Announcement for all PA members

[Tote Master]

Comments
I have visited the PA site from time to time in the past, and I must say, that this is definitely one of the more sophisticated racing sites on the web. It’s obviously a reflection of its membership. On some occasions I’ve noticed “Q & A” regarding the tote board. To be honest, that’s my purpose for joining. It gives me an opportunity to confirm that the tote board is definitely a player’s “best” friend (if you know how to get the most out of it). I understand how some of the PA members may feel about an “unknown” posting the following message, especially when it comes to spamming. That is not my intention by any means! Just think of it as a "Press" (or "Net") release, especially since my URL isn't posted anywhere.

Background
To give you a little background, I’ve been at this game since Canonero II won the first (2) legs of the Triple Crown. That’s right, the “golden” era of racing: The 70’s. There will never be another decade of racing like it! Yet, it’s only been over the last (5) years that I’ve discovered things about this game that have shaken the very foundation of everything I’ve previously learned and believed. All thanks to a close track buddy of my mine that's unfortunately no longer with us. Since then I’ve done quite well. Now I would like to share this with those smart enough to take advantage of it.

Special Announcement
This message is intended for any “Serious” player that is interested in taking his or her game to the
next level. You are welcome to obtain more information by contacting: totemaster@frontiernet.net

This is a “One-time” opportunity and only a limited number of inquiries will be acknowledged.
I’m sure it’s not for everyone, but I’m also sure some will immediately recognize its value.
Please keep in mind that this will not be available for very long, and it will not be repeated.

Simply put “Request for Tote Information” in the Subject area of your message.

Please Note:
This is not a promotion for any type of handicapping service and does not in any way attempt
to compete or infringe with the services or information provided by this site.
I also want thank the Administrator of PA for allowing me to post this message.

Best of Luck to you All
Tote Master

[andicap]

threat on hottalkers involving this guy

Just an FYI

http://www.hottalkers.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=008553

[JPinMaryland]

Hows come our group is the most sophisticated but the other group is most friendly? Hey! I thought we were the more friendly group.

[JustRalph]

Thanks Andi.......

[NoDayJob]

:D O.K. "babe", lay it on us---HOW MUCH? Probably not worth squat, except to those who belong on the "dummie" pile. :D

NDJ

[cosmicway]

I like a good salesman but you have to thoroughly explain first what it is you are doing.
If you say things like "shaken the very foundation" and "once in a lifetime opportunity" it does n't work.
Or does it ?
May be you are a congressman.

[PaceAdvantage]

The guy said it would be a one time post, but I warned him to expect the unexpected when it came to replies.

But, I will give Tote Master this much....at least he ASKED ME FOR PERMISSION before he posted, which is what it states in the USER AGREEMENT of this board. No unauthorized ads.

Thank you Tote Master for at least ASKING. That's more than I can say for most who have something to sell.

[Tote Master]

Well, I’m not really surprised with the warm welcome. It seems that all groups have their “Doubting Thomas’s”. (For sure) Maybe I was a bit over zealous when I used the word “sophisticated”.
My reply to the above comments are as follows:

To Cosmicway, I would suggest coming back down to earth and perhaps re-reading my initial post. This time please use a better interpreter. Did I say “Once in a life time”, or “One Time opportunity”? My use of the words “shaken the very foundation” simply describe how much my game improved, once I realized that every horse in a race is not necessarily there to try and win. So, you tell me where in the DRF or any other source will you find that information? I have the source my friend and a politician I’m not! If you would like a thorough explanation, a simple inquiry would suffice.

To NoDayJob, I say, you have every right to be skeptical, but why not take a look before you make a comment. You might learn something new about this great game! Are you saying that your fellow members are “dummies” for looking at something new, or because they don’t know how to make a good decision for themselves? In terms of cost, everything is spelled out. If someone finds that it doesn’t provide the value or meet their expectations, they simply stop using it.

To JPinMaryland, I say, my use of the words “sophisticated” and “friendly” were simply used to describe my impression of both the PA and HT forums. I’m sure you can interchange them, especially if you’re a member of both. Take it for whatever its worth. If you don’t fit in either category, I apologize.

To Andicap, I say, that I’ve posted my message and announcement on my horseracing sites. I don’t discriminate, and I won’t post it if I don’t receive approval. Unfortunately, there doesn’t see to be as many “Serious” players on the web as I thought. Many seem to certainly be able to talk it up, but when it comes to making “real” profits they’re lost. My goal is simply to share an opportunity.

