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Dick Schmidt
10-06-2004, 02:49 AM
This look from outside our borders is from the Toronto Star.



As the 2004 U.S. presidential election nears, there is no doubt the result will be crucial for America and the rest of the world.

George Bush deserves his second term. John Kerry deserves to be beaten -- and the more resoundingly he is beaten, the better it will be for American democracy.

Kerry is the poster-face of those Americans who drew the lesson from Vietnam that misuse of U.S. power is endemic because it serves an inherently exploitative capitalist economy.

Vietnam made these Americans -- predominantly liberal and influenced by the radical left -- turn their backs on the foreign policy shaped by Democratic presidents from Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman to John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson.

This was the policy of marshalling America's resources to contain and defeat enemies of freedom.

In Vietnam, this policy ran into trouble. As difficulties mounted there, an increasing number of Americans and leadership of the Democratic party came to view this policy as not only politically misguided, but also morally reprehensible.

Democrats became isolationists and defenders of accommodating the expanding Soviet communist empire by making a virtue of detente, conceived initially as an aspect of containment.

For the more chic lib-left intellectuals, American defeat (as in Vietnam) became a required cure for reforming American society.

In pushing the limits of critical dissent, post-Vietnam Democrats flirted with treason by consorting with freedom's enemy.

While historians debated whether America withdrew or was defeated, Democrats took the Vietnam experience to mean America must not get involved abroad -- whatever the cause.

The defeatist slogan of "bringing America home" formed the theme of George McGovern's Democratic bid for the presidency in 1972 against Richard Nixon. McGovern lost, but defeatism persisted in the administrations of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

American isolationism and defeatism are two faces of the same coin.

In the aftermath of WW I, American isolationism was promoted by Republicans and the consequences were devastating. They learned, and then stood firm in containing Soviet communism.

Defeatism is purposefully stoking doubts about America's capacity and resolve to defeat the enemy when engaged in war. This is what Kerry has been doing -- demagogically magnifying difficulties in Iraq to undermine U.S. resolve to help secure Iraq's future and crush its enemies, who are also enemies of freedom, decency and civilization in the post-Cold War world.

The 2004 election is taking place in the midst of a global war against Islamist terrorism.

Sixty years ago, another presidential election took place with America at war. In 1944, the Republican candidate was Thomas Dewey, governor of New York, going against President Franklin Roosevelt seeking an historic fourth term.

It would have been a monstrosity for Dewey to imagine campaigning for the presidency by blaming Roosevelt for Allied losses.

But this is the shame of Kerry's campaign in 2004 -- his defeatism feeds the delusions of Muslim fascists.

Kerry scorns the courage of Iraqis and their interim leader Ayad Allawi as they fight the dregs of the Arab-Muslim world in their country. Displaying pettiness, he characterizes support for freedom's struggle as depriving Americans of resources domestically.

His thinking and political career remain inseparably connected with Vietnam.

Defeatism in Vietnam resulted in appalling tragedy for millions in the region. Defeatism now will mean Vietnam revisited on Iraq and the Middle East.

Hence Kerry's defeat has become, ironically, essential for America to decisively turn the page on its Vietnam experience, which has stained the nation's politics over the past three decades.

sq764
10-06-2004, 12:17 PM
Excellent post.. Don't hold your breath on a response from LJB or Sec, they still are convinced the world wants Kerry..

(Well, they are partially right, the terrorists want him)

Steve 'StatMan'
10-06-2004, 12:26 PM
And the French - whom the U.S and other allies joined in fighting the Communist rebels in France's one-time colony of Vietnam.

Politely correct me if I am wrong.

hcap
10-06-2004, 12:38 PM
Ok maybe ljb or sec are too busy dealing with other myths, let me deflate this one.

Give me a break.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1079323590730_54/?hub=Canada

"Prime Minster Paul Martin said Sunday Canada will maintain a heightened vigilance in view of the terrorist bombings in Spain. He also reiterated his support of Canada's decision not to send troops to Iraq, a view shared by 74 per cent of Canadians in a new CTV/Globe and Mail/Ipsos Reid poll."

Other findings of the poll:

* 67 per cent agree that U.S. President George Bush knowingly lied to the world in order to justify his war with Iraq.

You guys snort, guffaw, and chortle, and slap each other on the back sorta of like Walt Disney's GOOFY, ( ahHAW, ahHaw) ,and call us the three stooges, but you're short on facts. As usual. Kinda like these guys.

sq764
10-06-2004, 12:42 PM
Hcap, maybe I missed the part in your post that addressed Canada supporting Kerry over Bush.. Can you reprint that part for lil old me please?

hcap
10-06-2004, 01:22 PM
Sq, you should really learn to google. Not everythong on the net is absolute truth, but usually there is enough out there to break parochial views. However Lemmings may or not be open to new information. Depends on how much faux news you watch.

