Pitchers Today Versus the 60's

[sq764]

The differences in pitchers today versus 40 years ago..


NY Post compared Santana’s season this year with Koufax in 1963..

Record - Koufax – 25-5, Santana 20-6

ERA – Koufax – 1.88, Santana – 2.61

Starts – K – 40, S – 34

Fairly even so far, but one little difference..

Complete games – Santana – 1, Koufax – 20!!!

[chickenhead]

don't you think most of that difference is due to the managers rather than the pitchers?

[Valuist]

Lets not forget the mound was lowered after the 1968 season, in which Gibson had an insane ERA. I think Chickenhead is also right. In the past 20 years, its rare to see a starter go into the 8th inning. And the thought that the closer must come into the game at the start of the 9th is ridiculous. If I were managing and my starter was in a game-breaking jam, say ahead 3-2 with the bases loaded and one out in the 7th, I say bring your closer in at that point. Thats the real jam; not pitching with a 2 run lead and nobody on base.

[sq764]

I think some of it can be contributed to the role of the long reliever and the closer.. They weren't really popular back then.

But I also believe that pitchers didn't have multi year contracts and had to prove themselves year after year.

[chickenhead]

on the topic of bullpen misuse......the Giants should have brought in Schmidt in the game against LA once it got to be 3-1 with bases loaded in the 9th...all you Cub fans out there, I feel for you...being a Giants fan is no picnic either....it's been 50 years since we won the whole thing...

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by chickenhead
on the topic of bullpen misuse......the Giants should have brought in Schmidt in the game against LA once it got to be 3-1 with bases loaded in the 9th...all you Cub fans out there, I feel for you...being a Giants fan is no picnic either....it's been 50 years since we won the whole thing...

Hey, I'm not worried about the Cubs. Any team can have a bad century!;)

[kenwoodallpromos]

Walks per inning or ratio to k's would be good to compare because control would not change much.

[Valuist]

Chickenhead-

What did you think about Dusty? I know the players love him (except for Sosa) but some of his decision making has us scratching our heads. Especially how he handles a pitching staff.

[BIG RED]

Let's go RED SOX. Watch out for Pedro tommorrow night. Loves the warm weather and I think he's been playing head games. Hopefully Shilling does well today. Should start out 2-0, and we'll need it!

GO SOX

[sq764]

let's worry about 1-0 first.. Just want Schilling to throw a gem, that's all..

[chickenhead]

Dusty had the same effect on all us Giants fans...alternately scratching our heads or screaming at the television set.

I don't know how much Dusty's intangibles are worth...we did have good success with him when you take into account our talent level, so it obviously counts for something, but his teams just don't seem to do the smart thing very often...don't know how he is handling the Cubs offense, but with the Giants he never seemed to want to play small ball, which drove me crazy.

I never had too many complaints about how he handled the staff...his last few years our pen was fairly strong (Worrell, Nen, etc.) and our starters fairly weak (Hernandez, Reuter, etc) ...so yanking them was usually a good thing, unless F-Rod (a fitting nickname) was brought in.

The biggest handicap we seemed to have his last few years was just a horrendous bench...the talent level was so low it is hard to know how much that limited his options...

[sq764]

I think Dusty stinks, period..

Iwouldn't be shocked to see him let go

[betchatoo]

The Cubs have had their first back to back winning seasons in more than 30 years. You can bet Dusty isn't going anywhere for a while

[sq764]

Barely.. they were 88-74 in 2001 then 81-81 in 2002..

He's not making much improvement on a team that is supposedly very good.

Look at Bowa, Phillies ended up 86-76 and he gets canned. Cubs had higher expectations than the Phillies based on their pitching staff alone.

[betchatoo]

Having brought the team to within 5 outs of the pennant last year made him a big hero in Chicago. In this town heros fade slowly. He's got another year or two grace period

[BIG RED]

Originally posted by sq764
let's worry about 1-0 first.. Just want Schilling to throw a gem, that's all..

Looking good so far....

[delayjf]

Keep in mind also that in the Sixties you had fewer teams hense, fewer total pitchers in the league which would equate to a higher overall talent level.

[BIG RED]

Originally posted by BIG RED
Let's go RED SOX. Watch out for Pedro tommorrow night. Loves the warm weather and I think he's been playing head games. Hopefully Shilling does well today. Should start out 2-0, and we'll need it!

GO SOX

2 for 2 sq. Nice day out. Maybe 3?? Have to go watch right now.

[sq764]

lets take one at a time :-)

[BIG RED]

See why I don't bet baseball. 3 for 3. SEE

[sq764]

That was a great game.. Shouldn't have had to end that way, but win is a win..

Nice to see Sox will get some rest and will be fresh next week..

[BIG RED]

ABSOLUTELYTIVILY