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sq764
10-08-2004, 09:48 PM
Wow, when the issue of malpractice reform came up, Kerry looked like a confused old man..

Bush nailed his ass to the wall on this one..

Kerry's starting to 'scowl'...

Tom
10-08-2004, 09:52 PM
Kerry is going to need health care a the end of this beat down. His arse has severe bites!:D

sq764
10-08-2004, 10:13 PM
Kerry sure loves to throw out names doesn't he?

chickenhead
10-08-2004, 10:28 PM
Note to George: Slavery was actually legal under the Constitution. That is why the Supreme Court voted the way they did......not the other way around.

sq764
10-08-2004, 10:32 PM
Did Kerry say ONE new thought the entire debate??

Holy shit, they could have just edited him from the 1st debate and placed him in this one.. (well, remove the composure and sanity)

Rico8812
10-08-2004, 10:42 PM
at least he doesn't sound like a babbling moron. Its truely scary that gwb is running this country.

sq764
10-08-2004, 10:44 PM
um, you must have been in the bathroom during Kerry's attempt to answer the draft lie..

Tom
10-08-2004, 10:44 PM
If you like babbling morons, keep reading...we have several libs who fill that bill nicely.:D

Buckeye
10-08-2004, 10:58 PM
T.K.O. for the President, superior footwork, hand speed, and arguments. HUGE turnaround in Bush's performance.

Tom
10-08-2004, 11:20 PM
Before the debate, Presidnet Bush greets John Kerry.

Tom
10-08-2004, 11:22 PM
After the debate, President Bush sticks a fork in him...yup! He's done!

Suff
10-08-2004, 11:40 PM
what Koolaid You guys drinking...

Insta Polls.

From quickpolls.

222,450 Votes

Kerry 68%%
Bush 30 %

From Fox News... 65, 529 votes


Kerry 45,634 70%
Bush 19,553 30%


From CNN

170,421 Votes

John Kerry 138,377 70%
George Bush 26,069 17%

_--------------------

"I would only appoint Justices who oppose Slavery?? Did I hear him right? Thats a classic. They'll be replaying that for years.

Then he Called Kerry by the wrong name. I was laughing.

Bubbles
10-08-2004, 11:43 PM
From the debate...

"President Bush is the only president that has issued a tax cut during war. The others didn't cause they know how to lead.30 minutes later, "Senator kerry, look inot the camera and say you will not raise taxes." "If I am elected president I WILL give you a tax cut."

Ooooooook...I see what he's trying to do here...NOT.

JustRalph
10-08-2004, 11:44 PM
Suff

The word is out on the flash polls. The Dems have stuffed the boxes........it has come out in a couple different places........I posted a thread that showed how the dems were sending emails prior to the last debate, raving about how well Edwards did...the local news here in Columbus Outed them on it....the polls are full of it..........we know it.

sq764
10-08-2004, 11:45 PM
Suff:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Vote2004/second_debate_poll_041008.html

And this should only get better for Bush after he was very strong tonight..

I was very thrilled at how the debate went tonight.. Night and Day from the 1st one..

sq764
10-08-2004, 11:48 PM
Wow, this is interesting:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/electoral.map/index.html

And this was supposedly after Kerry smoked him in debate 1 :-)

Tom
10-08-2004, 11:49 PM
I don't need a damn poll to tell what I think.
And based on the 2000 election, half the people in this country are idiots to begin with.
Never heard a republican complian that he couldn' t figure out a paper ballot.

Lefty
10-08-2004, 11:51 PM
Rico, i'm reading only an opinion from you without any reasoning whatsover.
"is this the end of Rico?"

sq764
10-08-2004, 11:52 PM
What's funny is the posting of these instapolls showing Kerry at 70%, but almost every single person they have interviewed as undecided voters, were with Bush..

I will give you this Suff, if you could vote in the election as much as many times as you wanted, Kerry would win in a landslide.. With only one vote per piece, looks like you're out of luck.

Suff
10-08-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by sq764
Suff:
Bush after he was very strong tonight..