:p :p


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/10/03/654640-cp.html

Poll: Cdns like Kerry over Bush. October 3, 2004

"MONTREAL (CP) - The results are enough to make John Kerry wish Canadians could vote in the U.S. presidential election.

A Leger Marketing poll conducted Sept. 21-26 indicates 56 per cent of Canadians supported the Democratic candidate, compared with 19 per cent who backed President George W. Bush. "

sq764
10-06-2004, 01:36 PM
"The remaining 25 per cent refused to answer or said they didn't know. "

"The poll also suggested 52 per cent of Canadians were very or somewhat interested in the U.S. election, compared with 47 per cent who expressed little or no interest. "


So... 25% refused to answer and another 48% of the country has no idea or care about the election..


You know how to lighten things up my man, I will give you that.. Could ya give me something with substance??

hcap
10-06-2004, 02:07 PM
You gotta be kidding. Talk about fuzzy math. Even if you added the 25% refused to answer + 19 per cent who backed President George W. Bush, you still get 44%. And we know the 25% refused to answer are not going to vote 100% for bush. Under the most reasonable optimistic outcome, the 25% will split 50/50. So in reality we are at

+56 per cent of Canadians support Kerry
+12.5

=68.5% for Kerry

vs

+19 per cent who backed President George W. Bush
+12.5

=31.5% for dubya.

The other 47 per cent who expressed little or no interest, approx is the percentage of Americans who don't vote at all.

this is year 2000

http://www.yvoteonline.org/noshows2000_st_value.shtml

"Medill News Service survey suggests. More than 100 million Americans, or about 49 percent of the voting-age population, stayed away from the polls last November.

Although the turnout should be far greater than in 2000

sq764
10-06-2004, 03:21 PM
56% of 75% of 52%...

So you've confirmed that 21% of the people that give a crap about the American election in the country are for Kerry..

Kudos!!

Steve 'StatMan'
10-06-2004, 03:22 PM
Ah, the power of Googling!

JustRalph
10-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
Ah, the power of Googling!


wouldn't be great to own a company that has become a "Verb"

hcap
10-06-2004, 04:17 PM
should be 56% of 53%
Or 30% for Kerry
vs
19% of 53%
Or 10% for bush

Those numbers are out of a pool of 53% of the population.
If 53% of all voters vote in the US, and it's a dead heat like 2000, Kerry will get 26.5% and so will bush.
Therefore in this country, if 2000 repeats, only around 1/4 of the population gives a "crap"about their candidate.

"If god wanted us to vote he would have given us candidates"--Jim Hightower

sq764
10-06-2004, 04:25 PM
so you have 'concretely' confirmed that 30% of the total Canadians (that was polled) back Kerry..

Wow, that's definitely some solid work Hcap...

Treat yourself to a doughnut and a Labatts for your efforts..

hcap
10-06-2004, 04:43 PM
Concretely?
Concrete may describe your thinking on this issue.

Maybe the majority of canadians don't like, and think flightsuitboy fibbed. Maybe, maybe not. But they did not sign up for The War PREZNITs' Iraq fiasco

Must be the clean cool air up there

sq764
10-06-2004, 05:22 PM
Or maybe it's the French population up there that admires the pu$$y candidate that reminds them of their own leader..

Equineer
10-06-2004, 07:03 PM
The Toronto Star can hardly be accused of biased reporting by liberals. Like many foreign papers, the Star will break news stories without regard to their editorial posture.

See: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1068937808710&call_pageid=968332188854

When they first broke the story, the Star reported interviewing an Iraqi medical team that was turned back by U.S. gunfire when they tried to return Jessica to U.S. troops the night before the famous raid.The Star reports the three Nasiriya doctors, two nurses, one hospital administrator and local residents also ridiculed the U.S. military for its clandestine, midnight raid of the hospital to rescue Lynch. They claim Iraqi soldiers and commanders left the hospital two days earlier.

"The night they left, a few of the senior medical staff tried to give Jessica back," said Houssona. "We carefully moved her out of intensive care and into an ambulance and began to drive to the Americans, who were just one kilometer away. But when the ambulance got within 300 meters, they began to shoot. There wasn't even a chance to tell them 'We have Jessica. Take her.'"

CryingForTheHorses
10-06-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by sq764
Hcap, maybe I missed the part in your post that addressed Canada supporting Kerry over Bush.. Can you reprint that part for lil old me please?