To PA Administrator, I say thanks once again for giving me this opportunity, and also for giving your members a chance to see a side of this game that many ignore.

I appreciate those of you who have taken the time to inquire.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[sq764]

Sounds like you are associating 'serious players' with those who are looking for a new savior.. I would think that serious players are comfortable and confident in what they are currently using..

Lastly, I think serious players are very skeptical of anything new that comes out, considering that 99.9% of the software that comes out is total garbage.

[cosmicway]

You have to publish your method to make sense.
What is your website ?

It is of course a tricky affair if said method relies on human interference.
Not that it bothers me as "any money coming from other peoples' pockets and entering mine is welcome", but relying on individuals is of course tricky as you don't want to expose them.
At the same time you may sooner or later become yourself the recepient of false information.

[Tote Master]

Thanks for the continued comments and interest.
My replies are as follows:

To sq764, I question how you derive "that" association from what I’ve written. Unless of course you think I believe that my “track buddy” (who introduced me to the fine points of the tote-board) is going to somehow resurrect himself! I considered myself a “Serious” player long before I was introduced to the tote board. To be honest I was as skeptical as anyone should be. I think “Serious” applies to (2) aspects of the game for a player. It’s both psychological and financial. How many times have you ever scratched your head after a race, thinking that your selections were really sound, only to be beaten by an animal that showed absolutely nothing on paper? (Pretty frustrating right?) These types of situations affect not only our bankroll, but also the ability to think clearly and positively about our next bet. Now, think about using your handicapped selections in combination with a “source” that confirms the intentions of the animal’s connections. I wouldn’t waste anyone’s time or my own if I hadn’t seen the results for myself. And by the way, you’re probably correct about the handicapping software. If animals were machines and were not controlled by human greed, the programs would probably do a better job. I’m not peddling any kind of software, but I do have my finger on the pulse of the industry.

To Cosmicway, I just want to mention that part of my agreement with the PA administrator was not to publish the name of my site on the PA forum. I’m not looking for those who are seeking a get rich quick scheme. If you’re interested, just send me an e-mail message.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[sq764]

Curious.. If you have a source (or are the source) that knows the intentions of the horse, why would you want to share that information with anyone? Wouldn't this hurt your mutuels?

[cosmicway]

First let me apologize.
As a teacher of maths I rough-handle all my racing friends but at the end of the day we 're all friends and have a few drinks.

Now w.r. your website I found it in your profile so it's no secret really.
I understood what you are on about so let me make a few comments:

1st - "No horse wins if the connections are not expecting it to win"

Generally. The exceptions are there to prove the rule.

2nd - Tote fluctuations

My experience with those is a) from Greece, b) from the Racing Post site (UK).
In Greece the tote data are transmitted via tv so you can see
win, place, exacta and tricast tables continuously during the run up to the race.
Generally, the downward movers tend to have the edge.
The possibility of using software to analyze such data does not exist here, as the company who handles them do not make the stream available to third parties for computer analysis.
I went there one day and chatted with them about the possible uses but they are a cloak and dagger crowd really and not the friendliest of characters.
Anyway if one is experienced with a fast eye, it does gives a slight edge.
In the British Racing Post they have the win prices tabulated. Red colour indicates downward movement, blue colour indicates upward movement and black indicates "steadiness".
Usually the reds have it, while for the very short priced favourites the blue is probably not significant.
In both systems (Greek and British) it is the last minute that counts although occasionally you see a lump sum of money placed early on the (eventual) winner and not followed afterwards.

Also in my experience the market tells the story more likely in weak races and less so in the strong or derby races.
You should know that among the top notched owners and trainers the majority are not really interested in betting large amounts.

I don't place bets in U.S.A. so my interest is theoretical.
But I think your system is useful if it operates during the last minutes before the race - not with morning lines.

In the days before the tote (before 1995 in Greece) I believe
things were better.
Let me explain why.
Betting tickets were hang on walls in rows and you could see what was being purchased by whom while standing 50 feet away!
So for one knowing the who-is-who in the race course there was no need for market fluctuations. A 10 dollar wager from a horse connection could give you a solid clue, while a 5000 dollar wager from someone you knew was a certified fool meant nothing !
In fact, I have a dr. Jeckyl-mr. Haydn attitude towards the tote.