I was very thrilled at how the debate went tonight.. Night and Day from the 1st one..

I just showed you three polls with close to a 1/2 Million Voters. All 3 say Bush got his clock cleaned again. Your starting to remind me of Bush. Despite evidence to the contrary...You insist he was strong? OK.

Do you read the articles you post?

3rd Paragraph


Boosted by his performance in the Miami, Florida, debate and new questions about Bush's rationale for invading Iraq, however, Kerry looks as if he is threatening the president's lead in New Hampshire, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, Colorado and Iowa, which hold a total of 82 electoral votes. If Kerry picks up Ohio and Florida, he would lead Bush in the Electoral College, 285 to 253.

New polls suggest Kerry has also opened up solid leads in two Democratic-leaning states where Bush had been threatening the senator's edge: Pennsylvania and New Jersey

Wow?

Lefty
10-09-2004, 12:02 AM
Kerry has never put his vote where his mouth is. There's good reason he doesn't like to be called a liberal or want to talk about his voting record. Line of the night: You can run but you can't hide"
Prediction: This week Bush gets a big boost in the polls.

Suff
10-09-2004, 12:06 AM
You got Fox News on? Carl Cameron just announced that Fox's own group of controlled Debate watchers, gave kerry a 5% Margin of Victory in tonights Debate.

Everybody box stuffs and everybody see's it thier own way. But the Numbers are nowwhere near the Hyperbole that I've been reading on the board all Night.

And how many threads do we need to discuss the debate? One for every question? Its mainly a Horse Board and when the 5 most recent threads are all politics and all on the same subject (re:the debate) Its like clutter.

Steve 'StatMan'
10-09-2004, 12:08 AM
Some of those online polls are pretty suspicious. I checked out CNN on Tuesday night and the VP debate, and it had a huge edge towards Edwards, like 60+% to 12%. I then started making votes every few seconds, sometimes for Cheney, sometimes for a Tie. It never said I already voted, and the number of total votes kept continuously updated with every vote submission, a few for each of the candidates, and 1 maybe 2 each time I hit 'tie'. It's not like anyone has to log in under an I.D. to vote in one of those polls, and I doubt they'd want to keep a list of the hundreds of thousands of IP addresses of those who voted.

Heck, even an automated program similar to Game Therory's ChartGet program could execute a voting link a large number of times.

So I can't put much stock in most online polls where the voting is made online instead of outgoing calls and sound statistical techniques.

Tom
10-09-2004, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Suff
You got Fox News on? Carl Cameron just announced that Fox's own group of controlled Debate watchers, gave kerry a 5% Margin of Victory in tonights Debate.

Everybody box stuffs and everybody see's it thier own way. But the Numbers are nowwhere near the Hyperbole that I've been reading on the board all Night.

And how many threads do we need to discuss the debate? One for every question? Its mainly a Horse Board and when the 5 most recent threads are all politics and all on the same subject (re:the debate) Its like clutter.
It's like off topic.
Where were your complaints when the libs started about 10 threads last week?
So start a horse thread.
:D

Suff
10-09-2004, 12:17 AM
ook. I did give the Keeneland card a good workover tonight. I'm going to Foxwoods tommorrow and they have NEVER taken NYRA due to a long standing Feud.... So I'm playing Keenland Tommorrow.


btw... When someone calls me a liberal. I eat it up. Being called a Liberal is like being called a Great Handicapper or an exceptional poker Player. Its really something to be very proud of. I love it.:)

GameTheory
10-09-2004, 12:19 AM
Suff, would you like me to swing one of the quick polls the other way for you? They are hacked with a coordinated effort it seems -- it is incredibly easy to do and they don't seem to have any safeguards whatsoever. One tell-tale sign is that the polls are all exactly the same -- normally they are skewed towards the demographic of the news organization. Foxnews is showing the same results as CNN -- that NEVER happens. They are hacked.

Too bad, it would be nice to see an honest poll. We'll have to wait a day or two for the scientific polls to come out...