Please let me explain.A real canadian would support this war:
Pleas blame the french for the Canadian lack of enthusiasm in this war, Good old boys from Nashville Ont love to kick ass

CryingForTheHorses
10-06-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by hcap
Sq, you should really learn to google. Not everythong on the net is absolute truth, but usually there is enough out there to break parochial views. However Lemmings may or not be open to new information. Depends on how much faux news you watch.

:p :p


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/10/03/654640-cp.html

Poll: Cdns like Kerry over Bush. October 3, 2004

"MONTREAL (CP) - The results are enough to make John Kerry wish Canadians could vote in the U.S. presidential election.

A Leger Marketing poll conducted Sept. 21-26 indicates 56 per cent of Canadians supported the Democratic candidate, compared with 19 per cent who backed President George W. Bush. "

LMAO..se my other post....Look at where it was written...MONTREAL////FRENCH

Steve 'StatMan'
10-06-2004, 07:46 PM
Heck, its been difficult at times for the folks in Quebec (the provice Montreal is in) to stay a part of Canada. They speak French and many want to separate from Canada.

Let's split the difference and presume that Kerry would likely win Quebec.

Tom
10-06-2004, 08:15 PM
So Hcap....let me get this straight. Are you calling Dick a liar?:confused:

hcap
10-07-2004, 11:13 AM
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/.../654640-cp.html

"Other regional breakdowns, with Kerry's numbers first and Bush's second, were: British Columbia, 58-19; Ontario, 53-19; the Atlantic provinces, 49-28; Alberta, 45-27; and Manitoba and Saskatchewan, 43-30.

So Kerry is only liked by Quebec?
I know written in Montreal. However there is more circumstanstial evidence

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3640754.stm

"World 'wants Kerry as president'
Kerry scored best with traditional US allies
A new poll in 35 countries suggests that people around the world would prefer Democratic challenger John Kerry as US president over George W Bush.

Global research company GlobeScan Inc and the University of Maryland found clear leads for Mr Kerry among those polled in 30 of the countries.

Only Filipino, Polish and Nigerian respondents clearly backed Mr Bush.

Most said Mr Bush's foreign policy had made them feel worse about the US since his election in 2000.


Results

POLL RESULTS (KERRY-BUSH)
Norway: 74%-7%
Germany: 74%-10%
France: 64%-5%
Italy: 58%-14%
Spain: 45%-7%
UK: 47%-16%
Canada: 61%-16%
Mexico: 38%-18%
Brazil: 57%-14%
China: 52%-12%
Japan: 43%-32%
Indonesia: 57%-34%
India: 34%-33%
Philippines: 32%-57%
Nigeria: 33%-27%
Poland: 26%-31%
Thailand: 30%-33%
Source: GlobeScan Inc/University of Maryland PIPA


The Emperor Has No Clothes, as we found out last week.

sq764
10-07-2004, 11:15 AM
Damnit, and all this time I thought Bush would carry Nigeria... Oh well..

bettheoverlay
10-07-2004, 11:28 AM
I don't think there is much question that Bush is the most despised American president worldwide (including our Allies who sent troops) in my lifetime. Of course that is probably a point in his favor for Bush idolaters.

Sometimes I get the impression that the idolaters would just as soon nuke the rest of the world that is just too disagreeable. And then we Americans would finally be safe, and alone, and dodging the fallout

hcap
10-07-2004, 01:09 PM
bet,

I've mentioned to Tom many times that we have tons of megatonage left over from the cold war. More than enough to eradicate all towlheads, and any other evildoer that crosses the line.

Hey sq, we can nuke nigeria too!

Tom
10-07-2004, 06:53 PM
Sounds good to me!

hcap
10-07-2004, 07:09 PM
Tom, I have seen you post that photo before. Don't recognize who it is. Or it is an ad for one of kool-aids competors-like hawaiian punch, or gatorade?
Almost looks like Pat Buchanan, who JR suspects may be my secret identity.

Please enlighten.

btw, would you consider nuking Nigeria 'cause their 6 point preference for Kerry? Or does it gotta be really embarrasing for the preznit, like say 70% Kerry-30% bush?

:eek: :eek:

sq764
10-07-2004, 07:27 PM
why would it be embarrasing for the president to be out of favor in Nigeria? Not sure of your what you are getting at..

Tom
10-08-2004, 12:23 AM
As a rule, I don't use Nigeria as a benchmark for anything.
Now I would worry if they were in favor of Bush. When POS little countries hate you, you know you are doing the right thing.:D
\


JR made a reference to Ljb about being a kool aid drinker - Jim Jones folower metality. I happened on this phote right after reading it and thought it would be a perfect reply to you guys...like JJ said, shuddap and drink the kool aid! ;)