If you go to another thread I started "predicting the next speed figure" you will find that, perhaps unintentionally, I made a comment re. proponents of alternative methods.

In fact I think every method that has proved it's salt should be used:
speed computing, paddock inspections, shoe inspection and prices.

The tote board analysis is in my opinion an indespensable tool if handled properly and at the right time.
It does not cure all ailments but it is useful.
For the people who read I 'd say it depends on what functionality you give them and the subscription price you ask of course.

[cosmicway]

P.S. Paddock observations and the like do affect the tote - so you may have to think of compensating for that e.g. through written messages. Under such circumstances a price may drop but it's not due to connections.

[andicap]

TM,

was this your listing on e-bay? or anoter "Tote Master"

Horse Handicapping Book TOTE MASTER New, $9.99, 1, Apr-23 04:42. ...
sports.listings.ebay.com/Horse-Racing_Publications_ W0QQfromZR4QQlopgZ6QQsacategoryZ31668QQsocmdZListi ngIt

[Secretariat]

Anybody know of a service that downloads "on-going tote odds", and or pools, quickly. Any sites?

[Tote Master]

In reply to the above comments:

To sq764, I say simply that I take pride in my work and accomplishments to develop a successful analysis based on years and thousands of races. My “sharing” of this with others involves their access to the “results” of the analysis only, and not to the “nuts & bolts” of the analysis itself. I can also limit this access on a track-by-track basis each day. I highly doubt my group will have any noticeable impact on the mutual handle, only because they each have their own betting styles and preferences. Most seem to agree that betting every race is not in their best interest.

To Cosmicway, I say thanks for your candor, but as a retired engineer, I’ve done a bit of math in my time as well. Understanding it is one thing, but applying it is another. My analysis is not based on just math alone, but statistics and logic as well. By the way, your “1st” premise does not follow my argument at all. Its not a question of whether the animal’s connections are “expecting a win”. Any decent handicapper “can anticipate a win” the same as those closely involved with the animal. The analysis of the tote board measures their “intentions” in terms of money, which in my book drives this entire game.
In reference to your “general description” of understanding the results of the betting from the tracks in Greece and the UK is what I call “a betting pattern”. If you’ve discovered a bias in the “Time” factor in relation to the odds on the board, you’ve uncovered what many unfortunately “think” provides an a simple answer. Based on what I’ve seen, each track in the U.S. and Canada posses its own unique “betting patterns”. I find it hard to believe that you can generalize by stating that “all tracks in Greece and the UK produce the same indicators (bias): That the “late” money is the most compelling indicator.”
In conclusion, I certainly share the same regard for the tote analysis in terms of being an “indispensable tool”. However, I “pre-qualify” the analysis that is used for each track for many valid reasons. My subscribers have access to its results on a race-by-race basis. From your “P.S.”, I appreciate your input, but I’m satisfied with the results I’m getting. That’s not to say that my analysis does not undergo continuous scrutiny and recalibration when necessary, but any modification is always driven by “actual” results.

To Andicap, I say, “no”, that the “Tote Master” you’re referring to and my use of that name is only a coincidence. But don’t let that stop you from purchasing a book! Since I haven’t read the book myself, it could be about the “manufacture of tote bags” for all I know. I find it curious that you’re trying to connect me with “other” things on the net. As I mentioned, to the PA Administrator, you won’t find my site on any search engine. So when this thread disappears, the opportunity is gone.

Thanks once again to those of you who have taken the time to inquire.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[cosmicway]

If you write down the total pools and the prices the theoretical
probability of a particular horse winning the race is

p = u / Ô

where u = total amount wagered on horse
T = total pool money

Over many races you add the posterior information bits:

I = Ó log(p)

where p is the winner's probability.

The mean probability is Q = exp(I/N) (of the order of 21%)

Now do the same using

p1 = Äu / ÄÔ

where Äu , ÄT are incremental amounts representing the last minute play

You should find higher Q values, indicating that p1 is a superior probability estimator.

So you have expectational values

M = probability x price = (Äu / ÄT) x (1-k) x T / u

where k is the racecourse's percentage take (typically 20%)

M can be >1 in this scheme, whereas without tote analysis
M = 1 - k < 1 , always.

The same applies to exactas etc.