Lefty
10-09-2004, 12:24 AM
Ok, Suff, I commend you for liking being called a liberal. Now if only your candidate could own up to it.

Suff
10-09-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by GameTheory
Suff, would you like me to swing one of the quick polls the other way for you? ...

I knew when I saw the numbers that the Zealots were at it. But as I read the post of the 1/2 dozen guys who were "Bush is Killing him" all night I figured I'd use the numbers.

Here's what I see. Many stations are already replaying the part of the debate where Bush Interupts the Moderator and jumps off his stool and goes off on tangent. I did'nt really pick up on it during the debate... but when it is played as a cip it is very unflattering. And if thats the clip that gets run on the 30 second news flash's tonight and all weekend... That could spell big trouble for bush. It's pretty ugly when its played as a clip.

Plus. I will only appoint Justices that oppose slavery? Thats not even a funny Joke.

And when he says about who he'll appoint to the supreme court he says "I want them guys voting for me".

Who's he talking about... The current court? Re: Florida. He's pre-politicing the eventual appeal

Shacopate
10-09-2004, 01:30 AM
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265

Jake
10-09-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by GameTheory
Suff, would you like me to swing one of the quick polls the other way for you? They are hacked with a coordinated effort it seems -- it is incredibly easy to do and they don't seem to have any safeguards whatsoever. One tell-tale sign is that the polls are all exactly the same -- normally they are skewed towards the demographic of the news organization. Foxnews is showing the same results as CNN -- that NEVER happens. They are hacked.

Too bad, it would be nice to see an honest poll. We'll have to wait a day or two for the scientific polls to come out...

Jake
10-09-2004, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by GameTheory
Suff, would you like me to swing one of the quick polls the other way for you? They are hacked with a coordinated effort it seems -- it is incredibly easy to do and they don't seem to have any safeguards whatsoever. One tell-tale sign is that the polls are all exactly the same -- normally they are skewed towards the demographic of the news organization. Foxnews is showing the same results as CNN -- that NEVER happens. They are hacked.

Too bad, it would be nice to see an honest poll. We'll have to wait a day or two for the scientific polls to come out...


Game Theory,

If you think you can hack the polls, then do so. I would love to see the results. Otherwise, you blowing smoke....

dav4463
10-09-2004, 02:08 AM
The polls are definitely screwed up based on the Cheney/Edwards debate because there was absolutely NO WAY that a rational person could POSSIBLY think that Edwards won. Cheney completely dominated and made Edwards look like a dumb little schoolboy. As for tonight, the Kerry voters would have voted that kerry won the debate even if he fell down on the podium , fell asleep, whatever, they would never admit that Bush did anything well...because of their simple-minded blind hatred of the president.

Jake
10-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by dav4463
The polls are definitely screwed up based on the Cheney/Edwards debate because there was absolutely NO WAY that a rational person could POSSIBLY think that Edwards won. Cheney completely dominated and made Edwards look like a dumb little schoolboy. As for tonight, the Kerry voters would have voted that kerry won the debate even if he fell down on the podium , fell asleep, whatever, they would never admit that Bush did anything well...because of their simple-minded blind hatred of the president.


Actually, what is going on is that both parties have extensive emails lists, and have asked their supporters to go online and vote for their particular candidate as the "winner' of the debates. In many cases, you can vote multiple times. So it simply become a brute force exercise. If that meets the criteria of a hack, then Game Theory is correct, but I don't believe there is an actual organized malicious cracking/hacking attack under way. Of course, given the current politcal climate, I could be completely mistaken.

PaceAdvantage
10-09-2004, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by Suff
And how many threads do we need to discuss the debate? One for every question? Its mainly a Horse Board and when the 5 most recent threads are all politics and all on the same subject (re:the debate) Its like clutter.

That's why they are all clearly marked OFF TOPIC. So that folks who DON'T want to read them, don't have to read them.

PaceAdvantage
10-09-2004, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by Suff
I just showed you three polls with close to a 1/2 Million Voters. All 3 say Bush got his clock cleaned again.

