured approach
2. Focus on few factors
3. Emphasis on record keeping (wagering, models, profiles)
4. Exposure to some very helpful people - Dick Schmidt, Tom Brohamer, Micheal Pizzola, Tom Ainsle, Mark Cramer.[QUOTE]

I guess 1 2 and 4 always will apply
But really there was very little record keeping needed with the Validator series of programs
Doc asked us to use a simple form called the Wager Decision Form
It is a simple list of 20 races
each race has 4 boxes all you need to do is write down what the winner paid into which Rank or V/DC tier box you readouts placed him. There was also a sub box were you enter the balance #of the winner and then to the right you enter which two tiers that you bet.
Doc told use that doing this and keeping records of the Early late
gragh were all the records we need
He also asked us to keep track of the Early/ Late graph by distance
and to add what the winner paid

every once in awhile somebody would ask a question in the Follow Up like "is it OK to use a 5.5 furlong pace line in a 7.0 furlong race?". He would reply, Check YOUR records !
I came in late so I never knew what I was suppose to keep track of ?

In Follow Up # 82 Doc suggested His Ideal Spreasheet
These were his suggestions to use
Date- Dist - Surf - Sex - E/L - PLS - SLS - Tot R -BL/BL- VDC- ML-
Final Odds - Bet Y/N - Results

PLS = Primary Line Score

SLS = Supplemental Line Score

Tot R = Total Energy

BlBL = Bottom Line Betting line

V/Dc = Velocity/Deceleration

Bet Y/N = The two horse you bet to win

thanks
Binder

[so.cal.fan]

Good luck to you and your group, Binder!
Sounds like you are not only having fun, but may have a grand chance to make some money as well!:)

[Binder]

Hi So Cal fan

The group V/DC Messenger is not supported by the Sartins or Pirco
or O Henry House Its a non commercial site

I have improved my wagering because of the extra focus that
leading the group has forced me to do. plus since I am the moderator I must read every post on V/DC
I make no money from the group

But if meeting new friends and getting a nice thank you from a new member when I help them out is worth anything, Then I am getting rich

Bind

[so.cal.fan]

I realized you were not a commercial site, Binder.
That's why I admire you and your group even more.
You are trying to improve your game.
Again, the very best of luck to all of you.
I would like to see you people come up with some new inovative handicapping ideas!
You can't succeed if you don't try!

[First_Place]

DJofSD wrote:

"It's one approach to learning pace handicapping."

Outside of Doc's Methodology, who else (besides Michael Pizzolla, Tom Brohamer and Dick Schmidt/Tom Hambleton, all former Sartin students) offers a pace handicapping method, if any?

FP

[shanta]

Originally posted by First_Place
DJofSD wrote:

"It's one approach to learning pace handicapping."

Outside of Doc's Methodology, who else (besides Michael Pizzolla, Tom Brohamer and Dick Schmidt/Tom Hambleton, all former Sartin students) offers a pace handicapping method, if any?

FP

Cary Fotias, Bob Purdy, Ruben Boxer, Ken Massa, Dave Schwartz and CJ Milkowski all come to mind regarding your question.

Richie

[DJofSD]

Wow! A much longer list than I would have been able to give.

DJofSD

[LARRY GEORGE]

LETS NOT FORGET JIM "THE HAT" BRADSHAW OF TULSA OKLA. ALONG TIME DISCIPLE OF THE SARTIN METHOD

[Dave Schwartz]

I think that you will find most of the others (myself included) trace our "pace roots" to Doc as well.


Dave Schwartz

[First_Place]

That has been my observation, Dave.

FP