This is the basis of the theory.
It requires from you to be on line with the data stream and analyze them continuously.

Of course if, somehow, you know WHO bets WHAT horse it gets considerably better.

Such theories are based on the total neglect of any other factors, such as speed, established running profiles and the like.
I don't think you or anyone should ignore them and I never follow the trend if the running profile is an absolute no-no for the race - let the others get rich I say.

I should mention that the win prices -which are the simplest to read- are not so reliable in Greece.
The money wagered is too small as everybody prefers the tetracast and tricast bets.
Winning a tetracast requires you to spread your bets a bit but it can be done.


p.s. sure I know the guys who anticipate a win. they bring good looking ladies with them dressed to kill. if the ladies are beautiful but not dressed to kill, it does n't count.

[rrbauer]

Tote Master wrote:The analysis of the tote board measures their “intentions” in terms of money, which in my book drives this entire game.

Questions: Any chance that "their" is related to the infamous "they"? Can you tell if the dollar-streams hitting the mutuel pool are coming from the "connections"; or, from the pockets of speed handicappers and sheet readers? Can you tell if the "connections" are betting/not betting into the mutuel pools/offshore books? Have you ever been in a trainer's box (connection?) and listened to him explain why his horse can't win; and, then watch it win and pay $84?

I'm sure that in your years around the track, that you've heard the expression, "So-and-so likes his horse today." (So-and-so is an owner.) Or, "So-and-so is betting his horse today." Can you differentiate as to whether So-and-so just likes his horse today; or, is he betting his horse today? Here's the reason that I ask:
In my early days in the game I knew a couple owners and a jockey agent, or two, and exercise riders (who would call me at the most asnine hours to tell me about a horse that was running today), etc. Now, in that circle of "friends", I mentioned once that So-and-so liked his horse today, and the retorts were unbelievable. "He oughta like it. He's paying Joe Trainer (at the time) $25 a day; he's paying Doc Vetter $150 a month; he's paying the smitty $12 a shoe. His Workers Comp is another $300 a month, the jock mount is $35 everytime he runs it, and so far in six tries, the horse's best finish is 4th. How do you think he would feel if he didn't like the horse?" Course, maybe in that case, So-and-so couldn't afford to bet his horse. But, your analysis can figure that out. Right?

[cosmicway]

I 've heard of "decoy" bets.
If the tote pool is small you lower the odds of a given horse and bet large amounts with the bookmakers on another horse.
This can be done in areas where there exists parallel betting agents.
The bookmaker fixes his prices following the tote, and in this way you manage to fool the system (as the theory goes).
I think it's infrequent but only yesterday someone was telling me they do it a lot in Italy.

Overall the system works as I describe in the second last post.
If you can somehow work out who the backers are then it's better.
But let nobody jump over the clouds. It is a help -like Microsoft office assistant- and nothing more.

I don't know how proficient Tote Master's design is but it can be done, granted the willing participation of the totalizator operators in the racecourse.

[Hosshead]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Anybody know of a service that downloads "on-going tote odds", and or pools, quickly. Any sites? Have you tried ATR?

[Tote Master]

Thanks for the continued interest and comments.
My replies are as follows:

To rrbauer, I say: It’s impossible to know exactly where the wagered money originates. However, I have studied the tote board for years and understand the impact and relationship that each betting pool has on the outcome of a race. These relationships are “built-it” to my analysis. It is also important to be able to recognize “the when” as it applies the wagering on each race. Believe it or not (and contrary to the comments by Cosmicway), I’ve found that the betting at each track demonstrates its own unique “betting pattern”. My analysis monitors every dollar, in every pool, at every minute. It does this for each entry and for the totals in every pool. At preset “Time Intervals” it records the results of the analysis and makes it available for all subscribers to see. I have found that certain “Intervals” provide the best information, and only those “Intervals” are provided. With regard to monies coming in late from “outside” sources, I have found that this “late money” dilutes the effectiveness of the analysis and is not considered.

I have heard "those" expressions you’ve mentioned used many times, but “actions speak louder than words”. I really don’t care how much “they” claim about an animal’s chances, or “their expectations” for it to do well. If they don’t put “their” (or someone else’s) money where their mouth is then why should I? Of course you’re going to see an aberration from time-to-time when even the “connections” don’t have a clue as to how well their horse “fits the conditions” of the race. However, this is a very rare occurrence.