Wow is right. I just clicked on Fox and they have the poll showing 328,000+ votes, with 50% for Kerry, 49% for Bush.

Clock cleaned?

You don't like Fox? OK then....

Here's a quote from an article posted on CNN just 3 hours ago:

There was no clear winner of the second presidential debate, a poll taken late Friday suggests.

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup snap poll taken immediately after the presidential debate Friday night found that respondents gave a slight, statistically insignificant edge to Sen. John Kerry over President Bush, 47 percent to 45 percent.

Clock cleaned?

Don't like CNN? Ok then....

Here's a quote from ABC news:

Among registered voters who watched Friday night's debate, 44 percent called John Kerry the winner, 41 percent said President Bush won and 13 percent called it a tie. That three-point difference between Kerry and Bush is within the poll's margin of sampling error.

Sampling, data collection and tabulation for this poll were done by TNS.

It's a bit of a comedown for Kerry from the first debate, which viewers by a nine-point margin, 45 percent to 36 percent, said he won.

Clock cleaned? Not bloody likely.

GameTheory
10-09-2004, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by Jake
Actually, what is going on is that both parties have extensive emails lists, and have asked their supporters to go online and vote for their particular candidate as the "winner' of the debates. In many cases, you can vote multiple times. So it simply become a brute force exercise. If that meets the criteria of a hack, then Game Theory is correct, but I don't believe there is an actual organized malicious cracking/hacking attack under way. Of course, given the current politcal climate, I could be completely mistaken. I think it is both, actually. Lots of people voting on polls they wouldn't otherwise -- a "normal" person isn't going to vote in 12 different quick polls 5 seconds after a debate, but I'm sure lots people did that would find the results amusing. Now if some of those people happen to know their way around a computer, it would occur to them how it would be quite easy to program their computer to do their voting for them, except they could have their computer vote 10000 times more than they could manually, and even make it appear to be coming from different IP addresses if they wanted to. (Also keep in mind there is nothing stopping people in other countries from voting in quickie online polls).

Bottom line: they don't reflect anything near a true sample -- not even close. In this case all they showed is that Kerry has some immature supporters who took the time to skew the results...

Figman
10-09-2004, 09:59 AM
All polls should be outlawed!
People should be made to think for themselves and not be swayed by the opinion of others. What good does any poll do?

GameTheory
10-09-2004, 10:15 AM
The first real poll is out, with much more normal results:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/09/snap.poll/

Tom
10-09-2004, 11:04 AM
The nice thing about having the debate on Friday night is you get basically two days befroe you have to listen to everyone on TV and radio desect it.
I watched, it I interpreted it, and I don't need a poll or a talk show to tell what to think about it.
In my mind, Bush clearly dominated Kerry and Kerry looked like an ignorant bufoon. Case closed.

It would be a good idea, in my opinion, that for 7 days befrore the election, all campaigning has to cease, no TV or radio prgrams were allowed to talk about either candicate, sort of a de-militarized zone - no politics for 7 days.
What would the result of the election be like?
Probably, 70-75% of the people would forget about the election and not vote.

Lefty
10-09-2004, 11:50 AM
I guess you didn't catch the chuckle when Bush said I want them guys voting for me. It's called humor. Something your candidate has none of and why is Kerry so afreaid to go on Bill O'Reilly. Bush did. He's got more guts than Kerry and it shows.

witchdoctor
10-09-2004, 02:54 PM
Somehow I got on the DNC email list. This is how you stuff the ballot.


An "online coup d'etat." That's how CBS News described your efforts after the debate last Thursday.

John Kerry did his part with a powerful performance that showed America they can expect strong and principled leadership when he is our commander-in-chief. But it was your efforts that kept the Republicans from spinning their way to victory.

Now we need your help again. Tonight, John Edwards and Dick Cheney will meet for the only vice presidential debate of the campaign. Once again, we need you to take action the moment they leave the stage.

There are four critical things you can do to help beat the Republican spin machine.