You mentioned some of the “costs” of maintaining a stable of racehorses. Well, this is a business like any other, and all business have their “operating expenditures”. In order to remain profitable (or break even), most owners/trainers do not rely solely on the their share of winning purses. It’s a known fact that many have to bet order to remain solvent, and the analysis definitely picks-up their betting activities.

To Cosmicway, I say: Your mathematical expression (while valid to some degree) only scratches the surface. Again, it deals with “expectations” and “probability”, while my analysis involves a comparison and ratios of all the pools and a breakdown of the activity for each entry in a race. My goal here is not to “prove” anything or “give away” years of work by explaining all the details of my efforts. I am simply offering what I have found to be an “indispensable” tool to those who “Seriously” want to make money at this game. Most subsribers will use either their own (or someone else’s) handicapped selections with my analysis. I know this might be hard for many to believe, but I have become so familiar with the tote board analysis at number of tracks, that I can now place both “win” and “exotic” wagers without the need of any handicapping whatsoever! The results have sometimes even astonished me. I just recommend that if anyone is interested in gaining an appreciation of what I feel is the most important aspect of this game, that all they have to do is make a simple inquiry (see announcement). It costs absolutely nothing to try it out.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[cosmicway]

Question:

Are the racecourses cooperating with you and sending you data feeds ?
Would you be prepared to apply to INTRALOT to gain access to the Greek races ?

A principal worry the racecourses might have is lest it makes them vulnerable to hacking attempts or in this way facilitate illegal bookmaking. They may also want to keep things for themselves.
Can such "resistance" be overcome ?

Last, if you are inside the totalizator company you can to an extent tell where the money originates, because the area from which betting tickets are coming in is marked on them (that being a somewhat irregular mode of operation of course).

[cosmicway]

p.s.

Now I remember we tried that for a few days once upon a time using a laptop, with a friend who is also a racing agent.
I was speed typing the win prices from the tv screen at successive intervals and he was doing the betting.
The question we asked from the computer program was to break down or "dutch" the betting amounts so the return was always the same.
With all the runners in, the result is negative of course so some runners were omitted.
I think it was a pretty naive method and he also foolishly passed away some key horses so he came up a loser in the end.

It can't be done by speed typing - you need accuracy.
Also I tend to agree with Tote-master any formula used must be
checked and experimented with over many races before considered valid.

[cosmicway]

ps(2)

The question of illegal bookmaking does to a certain extent prove the validity of the method.
The bookies are smart and from totalizator data they can work out some probable winners.
Then they make a telephone call to an accomplish in the race course and burn the dangerous money.

Depriving them of data feed makes it a little difficult for them.
In 1992, when the first cell phones appeared and there was no totalizator equipment yet installed, you could see 40 or 50 people wired standing infront of the chalk boards.
Because of their large number they were not afraid of police (!) but in the end one was caught and they broke up.
Now the illegal bookies in Greece have vanished or rather do soccer only.

I made a huge profit from them one day when I saw a spotless guy coming to the ticket box with a suitcase full of money.
Though it was late in the day, his hair was carefully combed and his shoes were shining as new.
So I followed his selection and then ran away with the grab.

[Tote Master]

To Cosmicway: If the tote data feed is available over the net, it is accessible. It’s usually in the form of 3rd party information and not sourced directly from the totalizer. So knowing where the bets originate is not really feasible. Not only that! All of my data is saved for thousands of races, so I can return to it at any time to test different variations of the analysis, to see which works better. Before a “new” track is added to the “available” list, the results of the analysis must prove itself against “actual” race results over a long period of time. Even the subscribers have access to the “archived” race analysis. They can then establish personal betting criteria for their preferred tracks. Unfortunately, my background constantly dictates my attitude toward “perfection”, and it seems that I’m never completely satisfied.

Best of Luck

[cosmicway]

try http://www.intralot.com

[Tote Master]

Thanks for the continued interest and inquiries. Your comments both supportive and skeptical are welcomed.

To Cosmicway, I say: I hope you received my PM, but in case you didn’t, the URL supplied does not provide an access link to any form of data. Perhaps you have to be a “member” to gain access, I’m not sure.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[formula_2002]

PA.. suggestion.. allow these fellow to advertise here providing they can post picks that can produce at least half the profits Wolson’s posted picks have produced.

Just a sample

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14765

He has also posted 500 picks that produced a profit.

It's all documented on PA.

Joe M

[Suff]

Yes.. PA, whats with all the sales Pitch's your allowing lately? I did see that one guy asked you... but I have noticed that its getting common for people to pitch crapola on yoru board lately. Thats my Impression.

As far as this guy Tote Master. Have you informed him that you accept no advertising? That you Volunteer all your time and money to operate this www site. And that you do not allow "Freeloaders" to pitch thier goods for nothing here?

Anyone... any business, any individual can buy ADS on DRF.com, or Thoroughbred times.com... Its simple. Thats what Business's do. They don't go into someones home and Hang banners in thier Living room. They don't hang free billboards on street signs.

This guy has been stretching this thread for weeks. He's no dope. He answers and/or responds to individual questions with Posts... why? At the very least he should be responding with E-mail or private messages to these people. Not Posting a board wide Tutorial on his product.

PA , its yoru board , and whatever you do, you do. But guys like this take advantage of you. There are many PA members that sell Handicapping related products. They respect your rules. But I'm sure they scratch they're heads a Litte but when they see this guy show up out of nowhere and has made no contribution to this board. Othert than Hawking his wares he has'nt posted one piece of interesting or useful information on Thoroughbred Horseracing. He's a Bottom feeder, a scumbag.

Mike

[Tote Master]

To formula_2002, I say you must be part of that group that wants everything for nothing. You want people to give you the fish, instead of wanting to learn how to fish for yourself. (Typical Liberal attitude.)

So your saying you want people to “prove themselves” before they can post an advertisement? Well first off you apparently can’t distinguish between an “announcement” and “advertisement” at all. Secondly, even if it were, I couldn’t post “live” selections because this forum doesn’t accommodate it Even if it did, guys like you would complain that you didn’t have enough time to place a bet. (If you really bet at all?)

I congratulate the effectiveness of Wolson’s selections, but did you ask Mike the PA administrator, before you could “advertise” his URL. Mine is not posted anywhere on this thread. So who’s advertising?

In terms of documentation and results, my subscribers have complete access to hundreds of archived races that have been previously analyzed. You won’t see me touting a thing. Why? Because I let the results speak for themselves. After a Trial member uses up their (30) FREE live race card analysis, they simply make a choice (for themselves by the way) as to whether or not my service meets their needs or meets their expectations. And guess what? It doesn’t cost them a dime!

To Suff, I say: Your username must be short for Suffering. Its sounds like you must have had a really good weekend! (Oh, that’s right you’re Boston fan!) I guess you’re in the same league as formula. Apparently you can’t distinguish between an “announcement” and “advertisement” either. Based on your comments, you seem to have problems with a lot of things, including Addition. My announcement was placed on this forum on the 10/8. Today is 10/17. That doesn’t look like weeks to me! If it bothers you so much, why not just post your words of wisdom on another thread or do as you suggested and send some e-mails or PM’s.

Based on your comments you seem to be a typical “Control Freak”. This the land of “Free Enterprise” my friend (and I say that loosely), so get used to it. You also seem to have completely ignored or misunderstood my original announcement altogether. My “goods” as you call it is not a handicapping service by any means. I gave up on the educated guesswork approach (5) years ago.

In terms of responding by e-mail, that’s exactly what I do. If you think what I’ve posted is a tutorial on my tote board analysis, I again must question your comprehension abilities. As far as posting something of value or interest is concerned, I’m afraid you couldn’t recognize that if it bit you in the face. Most people that have an interest and inquire seem to at least have an open mind to something new and innovative.

I can understand anyone’s issues or concerns with “actual” advertising, but I didn’t realize that the PA forum was a place for profanity either. If I were a “bottom feeder”, I’d be looking for degenerates like you! And believe me that is not the case. Your rude characterization is totally uncalled for, but then again “Who’s Your Sugar Daddy? (Sorry guys, only a Boston fan can relate to that)

To the Mike the PA administrator, I say: You were absolutely correct in your assessment of the potential for this kind of stuff. I still believe (based on the general response) that the above does not represent the majority of the PA membership.

Have a Nice Evening
Tote Master

[Tom]

I'll say this.
Suff is a mainstay here. Has been for years. He contributes. To the board and off. He has hosted two Toga outings that have been the highlight of many a poster's summer the last two years. When it comes to generosity, Suff is second to none.
Personally, I don't care what anyone sells or announces, but after only a couple of weeks here, to call Suff a degenerate is out of line IMHO.
Suff has many friends here who repsect him. He earned that respect.