Forward this email to family, coworkers, and friends.
Vote in online polls.
Write a letter to the editor.
Call radio and television stations.
Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference. It is important that we double our efforts from the last debate, because the Republicans are now copying our strategy.

Vote in Online Polls
National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/
MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Wall Street Journal: http://www.wsj.com/
LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/
Akron Beacon-Journal: http://www.ohio.com/
Minneapolis-St. Paul Star-Tribune: http://www.startribune.com/
Orlando Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/
Philadelphia Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/
South Florida Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/
And be sure to check the websites of your local newspapers and TV stations for online polls. It is crucial that you do this in the minutes immediately following the debate.

Make sure swing voters know why you support John Kerry by sharing your thoughts on message boards in target states. Visit our 2004 Debate Center after the debate for a list of message boards where you can fight the Republican spin. If you visit chat rooms on AOL, MSN, Yahoo, or other websites, be sure to let people know what you thought of the debate.

Write a Letter to the Editor
Immediately after the debate, go online and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. If you feel John Edwards presented an optimistic vision for the next four years, put it in your letter. If you feel Dick Cheney failed to explain the last four years of failed policies, put it in your letter.

Writing a letter is easier than you think. It takes just a few minutes and just a few clicks using our online media center:

http://www.democrats.org/media/

Call Radio and TV Stations
TV and radio coverage immediately following the debate is where much of the spin is cemented. Make sure you call radio and TV stations to tell them what you thought.

Find shows in your area on our media website:

http://www.democrats.org/media/find.html

Also...
Don't forget to visit our 2004 Debate Center before, during, and after the debate for important information and more ways to take action.

http://www.democrats.org/debates/

Thank you,


Terry McAuliffe
Chairman

PS: Make sure to forward this email to at least 10 other people who will be watching the debate. Also, print out copies for your friends, family members, coworkers and neighbors and get them involved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JustMissed
10-09-2004, 04:09 PM
When I see Terry McAuliffe on TV and he starts one of his scripted talking point rants, it is as if his face and head become contorted and I can almost make out the image of a horned Satan.

Do you think McAuliffe could be possessed by the Devil?

I personally don't hate John Kerry. I think he is a light-weight and perhaps is what we called in the Navy a "skate", but I don't hate him or wish him any thing bad for him.

There are so many people that actually hate George Bush with a passion and some of them(Hollywood types and their left wing journalist whores)are so radical about their hatred for Bush, it is frightening.

Makes me wonder that since George Bush is a public professing Christian if those rabid left-wing DemLibs are not really possessed by evil demons.

You know dark hates light. Evil hate Good. Satan hates God and Godly people.

I just remembered when old Dan Rather, the forger, got busted by the bloggers and he had to go on the air and try to support his lying story. If you looked closely at Rather, his face also became contorted and he took on the look of a Demon too.

Got to make you wonder don't you think?

The Demorcratic Party used to be full of wonderful people. I just don't know what has made their hearts turn so dark.

JM
:(

Lefty
10-09-2004, 09:56 PM
The head of the DNC should be in jail. They jailed Martha for taking a call from her broker while Mcauliffe made millions in the Global Crossing debacle. Sold his stock just in time, don'tcha know...

Secretariat
10-10-2004, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Figman
All polls should be outlawed!
People should be made to think for themselves and not be swayed by the opinion of others. What good does any poll do?

Bravo Figman...bravo.

I am in total agreement. Who the <Cheney> needs a poll to tell them who won the debate? If you can't figure it out for yourself and need the reassurance of others you probably shouldn't be voting.

It's nice to hear that your candidate was selected or not by a majority, but it really means nothing except for some stroking of your ego.

I think really IF there are going to be polls, they should be conducted at least two days after the debates to review the facts and lies and distortions and get them out to the public before they vote. For example, Cheney stated so many lies the VP debate it was embarassing.

Lefty
10-10-2004, 02:15 AM
The media uses polls to create the news instead of merely report it.

dav4463
10-10-2004, 02:22 AM
I think it is funny that Cheney didn't remember meeting Edwards before. He must not have made much of an impression !