[sq764]

And if you're going to try to insult a Boston fan, at least get the phrase right.. Otherwise it makes you look like an ass..

[Tote Master]

To Tom, I say: I’m at a real disadvantage here because I don’t know who everyone is. It’s certainly nice to hear that Suff is more of a person then he appears to be from his comments. Whether he’s made 10 or 10,000 posts on this forum, I’m not sure that gives him or anyone else the right to use that type of language. I call it as a see it, and from what I saw his offensive words appeared FIRST not mine! To me that is out of line! I have nothing to gain here by responding like that, but I won’t let him or anyone else misconstrue my announcement or portray me as such.

To Sq764, I say: I wasn’t trying to insult anyone, simply state a fact. If I left a word or two out, so be it. You seemed to understand what it means. Maybe Pedro is your kind of player, but I have very little regard for any player (or person) that attacks an old man.
I didn’t realize that leaving a word out would offend anyone. You must be a Yankee fan.

[formula_2002]

Originally posted by Tote Master
To formula_2002[/B], I say you must be part of that group that wants everything for nothing. You want people to give you the fish, instead of wanting to learn how to fish for yourself. (Typical Liberal attitude.)

After a Trial member uses up their (30) FREE live race card analysis, they simply make a choice (for themselves by the way) as to whether or not my service meets their needs or meets their expectations. And guess what? It doesn’t cost them a dime!

Your logic broadcast it's own warning.

[PaceAdvantage]

You guys make good points. THere is too much free advertising going on this board right now.

So, I am going back to my strict rules. No more free advertising.

This includes anyone who has done so in the past, even with my blessing (and yes, this includes HSH, CompuTrak, Equisim, among others....)

Now, I hope to have some sort of revenue producing model set up in the very near future. Unobtrusive banner ads (I hate pop-ups as much as the rest of you), along with perhaps a separate section of the forum where paying advertisers can post more detailed descriptions of what they have to offer.

I know many of you have suggested a separate section of the message board solely for advertisers, so I assume there won't be much objection to this idea....

It's time to clean up this board. I've been quite distracted these past few months, and haven't devoted as much time to this board as I should. This is going to change.

I'd also like to see more discussion of handicapping, and less discussion of Bush/Kerry....LOL (I know I'm as much to blame as anyone for fueling the political discussions, and I enjoy them, but would like to see more meaty handicapping and wagering threads)

I'll step off my soapbox for now...

[sq764]

Tote, he attacked an old man??

What was he supposed to do when some 75 year old slob is charging at him? Let him hit him? He actually spared him from a LOT of harm by doing what he did..

Christ, get a clue.

[Tote Master]

To formula_2002, I say: You conveniently left off the opening sentence to the second paragraph “quoted”. Your logic seems a bit far-fetched too. I guess some people can look at a glass being half empty, while others see it as being half full.

To sq764, I say: If knocking him flat on his back, and him hitting his head on the ground is what you consider sparing him, then I question, Sparing him from what? I simple gesture of just backing off or any attempt to avoid the confrontation would have been the right thing to do. I’m afraid your opinion is in the minority on this one. Maybe I was wrong, and you’re a Boston fan after all. They certainly managed to squeak one out last night, but I think the Yankee lineup will prove to be too much for Boston’s pitching staff.

To Mike the PA administrator, I say: I certainly have no problem with your changes concerning advertising. The format that you describe sounds real good. I purposely did not structure my announcement as an advertisement.
Most trade journals, magazines, and the like always provide an opportunity for organizations to make a public announcement via a press release. This is done for (2) reasons. One, to first of all make people aware of the new item, and secondly based on the response from the press release, the potential advertiser sees where the best the place is to solicit new customers through actual advertising.

Best of Luck
Tote Master

[sq764]

Well tote, if someone is charging me, 25 or 75, I am going right after his head.. So Pedro is a better man than I for doing what he did.. And no, I don't believe that's the minority.. Anyone that saw it and had 2 eyes knew he spared him major harm.

Stick to hawking your goods, as analytical thinking doesn't appear to be your strongsuit..

[John]

PA, No soapbox, that is the right thing to do.

If someone wants the members to know about their product. They should pay you for the privilege.
OR....have that vendor donate $$$ towards our annual TOGA party.I know for a fact that some members used their own money to make this a great event.Send the donation to Bill Weaver[ BillW ] Max McDonough [ MaxSpa ].Two good and honest gentleman.

A separate section of the message board solely for advertisers, is a good idea.

Also, I feel it is o.k. if a poster in the selection section wants to mention how he is selecting today such as "My pick today are from RaceProphet, POL, Equisim etc."

The above is just my opinion, I am sure others Will have better ideas.

John

[Larry Hamilton]

Not sure that is going to work without considerable monitoring, mike. Just look at this thread. It has not been admitted yet that THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT! Rather, it is portrated as an announcement...

[John]

Larry ,

You are right It sounds like I am hawking for something. but I am just trying to get something for something. It's just the way I express myself.

John

[JPinMaryland]

Have we defined what advertising is, on this forum? I havent read the entire thread so maybe I missed it.

I raise this because in a few days I will be running a contest to handicap the US election. The contest is free to anyone, we will give away some modest prizes and we are not asking anybody for anything. Other than to participate.

I would like to invite members to come visit the site (a friend of mine actually) and post their predictions. I would hate if I cannot do this.

[PaceAdvantage]

It gets tricky. Ultimately, I will have to be the one to define advertising....

Is giving away something for "free", but on a site that charges for other info, advertising??? Yes, I think it is....just in another form.

[JPinMaryland]

Re: Don Zimmer. Zimmer apologized for charging Pedro. He admitted he was wrong, I dont know if we ever had a vote on the issue but since Zimmer himself admitted he was wrong it's illogical to blame Pedro.

To Pace administrator: the way most people are making money on the internet is with those type of ads that are geared toward those type of people who visit your site. No more: "Do you like Dogs? Click here." type of ads.

Google does a program I think called Adsense and there other programs, I think one is called adwords. Yahoo has a program as well. There is a really good site where professional webmasters go called: Webmasterworld.com

You can learn a lot of stuff there about how to market your site. Maybe you already know about this stuff but if you dont...

[JPinMaryland]

Pace: I would agree, if the aim of a website is to make money, then anything directing people to that site has to be considerd advertising.

In fact, if you think about it, allowing people to post links to those types of site is taking money right out of your pocket if you are to go the commercial route.

I.e. if/when your site goes commercial you will be basically directing people toward sites that pay you for each person or click or whatever that goes there. It's basically how the internet generates money these days, for better or worse. The pt. is that if you let people post messages w/ links to these sites, then that defeats the purpose.

Again, this is if/when you decide to go the commercial route. Which I think is inevitable for most hi traffic sites.

The website I would like to direct people to is a blog, one man's blog and does not sell anything.

I think it would be easy to spot commercial sites from personal sites, like the one I mention above so I think your rule re: advertising would be easy to implement. I think.

[cosmicway]

So how do I get people to publish ads in my site ?
As I have incured some huge gambling losses I need advice.
Would illegal marketeers, like marijuana plants, be more willing to place ads ?

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by JPinMaryland
Have we defined what advertising is, on this forum? I havent read the entire thread so maybe I missed it.

I raise this because in a few days I will be running a contest to handicap the US election. The contest is free to anyone, we will give away some modest prizes and we are not asking anybody for anything. Other than to participate.

I would like to invite members to come visit the site (a friend of mine actually) and post their predictions. I would hate if I cannot do this.
and what data do you collect on each person who enters your contest? are you sharing that data i.e. selling it? are you collecting their history files when they log onto your website?

[JPinMaryland]

Jeezus! It's not even my site, it's my friend Nick's. He's from England I'll admit, but he's not completely evil. It's just a stupid blog he has and he doesnt even the run the site, it's one of those where you can get a free blog site...Ive never gotten any spam mail or anything from posting there. Check it out:

http://www.network54.com/Index/21398

A lot of it is about wargames which probably doesnt appeal to many people. But who knows? Maybe even CJ has an old copy of Panzerblitz he plays when things are slow at NATO.

I will be posting rules for election contest in a day or two.

[Hammerhead]

I for one tried this free service today at Belmont with very posative results. I will try it once again at Mnr tonight hoping I can read the betting as it will be differant then Belmont. What the hell its a free trial and I will see if it works